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This has commenced ground works and the building it has replaced has been demolished.
I realise that there are buildings for which the ground works start and then are demolished e.g. - the U2 Tower in Dublin which was demolished at 3 below street level stories and one above including all foundations. It was then replaced with the current Capital Dock scheme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.43.40.68 ( talk) 12:57, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
'Under construction' does not apply to this building. The site has been cleared yes but no work has commenced thus far on the foundations. Until that time this building should not be listed as under construction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:709D:A00:210C:FA1E:487B:656E ( talk) 18:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
I have removed this because is this really a building? Like how Seattle's list of tallest buildings, the Space Needle is not included in the actual listing. Would it be more appropriate on the List of tallest structures in Ireland page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.234.208 ( talk) 18:49, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
I've removed this again from the listings. This should not be included on this page, just as ATC in airports around the world are not included in national listings. The BT Tower in London is a different as it contained office space, a restaurant and tourist related amenities 90.211.124.69 ( talk) 14:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
I would think the Dublin airport is more valid in so far as it has an actual functional purpose for being tall and is used for that administrative and business purpose every single day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.43.40.68 ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I can confirm from the plans available on Cork City Council’s EPlan website that the Wilton development added earlier is in fact 54 metres (I also don’t understand how it could be so tall at only 7 storeys but that is what it said clearly in the documents). How would one go about using that site as a reference? DylanGLC2017 ( talk) 01:15, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I have removed the "approved" projects from the "possible/future buildings which could be among the tallest" sub-section. For several reasons. All informed by the WP:CRYSTAL, WP:RS and WP:LISTCRITERIA guidelines. Namely:
In short: The "approved/proposed buildings [??? storeys] that might perhaps maybe be built sometime in the future" is of limited value to the project. And this list article. Personally I have a bit of problem with "tall[ish] buildings for which construction has started" ( UU building anyone?), but at least a "construction has actually started" criteria is more concrete than "the planning department rubberstamped this drawing 3 years ago" criteria we seemed to have. Guliolopez ( talk) 16:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I feel there should be at least somewhere a note of buildings in planning. Surely people come to this page looking for that exact sort of information! That was why I initially visited the page.
The reason there were a lot of unbuilt buildings on the page previously was because Ireland had the largest bursting of a property bubble in world history.
A building has full planning approval from Dublin City Council after also being appealed and passing through An Bord Pleanala. It will be the tallest on the Island of Ireland at 88m if built and groundworks have started. Not mentioning this point at least somewhere in the article seems to be leaving out quite key information.
It can surely be included in a separate section that has
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
You have misquoted me above in inverted commas.
If €300k plus has been spent on a development stage then it is something more than a "Wet dream" in all seriousness.
I will look at starting a separate WP article containing much of the same information that is contained here including buildings that have no prospect of every being built but have been proposed or planned.
As long as you don't object...
The event I am proposing to have occurred is the planning submission itself rather the completion of the building.
In all honesty I highly doubt the Custom House Tower will ever be built but it is worthy of a mention at least. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 5 September 2019 (UTC) User:Financefactz —Preceding undated comment added 11:49, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
The planning applications do exist. To say they don't exist is absurd. If there is number of reliable references saying a planning application have been submitted. Obviously the buildings don't exist and may never exist and neither of us can predict the future. If it it has clear guidelines such as buildings that have been planned and permission granted then I cannot see what possible problem you would have except for it will take away some popularity from this page.
I will leave your page as is and look at setting up a separate article. FYI have a look at List of tallest buildings in the United Kingdom. You will be unpleasantly surprised if you scroll down to the bottom of the page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
I fully agree with Financefactz on this issue. Three different boxes of texts should exist: proposed, approved, and under construction. Once a project is proposed, it should be placed in the proposal box until approval is guaranteed. If approved, it should be moved to the approved section (until construction commences). If a project is scraped, then simply remove it from the wikitable. Of course, a reputable source should be linked with each submission. This system would give a much wider overview of the current situation regarding tall buildings in Ireland. Many buildings which if built would be the tallest on the island can currently not be seen on this wiki page (Project Waterfront, Cork Port Tower...). There's no harm in adding them in their own section, eventually removing them when the time comes. WikiBanana1412 ( talk) 17:22, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
A commencement notice must be lodged with the authorities when commencing construction on a building in the Republic of Ireland. A lot of tall buildings are starting at the moment so it may be a good resource to use to clarify whether or not a building has started if there is any disagreement (along with other resources).
https://www.localgov.ie/en/bcms Financefactz ( talk) 12:38, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
Skyscrapercity is a good resource to see if a building has actually been completed or commenced in photos and it is usually updated on a bi-weekly basis. Of course, this cannot be used as a citation as it is a message board but it is still a good source of overall information!
