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Shouldn´t Puerto Rico be considered part of Latin America? I don´t see its data in any chart. Joevicentini ( talk) 02:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Now I am not questioning his work, but I don't think this information regarding subdivisions in Latin America should NOT be in top of the page because of what one person believes. It can be put in the Demographics section as a side note possibly. Let me know what you all think? Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 23:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I wrote the new Gini Coeficent in the page and someone deleted it... I think is quite unfair because I spent a lot of time searching for the new Coeficent. Moreover I don't even understand why this person deleted the current information, I mean, it's always the best thing having the newest information, isn't?
Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fettch ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
At the moment, the article contradicts itself. In the Criollos/ whites sub-section of the "Difference between race and ethnicity" portion of the article it says "Whites make up the majority of the population of Argentina, Costa Rica and Uruguay, and are also a significant demographic group in Brazil, Cuba, Chile, Puerto Rico". However, in the table for the Ethnic distribution section it states that Puerto Rico is 74.8% white and Brazil is 53.8% white, thus whites constitute a majority, not just a "significant demographic group" in both of these countries. In an effort to be consistent, I have changed the wording of the Criollos/ whites section to include Puerto Rico and Brazil as countries with a white majority. Feel free to change it back if you find a source that contradicts this, however at the moment the source for the table is the mos comprehensive provided.
Emperornik ( talk) 08:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I think the table should be remove entirely as it confuses the issue more than it helps. For example, peer reviewed genetic studies have shown that a majority of Puerto Ricans have amerindian mitochondrial DNA and European Y chromosomes, making them genetically mestizos. Yet the chart lists Puerto Rico as having no mestizos. What is true is that a majority of Puerto Ricans self identify as white or criollo. Situations like this repeat themselves over and over again across the region. There is no workable classification system for the race or ethnic origin of the people of the region unless you focus on only 1)self identification or 2)genetics, and be very clear what you are focusing on. Even then, a table such as the one I continue to remove does not follow provide useable information, because the categories that people use to define themselves very greatly from country to country. People will respond differently depending on the situation and the exact wording of the question as well. The use of Criollo in many countries now varies greatly from its original use as a person born in the Americas to parents of european descent. In fact, in Puerto Rico, many people of visible african anscestry self identify as criollo, and trigueno, but when the us census taker comes around, they choose white or other. The table gives those without other knowlege of the reason a very misleading impression of the population, and so I am removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.205.66.235 ( talk) 11:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Considering that the majority of the countries have high HDI, and that there is only one country (Haiti) in a severe situation, I guess that this topic is just supporting the old stereotype of Latin America. In fact, Brazil is today one of the BRIC economies, Argentina has a very high standard of living, such as Chile (a country that has been growing very fast since 90´s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.101.155.102 ( talk) 12:03, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Should Hispanic neighborhoods in anglophone countries in North America be considered part of Latin America or not? The question came to mind when I pointed out that the Southwestern US was once part of the Spanish Empire, which led me to draw Florida into the exclusion as well. Also, there's Quebec, which is French speaking, and I noticed that places such as Miami, Los Angeles, and New York have large Spanish speaking communities, so Spanish might be prevalent in some of those neighborhoods and areas. 192.12.88.7 ( talk) 04:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The image labeled "Vicente Fox A white Latin American." has a very racist comment. It indicates that there are little or no "white" Latin Americans. Also, the term "white" is not appropriate and even offensive. I suggest "Caucasian" be used instead. Melara... ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC).
