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I propose moving the article to North Macedonia denar in accordance to Prespa Agreement and the following UN guidelines: "Currency Designation: North Macedonia denar" I recommend that we follow this naming and the Prespa agreement to the word, to avoid endless edit wars , vandalisms etc. -- Stevepeterson ( talk) 10:44, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
The title of this page looks out-of-date and North Macedonia has already released coins with the new name of the country. Currency names and their abbreviations are internationally standarized by ISO 4217 as discussed above, and by looking at the up-to-date currency code reported by iso.org in different formats [ here], e.g., [ XLS] and [ XML]. For the currency of North Macedonia, the new official name is denar, and the code remains MKD.
This is not the only case where the name of the country is not part of the official name of the currency. For example, "Kwanza" of Angola, "Lek" of Albania, "Taka" of Bangladesh, and so on. In all these cases, wikipedia uses the adjective derived from the name of the country in front of the currency name for disambiguation, i.e., Angolan kwanza, Albanian Lek, and Bangladeshi Taka.
A similar policy is followed by United Nations that report the currency as North Macedonia denar (as pointed out by Stevepeterson).
I don't have a strong preference between North Macedonian denar (consistent with all other currencies in wikipedia) and North Macedonia denar (used by United Nations), as none of them is official, the official is simply denar. I may slightly prefer North Macedonian denar as I don't see any drawback of it. Another proposal may be to change the title to Denar (MKD) but this is inconsistent to all other wikipedia pages too.
Some examples of recent links (after Prespa Agreement) from the National Bank of North Macedonia confirm that "Macedonian denar" is not used at all. The currency is called denar. Please look at: link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4, link 5
I am looking forward for your proposals. Thanks. Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας 17:55, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 1 September 2022. The result of the move review was Overturned to no consensus. |
The result of the move request was: Moved. There is a clear consensus, with evidence presented, that the proposed name is the WP:COMMONNAME. — Amakuru ( talk) 16:31, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Macedonian denar → North Macedonian denar – The title of this page looks out-of-date and North Macedonia has already released coins with the new name of the country. Currency names and their abbreviations are internationally standarized by ISO 4217 as discussed above, and by looking at the up-to-date currency code reported by iso.org in different formats [ here], e.g., [ XLS] and [ XML]. For the currency of North Macedonia, the new official name is denar, and the code remains MKD.
This is not the only case where the name of the country is not part of the official name of the currency. For example, "Kwanza" of Angola, "Lek" of Albania, "Taka" of Bangladesh, and so on. In all these cases, wikipedia uses the adjective derived from the name of the country in front of the currency name for disambiguation, i.e., Angolan kwanza, Albanian Lek, and Bangladeshi Taka.
A similar policy is followed by United Nations that report the currency as North Macedonia denar (as pointed out by Stevepeterson).
I don't have a strong preference between North Macedonian denar (consistent with all other currencies in wikipedia) and North Macedonia denar (used by United Nations), as none of them is official, the official is simply denar. I may slightly prefer North Macedonian denar as I don't see any drawback of it. Another proposal may be to change the title to Denar (MKD) but this is inconsistent to all other wikipedia pages too.
Some examples of recent links (after Prespa Agreement) from the National Bank of North Macedonia confirm that "Macedonian denar" is not used at all. The currency is called denar. Please look at: link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4, link 5 Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας( talk) 14:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 20:28, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
detailed discussion for the list of reliable sources
|
---|
|
outdated "Macedonian denar" list; please see
User:Local hero/sandbox for up-to-date "Macedonian denar" list
|
---|
This seems to be turning into a who-has-more-time-to-scour-the-web discussion. So, here we go for "Macedonian denar", all post-Prespa agreement:
Can we now agree that there has been *no definitive switch* to "North Macedonian denar", but still adjust the lead sentence to provide "North Macedonian denar" as an alternative name? -- Local hero talk 04:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC) |
detailed discussion for the list of reliable sources
|
---|
North Macedonia Travel Guide 2020 will help you plan your trip to this beautiful country in the Balkans. The guide book contains up to the date information about local cuisine, transportation, interesting places to visit, accomodation options, security and the history of North Macedonia. Written by a native who has tons of useful knowledge, North Macedonia Travel Guide 2020 is a handy and useful passport to the best in North Macedonia!
|
Options | Official Name | Most Common Name | Unambiguous | Recommended by WP:MOSMAC | In line with the new country's name | Consistent with the page titles for currencies of other countries |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
North Macedonian denar | NO | used in 47% of the reliable source | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Macedonian denar | NO | used in 31% of the reliable sources | maybe | NO | NO | NO |
denar | YES | NO | NO | Neutral | Neutral | NO |
Winner | denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar |
The table shows that North Macedonian denar satisfies all criteria and wins the other two options in all categories. The only exception is the official name, in which denar wins.
