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I'm confused too - doesn't the Tajik text of the Decree below (Source: http://www.president.tj/qaror04_297htm.htm) say that
Qullai Lenin becomes - Qullai Abūalī ibni Sino
Qullai Revolyutsiya - Qullai Istiqlol
a third peak of 6910 m height - Qullai Abūabdulloi Rūdakī ?
Now the Russian text of the presidential decree No. 297 of July 4, 2006 is in under http://www.president.tj/rus/novostee_050706a.htm, also clearly stating that Lenin Peak becomes Avicenna Peak and Revolution Peak becomes Independence Peak. -- Holger Finken 06:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
---
Decree of July 4, 2006, in Tajik:
ҚАРОРИ ҲУКУМАТИ ҶУМҲУРИИ ТОҶИКИСТОН / ПОСТАНОВЛЕНИЕ ПРАВИТЕЛЬСТВО РЕСПУБЛИКИ ТАДЖИКИСТАН
аз 4 июли соли 2006 шаҳри Душанбе № 297
Дар бораи номивазкунӣ ва номгузории қуллаҳо
"... 1. Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд."
-- Holger Finken 15:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I am confused. What is the status of the name Pik Achiktash, mentioned lower down the article? This was believed by some to be the new name for Pik Lenina. Viewfinder 14:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 22:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
It is unclear that Independence Peak is the correct name of the peak, see a Tajik presidential web page for evidence to the contrary. Despite reports from the Russian media, I do not think we should support that name unless or until it is supported by an official Tajik source. Viewfinder 01:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The true problem is Avicenna here. IMO Avicenna Peak would be wrong. It is the modern proper name of the peak, and should not be latinized: Abu Ali ibn Sina Peak or Ibn Sina Peak. Also, I don't understand the reason of hurry in the renaming of the article. THe old title may live for some time until the smoke dissolves. After all, " Lenin Peak" is the preferred English name so far.
And by the way, a quite notable Independence Peak (1,742') is already known in California for quite some time. `' mikka (t) 19:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I've sent an e-mail to Tajik Presindent's press office, although I have little hope for reply, but who knows... `' mikka (t) 21:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The link to the Tajikistan's President web page does not produce the referenced Presidential decrees -- either in Tajik or in Russian. They must have been removed from the database during one of the updates. Can you find a "live" reference for these important facts about peak names? -- Zlerman ( talk) 02:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
According to the Statistical Yearbook of Tajikistan (2006 edition), Avicenna Peak (Qullai Abuali ibni Sino) is 7134 m high and Independence Peak (Qullai Istiklol) is 6974 m high. Comparison with the 1993 yearbook (published in 1995), where the Soviet names are still given, shows that Avicenna Peak (7134 m) is in fact Lenin Peak (7134 m), and that Independence Peak (6974 m) is what used to be called Revolution Peak (Qullai Inkilob, 6974 m). Since the Presidential decrees that deal with renaming are not immediately accessible on the web (see "Dead links" above), I will try to use this information from authoritative Tajik sources in order to update the relevant articles on Tajikistan mountains. -- Zlerman ( talk) 06:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
"Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд. "
Alefbe ( talk) 16:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
We have agreed after long debates that the name of the article stays as "Lenin Peak" from considerations of accepted usage in English, although the official name of the peak as of July 4, 2006 is Avicenna Peak (or preferably Ibn Sina Peak as some have argued -- see this talk page above). Alefbe on May 15 changed the opening sentence of the article so that we now have an article called "Lenin Peak" that starts with "Avicenna Peak (...), formerly known as Lenin Peak...". This does not look logical to me: I prefer the first sentence to start with the words "Lenin Peak" -- as in the article title -- and introduce Avicenna (or Ibn Sina) later -- as in the earlier version.