Shouldn't Quebec be part of Latin America? Or shouldn't it at least be mentioned as 'sometimes included'? Zazaban ( talk) 09:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
SamEV recommended that is should explain my reasoning for using the CIA numbers. They are more recent and adding them to the table will in no way damage the outcome of the other nations. It will effect the total percentage but this is because it is more accurate for Mexico in particular so it can work because there is no binding date that all the countires surveys were taken anyways. I hope this helps. Rahlgd ( talk) 10:43, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
I think you have a good idea. I have actually been working on a completely re-done version with updated sources which i will post when completed which hopefully can be by the end of the day. I think that for the spaces with no information instead of having a 0.0% in the spaces there should be a N/A put in it's place because countries like Chile don't have Zambo as an available choice in their survey but that doesn't mean the country has no Zambos. Also, for Brazil, not every pardo is a mulatto (some are mestizo or even zambo or mixed with asian because pardo is just the general term used for racially mixed) so we shouldn't have the pardo population percentage tagged as mulatto, rather we should have a multiracial category that mainly Brazil would fill as Brazil is far more mixed than most of the other countries. About the CIA statistics on Mexico, they have not been exactly the same for the last two decades, but they have been very similar with usually only a 1 to 3 percentage point difference, usually in the Amerindian population due to a phenomenon occurring in Mexico's indigenous population. In most societies when people become more developed their birth rates lower, but for Mexico's indigenous population they have been maintaining they're high birthrate even as they attain higher incomes and move to urban or suburban environments. Meaning that Mexico's indigenous population is increasing with new development and wealth even though historically based common ideas of demographics say that they were originally projected to decrease. According to the the demographics of Mexico from the CIA world fact book in 1997 the racial make up of Mexico was 28% Amerindian, 11 % White, 59% Mestizo and 1% other (mostly Black although it seems like there should be more Asian too). Rahlgd ( talk) 20:21, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
As usual, the racist idiot who intepreted the racial composition of Chileans who came to the conclusion that 52% of Chileans are of pure European descent after misinterpreting some University study, has had his racist rubbish spread to all articles were the ethnic origins of the Chilean population lie. The twit who has publish the ridiculous information have misinformed others of the truth. Most Chileans, indeed around 90% DO have some, if not a lot of Amerindian blood. However, the ration might bee 52% European and 44% Amerindian in the average Chilean, even if the percentage is very small amongst the upper classes. However, most Chileans, not even half, are anywhere near pure European-descent. The original upper-class married Incan princesses and cacique's daughters, and the sebsequent Spaniards and Eruopean immigrants intermarried amongst the descendents. Wikipedia should portray the truth, not some racists' fantasy based on ignorance and proved by biased university research. 86.160.120.47 ( talk) 20:51, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm confused what you mean. You say that i'm racist against amerindians because I said that Chile is 65% white? And then you say i have an agenda against whites because i said that Mexico's indigenous population is 30%? All information i have come across has stated that this is true (regarding Mexico). If anyone has an agenda it is you, Covarrubias, you are the one who went and falsely inflated Mexico's white population in numerous articles dsepite the sources clearly indicating that you were wrong. I have seen sources that say that Mexico has more indigenous than Whites but not the other way around. I have just heard you say this. You blatantly added false uncited information to make it look like there were more whites so if anyone has an agenda it is you Covarrubias. I'm sorry if i offended anyone with the information i posted, i got it from trying to find the most recently updated statistcs on each country. If you think the information is incorrect than I can simply use the CIA as the source for all of them, while it's not the most recent source it is more recent than the informaton currently being used. I'm also so sick of you saying than i have some sort of personal agenda, Covarrubias everytime i say something in good light about amerindians you don't agree with. It seems like you just have some problem with amerindians and don't even start saying i'm trying to promote some pro-nahuatl agenda, i'm not even half indigenous. I'm a quarter Japanese, half White (dutch, spanish, german and some italian) and only a quarter amerindian and of that i'm not even Nahuatl i'm Zapotec so just stop these personal attacks. You are the one that constantly removes Indigenous things from the Mexico article and tried to say they were'nt culturally relavent. Also you still never answererd for your lying and blatant manipultion of data in the ethnography section in the Mexico article. So don't be such a hypocrite, it is not wanted here nor is your rude, condescending attitude. Rahlgd ( talk) 20:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed that you, Covarrubias again tried to inflate the white popultion by changing it from 16% to 17% thats just childish. Please don't do it again and stop inserting theses small lies that you think we won't notice. Rahlgd ( talk) 20:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
The description of GDP for the Largest Economic cities section says, "GDP figures are estimated and expressed in USD, using purchasing power parity (PPP)exchange rates:" This is how GDP is usually described in economics textbooks and various reports.
