The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that according to Ramayana adaptations, Mandodari – the wife of the ten-headed demon
Ravana – was the mother of
Sita, whose kidnapping by Ravana would lead to his doom?
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Mandodari probably is from present day Mexico, being the daughter of Maya of the Mayan Kingdom? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
174.71.59.193 (
talk) 09:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)reply
Same English spelling, completely different pronunciation. That's a real stretch at best. --
Hnsampat (
talk) 13:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)reply
GA Review
This review is
transcluded from
Talk:Mandodari/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer:hamiltonstone (
talk) 07:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is a bit of a challenge. It does meet the GA criteria for at least three reasons:reply
It is not well-written, particularly in the sense that it does not make clear (and keep clear throughout) the status of its subject as a religious / mythological figure. The lead is ambiguous in other ways too. Take this initial phrase from the lead: "was the Queen Consort of Ravana, the ten-headed Rakshasa (demon) king of Lanka and the chief villain of the Hindu epic Ramayana." If Mandodari is a figure in a book / legend etc it should read "is", rather than "was" (which is a cue that encourages the reading that she was an actual historical figure). The phrase should also be reordered to make it unambiguously clear that it is Lanka who is the chief villain, not Mandodari: eg "is the Queen Consort of Ravana, the chief villain of the Hindu epic Ramayana."
I would also begin by being clearer about her status, by saying something like Mandodari is a figure in Hindu mythology, in which she is portrayed..." etc
The third paragraph of the lead appears to mix in one para some unrelated points - a mix of plot summary with comment on how she is portrayed ("Her love and loyalty to Ravana are praised.")
It is not reliable: specifically it makes considerable use of two items that appear to me to be unreliable sources in this context: an article from a popular Indian magazine, and an online article that reads very well, but there is no evidence (that I found - please correct me if I am wrong) of the website's reliability (Boloji Media). The article also uses Wheeler, a work that is 130 years old. These do not appear appropriate. In contrast Lutgendorf and Mukherjee look to be very sound sources.
Boloji Media is a blog like website. The author of the article -
Pradip Bhattacharya is an author of Hindu mythology books as well as one on the Panch Kanya, Mandodari being one of them. About the Wheeler part, it is a translation summary of the
Ramayana. I check tell about the credentials of the author of the Week article in an day or two. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 17:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for that. Couple of comments. First, I recommend you try and use Pradip's books if they are available. However, if they are not, please leave a note on the article talk page explaining who the author is and provide some citations for their books. This will allow both me and other future editors looking at this page to be assured that the source is reliable, based on the reputation of the particular author. Regarding Wheeler, is there not a more recent translaton available? If not, we will have to live with it.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
About Pradip, his relevant book Panchkanya: Women of Substance is unavailable to me. Another biography of Pradip about his works:
[1]. The Week article is written by Dhanalakshmi Ayyer, who the magazine notes, is an associate of the Chennai chapter of Observer Research Foundation. The article (part of [Mythological] "Women of substance" series) primarily focusses more on the interpretation of Mandodari in the contemporary world, rather than her mythology. Yes, Wheeler can be replaced although
Wheeler is quite well-known, particularly for this cited book. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 16:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
To this lay reader at least, it does not appear both broad and focussed. The article appears overwhelmingly dominated by what, in the case of a work of fiction, would be called "plot summary" - most noticeable in the section "Marriage and later life". There needs to be les of this and more analysis. The article also needs more reliable sourcing to back this.
Since she is primarily a character of
Hindu mythology (Hindus consider a historical character who lived and died), the article focusses on her life story. Though she is extolled in a prayer, she is minor character in the Ramayana and there is not much analysis of the character as compared to others like
Rama or
Ravana. Also, legends are very important in Hindu mythology related articles. Some similar GAs about minor characters in epics:
Ila (Hinduism) and
Kabandha.
I just had a look at Kabandha. I think that article is better than this one, and it is a good model to follow. It certainly shows you have the skills to bring this to GA. It looks like DBaba did a good job with some additional copyediting.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
DBaba has started copyediting the article. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 16:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
I'll leave this for any responses before I fail the article, but that is my initial view. Regards,
hamiltonstone (
talk) 07:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the review. I am currently busy and will be able to fully concentrate on this GAN after Wednesday. I have also requested a copyedit. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 17:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
I am in no hurry. I will wait and see how things go.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Can you explain the meaning of "got" in this sentence: "According to the Ananda Ramayana, king Padmaksha got Padma, an incarnate of the goddess Lakshmi, as his daughter."?
