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On September 2013, it was proposed that this article be moved from Milleniata to M-DISC. The result of the discussion was page moved. |
Too bad this article reads as an advertisement and not even a good one at that. No details on what the differences are and how it works. No info on similar or competing technologies. I came to this article wanting to know what the heck the M-disc logo on my LG WH14NS40 means and this left me with most of my questions unanswered. At least it's notable... :) 71.196.246.113 ( talk) 02:54, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. — Hobart ( talk) 00:34, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
References
The request to rename this article to M-DISC has been carried out. |
Millenniata → M-DISC – The technology (a type of recorder & media currently available in stores) is notable, but the company itself doesn't merit a separate article. — Hobart ( talk) 01:52, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.I think we should have an 'M-Disc alternative' chapter available. Not talking about regular CD/DVD/Blueray, or HDD/SSD/Floppy, or cloud. But more about long term storage products that could compete with M-Disc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.140.111.29 ( talk) 01:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Please add content about prospects for audio CD-R version of this tech. Such recordings seem to currently be particularly vulnerable to bit-rot.- 71.174.177.142 ( talk) 13:56, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on M-DISC. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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If I did not already know the principles of how information is stored on optical discs, I would not understand this article at all. It is lacking structure and actually also content. User:ScotXW t@lk 09:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Could whoever wrote this tell an actual English speaker what they meant to say so it can be put into English? jae ( talk) 14:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
The last section of the page mentions SSDs out of nowhere, saying that they suffer from bit-rot over time compared to "mechanical". This was mostly spawned from a misinterpretation of a JEDEC report on enterprise drives which had nearly reached their insane lifetime write capacities that usually stretch into 10s of petabytes these days and the effects of storing them at very high temperatures with no power. These are drives that have almost burned out their storage capability anyway, in the sense that the cells have trouble holding a charge. Your consumer drive will never reach this level of usage, unless it's one of the typical bottom-binned models marketed to gamers which can be rated for as low as 300 write cycles and you're constantly reinstalling different games and windows on it. A new drive used to back up data every 6 months or so will probably never lose data in this way.
The more important part, though, is what happens if you DO power it at its lowest power state. Even regular hard drives last longer when you're not turning your computer on and off constantly because the mechanical stress of spinning up to 7200RPM and rapidly taking on heat is far worse than holding them at constant, but they usually have a motor / head failure on the next reboot, or the firmware has corrupted itself and isn't regularly reloaded from the drive so of course nothing noticed. I wish I could find the journal paper on powered SSDs but I read it about 6 years ago and have no idea where I found it... basically, with the drive just plugged into an enclosure allowing it to remain in its lowest power state, there's never any lost charge. Even the stray cosmic rays that sometimes flip a bit on RAM modules (oh hi ECC) won't do that to an SSD, and the type you'd be buying for archival has error correction built in anyway. The conclusion was that, assuming a steady power source and safe storage conditions, the only thing that would damage them beyond the ability to store the data they already contained was slow erosion of new channels between layers / traces via spontaneous rare electron tunneling events which would tend towards the shortest path (the spot that was damaged in the last event) and eventually form a resistance free bridge betweeen things that weren't meant to be bridged.
The amount of time that takes even on a high power draw device like a GPU or CPU is long enough that people don't worry about their CPU suffering from "bit rot" and you can usually get any computer running again by fixing whatever other part was messed up. On a low power mode SSD, the time was estimated to be so long that they revised their conclusion on what would practically limit the time data could be kept on a drive to be the eventual expansion of the sun into a red giant and the cooking of the earth that will occur when it's in the middle of a cloud of helium undergoing fusion, although some might start going in as soon as 2 to 3 billion years from random events. Most will be in dumpsters in 10 years because data hoarders decided they needed the next big new thing, regardless of what the medium is, and you don't need to provide power to get most of them to retain data that long.