However that actual number for Sao Paulo in the table is $25,675. This is waaay to high for Brazil. Checking the referenced source: http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/presidencia/noticias/noticia_impressao.php?id_noticia=1288 on table 10, I see that is shows the "Produto Interno Bruto" or PIB (Portugese for GDP) is R$ 25,675 in 2006.
So not to rub it in, but that 25,675 number is wrong at least three ways: It is 4 years old, it is in Brazilian currency instead of USD, and it is not adjusted for PPP.
I didn't check the other figures in the table.
MountainMeadows ( talk) 01:19, 13 April 2010 (UTC) MountainMeadows
The following content was added recently, but it requires sources and copyediting.
"During much of the 19th century Latin American countries saw strifes between liberal and conservative political factions. Initially conservatives did succesfully gain power in countries like Chile, Argentina. During the second half of the 19th century some countries shifted towars liberal goverments while in some other like Mexico conservative regimes consolidated. By 1899 a large conservative-liberal war broke out and while in Colombia the conservatives won the war the Mexican Revolution that begun in 1911 wiped out an vestige of Porfirio Diaz authoritarian conservative regime."
SamEV ( talk) 19:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
There's a problem with green text leaking over the page (from economy down)... the font tags seem OK but there's still a problem? Haven't been able to find the problem unfortunately, anyone else want to try?
James ( talk) 10:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a table in the article that says that the ethnic distribution in Brazil is: 53.8% White, 39.1% Mulatto, 6.2% Black and 0.4% Amerindian. There is a huge mistake in it: there is 39.1 BROWN, and not "Mulatto". In Brazil, the "Pardo" (or in English: "Brown") does NOT mean "Mulatto". It is a broader classification that includes Mulatto, Cabloco (that is, "Mestizo", or "Indian-European descendant") and in a lesser presence, the Cafuzo. That means that a Brown Brazilian will almost always be a "Caboclo" or "Mestizo" if he is from the Northeast and North and a "Mulatto" if he comes from the Southeast. For a better explanation and with sources, see Brazil#Demographics. Regards, -- Lecen ( talk) 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello there. User:Jesusmariajalisco has just reversed a lot of edits I have made to this article under the pretense that these constitute "vandalism" and that they were not properly referenced. I have to say that these two accusations are false. First they are clearly not vandalism; I'm not in Wikipedia to vandalize articles, as you can see from my contribution history. Second, all of my edits have been properly referenced with authoritative sources, such as the IMF. I ask User:Jesusmariajalisco to please take greater care when reversing any future edits to this article and to exercise caution before launching false accusations against another user. Have a good day. Pristino ( talk) 18:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
In Mexico the amerindian population is 30 percent, this number is often underestimated because in terms of preserving languages, religions, and traditions the indigenous population in Mexico is 13 percent. The actual indigenous population of mexico is 30 percent, just because a person of full-blooded amerindian descent is completely hispanicized does not mean they aren't amerindian. For example; an African american is not considered white or mulatto just because they speak english and are christian... Michael jordan was not English. Why on earth would an amerindian be denied their heritage? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juleon Powe ( talk • contribs) 23:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
There is a large mention of diseases brought by the europeans in the colonization section of this page, however, there is no mention of mass murder don by the Europeans. In a paper on world war two it would be unacceptable to not include the holocaust, so why not here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juleon Powe ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
The table of percentages is wrong, in Perú there are more percentages of asians that in Argentina.
You forget Canada. see Québec
The demographic chart is incorrect, nearly 10% of Nicaragua's population is of African descent. And more than 14% is of European descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.199.64 ( talk) 03:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I have changed recently the infobox about Brazilian ethnic groups since it says that it has 39% Mulattoes. It is clearly a mistake since it makes a confusion over the Portuguese word "Pardo" that translated to English means "Brown". However, "Pardo" is not simply a mulatto, but all mixed-race Brazilians.
This well explained in the article about Brazil (See Brazil#Demographics):
Enciclopédia Barsa v.4, p. 230
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).My edits correcting that mistake were reverted by user SamEV (Here: [2]) and the only explanation he gave was that "please desist from such ridiculous changes". I explained to him why I made the edit in his talk page (Here: [3] and not only he did not bother to answer me he also erased whati I wrote (Here: [4]) with the explanation that he was "removing nonsense".