hamiltonstone (
talk) 03:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks, but I'm afraid that doesn't help! Give me some background here on the talk page and maybe we can work it out. Got / obtained from whom? Children are normally born - was this one not born, but created or gifted? By a god or something? Regards,
hamiltonstone (
talk) 09:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Quoting from the reference: "The King Padmaksa performed penance before Mahavisnu with a view to get Mahalaksm! as daughter. Mahavisnu gave the King a great Phallus to realize his wish. From that a beautiful girl was born. The King named her Padma." --
RedtigerxyzTalk 10:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
<shakes head> If that is what the source says, then it too is making no sense, and cannot answer my question. Any other sources on this?
hamiltonstone (
talk) 12:23, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Ah, OK, that is better. I think we are done.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 22:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hema
As the name 'Hema' is a first name, the sentence ... King of the Asuras ... the apsara (celestial nymphs) Hema. seems not to be logical, as both Asuras and apsara are groups, whereas 'Hema' names a single person.
AVS (
talk) 06:45, 23 April 2018 (UTC)reply
Categories
Category:Mandavya tribe, Category:Tribes of animal totems, Category:Totemism ?. Please explain!
AVS (
talk) 04:57, 4 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Unverified Content Around Mandodari's past
BIRTH Section: There is no verified history around Mandodari 's relationship with Lord Shiva. In Shiva Puran or Ramayan, there is no mention of Mandodari's past with Lord Shiva. Seems like the editor reads a ton of novels and likes to cook stories full of filth. The editor
Drmies has no knowledge of Hindu Mythology.
Drmies You better take your story down and stop sharing filth in this world. Please spare the Gods at least.
(
RidhV (
talk) 01:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC) )reply
Lead image
The lead image used to be
File:Ravi Varma-Lady Giving Alms at the Temple.jpg when it became a GA in 2010; however it was removed in 2013
[2] as Ravi Varma does not call it to be Mandodari. I agree with the editor that an unambiguous image of Mandodari should be used in the lead. As such, I am changing the image.
RedtigerxyzTalk 11:51, 19 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that according to Ramayana adaptations, Mandodari – the wife of the ten-headed demon
Ravana – was the mother of
Sita, whose kidnapping by Ravana would lead to his doom?
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing
the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article was
copy edited by
Diannaa, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on October 7, 2010.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Nepal, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Nepal-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
project page and add your name to the member's list.NepalWikipedia:WikiProject NepalTemplate:WikiProject NepalNepal articles
This article is within the scope of the Women in Religion WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Women in religion. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Women in ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject Women in ReligionTemplate:WikiProject Women in ReligionWomen in Religion articles
Mandodari probably is from present day Mexico, being the daughter of Maya of the Mayan Kingdom? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
174.71.59.193 (
talk) 09:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)reply
Same English spelling, completely different pronunciation. That's a real stretch at best. --
Hnsampat (
talk) 13:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)reply
GA Review
This review is
transcluded from
Talk:Mandodari/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer:hamiltonstone (
talk) 07:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is a bit of a challenge. It does meet the GA criteria for at least three reasons:reply
It is not well-written, particularly in the sense that it does not make clear (and keep clear throughout) the status of its subject as a religious / mythological figure. The lead is ambiguous in other ways too. Take this initial phrase from the lead: "was the Queen Consort of Ravana, the ten-headed Rakshasa (demon) king of Lanka and the chief villain of the Hindu epic Ramayana." If Mandodari is a figure in a book / legend etc it should read "is", rather than "was" (which is a cue that encourages the reading that she was an actual historical figure). The phrase should also be reordered to make it unambiguously clear that it is Lanka who is the chief villain, not Mandodari: eg "is the Queen Consort of Ravana, the chief villain of the Hindu epic Ramayana."
I would also begin by being clearer about her status, by saying something like Mandodari is a figure in Hindu mythology, in which she is portrayed..." etc
The third paragraph of the lead appears to mix in one para some unrelated points - a mix of plot summary with comment on how she is portrayed ("Her love and loyalty to Ravana are praised.")
It is not reliable: specifically it makes considerable use of two items that appear to me to be unreliable sources in this context: an article from a popular Indian magazine, and an online article that reads very well, but there is no evidence (that I found - please correct me if I am wrong) of the website's reliability (Boloji Media). The article also uses Wheeler, a work that is 130 years old. These do not appear appropriate. In contrast Lutgendorf and Mukherjee look to be very sound sources.
