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@ CaradhrasAiguo: Could you please explain why you think they're well-cited, please? -- Reciprocater (Talk) 03:58, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Reciprocater: You claimed that "Mainland China, also known as the Chinese mainland, is People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor" but you didn't provide a WP:RS to prove that this is primarily used as "People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor". Instead, I have found the usage of this term in New York Times [1], Washington Post [2], Bloomberg [3], CNN [4] and other sources. Thus, I think it's more than "People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor". According to the wide use of this term in US WP:RS, it's better to choose the version "Mainland China, also known as the Chinese mainland, is the geopolitical as well as geographical area under the direct jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC)." before your edit. PE fans ( talk) 17:02, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed the following:
Referring to the territories under the control of the CCP as "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is part of China. That is, the term "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is a "satellite island" of China, and that Taiwan is tethered to China (much in the same way that one might say that " Kinmen is tethered to Taiwan"). Therefore, Pan-Green individuals tend to prefer the term "China", rather than "mainland China", since the term "China" suggests that Taiwan and China are two separate countries. Pan-Green Taiwanese might also prefer to refer to China as "Communist China" or "the People's Republic of China (PRC)" or "Red China". However, these terms suggest that there exist " two Chinas". Certain Pan-Green Taiwanese believe that there exist "two Chinas" and that the Republic of China (ROC) and Taiwan are one and the same, so they would be more inclined to use these terms (compared to those who believe that the ROC is illegally occupying Taiwan). Individuals in Taiwan who are aligned with Pan-Green ideologies might be more inclined to refer to the People's Republic of China as "the Communist bandits" or "occupied/unfree area" (compared to those aligned with Pan-Blue ideologies), due to their negative (or indifferent) views towards mainland China and the CCP, though they generally don't have any intention of "reclaiming the mainland".
Reasoning: first, none of it is sourced, and some of the assertions are speculative at best. Second, a lot of it is pretty tangential to the use of the term "mainland China". The only necessary comment is that the DPP tends to use "China" over "mainland China" and to give the basic reason why.
DrIdiot ( talk) 17:06, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
You can refer to the largest part of a country or continent as the mainland when contrasting it with the islands around it.
relating to or forming the main part of a country or continent, not including the islands around it: [e.g.] ...mainland China...
a continent or the main part of a continent as distinguished from an offshore island or sometimes from a cape or peninsula
Referring to the territories under the control of the CCP as "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is part of China. That is, the term "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is a "satellite island" of China, and that Taiwan is tethered to China.— is objectively correct, from an English-speaking POV, though it might be difficult to directly source this sentence given how obscure and convoluted its subject matter is. The vast majority of major English-speaking media organisations completely ignore the nuance that I've described above, and dictionaries do not delve too deep into the matter either, given how specific it is. Nonetheless, I think it is worth the effort to investigate this particular sentence further, given how relevant it is to the corresponding Wikipedia article, in my view. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 00:42, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Separately, I also moved the PRC definitions of mainland etc. out of the lede. The main reasoning is there's a bunch of stuff in there without RS and I think are kind of questionable. The second is that I don't think it makes sense to foreground the PRC definition of mainland. It's relevant but the most important thing is that in English RS, what is the term "mainland China" used to refer to? (It's exactly what the lede says right now). DrIdiot ( talk) 07:54, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Removed sentence which seems strongly like WP:OR (no citation anyway): In some coastal provinces such as Guangdong, Fujian and Jiangsu, people often call the area of non-coastal provinces of mainland China as "Inland" (内地). DrIdiot ( talk) 07:59, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
...area under the direct jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC) since 1 October 1949...is slightly inaccurate given that certain territories that are currently within mainland China were not held by the PRC by that date. The island of Hainan, for example, was captured by the PRC only in 1950, the next year. Obviously, this is a relatively minor detail, but its omission is still a problem. In fact, I'd say that the correct phrasing should be... "the area claimed and controlled by the PRC in the present day (excluding Hong Kong and Macau)". It is also true that the PRC has reorganised its borders with various countries throughout the past seven decades of its existence so far, which I suppose has possibly entailed the relinquishment of certain territories along its borders. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 19:45, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
The phrase "mainland China" emerged as a politically neutral term to refer to the area under control of the CCP, and later to the administration of the PRC itself.[citation needed] Until the late 1970s, both the PRC and ROC envisioned a military takeover of the other. During this time the ROC referred to the PRC government as "Communist Bandits" (共匪) while the PRC referred to the ROC as "Chiang Bandits" (蒋匪; 蔣匪). Later, as a military solution became less feasible, the ROC referred to the PRC as "Communist China"" (中共). With the democratisation of Taiwan in the 1990s, the phrase "mainland China" soon grew to mean not only the area under the control of the CCP, but also a more neutral[citation needed] means to refer to the People's Republic of China government; this usage remains prevalent by the KMT today.