Can we have some discussion on this? -- Zlerman ( talk) 02:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
The picture "Lenin Peak from the trail Irkeshtam–Sary Tash (Tajikistan)" is take in Kyrgyzstan. The Sary Tash village is in Kyrgyzstan, on the way Osh-Irkhestam.(..I'm italian) -- Betta27 ( talk) 07:04, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
The article was moved from Lenin Peak to Ibn Sina Peak without any discussion on 16:59, 21 September 2008 by a user who has since been banned indefinitely. There is no question that Lenin Peak is the more widely accepted name in English. Moreover, on a recent trip to Kyrgyzstan, I discovered that the Kyrgyz continue to refer to it as Lenin Peak (actually claiming it as theirs) and latest official maps of Kyrgyzstan show the mountain as Lenin Peak. Since the name Ibn Sina Peak comes unilaterally from Tajik legislation and reflects neither Kyrgyz views nor common English usage, I propose to move the article back from Ibn Sina Peak to Lenin Peak (with a redirect from Ibn Sina Peak to Lenin Peak).
Please discuss below (Support/Oppose): Lenin Peak is official name used in Kyrgystan, and this name is well known in World. So, there're no condition for change article' name to Ibn Sina Peak. Aotearoa ( talk) 07:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
ibn sina peak to lenin peak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.187.171.152 ( talk) 10:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 07:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Ibn Sina Peak →
Lenin Peak — The name of the peak has been Lenin Peak for decades, and is still the most used name in English. The official name of the peak in Kyrgyzstan is still Lenin Peak (peak lies on the border between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan). "Ibn Sina Peak" name is only used in Tajikistan.
Vanjagenije (
talk) 00:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Support If the peak is on the border between 2 countries then I'm not sure how we decide which one is the "official" name, but if one of the 2 countries still uses the name by which it was normally known in English over the past few decades then we should go for this name. PatGallacher ( talk) 00:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Support After reading all past discussions on this issue, I support the rename for these reasons:
The other names can of course be mentioned in the opening paragraph and perhaps we use Ibn Sina Peak as the other name for the infobox. RedWolf ( talk) 06:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
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This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
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I'm confused too - doesn't the Tajik text of the Decree below (Source: http://www.president.tj/qaror04_297htm.htm) say that
Qullai Lenin becomes - Qullai Abūalī ibni Sino
Qullai Revolyutsiya - Qullai Istiqlol
a third peak of 6910 m height - Qullai Abūabdulloi Rūdakī ?
Now the Russian text of the presidential decree No. 297 of July 4, 2006 is in under http://www.president.tj/rus/novostee_050706a.htm, also clearly stating that Lenin Peak becomes Avicenna Peak and Revolution Peak becomes Independence Peak. -- Holger Finken 06:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
---
Decree of July 4, 2006, in Tajik:
ҚАРОРИ ҲУКУМАТИ ҶУМҲУРИИ ТОҶИКИСТОН / ПОСТАНОВЛЕНИЕ ПРАВИТЕЛЬСТВО РЕСПУБЛИКИ ТАДЖИКИСТАН
аз 4 июли соли 2006 шаҳри Душанбе № 297
Дар бораи номивазкунӣ ва номгузории қуллаҳо
"... 1. Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд."
-- Holger Finken 15:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I am confused. What is the status of the name Pik Achiktash, mentioned lower down the article? This was believed by some to be the new name for Pik Lenina. Viewfinder 14:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 22:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
It is unclear that Independence Peak is the correct name of the peak, see a Tajik presidential web page for evidence to the contrary. Despite reports from the Russian media, I do not think we should support that name unless or until it is supported by an official Tajik source. Viewfinder 01:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The true problem is Avicenna here. IMO Avicenna Peak would be wrong. It is the modern proper name of the peak, and should not be latinized: Abu Ali ibn Sina Peak or Ibn Sina Peak. Also, I don't understand the reason of hurry in the renaming of the article. THe old title may live for some time until the smoke dissolves. After all, " Lenin Peak" is the preferred English name so far.