Boloji Media is a blog like website. The author of the article -
Pradip Bhattacharya is an author of Hindu mythology books as well as one on the Panch Kanya, Mandodari being one of them. About the Wheeler part, it is a translation summary of the
Ramayana. I check tell about the credentials of the author of the Week article in an day or two. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 17:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for that. Couple of comments. First, I recommend you try and use Pradip's books if they are available. However, if they are not, please leave a note on the article talk page explaining who the author is and provide some citations for their books. This will allow both me and other future editors looking at this page to be assured that the source is reliable, based on the reputation of the particular author. Regarding Wheeler, is there not a more recent translaton available? If not, we will have to live with it.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
About Pradip, his relevant book Panchkanya: Women of Substance is unavailable to me. Another biography of Pradip about his works:
[1]. The Week article is written by Dhanalakshmi Ayyer, who the magazine notes, is an associate of the Chennai chapter of Observer Research Foundation. The article (part of [Mythological] "Women of substance" series) primarily focusses more on the interpretation of Mandodari in the contemporary world, rather than her mythology. Yes, Wheeler can be replaced although
Wheeler is quite well-known, particularly for this cited book. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 16:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
To this lay reader at least, it does not appear both broad and focussed. The article appears overwhelmingly dominated by what, in the case of a work of fiction, would be called "plot summary" - most noticeable in the section "Marriage and later life". There needs to be les of this and more analysis. The article also needs more reliable sourcing to back this.
Since she is primarily a character of
Hindu mythology (Hindus consider a historical character who lived and died), the article focusses on her life story. Though she is extolled in a prayer, she is minor character in the Ramayana and there is not much analysis of the character as compared to others like
Rama or
Ravana. Also, legends are very important in Hindu mythology related articles. Some similar GAs about minor characters in epics:
Ila (Hinduism) and
Kabandha.
I just had a look at Kabandha. I think that article is better than this one, and it is a good model to follow. It certainly shows you have the skills to bring this to GA. It looks like DBaba did a good job with some additional copyediting.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
DBaba has started copyediting the article. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 16:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
I'll leave this for any responses before I fail the article, but that is my initial view. Regards,
hamiltonstone (
talk) 07:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the review. I am currently busy and will be able to fully concentrate on this GAN after Wednesday. I have also requested a copyedit. --
RedtigerxyzTalk 17:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
I am in no hurry. I will wait and see how things go.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Can you explain the meaning of "got" in this sentence: "According to the Ananda Ramayana, king Padmaksha got Padma, an incarnate of the goddess Lakshmi, as his daughter."?
hamiltonstone (
talk) 03:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks, but I'm afraid that doesn't help! Give me some background here on the talk page and maybe we can work it out. Got / obtained from whom? Children are normally born - was this one not born, but created or gifted? By a god or something? Regards,
hamiltonstone (
talk) 09:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Quoting from the reference: "The King Padmaksa performed penance before Mahavisnu with a view to get Mahalaksm! as daughter. Mahavisnu gave the King a great Phallus to realize his wish. From that a beautiful girl was born. The King named her Padma." --
RedtigerxyzTalk 10:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
<shakes head> If that is what the source says, then it too is making no sense, and cannot answer my question. Any other sources on this?
hamiltonstone (
talk) 12:23, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Ah, OK, that is better. I think we are done.
hamiltonstone (
talk) 22:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hema
As the name 'Hema' is a first name, the sentence ... King of the Asuras ... the apsara (celestial nymphs) Hema. seems not to be logical, as both Asuras and apsara are groups, whereas 'Hema' names a single person.
AVS (
talk) 06:45, 23 April 2018 (UTC)reply
Categories
Category:Mandavya tribe, Category:Tribes of animal totems, Category:Totemism ?. Please explain!
AVS (
talk) 04:57, 4 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Unverified Content Around Mandodari's past
BIRTH Section: There is no verified history around Mandodari 's relationship with Lord Shiva. In Shiva Puran or Ramayan, there is no mention of Mandodari's past with Lord Shiva. Seems like the editor reads a ton of novels and likes to cook stories full of filth. The editor
Drmies has no knowledge of Hindu Mythology.
Drmies You better take your story down and stop sharing filth in this world. Please spare the Gods at least.
(
RidhV (
talk) 01:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC) )reply
Lead image
The lead image used to be
File:Ravi Varma-Lady Giving Alms at the Temple.jpg when it became a GA in 2010; however it was removed in 2013
[2] as Ravi Varma does not call it to be Mandodari. I agree with the editor that an unambiguous image of Mandodari should be used in the lead. As such, I am changing the image.
RedtigerxyzTalk 11:51, 19 September 2020 (UTC)reply