There are no sources cited here, and some stuff here doesn't make sense. For example, 反攻大陸 is certianly not a "neutral" usage of "mainland." I question this assertion that "mainland" arose out of a need for "neutrality." More likely it was just a convenient want to refer to the area controlled by the PRC. I also question the assertion that it's later use arose out of political neutrality... it's probably just out of continuity. I propose we delete most of this paragraph unless some RS can be found. DrIdiot ( talk) 04:27, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
(Re: Hainan) — I see that you've ( DrIdiot) made some slight changes in the lede with regards to Hainan. In fact, I think it is important to point out that Hainan is indeed a "large island". Otherwise, it would not entirely make sense to mention Hainan exclusively whilst ignoring the thousands of other much smaller islands that are governed by the PRC. The fact alone that Hainan is an "island" does not warrant its mention in the lede... rather, it is relevant to mention that Hainan is a more significant island than all other islands of China (excluding the claimed-but-not-controlled Taiwan) on account of its significant size. | The term "mainland China" is not strictly speaking geographic anyway, but it is easy to see how confusion can arise. If one were to consider "mainland China" in the geographic sense, then, logically, it would exclude ALL islands ruled by the PRC, including not only Hainan but also the thousands of other smaller islands of the PRC. | Personally, myself being Australian, I find the term " mainland Australia" to be very useful for providing a standard upon which to measure the term "mainland China" against. "Mainland Australia" refers to the main island of Australia (i.e. continent-sized island), primarily excluding the large island of Tasmania, but also excluding every other island of Australia. Essentially, it refers ONLY to the contiguous landmass of the main island of Australia, and it excludes any territories that can only be accessed from the mainland by crossing water. Obviously, China's similar term "mainland China" doesn't actually exclude any of the islands ruled by the PRC, which makes it fundamentally different in scope (the details covered) when compared to the term "mainland Australia". Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 16:55, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Regarding the first sentence:
The term "mainland China" describes the political status of the territory governed by the People's Republic of China (PRC),
I prefer the original wording: that "mainland China" describes the area under direct administration by the PRC. In particular I think "direct administration" is more precise than "governed". Also I don't think "mainland China" describes a political status, it's refers to a place defined by geopoligical boundaries (of a certain status), but it's not a description of the status itself. DrIdiot ( talk) 06:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Other suggestions:
DrIdiot ( talk) 09:38, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
and fall outside of the "mainland"— is crucial because it explains the etymology of the word "mainland China", beyond just the definition. The territory of "mainland China" doesn't just exclude the territories that are mentioned... it is fundamentally defined by the exclusion of these territories. As I've explained in numerous comments above, the entire concept of a "mainland" would not exist without the existence of a corresponding "lesserland". The mainland and lesserland of China are, for want of a better analogy, like Yin and Yang. One can't exist without the other. There is a twinned relationship between the two concepts, and each concept is entirely reliant on the existence of the other for its own survival. Without the lesserland of China, there is no mainland. The lesserland is defined as the territories I listed, i.e. Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Fujian Province (ROC), and South China Sea Islands. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:07, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