For example this week there have been 2 photos posted of the ongoing archaeological dig work on the demolished site of Apollo House. Financefactz ( talk) 12:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
The recently submitted planning applications for this building include a screen and plant and antenna on top of the building. The architectural top of the building in these drawings that they have submitted and been approved by Dublin City Council show that it is 52.1m to the top of the building and 54.1m to the top of the plant shed on top of the building. ' http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00654019.pdf '
Planning application ref: 3911/17 Financefactz ( talk) 09:49, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Some other Dublin buildings
I have looked up Vantage apartments tower and its 46.2m (151.6 feet) according to the planning documents and 16 storeys so doesn't quite meet the criteria
Financefactz (
talk) 12:29, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
The sentinel is 42.70 metres according to recent planning documents and so also doesn't meet the criteria for height and obviously not being completed!
I cannot get at the application for the Plaza apartments tower in Sandyford but as it is residential and only 16 storeys it is unlikely it is 50+ storeys tall.
There are still one or two other buildings in Dublin I need to check to make sure they don't breach the 50 limit.
At least one of those buildings in Belfast is not 50 metres so I will go through and check the smaller ones for accuracy as well.
There are at least 9 buildings I can find in Dublin alone where a planning application has been submitted in 2019 which are at least 50 metres tall so we might have a few u/c coming on stream in the near future.
This list ranks all habitable buildings approved for construction in the Republic of Ireland that will stand at least 50 metres (160 ft) tall. This includes spires and architectural details but does not include antenna masts.
Rank |
Name |
City |
Region/County |
Height (m) |
Floors above ground |
Comment |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | College Square | Dublin 2 | Dublin | 76.95 | 20 | 10 storey residential Tower on top of 10 office block submitted by Marlet and granted permission by DCC in December 2019. |
2 | The Prism | Cork | Cork City | 70 | 15 | Permission granted by Cork City Council in 2019 for a multi-occupancy commercial office building. [1] [2] https://theprismbuilding.ie/about/ |
3 | Railway Gardens | Cork | Cork | 58.5 | 17 | Residential Tower granted permission by ABP in December 2019 as an SHD. [3] |
4 | Clongriffen SHD 2 | Dublin 13 | Dublin | 53.45 and 50 | 16 and 14 | 2 residential towers were granted planning permission by An Bord Pleanala as part of a larger SHD in December 2019. [4] [5] |
5 | Marshall Yards | Dublin 3 | Dublin | 51.97 | 14 | Residential Tower as art of the East Road SHD in the East Wall area of Dublin being developed by Glenveagh plc. Granted permission by ABP in October 2019 as part of a Strategic Housing Development (SHD) submission. [6] [7] |
The following countries have a list of approved for construction buildings on their pages
List of tallest buildings in France
List of tallest buildings in Germany
List of tallest buildings in the United States
List of tallest buildings in the United Kingdom
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
The sources are largely from government agencies (planning authorities) but can always have a newspaper as a second citation if needs be - will leave it there so (although I do disagree). What are we saying qualifies for u/c? If a commencement notice has been lodged is it then u/c? Financefactz ( talk) 13:15, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
I see no problem with an "Approved Section" alongside the "Under Construction" section as long as all the entries are cited and constantly managed. If something that has been approved is cancelled, then it should be immediately removed from the list, as to stop inaccurate clutter. There's no reason why an article called "List of Tallest Buildings in Ireland" shouldn't include Approved and even proposed buildings, as long as they are properly managed and updated if ever they get cancelled. WikiBanana1412 ( talk) 13:43, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
The inclusion criteria for this list as a whole (defined in the lead) is "tallest habitable buildings on the island of Ireland". Where "tallest" is clarified (later in the body) as being "buildings taller than 50m".
"Cancelled" buildings (buildings which do not exist, did not exist, and will never exist) are, by definition, not "habitable". So what's the inclusion criteria for the "cancelled" section?
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that never got planning permission", then that will be an excessive list. All but unmanageable and unverifiable. Bordering on silly.
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that got planning but didn't progress", then that will still be a long list. And, would need to be limited to "unbuilt stuff" that is covered as a group or set in independent reliable sources. (ie: Grouped by sources other than Wikipedia. Per WP:LISTN.)
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that got planning, and work started, but then stopped", then where/how is that defined?
I have looked at other "list of tallest buildings in COUNTRYX" type articles. To see if there is a common/typical inclusion criteria for these types of lists elsewhere. But I note (with some interest) that NO other similar country articles seem to include "lists of buildings that don't/didn't/won't exist" type subsections. And, frankly, I'm not sure why this article should. Guliolopez ( talk) 17:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This has commenced ground works and the building it has replaced has been demolished.
