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It is written in the article, that "Martha is now no longer on public display". What about this photo? It's written there that the photo was made in December, 2008.
Is it a photo of Martha or not? Krasss ( talk) 14:12, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Martha will be going back on display, at the Smithsonian, pretty soon: http://www.si.edu/Exhibitions/Details/Once-There-Were-Billions-Vanished-Birds-of-North-America-5126 I'd edit the article but it might be seen as a conflict of interest. Drastician ( talk) 22:29, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Just uploaded this! Sarah ( talk) 00:40, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
The cited Whitman book in Passenger Pigeon claims 1902 sent by Whitman. Shufeldt claims last of flock of 8 obtained 1878, and also born in captivity. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 20:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Do you think that general details about her appearance and how she would have been raised should be included in the article? There aren't citations for her specifically, but they are present in the Passenger Pigeon article. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 20:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved with rough consensus ( non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk) 17:23, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Martha (pigeon) → Martha (passenger pigeon) – Page was originally moved to the current name to conform to other individual pigeon articles, however those articles refer to domestic pigeons whereas Martha was a passenger pigeon (a distinct species). The current disambiguator is therefore misleading. Lost on Belmont 3200N1000W ( talk) 18:53, 22 October 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Andrewa ( talk) 20:58, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
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The date on which Martha died, September 1, 1914, is often quoted by science educators as an example where we can actually put a date to an extinction event. Imagine that! However, this is not correct. A sexual species is lost somewhat prior to the death of the ending (= the last remaining individual). It is the last moment in time when two fertile individuals of opposite sexes are still extant; the total number of individuals at that moment in time can be greater than 2, and there can even be any number of (same-sex!) individuals alive after this point of no return. The present article does not repeat this mistake, and duly documents the search for a male mate (since we now know that the ending of the Passenger Pigeon was a female, the point of no return must have coincided with the death of a male, at an unknown but prior point in time). It would be good to point this out, since wikipedia is where many educators come for their basic information. In this discusion, I have used the term point of no return, but of course it might be possible to salvage the DNA. In birds, males are the homogametic sex (ZZ), while females are the heterogametic sex (ZW). This means that in principle, had we been able to salvage Martha's chromosomes, we would have been able to reconstitute female clones of Martha, plus males that would have been completely homozygous on all Z-loci. This would still have fallen short of salvaging the Passenger Pigeon, since any alleles that Martha did not happen to have would have been lost, and thereby the natural genetic variation that existed when there were still billions of Passenger Pigeons. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:2559:A72F:C266:3AA ( talk) 08:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Martha (passenger pigeon) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 1, 2021. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It is written in the article, that "Martha is now no longer on public display". What about this photo? It's written there that the photo was made in December, 2008.
Is it a photo of Martha or not? Krasss ( talk) 14:12, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Martha will be going back on display, at the Smithsonian, pretty soon: http://www.si.edu/Exhibitions/Details/Once-There-Were-Billions-Vanished-Birds-of-North-America-5126 I'd edit the article but it might be seen as a conflict of interest. Drastician ( talk) 22:29, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Just uploaded this! Sarah ( talk) 00:40, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
The cited Whitman book in Passenger Pigeon claims 1902 sent by Whitman. Shufeldt claims last of flock of 8 obtained 1878, and also born in captivity. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 20:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Do you think that general details about her appearance and how she would have been raised should be included in the article? There aren't citations for her specifically, but they are present in the Passenger Pigeon article. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 20:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved with rough consensus ( non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk) 17:23, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Martha (pigeon) → Martha (passenger pigeon) – Page was originally moved to the current name to conform to other individual pigeon articles, however those articles refer to domestic pigeons whereas Martha was a passenger pigeon (a distinct species). The current disambiguator is therefore misleading. Lost on Belmont 3200N1000W ( talk) 18:53, 22 October 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Andrewa ( talk) 20:58, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Martha (passenger pigeon). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
The date on which Martha died, September 1, 1914, is often quoted by science educators as an example where we can actually put a date to an extinction event. Imagine that! However, this is not correct. A sexual species is lost somewhat prior to the death of the ending (= the last remaining individual). It is the last moment in time when two fertile individuals of opposite sexes are still extant; the total number of individuals at that moment in time can be greater than 2, and there can even be any number of (same-sex!) individuals alive after this point of no return. The present article does not repeat this mistake, and duly documents the search for a male mate (since we now know that the ending of the Passenger Pigeon was a female, the point of no return must have coincided with the death of a male, at an unknown but prior point in time). It would be good to point this out, since wikipedia is where many educators come for their basic information. In this discusion, I have used the term point of no return, but of course it might be possible to salvage the DNA. In birds, males are the homogametic sex (ZZ), while females are the heterogametic sex (ZW). This means that in principle, had we been able to salvage Martha's chromosomes, we would have been able to reconstitute female clones of Martha, plus males that would have been completely homozygous on all Z-loci. This would still have fallen short of salvaging the Passenger Pigeon, since any alleles that Martha did not happen to have would have been lost, and thereby the natural genetic variation that existed when there were still billions of Passenger Pigeons. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:2559:A72F:C266:3AA ( talk) 08:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)