Maxim Berezovsky is currently a Music good article nominee. Nominated by Amitchell125 ( talk) at 14:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC) Anyone who has not contributed significantly to (or nominated) this article may review it according to the good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a good article. To start the review process, click start review and save the page. (See here for the good article instructions.) Short description: Composer |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maxim Berezovsky article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
An image used in this article,
File:Berezovskiy.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 9 March 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Berezovskiy.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 21:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
How could he have been a Ukrainian composer if there was no Ukraine, he was a Russian subject, lived in St. Petersburg, wrote in Russian and spoke Russian? For all other countries the citizenship determines the identity, why should here be a postfactum invented ethnicity? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
95.55.162.168 (
talk) 17:53, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Maksym Berezovsky. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:47, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
Could we have please more arguments that Berezovski is the most common spelling than just one source? WP:RUS would give Berezovsky, and if we have decided not to follow it, we must have good arguments that Berezovski is way more common than Berezovsky in modern reliable sources.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 14:10, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
We already had one user who was indefinitely blocked for persistent addition of claim that Berezovsky was an Ukrainian composer, without reliable sources. Now we have a brand new user adding the same claim, again without sources, and edit-warring. I am afraid one more revert and we go off to arbitration enforcement again.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 22:36, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
“Claim” is a loaded word for the only theory presented. Are there any hypotheses or claims he was born in Russia? — Michael Z. 23:56, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
User:Ушкуйник, Please participate in the discussion instead of reverting to an article intro that ignores its own sources by including patent nonsense. We’ve been through this before, and refusing to discuss has only wasted your time and a lot of everyone else’s. — Michael Z. 16:45, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Per A Short History of Opera by Donald Grout, "Some of the Ukraine's earliest operatic composers were Maxim Berezovsky .. and Dmitri Bortnyansky...Although their models were Italian opera, they were nevertheless able to introduce aspects of their native culture into the scores..." Bach is a "German" composer even though modern Germany didn't exist in his day, says Gerda Arendt. The arcana about little Russia and Russia's past and present claims that Ukraine is part of Russia shouldn't erase Ukraine from his biography when many RS attest it. Update, "Russian and Ukrainian" looks like a good solution, thanks Jingiby. HouseOfChange ( talk) 14:35, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Dear Yezheha, I would kindly ask you to stop changing the title of the article. The current transliteration is based on encyclopedias and studies by specialists in musicology (e.g. Marina Ritzarev) written in English. Ушкуйник ( talk) 17:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
The references are not consistently formatted at present, but I want to use the Harvard system when working on the article, which I intend to raise to GA level. Please comment if you have any objection. Amitchell125 ( talk) 10:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ CurryTime7-24 why did you revert [1] the correct spelling of Hlukhiv? There’s no reason to use the Russian exonym for a city in Ukraine. — Michael Z. 00:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
3O Response: This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Third opinion and I am commenting in response to that request. I have never edited this article before and am commenting as a third-party, though the last few comments do give the impression that the need for a third-party is almost pro forma at this point as the dispute seems more or less resolved. However looking through the discussion I do concer with Michael Z's assessment of the relevant MoS and naming conventions here. Unless the Russian name is the common name for the city that is used in English, it is generally best to use the name that is used in modern English, barring the exceptions alluded to, which do not seem to be met in this case (though I'm going off the talk page and a look through the article for that assessment). However the only thing I would note when looking through the article is that Glukhov is mentioned in Maxim Berezovsky#Italian period but more importantly also in an image of a map; I think with the map some contextualization either in the prose or the caption might help explain the connection between Hlukhiv in the prose and Glukhov in the accompanying map, because without the understanding that those are the same place, the map being there seems almost unrelated. - Aoidh ( talk) 02:25, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Maxim Berezovsky is currently a Music good article nominee. Nominated by Amitchell125 ( talk) at 14:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC) Anyone who has not contributed significantly to (or nominated) this article may review it according to the good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a good article. To start the review process, click start review and save the page. (See here for the good article instructions.) Short description: Composer |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maxim Berezovsky article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
An image used in this article,
File:Berezovskiy.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 9 March 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Berezovskiy.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 21:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
How could he have been a Ukrainian composer if there was no Ukraine, he was a Russian subject, lived in St. Petersburg, wrote in Russian and spoke Russian? For all other countries the citizenship determines the identity, why should here be a postfactum invented ethnicity? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
95.55.162.168 (
talk) 17:53, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Maksym Berezovsky. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:47, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
Could we have please more arguments that Berezovski is the most common spelling than just one source? WP:RUS would give Berezovsky, and if we have decided not to follow it, we must have good arguments that Berezovski is way more common than Berezovsky in modern reliable sources.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 14:10, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
We already had one user who was indefinitely blocked for persistent addition of claim that Berezovsky was an Ukrainian composer, without reliable sources. Now we have a brand new user adding the same claim, again without sources, and edit-warring. I am afraid one more revert and we go off to arbitration enforcement again.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 22:36, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
“Claim” is a loaded word for the only theory presented. Are there any hypotheses or claims he was born in Russia? — Michael Z. 23:56, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
User:Ушкуйник, Please participate in the discussion instead of reverting to an article intro that ignores its own sources by including patent nonsense. We’ve been through this before, and refusing to discuss has only wasted your time and a lot of everyone else’s. — Michael Z. 16:45, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Per A Short History of Opera by Donald Grout, "Some of the Ukraine's earliest operatic composers were Maxim Berezovsky .. and Dmitri Bortnyansky...Although their models were Italian opera, they were nevertheless able to introduce aspects of their native culture into the scores..." Bach is a "German" composer even though modern Germany didn't exist in his day, says Gerda Arendt. The arcana about little Russia and Russia's past and present claims that Ukraine is part of Russia shouldn't erase Ukraine from his biography when many RS attest it. Update, "Russian and Ukrainian" looks like a good solution, thanks Jingiby. HouseOfChange ( talk) 14:35, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Dear Yezheha, I would kindly ask you to stop changing the title of the article. The current transliteration is based on encyclopedias and studies by specialists in musicology (e.g. Marina Ritzarev) written in English. Ушкуйник ( talk) 17:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
The references are not consistently formatted at present, but I want to use the Harvard system when working on the article, which I intend to raise to GA level. Please comment if you have any objection. Amitchell125 ( talk) 10:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ CurryTime7-24 why did you revert [1] the correct spelling of Hlukhiv? There’s no reason to use the Russian exonym for a city in Ukraine. — Michael Z. 00:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
3O Response: This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Third opinion and I am commenting in response to that request. I have never edited this article before and am commenting as a third-party, though the last few comments do give the impression that the need for a third-party is almost pro forma at this point as the dispute seems more or less resolved. However looking through the discussion I do concer with Michael Z's assessment of the relevant MoS and naming conventions here. Unless the Russian name is the common name for the city that is used in English, it is generally best to use the name that is used in modern English, barring the exceptions alluded to, which do not seem to be met in this case (though I'm going off the talk page and a look through the article for that assessment). However the only thing I would note when looking through the article is that Glukhov is mentioned in Maxim Berezovsky#Italian period but more importantly also in an image of a map; I think with the map some contextualization either in the prose or the caption might help explain the connection between Hlukhiv in the prose and Glukhov in the accompanying map, because without the understanding that those are the same place, the map being there seems almost unrelated. - Aoidh ( talk) 02:25, 22 October 2023 (UTC)