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OK, there were 8 prototypes left after cancellation of the program. I guess these just stored. Seems like they would try using them for flight test research or weapons fitting, something. Judging by what I've been able to find, any later use was minor or didn't happen. Is this correct? Thanks. - Fnlayson 15:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Each of the 10 prototypes was built for a particular task
1000, No serial Number, never flew, was simply a static test article, Aberdeen Proving Grounds as of 1982
1001, Ser 66-8826, Ground test vehicle, never flew, Used for various ground, engine and rotor tests, Used for ballistic survivability testing at Rock Island Arsenal, Was in state of dissasembly at Aberdeen proving grounds as of 1982
1002, Ser 66-8827, Flight Development Vehicle, Initial Flying qualities and areodynamics, 1st to fly, Fort Polk Display
1003, Ser 66-8828 Flight Development Vehicle, Envelope Expansion, Crashed, Killing Dave Beil
1004, Ser 66-8829 Weapons Integration Vehicle, Scrapped
1005, Ser 66-8830 Avionics Vehicle, 1st to have the full avionics (IHAS) Fort Rucker, Storage
1006, Ser 66-8831 Weapons Test Vehicle, Used in the Cheyenne / Cobra Flyoff at Hunter Ligget Fort Campbell Display
1007, Ser 66-8832 Missle and night Vision Vehicle, Fastest recorded flight of all prototypes 240 knots, Fort Rucker Display
1008, Ser 66-8833 Avionics Labrotory, never flew, Aberdeen Proving Grounds as of 1982
1009, Ser 66-8834 Flight Development Vehicle, replaced 1003 as the envelope expansion vehicle and was fitted with an F-104 Ejection seat in the front cockpit after the loss of 1003, scrapped
1010, Ser 66-8835 Complete Systems Vehicle, Destroyed in Ames wind tunnel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.166.21.69 ( talk) 08:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hum, AH-56 numbers 1 and 8 never flew. Should this be mentioned in the article like in the infobox or somewhere? - Fnlayson ( talk) 16:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Here's a source that may or may not be worthy, but at least interesting reading.
Can we actually confirm that the Army flight evaluated the Cheyenne, King Cobra and Blackhawk together? I don't have the Landis and Jenkins ref. I never thought the Blackhawk was part of this program "officially" because Lockheed had won out against Sikorsky S-66 for the development contract. So I've thought the KC and B were more or less independent efforts by the two helicopter vendors. -- THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 15:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
On 14 January 1972, the Army established a special task force to conduct a reevaluation of its attack helicopter requirements and to prepare an updated and defensible Materiel Need (MN) document. In the generation of this MN, the Task Force considered field tests, combat experience and computer simulations that have been conducted over the past several years as well as actual flight evaluations of the CHEYENNE and two company-funded prototypes (Bell KING COBRA and Sikorsky BLACKHAWK). The requirements identified for an Advanced Attack Helicopter which could be available in the late 1970's ...
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It says several times that the "the Cheyenne was to have a high-speed dash capability to provide armed escort for the Army's transport helicopters, such as the Bell UH-1 Iroquois", but it never explains why the high speed was needed. "It needs to go 240mp so it can keep up with the 180mp transports" seems strange to many readers. I presume it is so the escort can pull ahead to attack or reconnoiter, and keep up a defensive weave or search pattern while still matching the overall ground speed of the transports. And so once it has blasted the heck out of an enemy it can easily catch back up to the main group without forcing them to slow down and wait. Still its not as obvious as, say, a escort fighter's speed requirement. The AH-54 doesn't have to dogfight anyone, and high speed is actually the bane of escort fighters when they are in transit with the bomber force. They don't zigzag because they want to, they do it to avoid pulling ahead of the bombers, and it means they have to cover more miles to cross the same ground.
Also like to know why none of the pictured aircraft appear to have the described "belly turrets" (really ought to be "ventral turret", it's much less informal sounding). Certainly nothing even close to large enough to contain a "30mm cannon" (again it would be really great to know what cannot they planned to use, because even the smallest and lightest that I know of would require a good sized turret. Were they going to use a ADEN cannon? An all-new short barrel, lightweight design for helicopters? The ADEN and DEFA are literally the only 30mms I can think of from the era. I assume none of the pictures show this turret because they never actually produced a turret, and none of the ten prototypes actually had the turret (I don't think they even had the chin guns). They were flight test models only. So it would be nice if it said somewhere that the armament described was the intended armament, but it was never actually fitted to any of the machines built. I guarantee you right now the readers of this article are squinting at the photos trying to make out where the "belly turret" is, and are unable to see it. Because it is not there.
