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This is the talk page for discussing changes to the Maryland article itself. Off-topic discussion of whether Maryland is a Northern state, Southern state, etc., or of similar issues, may be removed without comment. Past discussions of these topics are archived at Talk:Maryland/North (Mid-Atlantic State) vs South (Southern State). |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Maralind. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 22:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I changed the word “Popishness” in the lead to “Catholicism” because 1) no one uses that word anymore and just saying Catholicism is clearer and 2) it’s a slur.
It’s been reverted as “not an improvement.” If someone would find a better word than “Catholicism” I’d be fine with it, but certainly just about anything is better than having an archaic slur in the lead of an article on a US state. TonyBallioni ( talk) 12:41, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Tedickey, TonyBallioni, and Nblund:, is it OK now? Notrium ( talk) 17:47, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
It is unreasonable to keep reverting 'Southeastern' as a description of Maryland.
The 'Mason-Dixon Line' is not 'imaginary'. It is an opinion that it has been 'politically irrelevant since the Civil War'. (It also happens to be demonstrably untrue if you look at presidential election maps, as Prof. Frederic Paxson pointed out [1].) 'Many sources list' doesn't matter. The US Census Bureau is the source for most states' regional designations. That the Census Bureau is 'archaic' is, again, an opinion. If it is archaic, why is it used to support most states' regional designations?
The CB excludes Maryland from the Mid-Atlantic; it also excludes Virginia from the Mid-Atlantic, and yet Virginia is listed as *both* a Mid-Atlantic and Southeastern state. It is possible for a state to be in multiple regions.
Every edit is of necessity unilateral. I do not see any consensus on the topic, and the status quo is not any reason for keeping anything.
Maryland was founded, very much like Virginia, as an English planter colony. There are reasonable, objective reasons regarding Delaware and Missouri (although I do not happen to agree). Delaware was part of Pennsylvania, and the reason it exists is because of Pennsylvania. Missouri was the result of a compromise. None of these things is true of Maryland.
Maryland's recent former state song is not the state song of a non-Southern state. The flag of Maryland consciously includes elements designed to reconcile pro-unionist and pro-Confederate Marylanders. There were a number of Maryland Confederate regiments (which is not the case of Delaware).
On election night 1988, Tom Brokaw referred to Maryland as a 'border state' (a way that many other non-Confederate states described as Southeastern or South Central are described). This was just 33 years ago. Even more recently, former Maryland Governor Parris Glendening was Chair of the Southern States Energy Board from 1995 to 2003. [2] He was also in the executive committee of the now-defunct Southern Governors' Association. I have found documentation of Maryland belonging to the SGA as recently as 2004. [3]
As recently as 2001, Maryland's state Senate president was elected chairman of the Southern Legislative Conference. [4] I am aware that Maryland is no longer in said conference. But regional designations do not shift with changing demographics. Or, if they do, why aren't Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut no longer considered New England? Why isn't Colorado no longer considered a Mountain West state? For that matter, why is Florida considered a Southern state? My guess is it's because there's no other region in which to put Florida.
Notice the article says that MD is 'relatively progressive' within the South. That could now describe Virginia. 'Many people' are coming to be of the opinion that Virginia is no longer Southern. [5] Will Virginia be removed from 'the South' at some point? Either it will, which is patently absurd, or it won't, which is hypocritical--the only reason it won't is because most people editing these articles will have a living memory of when Virginia was considered straightforwardly Southern, unlike with Maryland.
People seem to be of the opinion that Maryland is not Southern because it is heavily urban, liberal, or whatever, none of which is has anything to do with whether a state is Southern or not. 'Southern' does not mean 'country'. In the antebellum period, New Orleans was one of the country's largest cities. Today, Miami and Atlanta should disqualify their states from the South, by that token. If it's about politics, again, Colorado is no longer a Mountain West state. I don't know what it is, but it's not that.
Toadmore ( talk) 08:37, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
I propose to add an edit notice to the article, with text taken from the lead invisible HTML comment. Please discuss at Template_talk:Editnotices/Page/Maryland#Template-protected_edit_request_on_1_December_2021 if you disagree.
If you think this notification should go to the south/north subpage, feel free to move it (I reasoned that I am not suggesting a change to the south/north text and therefore it falls under general administration of the page, but I could see an argument the other way). Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 11:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
The Koppen Climate rating for Maryland is completely inaccurate (for "Winter climate"). It is inaccurate for the following regions: Central Maryland, Southern Maryland, and the Eastern Shore of Maryland. This misinformation is posted on (maybe) over a hundred Maryland-related Wikipedia articles.
The Koppen Climate survey claims that Maryland winters are "mild to cool". False. A large percentage of winter days in Maryland are quite cold. A large percentage are also "cool". Only a small percentage are "mild".
A superior substitute for the incorrect Koppen Climate classification for Maryland must be found. The KCC should be removed from every single Maryland-related Wikipedia article.
Chesapeake77 ( talk) 19:54, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Under the largest city listing, the listed location is "Hong Kong." While this may be a misdirect, there is to my knowledge no Hong Kong in the state of Maryland, and if there is I doubt it is the largest or most populated city within the state. 2600:4040:B03A:BB00:288F:B6DB:F777:49A4 ( talk) 17:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello Magnolia, there is no reference corroborating the claim Maryland has a close relationship with Victoria, Australia. Albeit we acknowledge that factors and connections exist, I have been unable to find any evidence of said relationship, particularly not any that would merit being listed as one of the few ‘friendship partners’. Please Explain. 120.21.38.160 ( talk) 14:02, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
The history omitts the William Claiborne's settlement founded in 1631 on Kent Island and implies that St Mary's City was the first settlement, which is not accurate. 38.124.144.75 ( talk) 21:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maryland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
This is the talk page for discussing changes to the Maryland article itself. Off-topic discussion of whether Maryland is a Northern state, Southern state, etc., or of similar issues, may be removed without comment. Past discussions of these topics are archived at Talk:Maryland/North (Mid-Atlantic State) vs South (Southern State). |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 25, 2005. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Maralind. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 22:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I changed the word “Popishness” in the lead to “Catholicism” because 1) no one uses that word anymore and just saying Catholicism is clearer and 2) it’s a slur.