Not only he did that, but he also, once gain, reverted my edit (Here: [5]) explaining that he was "reverting good faith but ridiculous edit again". As all can see, his behavior in at least unconstructive and at most disruptive. He has been rude withou reason and reverted my edits even though the main article about the country says otherwise. -- Lecen ( talk) 01:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I want to make an outraegous comment... this artificial discussion seem to fall in the typical Brazilian racism against blacks and mulattoes. Why to add a whole new category (such as "pardo") just because some author use that classification? Seems ridiculous. I agree with SamEV. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 01:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I've just created a Latin Americans article, primarily derived from the Latin America#Demographics section of this article. As I added a "Main" template in this section, redirecting to the new article, I guess it is time to cut some paragraphs/photos/tables from this extensive section.
Furthermore, I'd be happy to count with your help in developing the Latin Americans new article.
Salut, -- IANVS ( talk | cont) 18:55, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
I changed the statistics for the Human Development Index and for the Gini coefficient, I put the most recent statistics according to the source. The data that was previously on the chart (for the HDI and the Gini) was not accurate and was not based on the source. I forgot to sign —Preceding unsigned comment added by SonCR ( talk • contribs) 04:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
User:Maxpana3 changed the list of the largest Latin American cities. He's using an uncommon view and considering only the "city proper" population, in order to get Sao Paulo listed in the first place. That is a serious bias and a personal POV, given the fact that the most common usage always considers cities as a whole, that is, as a metropolitan area. Nobody would think, for example, that the Charles de Gaulle airport is not part of Paris, only because it is located in another municipality, when in fact that municipality is next to Paris and part of the metropolitan area.
He has already accused me of "edit warring" when in fact, he was the one that introduced this potentially controversial changes, and kept reverting without paying attention to the reasons I gave him, nor even taking the time to open a discussion. Now I'm opening the discussion because of his lack of will to settle this.
My point? Very simple. We should stick to the most common usage and consider the cities as a metropolitan area. This has always been the way in this article and it has worked, until now. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 14:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
My argument is that metropolitan areas: both the metropolitan area of Mexico City as the metropolitan area of São Paulo, are defined by federal laws of each country.
They provide municipalities which belong to that area, in the case of Mexico, the 41 municipalities and 16 delegations defined here (
ZMCM in spanish)
[7]. This area according to the latest census INEGI and CONAPO 2005 has 19,239,910
[8] and according to UN estimates for 2009 has 19.319 million.
[9]
The metropolitan region of São Paulo (
metro são paulo wiki spanish), as defined by federal law
[10], is composed of 39 municipalities, and according to IBGE estimates for 2009 has 19,889,559
[11] and 20,262,000 according to UN estimates.
[12]
I think that all these references I am providing are more reliable than Mongabay.com, since they are official sources, in this case, IBGE, and INEGI UN. In addition, the references provided in accordance with the policies of wikipedia, primary sources, secondary and tertiary.
When the user says that the Charles de Gaulle airport is not part of Paris, only because it is located in another municipality, when in fact that municipality is next to Paris and part of the metropolitan area, I agree with, but not any municipality or region can be part of a metropolitan area, but even when there is an official definition for this. That means for example, Pachuca, Cuernavaca, Tula, Toluca, etc, are not part of the metropolitan area of Mexico, for the simple fact that the official definition does not. This reduces the population of this area from 21 million to 19.