64.222.86.44 (
talk) 23:06, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
I've created Draft:Advanced Aerial Fire Support System. I think there's more than enough information there already (cribbed from this and other articles) to make a good short article on the AAFSS competition. I have a couple of books that also deal with with the competition that I can try to use also. If anyone would like to help out, it would be much appreciated. BilCat ( talk) 15:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
The Cheyenne had an interesting design requirement that is not mentioned in the article, and for which I do not have a RS; if an RS is found it would be good to add it. The requirement was that the aircraft was to have a ferry range that would allow it to fly direct from California to Hawaii, so that it could quickly self deploy across oceans. This is an interesting reflection of the thinking of the time. Now, the listed range of the aircraft is less than half this required ferry distance, so either the requirement was relaxed or else the range was to have been increased with drop tanks. Tfdavisatsnetnet ( talk) 03:58, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article is rated A-class on Wikipedia's
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OK, there were 8 prototypes left after cancellation of the program. I guess these just stored. Seems like they would try using them for flight test research or weapons fitting, something. Judging by what I've been able to find, any later use was minor or didn't happen. Is this correct? Thanks. - Fnlayson 15:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Each of the 10 prototypes was built for a particular task
1000, No serial Number, never flew, was simply a static test article, Aberdeen Proving Grounds as of 1982
1001, Ser 66-8826, Ground test vehicle, never flew, Used for various ground, engine and rotor tests, Used for ballistic survivability testing at Rock Island Arsenal, Was in state of dissasembly at Aberdeen proving grounds as of 1982
1002, Ser 66-8827, Flight Development Vehicle, Initial Flying qualities and areodynamics, 1st to fly, Fort Polk Display
1003, Ser 66-8828 Flight Development Vehicle, Envelope Expansion, Crashed, Killing Dave Beil
1004, Ser 66-8829 Weapons Integration Vehicle, Scrapped
1005, Ser 66-8830 Avionics Vehicle, 1st to have the full avionics (IHAS) Fort Rucker, Storage
1006, Ser 66-8831 Weapons Test Vehicle, Used in the Cheyenne / Cobra Flyoff at Hunter Ligget Fort Campbell Display
1007, Ser 66-8832 Missle and night Vision Vehicle, Fastest recorded flight of all prototypes 240 knots, Fort Rucker Display
1008, Ser 66-8833 Avionics Labrotory, never flew, Aberdeen Proving Grounds as of 1982
1009, Ser 66-8834 Flight Development Vehicle, replaced 1003 as the envelope expansion vehicle and was fitted with an F-104 Ejection seat in the front cockpit after the loss of 1003, scrapped
1010, Ser 66-8835 Complete Systems Vehicle, Destroyed in Ames wind tunnel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.166.21.69 ( talk) 08:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hum, AH-56 numbers 1 and 8 never flew. Should this be mentioned in the article like in the infobox or somewhere? - Fnlayson ( talk) 16:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Here's a source that may or may not be worthy, but at least interesting reading.
Can we actually confirm that the Army flight evaluated the Cheyenne, King Cobra and Blackhawk together? I don't have the Landis and Jenkins ref. I never thought the Blackhawk was part of this program "officially" because Lockheed had won out against Sikorsky S-66 for the development contract. So I've thought the KC and B were more or less independent efforts by the two helicopter vendors. -- THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 15:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
On 14 January 1972, the Army established a special task force to conduct a reevaluation of its attack helicopter requirements and to prepare an updated and defensible Materiel Need (MN) document. In the generation of this MN, the Task Force considered field tests, combat experience and computer simulations that have been conducted over the past several years as well as actual flight evaluations of the CHEYENNE and two company-funded prototypes (Bell KING COBRA and Sikorsky BLACKHAWK). The requirements identified for an Advanced Attack Helicopter which could be available in the late 1970's ...
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It says several times that the "the Cheyenne was to have a high-speed dash capability to provide armed escort for the Army's transport helicopters, such as the Bell UH-1 Iroquois", but it never explains why the high speed was needed. "It needs to go 240mp so it can keep up with the 180mp transports" seems strange to many readers. I presume it is so the escort can pull ahead to attack or reconnoiter, and keep up a defensive weave or search pattern while still matching the overall ground speed of the transports. And so once it has blasted the heck out of an enemy it can easily catch back up to the main group without forcing them to slow down and wait. Still its not as obvious as, say, a escort fighter's speed requirement. The AH-54 doesn't have to dogfight anyone, and high speed is actually the bane of escort fighters when they are in transit with the bomber force. They don't zigzag because they want to, they do it to avoid pulling ahead of the bombers, and it means they have to cover more miles to cross the same ground.
Also like to know why none of the pictured aircraft appear to have the described "belly turrets" (really ought to be "ventral turret", it's much less informal sounding). Certainly nothing even close to large enough to contain a "30mm cannon" (again it would be really great to know what cannot they planned to use, because even the smallest and lightest that I know of would require a good sized turret. Were they going to use a ADEN cannon? An all-new short barrel, lightweight design for helicopters? The ADEN and DEFA are literally the only 30mms I can think of from the era. I assume none of the pictures show this turret because they never actually produced a turret, and none of the ten prototypes actually had the turret (I don't think they even had the chin guns). They were flight test models only. So it would be nice if it said somewhere that the armament described was the intended armament, but it was never actually fitted to any of the machines built. I guarantee you right now the readers of this article are squinting at the photos trying to make out where the "belly turret" is, and are unable to see it. Because it is not there.
64.222.86.44 (
talk) 23:06, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
I've created Draft:Advanced Aerial Fire Support System. I think there's more than enough information there already (cribbed from this and other articles) to make a good short article on the AAFSS competition. I have a couple of books that also deal with with the competition that I can try to use also. If anyone would like to help out, it would be much appreciated. BilCat ( talk) 15:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
The Cheyenne had an interesting design requirement that is not mentioned in the article, and for which I do not have a RS; if an RS is found it would be good to add it. The requirement was that the aircraft was to have a ferry range that would allow it to fly direct from California to Hawaii, so that it could quickly self deploy across oceans. This is an interesting reflection of the thinking of the time. Now, the listed range of the aircraft is less than half this required ferry distance, so either the requirement was relaxed or else the range was to have been increased with drop tanks. Tfdavisatsnetnet ( talk) 03:58, 2 June 2023 (UTC)