(Re: My own comments about the "lesserland") — There are more territories than just Taiwan, Fujian Province (ROC) and SCSI that are claimed by the PRC. However, the reason that I did not list any of these other territories is due to "common" usage... The main territories that I have in mind are Aksai Chin (uninhabited territory controlled by the PRC), Arunachal Pradesh (a state of India), and Senkaku Islands (uninhabited territory controlled by Japan). These three territories in particular are some of the main disputes that China has apart from Taiwan. However, given that Aksai Chin and the Senkaku Islands are uninhabited, there is no grassroots self-determination or irredentism involved... the two disputes are entirely geopolitical in nature (i.e. expansionist, imperialist, etc.), with no sense of cultural nationalism whatsoever aside from what is instilled by the state via state propaganda. The South China Sea Islands are also mostly geopolitical in nature (aside from certain incidents of Vietnamese and Filipino fishermen being harassed or even kidnapped by the PRC), but it is quite clear that the international community stands firmly against China's territorial claim to this region (unlike Taiwan, for example, whose status is hotly debated around the world). Meanwhile, Arunachal Pradesh actually does have a native population... and it has not been included on the list due to being controlled by India, who are essentially the natives of the region. If the PRC were to invade and annex Arunachal Pradesh, it would be a foreign government, plain and simple... The PRC's claim to Arunachal Pradesh is purely imperialist in nature. No one native to Arunachal Pradesh refers to their relationship with China as the "mainland"... they consider China to be a foreign country. So, that's the justification for Arunchal Pradesh's absence (as opposed to Taiwan's inclusion, which is justified through a grassroots cultural lens and a true shared history between Taiwan and the PRC). Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:25, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
I've removed the SCS section from the lede. It's getting out of hand; there are no RS that defines the relationship between the term mainland China and the SCS, which makes it WP:OR. It's also WP:UNDUE for the lede, taking up a good 30% of the text. Here it is for reference (sans one POV part I removed in an edit I was going to make):
The PRC claims and partially controls the South China Sea Islands (SCSI), a large maritime region dotted with small islands that is subject to several overlapping territorial and maritime disputes involving several countries. The PRC administers all of the SCSI islands that it controls as parts of Hainan Province, which is an administrative subdivision of mainland China. This includes the city of Sansha, which is comprised entirely of SCSI islands. The PRC's claim to and partial control of the region are unrecognised internationally. Taiwan also partially controls the region and claims it on the basis of the historical ROC (1912–1949)'s preceding claim to the region. The PRC claims one SCSI island as a part of Guangdong Province, namely Pratas Island, and this island is under ROC control. The PRC also claim the Senkaku Islands, a group of Japanese-controlled islands in the East China Sea, as a part of Taiwan Province (PRC). The Senkaku Islands have never been under the control of either the PRC, the historical ROC (1912–1949), or Taiwan. Taiwan also claims the Senkaku Islands as a part of itself on the basis of the historical ROC's preceding claim to the region.
This is not an article on the territorial disputes of the PRC. Maybe this could go in the body, but I honestly don't see a strong case for it either. DrIdiot ( talk) 00:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
To be extra extra clear, I do not believe the Wiki article needs to clarify the definition of mainland China beyond what is done in RS, even if definitions in said RS don't address edge cases (like SCS). To do so would be WP:OR. DrIdiot ( talk) 00:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Most RS I see define mainland China by what it *is*, not what it *isn't*. I suggest we revert to that description in the lede, with maybe a sentence nodding toward Territorial disputes of the People's Republic of China. Can we get a list of RS? [5] for example. DrIdiot ( talk) 01:12, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Removed this text:
The phrase "mainland China" emerged as a politically neutral term to refer to the area under control of the CCP, and later to the administration of the PRC itself. citation needed Until the late 1970s, both the PRC and ROC envisioned a military takeover of the other. During this time the ROC referred to the PRC government as "Communist Bandits" (共匪) while the PRC referred to the ROC as " Chiang Bandits" (蒋匪; 蔣匪). Later, as a military solution became less feasible, the ROC referred to the PRC as "Communist China"" (中共).