It’s been reverted as “not an improvement.” If someone would find a better word than “Catholicism” I’d be fine with it, but certainly just about anything is better than having an archaic slur in the lead of an article on a US state. TonyBallioni ( talk) 12:41, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Tedickey, TonyBallioni, and Nblund:, is it OK now? Notrium ( talk) 17:47, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
It is unreasonable to keep reverting 'Southeastern' as a description of Maryland.
The 'Mason-Dixon Line' is not 'imaginary'. It is an opinion that it has been 'politically irrelevant since the Civil War'. (It also happens to be demonstrably untrue if you look at presidential election maps, as Prof. Frederic Paxson pointed out [1].) 'Many sources list' doesn't matter. The US Census Bureau is the source for most states' regional designations. That the Census Bureau is 'archaic' is, again, an opinion. If it is archaic, why is it used to support most states' regional designations?
The CB excludes Maryland from the Mid-Atlantic; it also excludes Virginia from the Mid-Atlantic, and yet Virginia is listed as *both* a Mid-Atlantic and Southeastern state. It is possible for a state to be in multiple regions.
Every edit is of necessity unilateral. I do not see any consensus on the topic, and the status quo is not any reason for keeping anything.
Maryland was founded, very much like Virginia, as an English planter colony. There are reasonable, objective reasons regarding Delaware and Missouri (although I do not happen to agree). Delaware was part of Pennsylvania, and the reason it exists is because of Pennsylvania. Missouri was the result of a compromise. None of these things is true of Maryland.
Maryland's recent former state song is not the state song of a non-Southern state. The flag of Maryland consciously includes elements designed to reconcile pro-unionist and pro-Confederate Marylanders. There were a number of Maryland Confederate regiments (which is not the case of Delaware).
On election night 1988, Tom Brokaw referred to Maryland as a 'border state' (a way that many other non-Confederate states described as Southeastern or South Central are described). This was just 33 years ago. Even more recently, former Maryland Governor Parris Glendening was Chair of the Southern States Energy Board from 1995 to 2003. [2] He was also in the executive committee of the now-defunct Southern Governors' Association. I have found documentation of Maryland belonging to the SGA as recently as 2004. [3]
As recently as 2001, Maryland's state Senate president was elected chairman of the Southern Legislative Conference. [4] I am aware that Maryland is no longer in said conference. But regional designations do not shift with changing demographics. Or, if they do, why aren't Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut no longer considered New England? Why isn't Colorado no longer considered a Mountain West state? For that matter, why is Florida considered a Southern state? My guess is it's because there's no other region in which to put Florida.
Notice the article says that MD is 'relatively progressive' within the South. That could now describe Virginia. 'Many people' are coming to be of the opinion that Virginia is no longer Southern. [5] Will Virginia be removed from 'the South' at some point? Either it will, which is patently absurd, or it won't, which is hypocritical--the only reason it won't is because most people editing these articles will have a living memory of when Virginia was considered straightforwardly Southern, unlike with Maryland.
People seem to be of the opinion that Maryland is not Southern because it is heavily urban, liberal, or whatever, none of which is has anything to do with whether a state is Southern or not. 'Southern' does not mean 'country'. In the antebellum period, New Orleans was one of the country's largest cities. Today, Miami and Atlanta should disqualify their states from the South, by that token. If it's about politics, again, Colorado is no longer a Mountain West state. I don't know what it is, but it's not that.
Toadmore ( talk) 08:37, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
I propose to add an edit notice to the article, with text taken from the lead invisible HTML comment. Please discuss at Template_talk:Editnotices/Page/Maryland#Template-protected_edit_request_on_1_December_2021 if you disagree.
If you think this notification should go to the south/north subpage, feel free to move it (I reasoned that I am not suggesting a change to the south/north text and therefore it falls under general administration of the page, but I could see an argument the other way). Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 11:08, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
The Koppen Climate rating for Maryland is completely inaccurate (for "Winter climate"). It is inaccurate for the following regions: Central Maryland, Southern Maryland, and the Eastern Shore of Maryland. This misinformation is posted on (maybe) over a hundred Maryland-related Wikipedia articles.
The Koppen Climate survey claims that Maryland winters are "mild to cool". False. A large percentage of winter days in Maryland are quite cold. A large percentage are also "cool". Only a small percentage are "mild".
A superior substitute for the incorrect Koppen Climate classification for Maryland must be found. The KCC should be removed from every single Maryland-related Wikipedia article.
Chesapeake77 ( talk) 19:54, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Under the largest city listing, the listed location is "Hong Kong." While this may be a misdirect, there is to my knowledge no Hong Kong in the state of Maryland, and if there is I doubt it is the largest or most populated city within the state. 2600:4040:B03A:BB00:288F:B6DB:F777:49A4 ( talk) 17:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello Magnolia, there is no reference corroborating the claim Maryland has a close relationship with Victoria, Australia. Albeit we acknowledge that factors and connections exist, I have been unable to find any evidence of said relationship, particularly not any that would merit being listed as one of the few ‘friendship partners’. Please Explain. 120.21.38.160 ( talk) 14:02, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
The history omitts the William Claiborne's settlement founded in 1631 on Kent Island and implies that St Mary's City was the first settlement, which is not accurate. 38.124.144.75 ( talk) 21:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)