And by the way, a quite notable Independence Peak (1,742') is already known in California for quite some time. `' mikka (t) 19:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I've sent an e-mail to Tajik Presindent's press office, although I have little hope for reply, but who knows... `' mikka (t) 21:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The link to the Tajikistan's President web page does not produce the referenced Presidential decrees -- either in Tajik or in Russian. They must have been removed from the database during one of the updates. Can you find a "live" reference for these important facts about peak names? -- Zlerman ( talk) 02:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
According to the Statistical Yearbook of Tajikistan (2006 edition), Avicenna Peak (Qullai Abuali ibni Sino) is 7134 m high and Independence Peak (Qullai Istiklol) is 6974 m high. Comparison with the 1993 yearbook (published in 1995), where the Soviet names are still given, shows that Avicenna Peak (7134 m) is in fact Lenin Peak (7134 m), and that Independence Peak (6974 m) is what used to be called Revolution Peak (Qullai Inkilob, 6974 m). Since the Presidential decrees that deal with renaming are not immediately accessible on the web (see "Dead links" above), I will try to use this information from authoritative Tajik sources in order to update the relevant articles on Tajikistan mountains. -- Zlerman ( talk) 06:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
"Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд. "
Alefbe ( talk) 16:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
We have agreed after long debates that the name of the article stays as "Lenin Peak" from considerations of accepted usage in English, although the official name of the peak as of July 4, 2006 is Avicenna Peak (or preferably Ibn Sina Peak as some have argued -- see this talk page above). Alefbe on May 15 changed the opening sentence of the article so that we now have an article called "Lenin Peak" that starts with "Avicenna Peak (...), formerly known as Lenin Peak...". This does not look logical to me: I prefer the first sentence to start with the words "Lenin Peak" -- as in the article title -- and introduce Avicenna (or Ibn Sina) later -- as in the earlier version.
Can we have some discussion on this? -- Zlerman ( talk) 02:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
The picture "Lenin Peak from the trail Irkeshtam–Sary Tash (Tajikistan)" is take in Kyrgyzstan. The Sary Tash village is in Kyrgyzstan, on the way Osh-Irkhestam.(..I'm italian) -- Betta27 ( talk) 07:04, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
The article was moved from Lenin Peak to Ibn Sina Peak without any discussion on 16:59, 21 September 2008 by a user who has since been banned indefinitely. There is no question that Lenin Peak is the more widely accepted name in English. Moreover, on a recent trip to Kyrgyzstan, I discovered that the Kyrgyz continue to refer to it as Lenin Peak (actually claiming it as theirs) and latest official maps of Kyrgyzstan show the mountain as Lenin Peak. Since the name Ibn Sina Peak comes unilaterally from Tajik legislation and reflects neither Kyrgyz views nor common English usage, I propose to move the article back from Ibn Sina Peak to Lenin Peak (with a redirect from Ibn Sina Peak to Lenin Peak).
Please discuss below (Support/Oppose): Lenin Peak is official name used in Kyrgystan, and this name is well known in World. So, there're no condition for change article' name to Ibn Sina Peak. Aotearoa ( talk) 07:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
ibn sina peak to lenin peak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.187.171.152 ( talk) 10:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 07:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Ibn Sina Peak →
Lenin Peak — The name of the peak has been Lenin Peak for decades, and is still the most used name in English. The official name of the peak in Kyrgyzstan is still Lenin Peak (peak lies on the border between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan). "Ibn Sina Peak" name is only used in Tajikistan.
Vanjagenije (
talk) 00:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Support If the peak is on the border between 2 countries then I'm not sure how we decide which one is the "official" name, but if one of the 2 countries still uses the name by which it was normally known in English over the past few decades then we should go for this name. PatGallacher ( talk) 00:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Support After reading all past discussions on this issue, I support the rename for these reasons:
The other names can of course be mentioned in the opening paragraph and perhaps we use Ibn Sina Peak as the other name for the infobox. RedWolf ( talk) 06:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
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