Should we differentiate between "actual" and prototype vehicles in the Launch statistics table?

Here is what the first table may look like:

Redacted II ( talk) 11:41, 8 July 2023 (UTC) reply

[1] https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/faa-no-spacex-starship-launch-soon-18261658.php therefore I think that graph should be removed. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 15:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC) reply

The title of this section is misleading. As of today, the FAA has not approved a second flight yet - but that approval could come any day. It is not required or even expected until shortly before the launch anyway. -- mfb ( talk) 01:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC) reply

I don't think that's going to happen. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 02:23, 7 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Permission to fly wasn't granted until 6 days before IFT-1 (and 3 days before the first attempt). Removing the graph because they don't have approval would make no sense whatsoever. Redacted II ( talk) 14:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Ok, when is the third launch going to happen? Death Editor 2 ( talk) 15:42, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

As far as we know, flights 2 and 3 are planned for 2023.

Therefore, there are no grounds to change the graph. Redacted II ( talk) 16:09, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Are you going to keep using this argument until it's new year's eve? Death Editor 2 ( talk) 17:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

With New Year's eve being more than 3 months away and the precedence of flights happening days after receipt of permit, I would say to keep the table as is for now. Lklundin ( talk) 18:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

By New Years Eve, the chart will have been updated to show 0 planned for 2023 (as no more launches will be planned for the year). But it would be foolish to do that now. Redacted II ( talk) 22:40, 14 September 2023 (UTC) reply

the second launch is not going to happen much less the third. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:47, 25 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Do you have a reliable source that states "The second flight of Starship won't happen"?

Please, don't make claims without anything to back them. Redacted II ( talk) 20:27, 25 September 2023 (UTC) reply

[2] https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/spacex-s-starship-still-needs-wildlife-agency-review-to-resume-launch-1.1973066 I have this, and also when is the mysterious third starship test flight happening? I still hadn't gotten an answer for that. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 23:06, 25 September 2023 (UTC) reply

That's just saying the launch license hasn't been granted yet. It doesn't state "Launch isn't happening this year". Redacted II ( talk) 12:14, 26 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Answer my question, when is this mysterious third test flight happening? Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:04, 5 October 2023 (UTC) reply

NET Q4 2023. Redacted II ( talk) 20:29, 5 October 2023 (UTC) reply

and may I ask for your source for this claim? Death Editor 2 ( talk) 20:54, 5 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Sure. The NASA Commercial LEO Development page for SpaceX had the first payload Q1 2024 (the site was taken down later, or at least the bookmark I had made is now broken).

The order of flight is S24->S25->S26->28, therefore, flight 3 is Q4 2023.

But this is just a waste of time. Out of the 4 editors to comment here (including you and me), 3 have sided against you. Redacted II ( talk) 21:32, 5 October 2023 (UTC) reply

You are using a site that (in your own words) has been taken down for your source? Lol, imao. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 21:45, 5 October 2023 (UTC) reply

(Moving to the left) I don't see how flight 4 planned for Q1 2024 would imply flight 3 to happen in 2023. If the second flight is successful, it's even possible SpaceX does not launch S26 at all and goes directly to S28. A third flight in 2023 looks very unlikely now, but I don't mind either way for the graph. -- mfb ( talk) 01:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

it's not going to happen so why are you pretending that the third flight will happen? Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:41, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Do you have a source that states the third flight will be in 2024?

There isn't any indicator that flight 3 won't happen this year, so until otherwise stated, the graph should show 2 flights planned for this year. Redacted II ( talk) 18:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

we have been over this, and [3] https://gizmodo.com/environmental-review-delay-spacex-starship-launch-1850853128 this and [4] https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/spacex-s-starship-still-needs-wildlife-agency-review-to-resume-launch-1.1973066 this Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Yes, and as I said on September 26, 2023 "That's just saying the launch license hasn't been granted yet. It doesn't state "Launch isn't happening this year"".

Oh, and:

Do you have a reliable source that directly states "there will only be two flights in 2023"?

I'd love to see one. Redacted II ( talk) 16:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[ reply reply

1. the first flight was called the SpaceX Starship Integrated Flight Test.

2. I don't, but I do have a source that says the next test flight might happen in 2024 that you removed for some reason. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 16:53, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

So, you admitted today that you have no source that states "there will be only two flights in 2023", only sources that state that IFT-2 may not happen this year. Redacted II ( talk) 19:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I said that the second flight is an extremely unlikely maybe, the third flight is still not happening. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 19:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Now your back to Original Research.

I'd also like to warn you about Wikipedia:BLUDGEON (where you repeat the same point during an argument). I can't really blame you for doing it (as I've done it many times before), but it can get you blocked.

Finally,

Please. Stop wasting both of our times. You have no sources, and a consensus disagreeing with you. Continuing to try to push the narrative of "IFT-3 isn't happening this year" is vandalism. Redacted II ( talk) 19:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

You are also breaking Wikipedia:BLUDGEON so let he without sin cast the first stone. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 19:33, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Well, I am responding to you, so...

And also, Wikipedia:Advice for hotheads#You cannot argue Wikipedia into capitulation. Arguing the same point "FWS delay, therefore IFT-3 2024" won't get you what you want. Redacted II ( talk) 19:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

it's foolish to treat IFT-3 in 2023 as a foregone conclusion, when IFT-2 might not happen in 2023. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 20:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

for all your talk of supporting 'the status quo' you seem ken to be removing the sourced 'likely 2024' from the IFT-2 section. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 16:14, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Which was added in contradiction of the consensus created here. Redacted II ( talk) 20:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

yeah sure buddy. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 20:21, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Given that the third test flight is unsourced, I have made the decision to remove it, however I will put it back if consensus says I must put it back. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 17:19, 6 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I'll do this: I'll add a note to the IFT-2 flight date stating that it may happen in 2024, with you sources attached. Redacted II ( talk) 20:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

reasonable. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 20:46, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Now stop removing IFT-3.

(I'm working out how to add in the note right now) Redacted II ( talk) 20:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I can't remember how to add a note, so it'll have to be direct text. Redacted II ( talk) 20:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

acceptable. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

If you know how to add a note, please do so.

If your willing to accept this as a final solution (and no one else disagrees), I'll withdraw my complaint at DRN. Redacted II ( talk) 20:59, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

That wasn't the deal. Please self-revert Redacted II ( talk) 21:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

To clarify:

If you don't remove the second planned flight for 2023, the note for the potential 2024 launch date is kept.

Is that acceptable? Redacted II ( talk) 21:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC) reply

found on different page - delete this topic

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.18.81.80 ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 7 September 2023 (UTC) reply