Seems speculative, no source. Don't like the use of the word "neutral" -- what does neutral mean? DrIdiot ( talk) 17:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Specifically, it is speculating on the source of the term, and this needs WP:RS from secondary sources. Etymology is difficult to pin down. DrIdiot ( talk) 02:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Replacing "the region" with "China". The reference [1] seems to have been added to suggest that Japan invaded "mainland China". This is... a big stretch to make. I pulled the reference and it's not clear at all what the author means by mainland. Can leave the reference in, but Japan invaded China in the 1930s, and it doesn't correspond the notion of "mainland China" as it is discussed in this article with any historical notion. DrIdiot ( talk) 11:37, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Removed this sentence since it's not clear what Japanese invasion has to do with the term: In the 1930s, China faced Japanese invasion. [2] DrIdiot ( talk) 17:13, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The result of the move request was: Not Moved due to unanimous consensus against proposal ( non-admin closure) >>> Extorc. talk 11:39, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Mainland China → ? – Chinese mainland is the correct name. Official medias or Chinese government calls it Chinese mainland. But western media always use the wrong words(like the name of CCP). MChinaGA ( talk) 09:53, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Suggest removing "(as opposed to "Blue China")" in "Red China" (as opposed to "Blue China") under section Taiwan (Republic of China), unless the citation is provided. In Taiwan, blue refers to the KMT and green refers to the Democratic Progressive Party as part of the Taiwan political landscape. Blue and green are not related to mainland China. Please provide a citation for blue China. Without a reliable, published source ( WP:REPUTABLE), recommend removing the phrase. Thank you. Path2space ( talk) 01:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mainland China article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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@ CaradhrasAiguo: Could you please explain why you think they're well-cited, please? -- Reciprocater (Talk) 03:58, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Reciprocater: You claimed that "Mainland China, also known as the Chinese mainland, is People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor" but you didn't provide a WP:RS to prove that this is primarily used as "People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor". Instead, I have found the usage of this term in New York Times [1], Washington Post [2], Bloomberg [3], CNN [4] and other sources. Thus, I think it's more than "People's Republic of China (PRC)'s official descriptor". According to the wide use of this term in US WP:RS, it's better to choose the version "Mainland China, also known as the Chinese mainland, is the geopolitical as well as geographical area under the direct jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC)." before your edit. PE fans ( talk) 17:02, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed the following:
Referring to the territories under the control of the CCP as "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is part of China. That is, the term "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is a "satellite island" of China, and that Taiwan is tethered to China (much in the same way that one might say that " Kinmen is tethered to Taiwan"). Therefore, Pan-Green individuals tend to prefer the term "China", rather than "mainland China", since the term "China" suggests that Taiwan and China are two separate countries. Pan-Green Taiwanese might also prefer to refer to China as "Communist China" or "the People's Republic of China (PRC)" or "Red China". However, these terms suggest that there exist " two Chinas". Certain Pan-Green Taiwanese believe that there exist "two Chinas" and that the Republic of China (ROC) and Taiwan are one and the same, so they would be more inclined to use these terms (compared to those who believe that the ROC is illegally occupying Taiwan). Individuals in Taiwan who are aligned with Pan-Green ideologies might be more inclined to refer to the People's Republic of China as "the Communist bandits" or "occupied/unfree area" (compared to those aligned with Pan-Blue ideologies), due to their negative (or indifferent) views towards mainland China and the CCP, though they generally don't have any intention of "reclaiming the mainland".
Reasoning: first, none of it is sourced, and some of the assertions are speculative at best. Second, a lot of it is pretty tangential to the use of the term "mainland China". The only necessary comment is that the DPP tends to use "China" over "mainland China" and to give the basic reason why.