I realise that there are buildings for which the ground works start and then are demolished e.g. - the U2 Tower in Dublin which was demolished at 3 below street level stories and one above including all foundations. It was then replaced with the current Capital Dock scheme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.43.40.68 ( talk) 12:57, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
'Under construction' does not apply to this building. The site has been cleared yes but no work has commenced thus far on the foundations. Until that time this building should not be listed as under construction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:709D:A00:210C:FA1E:487B:656E ( talk) 18:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
I have removed this because is this really a building? Like how Seattle's list of tallest buildings, the Space Needle is not included in the actual listing. Would it be more appropriate on the List of tallest structures in Ireland page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.234.208 ( talk) 18:49, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
I've removed this again from the listings. This should not be included on this page, just as ATC in airports around the world are not included in national listings. The BT Tower in London is a different as it contained office space, a restaurant and tourist related amenities 90.211.124.69 ( talk) 14:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
I would think the Dublin airport is more valid in so far as it has an actual functional purpose for being tall and is used for that administrative and business purpose every single day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.43.40.68 ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I can confirm from the plans available on Cork City Council’s EPlan website that the Wilton development added earlier is in fact 54 metres (I also don’t understand how it could be so tall at only 7 storeys but that is what it said clearly in the documents). How would one go about using that site as a reference? DylanGLC2017 ( talk) 01:15, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I have removed the "approved" projects from the "possible/future buildings which could be among the tallest" sub-section. For several reasons. All informed by the WP:CRYSTAL, WP:RS and WP:LISTCRITERIA guidelines. Namely:
In short: The "approved/proposed buildings [??? storeys] that might perhaps maybe be built sometime in the future" is of limited value to the project. And this list article. Personally I have a bit of problem with "tall[ish] buildings for which construction has started" ( UU building anyone?), but at least a "construction has actually started" criteria is more concrete than "the planning department rubberstamped this drawing 3 years ago" criteria we seemed to have. Guliolopez ( talk) 16:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I feel there should be at least somewhere a note of buildings in planning. Surely people come to this page looking for that exact sort of information! That was why I initially visited the page.
The reason there were a lot of unbuilt buildings on the page previously was because Ireland had the largest bursting of a property bubble in world history.
A building has full planning approval from Dublin City Council after also being appealed and passing through An Bord Pleanala. It will be the tallest on the Island of Ireland at 88m if built and groundworks have started. Not mentioning this point at least somewhere in the article seems to be leaving out quite key information.
It can surely be included in a separate section that has
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
You have misquoted me above in inverted commas.
If €300k plus has been spent on a development stage then it is something more than a "Wet dream" in all seriousness.
I will look at starting a separate WP article containing much of the same information that is contained here including buildings that have no prospect of every being built but have been proposed or planned.
As long as you don't object...
The event I am proposing to have occurred is the planning submission itself rather the completion of the building.
In all honesty I highly doubt the Custom House Tower will ever be built but it is worthy of a mention at least. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 5 September 2019 (UTC) User:Financefactz —Preceding undated comment added 11:49, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
The planning applications do exist. To say they don't exist is absurd. If there is number of reliable references saying a planning application have been submitted. Obviously the buildings don't exist and may never exist and neither of us can predict the future. If it it has clear guidelines such as buildings that have been planned and permission granted then I cannot see what possible problem you would have except for it will take away some popularity from this page.
I will leave your page as is and look at setting up a separate article. FYI have a look at List of tallest buildings in the United Kingdom. You will be unpleasantly surprised if you scroll down to the bottom of the page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
I fully agree with Financefactz on this issue. Three different boxes of texts should exist: proposed, approved, and under construction. Once a project is proposed, it should be placed in the proposal box until approval is guaranteed. If approved, it should be moved to the approved section (until construction commences). If a project is scraped, then simply remove it from the wikitable. Of course, a reputable source should be linked with each submission. This system would give a much wider overview of the current situation regarding tall buildings in Ireland. Many buildings which if built would be the tallest on the island can currently not be seen on this wiki page (Project Waterfront, Cork Port Tower...). There's no harm in adding them in their own section, eventually removing them when the time comes. WikiBanana1412 ( talk) 17:22, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
A commencement notice must be lodged with the authorities when commencing construction on a building in the Republic of Ireland. A lot of tall buildings are starting at the moment so it may be a good resource to use to clarify whether or not a building has started if there is any disagreement (along with other resources).
https://www.localgov.ie/en/bcms Financefactz ( talk) 12:38, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
Skyscrapercity is a good resource to see if a building has actually been completed or commenced in photos and it is usually updated on a bi-weekly basis. Of course, this cannot be used as a citation as it is a message board but it is still a good source of overall information!