The current Macedonian denar does not win in any category.
Given that there is no advantage of the current Macedonian denar versus the proposed North Macedonian denar, if some user still opposes to North Macedonian denar, would s/he like to tell us what are the arguments to support the current title that is not the most common name, may be ambiguous, is not recommended by WP:MOSMAC, is not in line with the new country's name, and is not consistent with the names used for other currencies? Wikipedia should report facts and be built based on reality. Personal preferences should stay away from this discussion unless they are supported by evidence. Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας( talk) 09:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Comment: The "Macedonian denar" references list now resides at User:Local hero/sandbox. There are well over 200 listed, more than half of which are from international organizations, nearly three dozen are from foreign governments, another nearly three dozen from businesses/business news/business entities, just over a dozen books and journals, almost two dozen miscellaneous news articles and company websites. This is not counting others I've compiled that others may find to be "borderline".
Now, I'll finally turn to the "North Macedonian" list. The following should be excluded:
Other notes:
Conclusion:
Thus, I conservatively get 207 for "Macedonian denar" and 113 for "North Macedonian denar" (nearly one-third from Kosovo Central Bank) at this point. I essentially rest my case here. "Macedonian denar" remains by far preferred by international organizations, by foreign governments (particularly from English-speaking countries), currency exchange websites, business news sites, online remittance providers, cryptocurrency exchanges, business data sites, Google books results (in quantity and quality), foreign companies, etc. Truly the only edge "North Macedonian denar" seems to have is at the Kosovo Central Bank. We can also see that Google trends indicate "Macedonian denar" is much more popular. I believe it is clear that "North Macedonian denar" has not overtaken "Macedonian denar" as the common name and we can all stop scouring the web now. -- Local hero talk 21:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
The name of the currency is denar, and "Macedonian" doesn't come before it officially, and no other currency today is called denar. I believe that denar is where this article should belong, while a footnote be included at the top diverting to the actual dinar main page. Compare this with German Mark which redirects to Deutsche Mark, but at least Deutsche was part of the actual name. -- Juicy Oranges ( talk) 21:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I propose moving the article to North Macedonia denar in accordance to Prespa Agreement and the following UN guidelines: "Currency Designation: North Macedonia denar" I recommend that we follow this naming and the Prespa agreement to the word, to avoid endless edit wars , vandalisms etc. -- Stevepeterson ( talk) 10:44, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
The title of this page looks out-of-date and North Macedonia has already released coins with the new name of the country. Currency names and their abbreviations are internationally standarized by ISO 4217 as discussed above, and by looking at the up-to-date currency code reported by iso.org in different formats [ here], e.g., [ XLS] and [ XML]. For the currency of North Macedonia, the new official name is denar, and the code remains MKD.
This is not the only case where the name of the country is not part of the official name of the currency. For example, "Kwanza" of Angola, "Lek" of Albania, "Taka" of Bangladesh, and so on. In all these cases, wikipedia uses the adjective derived from the name of the country in front of the currency name for disambiguation, i.e., Angolan kwanza, Albanian Lek, and Bangladeshi Taka.
A similar policy is followed by United Nations that report the currency as North Macedonia denar (as pointed out by Stevepeterson).
I don't have a strong preference between North Macedonian denar (consistent with all other currencies in wikipedia) and North Macedonia denar (used by United Nations), as none of them is official, the official is simply denar. I may slightly prefer North Macedonian denar as I don't see any drawback of it. Another proposal may be to change the title to Denar (MKD) but this is inconsistent to all other wikipedia pages too.
Some examples of recent links (after Prespa Agreement) from the National Bank of North Macedonia confirm that "Macedonian denar" is not used at all. The currency is called denar. Please look at: link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4, link 5
I am looking forward for your proposals. Thanks. Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας 17:55, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 1 September 2022. The result of the move review was Overturned to no consensus. |
The result of the move request was: Moved. There is a clear consensus, with evidence presented, that the proposed name is the WP:COMMONNAME. — Amakuru ( talk) 16:31, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Macedonian denar → North Macedonian denar – The title of this page looks out-of-date and North Macedonia has already released coins with the new name of the country. Currency names and their abbreviations are internationally standarized by ISO 4217 as discussed above, and by looking at the up-to-date currency code reported by iso.org in different formats [ here], e.g., [ XLS] and [ XML]. For the currency of North Macedonia, the new official name is denar, and the code remains MKD.