DrIdiot ( talk) 17:06, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
You can refer to the largest part of a country or continent as the mainland when contrasting it with the islands around it.
relating to or forming the main part of a country or continent, not including the islands around it: [e.g.] ...mainland China...
a continent or the main part of a continent as distinguished from an offshore island or sometimes from a cape or peninsula
Referring to the territories under the control of the CCP as "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is part of China. That is, the term "mainland China" suggests that Taiwan is a "satellite island" of China, and that Taiwan is tethered to China.— is objectively correct, from an English-speaking POV, though it might be difficult to directly source this sentence given how obscure and convoluted its subject matter is. The vast majority of major English-speaking media organisations completely ignore the nuance that I've described above, and dictionaries do not delve too deep into the matter either, given how specific it is. Nonetheless, I think it is worth the effort to investigate this particular sentence further, given how relevant it is to the corresponding Wikipedia article, in my view. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 00:42, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Separately, I also moved the PRC definitions of mainland etc. out of the lede. The main reasoning is there's a bunch of stuff in there without RS and I think are kind of questionable. The second is that I don't think it makes sense to foreground the PRC definition of mainland. It's relevant but the most important thing is that in English RS, what is the term "mainland China" used to refer to? (It's exactly what the lede says right now). DrIdiot ( talk) 07:54, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Removed sentence which seems strongly like WP:OR (no citation anyway): In some coastal provinces such as Guangdong, Fujian and Jiangsu, people often call the area of non-coastal provinces of mainland China as "Inland" (内地). DrIdiot ( talk) 07:59, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
...area under the direct jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC) since 1 October 1949...is slightly inaccurate given that certain territories that are currently within mainland China were not held by the PRC by that date. The island of Hainan, for example, was captured by the PRC only in 1950, the next year. Obviously, this is a relatively minor detail, but its omission is still a problem. In fact, I'd say that the correct phrasing should be... "the area claimed and controlled by the PRC in the present day (excluding Hong Kong and Macau)". It is also true that the PRC has reorganised its borders with various countries throughout the past seven decades of its existence so far, which I suppose has possibly entailed the relinquishment of certain territories along its borders. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 19:45, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
The phrase "mainland China" emerged as a politically neutral term to refer to the area under control of the CCP, and later to the administration of the PRC itself.[citation needed] Until the late 1970s, both the PRC and ROC envisioned a military takeover of the other. During this time the ROC referred to the PRC government as "Communist Bandits" (共匪) while the PRC referred to the ROC as "Chiang Bandits" (蒋匪; 蔣匪). Later, as a military solution became less feasible, the ROC referred to the PRC as "Communist China"" (中共). With the democratisation of Taiwan in the 1990s, the phrase "mainland China" soon grew to mean not only the area under the control of the CCP, but also a more neutral[citation needed] means to refer to the People's Republic of China government; this usage remains prevalent by the KMT today.