For example this week there have been 2 photos posted of the ongoing archaeological dig work on the demolished site of Apollo House. Financefactz ( talk) 12:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
The recently submitted planning applications for this building include a screen and plant and antenna on top of the building. The architectural top of the building in these drawings that they have submitted and been approved by Dublin City Council show that it is 52.1m to the top of the building and 54.1m to the top of the plant shed on top of the building. ' http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00654019.pdf '
Planning application ref: 3911/17 Financefactz ( talk) 09:49, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Some other Dublin buildings
I have looked up Vantage apartments tower and its 46.2m (151.6 feet) according to the planning documents and 16 storeys so doesn't quite meet the criteria
Financefactz (
talk) 12:29, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
The sentinel is 42.70 metres according to recent planning documents and so also doesn't meet the criteria for height and obviously not being completed!
I cannot get at the application for the Plaza apartments tower in Sandyford but as it is residential and only 16 storeys it is unlikely it is 50+ storeys tall.
There are still one or two other buildings in Dublin I need to check to make sure they don't breach the 50 limit.
At least one of those buildings in Belfast is not 50 metres so I will go through and check the smaller ones for accuracy as well.
There are at least 9 buildings I can find in Dublin alone where a planning application has been submitted in 2019 which are at least 50 metres tall so we might have a few u/c coming on stream in the near future.
This list ranks all habitable buildings approved for construction in the Republic of Ireland that will stand at least 50 metres (160 ft) tall. This includes spires and architectural details but does not include antenna masts.
Rank |
Name |
City |
Region/County |
Height (m) |
Floors above ground |
Comment |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | College Square | Dublin 2 | Dublin | 76.95 | 20 | 10 storey residential Tower on top of 10 office block submitted by Marlet and granted permission by DCC in December 2019. |
2 | The Prism | Cork | Cork City | 70 | 15 | Permission granted by Cork City Council in 2019 for a multi-occupancy commercial office building. [1] [2] https://theprismbuilding.ie/about/ |
3 | Railway Gardens | Cork | Cork | 58.5 | 17 | Residential Tower granted permission by ABP in December 2019 as an SHD. [3] |
4 | Clongriffen SHD 2 | Dublin 13 | Dublin | 53.45 and 50 | 16 and 14 | 2 residential towers were granted planning permission by An Bord Pleanala as part of a larger SHD in December 2019. [4] [5] |
5 | Marshall Yards | Dublin 3 | Dublin | 51.97 | 14 | Residential Tower as art of the East Road SHD in the East Wall area of Dublin being developed by Glenveagh plc. Granted permission by ABP in October 2019 as part of a Strategic Housing Development (SHD) submission. [6] [7] |
The following countries have a list of approved for construction buildings on their pages
List of tallest buildings in France
List of tallest buildings in Germany
List of tallest buildings in the United States
List of tallest buildings in the United Kingdom
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Financefactz ( talk • contribs)
The sources are largely from government agencies (planning authorities) but can always have a newspaper as a second citation if needs be - will leave it there so (although I do disagree). What are we saying qualifies for u/c? If a commencement notice has been lodged is it then u/c? Financefactz ( talk) 13:15, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
I see no problem with an "Approved Section" alongside the "Under Construction" section as long as all the entries are cited and constantly managed. If something that has been approved is cancelled, then it should be immediately removed from the list, as to stop inaccurate clutter. There's no reason why an article called "List of Tallest Buildings in Ireland" shouldn't include Approved and even proposed buildings, as long as they are properly managed and updated if ever they get cancelled. WikiBanana1412 ( talk) 13:43, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
The inclusion criteria for this list as a whole (defined in the lead) is "tallest habitable buildings on the island of Ireland". Where "tallest" is clarified (later in the body) as being "buildings taller than 50m".
"Cancelled" buildings (buildings which do not exist, did not exist, and will never exist) are, by definition, not "habitable". So what's the inclusion criteria for the "cancelled" section?
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that never got planning permission", then that will be an excessive list. All but unmanageable and unverifiable. Bordering on silly.
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that got planning but didn't progress", then that will still be a long list. And, would need to be limited to "unbuilt stuff" that is covered as a group or set in independent reliable sources. (ie: Grouped by sources other than Wikipedia. Per WP:LISTN.)
If it's "every single building [that was planned to be >50m] that got planning, and work started, but then stopped", then where/how is that defined?
I have looked at other "list of tallest buildings in COUNTRYX" type articles. To see if there is a common/typical inclusion criteria for these types of lists elsewhere. But I note (with some interest) that NO other similar country articles seem to include "lists of buildings that don't/didn't/won't exist" type subsections. And, frankly, I'm not sure why this article should. Guliolopez ( talk) 17:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)