In addition, this issue was much discussed in the Spanish Wikipedia Latin America in Spanish, where there was already a consensus. I'm not trying to proselytize, but show real data and not "myths". Please see discussion metropolitan areas in latin america discussion and Most populous metropolitan areas in Latin America, according to official data. -- Maxpana3 ( talk) 15:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Enciclopédia Barsa v.4, p. 230
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).World Gazetteer Also, it is taken as a reliable source, since the actual owner of the website, it says it is a task performed by hobby. In the discussion that I added in Spanish and was verified by a World Gazetteer librarians who have dual or ambiguous concepts metropolitan areas. For example, include Pachuca, Cuernavaca, Toluca, Tula, etc. to the metropolitan area of Mexico to add that number to 21,163,226. Second, as the UN report, now not says that Mexico City is the largest in Latin America, now does not serve, but well when he said it, it was official and reliable source. See articles history. Third, the link 2009 Population Estimates refers to an area "imaginary", not defined legally. It is not the same metropolitan area of Mexico City (as defined by federal law as an entity), which Metropolitan Area of Mexico (not defined by law but "concept" related to the geographical). In this way, is not the same metropolitan area of São Paulo (Defined by Brazilian Federal Law N14), which Complex Extended Metropolitan São Paulo ("concept" which speaks of geographical environment, similar to the Valle de Mexico). If we are to figures Complex São Paulo Extended Metropolitan reaches 25 million people, and there are references to this, of course, can not be used because it is not a metropolitan area defined as such, just as the Area speech in this article.-- Maxpana3 ( talk) 17:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we also include totals for "South America" and "Latin America" in the table in the demographics section. This apparently could be done by simply adding up numbers since we seem to have all the countries on hand. K. the Surveyor ( talk) 21:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to find a way to summarize the ethnicity data so that any larger geographic patterns stand out (see above section). It occurs to me that making a map would increase the detail available to users beyond what was proposed above. In fact, a map for each ethnicity makes sense, where white regions correspond to zero and black regions correspond to 100%. This would probably require its own separate page, but a link can be placed in the section. Is this acceptable? K. the Surveyor ( talk) 20:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Observation: The article currently implies that the term "Latin" in the name comes from the fact that these regions speak languages that are derived from Latin. This is not really true. The term "Latin" has long been used as an alias for "Catholic". "Latin America" was coined as a way to distinguish Catholic countries from Protestant ones. Today, of course, those distinctions are less meaningful as the countries are now more secular and the old Catholic/Protestant rivalries are not so significant anymore.
Seems to me this is worth discussing at least a bit.
-- Mcorazao ( talk) 18:47, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, that leaves Poland, Ireland, and some stretchs of Germany and the former Austro-Hungarian empire in an interesting situation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by El Cid Cabreador ( talk • contribs) 11:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
The Racial Table needs to be corrected, receiving new data and including the pardo category, which means someone descendent of an indefinite mix of europeans, indians and africans, this is an official classification in Brazil and needs to be portrayed. I will do these changes soon, someone would like to oppose? -- CEBR ( talk) 14:24, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
A single editor is repeatedly inserting fringe comments at the lede about "América Latina/Latinoamérica" not being in common use in Spanish and Portuguese, or stating that Ibero-America is a more precise term for Latin America in those same languages.
His only purpoted source is the prestigious Royal Spanish Academy. What does RAE says?:
Latinoamérica. Nombre que engloba el conjunto de países del continente americano en los que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín (español, portugués y francés), en oposición a la América de habla inglesa: «El cálculo [...] de sujetos potenciales del derecho indígena colectivo es por ahora imposible, particularmente en Latinoamérica. En Canadá y Estados Unidos hay sistemas más formalizados de registro público» (Clavero Derecho [Méx. 1994]). Es igualmente correcta la denominación América Latina. Para referirse exclusivamente a los países de lengua española es más propio usar el término específico Hispanoamérica (→ Hispanoamérica) o, si se incluye Brasil, país de habla portuguesa, el término Iberoamérica (→ Iberoamérica). Debe escribirse siempre en una sola palabra, de modo que no son correctas grafías como Latino América o Latino-América. Su gentilicio es latinoamericano.
Iberoamérica. Nombre que recibe el conjunto de países americanos que formaron parte de los reinos de España y Portugal: «Don Juan Carlos destacó ayer, en la inauguración de la II Conferencia de Justicia Constitucional de Iberoamérica, Portugal y España, que los tribunales constitucionales aseguran la primacía de la Constitución» (País [Esp.] 28.1.98). No debe usarse para referirse exclusivamente a los países americanos de lengua española, caso en que se debe emplear el término Hispanoamérica (→ Hispanoamérica). Su gentilicio, iberoamericano, se refiere normalmente solo a lo perteneciente o relativo a Iberoamérica, esto es, a los países americanos de lengua española y portuguesa: «Los tiros del festival van, decididamente, por la música española, portuguesa e iberoamericana» (Abc [Esp.] 16.8.96); pero en ocasiones incluye también en su designación lo perteneciente o relativo a España y Portugal: «José Hierro obtuvo ayer el IV premio Reina Sofía de poesía iberoamericana» (Vanguardia [Esp.] 2.6.95).