There are no sources cited here, and some stuff here doesn't make sense. For example, 反攻大陸 is certianly not a "neutral" usage of "mainland." I question this assertion that "mainland" arose out of a need for "neutrality." More likely it was just a convenient want to refer to the area controlled by the PRC. I also question the assertion that it's later use arose out of political neutrality... it's probably just out of continuity. I propose we delete most of this paragraph unless some RS can be found. DrIdiot ( talk) 04:27, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
(Re: Hainan) — I see that you've ( DrIdiot) made some slight changes in the lede with regards to Hainan. In fact, I think it is important to point out that Hainan is indeed a "large island". Otherwise, it would not entirely make sense to mention Hainan exclusively whilst ignoring the thousands of other much smaller islands that are governed by the PRC. The fact alone that Hainan is an "island" does not warrant its mention in the lede... rather, it is relevant to mention that Hainan is a more significant island than all other islands of China (excluding the claimed-but-not-controlled Taiwan) on account of its significant size. | The term "mainland China" is not strictly speaking geographic anyway, but it is easy to see how confusion can arise. If one were to consider "mainland China" in the geographic sense, then, logically, it would exclude ALL islands ruled by the PRC, including not only Hainan but also the thousands of other smaller islands of the PRC. | Personally, myself being Australian, I find the term " mainland Australia" to be very useful for providing a standard upon which to measure the term "mainland China" against. "Mainland Australia" refers to the main island of Australia (i.e. continent-sized island), primarily excluding the large island of Tasmania, but also excluding every other island of Australia. Essentially, it refers ONLY to the contiguous landmass of the main island of Australia, and it excludes any territories that can only be accessed from the mainland by crossing water. Obviously, China's similar term "mainland China" doesn't actually exclude any of the islands ruled by the PRC, which makes it fundamentally different in scope (the details covered) when compared to the term "mainland Australia". Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 16:55, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Regarding the first sentence:
The term "mainland China" describes the political status of the territory governed by the People's Republic of China (PRC),
I prefer the original wording: that "mainland China" describes the area under direct administration by the PRC. In particular I think "direct administration" is more precise than "governed". Also I don't think "mainland China" describes a political status, it's refers to a place defined by geopoligical boundaries (of a certain status), but it's not a description of the status itself. DrIdiot ( talk) 06:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Other suggestions:
DrIdiot ( talk) 09:38, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
and fall outside of the "mainland"— is crucial because it explains the etymology of the word "mainland China", beyond just the definition. The territory of "mainland China" doesn't just exclude the territories that are mentioned... it is fundamentally defined by the exclusion of these territories. As I've explained in numerous comments above, the entire concept of a "mainland" would not exist without the existence of a corresponding "lesserland". The mainland and lesserland of China are, for want of a better analogy, like Yin and Yang. One can't exist without the other. There is a twinned relationship between the two concepts, and each concept is entirely reliant on the existence of the other for its own survival. Without the lesserland of China, there is no mainland. The lesserland is defined as the territories I listed, i.e. Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Fujian Province (ROC), and South China Sea Islands. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:07, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
(Re: My own comments about the "lesserland") — There are more territories than just Taiwan, Fujian Province (ROC) and SCSI that are claimed by the PRC. However, the reason that I did not list any of these other territories is due to "common" usage... The main territories that I have in mind are Aksai Chin (uninhabited territory controlled by the PRC), Arunachal Pradesh (a state of India), and Senkaku Islands (uninhabited territory controlled by Japan). These three territories in particular are some of the main disputes that China has apart from Taiwan. However, given that Aksai Chin and the Senkaku Islands are uninhabited, there is no grassroots self-determination or irredentism involved... the two disputes are entirely geopolitical in nature (i.e. expansionist, imperialist, etc.), with no sense of cultural nationalism whatsoever aside from what is instilled by the state via state propaganda. The South China Sea Islands are also mostly geopolitical in nature (aside from certain incidents of Vietnamese and Filipino fishermen being harassed or even kidnapped by the PRC), but it is quite clear that the international community stands firmly against China's territorial claim to this region (unlike Taiwan, for example, whose status is hotly debated around the world). Meanwhile, Arunachal Pradesh actually does have a native population... and it has not been included on the list due to being controlled by India, who are essentially the natives of the region. If the PRC were to invade and annex Arunachal Pradesh, it would be a foreign government, plain and simple... The PRC's claim to Arunachal Pradesh is purely imperialist in nature. No one native to Arunachal Pradesh refers to their relationship with China as the "mainland"... they consider China to be a foreign country. So, that's the justification for Arunchal Pradesh's absence (as opposed to Taiwan's inclusion, which is justified through a grassroots cultural lens and a true shared history between Taiwan and the PRC). Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:25, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
I've removed the SCS section from the lede. It's getting out of hand; there are no RS that defines the relationship between the term mainland China and the SCS, which makes it WP:OR. It's also WP:UNDUE for the lede, taking up a good 30% of the text. Here it is for reference (sans one POV part I removed in an edit I was going to make):
The PRC claims and partially controls the South China Sea Islands (SCSI), a large maritime region dotted with small islands that is subject to several overlapping territorial and maritime disputes involving several countries. The PRC administers all of the SCSI islands that it controls as parts of Hainan Province, which is an administrative subdivision of mainland China. This includes the city of Sansha, which is comprised entirely of SCSI islands. The PRC's claim to and partial control of the region are unrecognised internationally. Taiwan also partially controls the region and claims it on the basis of the historical ROC (1912–1949)'s preceding claim to the region. The PRC claims one SCSI island as a part of Guangdong Province, namely Pratas Island, and this island is under ROC control. The PRC also claim the Senkaku Islands, a group of Japanese-controlled islands in the East China Sea, as a part of Taiwan Province (PRC). The Senkaku Islands have never been under the control of either the PRC, the historical ROC (1912–1949), or Taiwan. Taiwan also claims the Senkaku Islands as a part of itself on the basis of the historical ROC's preceding claim to the region.