This is not the only case where the name of the country is not part of the official name of the currency. For example, "Kwanza" of Angola, "Lek" of Albania, "Taka" of Bangladesh, and so on. In all these cases, wikipedia uses the adjective derived from the name of the country in front of the currency name for disambiguation, i.e., Angolan kwanza, Albanian Lek, and Bangladeshi Taka.
A similar policy is followed by United Nations that report the currency as North Macedonia denar (as pointed out by Stevepeterson).
I don't have a strong preference between North Macedonian denar (consistent with all other currencies in wikipedia) and North Macedonia denar (used by United Nations), as none of them is official, the official is simply denar. I may slightly prefer North Macedonian denar as I don't see any drawback of it. Another proposal may be to change the title to Denar (MKD) but this is inconsistent to all other wikipedia pages too.
Some examples of recent links (after Prespa Agreement) from the National Bank of North Macedonia confirm that "Macedonian denar" is not used at all. The currency is called denar. Please look at: link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4, link 5 Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας( talk) 14:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 20:28, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
detailed discussion for the list of reliable sources
|
---|
|
outdated "Macedonian denar" list; please see
User:Local hero/sandbox for up-to-date "Macedonian denar" list
|
---|
This seems to be turning into a who-has-more-time-to-scour-the-web discussion. So, here we go for "Macedonian denar", all post-Prespa agreement:
Can we now agree that there has been *no definitive switch* to "North Macedonian denar", but still adjust the lead sentence to provide "North Macedonian denar" as an alternative name? -- Local hero talk 04:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC) |
detailed discussion for the list of reliable sources
|
---|
North Macedonia Travel Guide 2020 will help you plan your trip to this beautiful country in the Balkans. The guide book contains up to the date information about local cuisine, transportation, interesting places to visit, accomodation options, security and the history of North Macedonia. Written by a native who has tons of useful knowledge, North Macedonia Travel Guide 2020 is a handy and useful passport to the best in North Macedonia!
|
Options | Official Name | Most Common Name | Unambiguous | Recommended by WP:MOSMAC | In line with the new country's name | Consistent with the page titles for currencies of other countries |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
North Macedonian denar | NO | used in 47% of the reliable source | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Macedonian denar | NO | used in 31% of the reliable sources | maybe | NO | NO | NO |
denar | YES | NO | NO | Neutral | Neutral | NO |
Winner | denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar | North Macedonian denar |
The table shows that North Macedonian denar satisfies all criteria and wins the other two options in all categories. The only exception is the official name, in which denar wins.
The current Macedonian denar does not win in any category.
Given that there is no advantage of the current Macedonian denar versus the proposed North Macedonian denar, if some user still opposes to North Macedonian denar, would s/he like to tell us what are the arguments to support the current title that is not the most common name, may be ambiguous, is not recommended by WP:MOSMAC, is not in line with the new country's name, and is not consistent with the names used for other currencies? Wikipedia should report facts and be built based on reality. Personal preferences should stay away from this discussion unless they are supported by evidence. Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας( talk) 09:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Comment: The "Macedonian denar" references list now resides at User:Local hero/sandbox. There are well over 200 listed, more than half of which are from international organizations, nearly three dozen are from foreign governments, another nearly three dozen from businesses/business news/business entities, just over a dozen books and journals, almost two dozen miscellaneous news articles and company websites. This is not counting others I've compiled that others may find to be "borderline".
Now, I'll finally turn to the "North Macedonian" list. The following should be excluded:
Other notes:
Conclusion:
Thus, I conservatively get 207 for "Macedonian denar" and 113 for "North Macedonian denar" (nearly one-third from Kosovo Central Bank) at this point. I essentially rest my case here. "Macedonian denar" remains by far preferred by international organizations, by foreign governments (particularly from English-speaking countries), currency exchange websites, business news sites, online remittance providers, cryptocurrency exchanges, business data sites, Google books results (in quantity and quality), foreign companies, etc. Truly the only edge "North Macedonian denar" seems to have is at the Kosovo Central Bank. We can also see that Google trends indicate "Macedonian denar" is much more popular. I believe it is clear that "North Macedonian denar" has not overtaken "Macedonian denar" as the common name and we can all stop scouring the web now. -- Local hero talk 21:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
The name of the currency is denar, and "Macedonian" doesn't come before it officially, and no other currency today is called denar. I believe that denar is where this article should belong, while a footnote be included at the top diverting to the actual dinar main page. Compare this with German Mark which redirects to Deutsche Mark, but at least Deutsche was part of the actual name. -- Juicy Oranges ( talk) 21:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)