Mechanical drives are subject to fun things like random magnetic fields messing with them, a slight imbalance or nudge during spin-up when taking out of storage gouging the write heads into the platters, or, the most fun part of all, the cheapo memory on them (either the R/W cache, the nvram that holds SMART data and configuration, or the firmware flash ROM) failing and causing the system they're in to be unable to boot regardless of whether they're an "important" drive. A Shortfall Of Gravitas ( talk) 15:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article claims a glassy carbon write layer but the Verbatim M-Disc webpage ( https://www.verbatim.com/prod/optical-media/m-disc/m-disc-bd-r/branded-surface./ ) mentions an inorganic write layer. What's going on? Are the newer discs made with a newer inorganic write layer material? If so the Wikipedia article should clearly mention newer discs use an inorganic material everywhere the glassy carbon material is mentioned. 2A02:1811:B7B4:E800:ADCB:C604:2AA7:9CF4 ( talk) 11:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On September 2013, it was proposed that this article be moved from Milleniata to M-DISC. The result of the discussion was page moved. |
Too bad this article reads as an advertisement and not even a good one at that. No details on what the differences are and how it works. No info on similar or competing technologies. I came to this article wanting to know what the heck the M-disc logo on my LG WH14NS40 means and this left me with most of my questions unanswered. At least it's notable... :) 71.196.246.113 ( talk) 02:54, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. — Hobart ( talk) 00:34, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
References
The request to rename this article to M-DISC has been carried out. |
Millenniata → M-DISC – The technology (a type of recorder & media currently available in stores) is notable, but the company itself doesn't merit a separate article. — Hobart ( talk) 01:52, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.I think we should have an 'M-Disc alternative' chapter available. Not talking about regular CD/DVD/Blueray, or HDD/SSD/Floppy, or cloud. But more about long term storage products that could compete with M-Disc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.140.111.29 ( talk) 01:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Please add content about prospects for audio CD-R version of this tech. Such recordings seem to currently be particularly vulnerable to bit-rot.- 71.174.177.142 ( talk) 13:56, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on M-DISC. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.mdisc.com/docs/chinalakemillenniatatestreport_mod_04feb2010_a.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
If I did not already know the principles of how information is stored on optical discs, I would not understand this article at all. It is lacking structure and actually also content. User:ScotXW t@lk 09:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Could whoever wrote this tell an actual English speaker what they meant to say so it can be put into English? jae ( talk) 14:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
The last section of the page mentions SSDs out of nowhere, saying that they suffer from bit-rot over time compared to "mechanical". This was mostly spawned from a misinterpretation of a JEDEC report on enterprise drives which had nearly reached their insane lifetime write capacities that usually stretch into 10s of petabytes these days and the effects of storing them at very high temperatures with no power. These are drives that have almost burned out their storage capability anyway, in the sense that the cells have trouble holding a charge. Your consumer drive will never reach this level of usage, unless it's one of the typical bottom-binned models marketed to gamers which can be rated for as low as 300 write cycles and you're constantly reinstalling different games and windows on it. A new drive used to back up data every 6 months or so will probably never lose data in this way.
The more important part, though, is what happens if you DO power it at its lowest power state. Even regular hard drives last longer when you're not turning your computer on and off constantly because the mechanical stress of spinning up to 7200RPM and rapidly taking on heat is far worse than holding them at constant, but they usually have a motor / head failure on the next reboot, or the firmware has corrupted itself and isn't regularly reloaded from the drive so of course nothing noticed. I wish I could find the journal paper on powered SSDs but I read it about 6 years ago and have no idea where I found it... basically, with the drive just plugged into an enclosure allowing it to remain in its lowest power state, there's never any lost charge. Even the stray cosmic rays that sometimes flip a bit on RAM modules (oh hi ECC) won't do that to an SSD, and the type you'd be buying for archival has error correction built in anyway. The conclusion was that, assuming a steady power source and safe storage conditions, the only thing that would damage them beyond the ability to store the data they already contained was slow erosion of new channels between layers / traces via spontaneous rare electron tunneling events which would tend towards the shortest path (the spot that was damaged in the last event) and eventually form a resistance free bridge betweeen things that weren't meant to be bridged.
The amount of time that takes even on a high power draw device like a GPU or CPU is long enough that people don't worry about their CPU suffering from "bit rot" and you can usually get any computer running again by fixing whatever other part was messed up. On a low power mode SSD, the time was estimated to be so long that they revised their conclusion on what would practically limit the time data could be kept on a drive to be the eventual expansion of the sun into a red giant and the cooking of the earth that will occur when it's in the middle of a cloud of helium undergoing fusion, although some might start going in as soon as 2 to 3 billion years from random events. Most will be in dumpsters in 10 years because data hoarders decided they needed the next big new thing, regardless of what the medium is, and you don't need to provide power to get most of them to retain data that long.
Mechanical drives are subject to fun things like random magnetic fields messing with them, a slight imbalance or nudge during spin-up when taking out of storage gouging the write heads into the platters, or, the most fun part of all, the cheapo memory on them (either the R/W cache, the nvram that holds SMART data and configuration, or the firmware flash ROM) failing and causing the system they're in to be unable to boot regardless of whether they're an "important" drive. A Shortfall Of Gravitas ( talk) 15:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article claims a glassy carbon write layer but the Verbatim M-Disc webpage ( https://www.verbatim.com/prod/optical-media/m-disc/m-disc-bd-r/branded-surface./ ) mentions an inorganic write layer. What's going on? Are the newer discs made with a newer inorganic write layer material? If so the Wikipedia article should clearly mention newer discs use an inorganic material everywhere the glassy carbon material is mentioned. 2A02:1811:B7B4:E800:ADCB:C604:2AA7:9CF4 ( talk) 11:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)