This is not an article on the territorial disputes of the PRC. Maybe this could go in the body, but I honestly don't see a strong case for it either. DrIdiot ( talk) 00:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
To be extra extra clear, I do not believe the Wiki article needs to clarify the definition of mainland China beyond what is done in RS, even if definitions in said RS don't address edge cases (like SCS). To do so would be WP:OR. DrIdiot ( talk) 00:57, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Most RS I see define mainland China by what it *is*, not what it *isn't*. I suggest we revert to that description in the lede, with maybe a sentence nodding toward Territorial disputes of the People's Republic of China. Can we get a list of RS? [5] for example. DrIdiot ( talk) 01:12, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Removed this text:
The phrase "mainland China" emerged as a politically neutral term to refer to the area under control of the CCP, and later to the administration of the PRC itself. citation needed Until the late 1970s, both the PRC and ROC envisioned a military takeover of the other. During this time the ROC referred to the PRC government as "Communist Bandits" (共匪) while the PRC referred to the ROC as " Chiang Bandits" (蒋匪; 蔣匪). Later, as a military solution became less feasible, the ROC referred to the PRC as "Communist China"" (中共).
Seems speculative, no source. Don't like the use of the word "neutral" -- what does neutral mean? DrIdiot ( talk) 17:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Specifically, it is speculating on the source of the term, and this needs WP:RS from secondary sources. Etymology is difficult to pin down. DrIdiot ( talk) 02:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Replacing "the region" with "China". The reference [1] seems to have been added to suggest that Japan invaded "mainland China". This is... a big stretch to make. I pulled the reference and it's not clear at all what the author means by mainland. Can leave the reference in, but Japan invaded China in the 1930s, and it doesn't correspond the notion of "mainland China" as it is discussed in this article with any historical notion. DrIdiot ( talk) 11:37, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Removed this sentence since it's not clear what Japanese invasion has to do with the term: In the 1930s, China faced Japanese invasion. [2] DrIdiot ( talk) 17:13, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The result of the move request was: Not Moved due to unanimous consensus against proposal ( non-admin closure) >>> Extorc. talk 11:39, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Mainland China → ? – Chinese mainland is the correct name. Official medias or Chinese government calls it Chinese mainland. But western media always use the wrong words(like the name of CCP). MChinaGA ( talk) 09:53, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Suggest removing "(as opposed to "Blue China")" in "Red China" (as opposed to "Blue China") under section Taiwan (Republic of China), unless the citation is provided. In Taiwan, blue refers to the KMT and green refers to the Democratic Progressive Party as part of the Taiwan political landscape. Blue and green are not related to mainland China. Please provide a citation for blue China. Without a reliable, published source ( WP:REPUTABLE), recommend removing the phrase. Thank you. Path2space ( talk) 01:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)