This is: it defines Latinoamérica identically to what this article states in the lede (: regions of the Americas where Spanish, Portuguese and French are primarily spoken); while defining Iberoamérica exactly as the WP Ibero-America article defines it (: former American colonies of Spain and Portugal).
Please, find some reliable source to your claims and try to reach consensus here, before reinserting your unsupported fringe claims. Thanks. -- IANVS ( talk) 23:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Introduced reference to Ibero-America, pertinent as the correct term in formal Spanish, as established by the Real Academia Española for the most widely use definition of Latin America -i.e.: countries where Spanish or Portuguese is spoken-, to the extent that with the exception of the initial definition, the rest of the article talks exclusively about Ibero-America (there is no inclusion in maps, data, or narratives of major french-speaking regions such as Quebec). El Cid Cabreador ( talk) 23:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, the article is inconsistent. Most of the article talks about the concept of Ibero-America, not Latin America. If the concept of Latin America is defined as Romance-speaking regions in the Americas, why is Quebec constantly excluded? El Cid Cabreador ( talk) 00:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it is a huge mistake to build the section on ethnicity on the idea of genetically based racial categories. Genetic categories do not reflect the way the concepts of mestizo, pardo, indigena etc. are used in contemporary Latin America but are reifying the racial ideology of the castas system which dfidn't even matchup with tthe facts when it was in use during the colonies. The argument over statistics is ridiculous and baseless since all purported statistics of category membership are basically impressionistic ideological tools. Membership of both racial and ethnic categories is in fact fluid and situational and any result is largely an artefact of the questionaaire design it self. There is a rather large literature about the inherent unreliability of those kind of census data -. I'd recommend scrapping the statistics all together and moving away from the outdated racial model of ethnicity. Using it makes wikipedia look stupid. Oh, and CIA world factbook is not a reliable source for anything at all, much less anything in the domain of social science. ·Maunus·ƛ· 01:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
The article needs the cleanup tag untill the issues with the race and ethnicity section has been taken care off. It is based on non-scholarly sources and fringe sources like Lizcano and completely ignoring the huge body of scholarship on race and ethnicity in LA. It ignores all of the problems there exist with making cross-national comparisons between census data, statistics and ethnic categories. It presents and compares different styatistics in a way that can only be characterized as academically irresponsible and illegal WP:SYNTHesis. Op top it has many sections that are not yet written and does not conform to basic WP:MOS. I agree this is an important topic - this article in no way does it justics and it urgently needs a cleanup and a to be completed. ·Maunus·ƛ· 01:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I had just written some extra data to the page and then I see and they disappeared! Who did delete it? In that case, Why didn't I receive an apologize or a message or something? There was ANYTHING wrong with the Stats...
CAN ANYONE ANSWER TO ME? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xnahueeel ( talk • contribs) 19:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Xnahueeel ( talk) 23:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)Xnahueeel
Well, you seem to be operating in good faith, and you did ask nicely. User Moxy removed it ( [12]). Moxy's a good editor, so the reason must have been a good one. SamEV ( talk) 23:40, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The ethnic groups in El Salvador are wrong, the area is 90% Mestizo 9% White and 1% American Indian according to the countries national figures and the US as well [13]
I will change it if I get no response thank you. House1090 ( talk) 19:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, but the current source does not do that either. House1090 ( talk) 02:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I added more information about the origins of poverty in Latin America and its implications for the region. I also added more information about the welfare programs, how they workd and the impact they have had —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramacu ( talk • contribs) 18:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The UN report provides the following ranking for Latin American cities:
Nº. | Metropolitan area | Country | Pop. UN [1] |
Official population |
Ref |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | São Paulo | Brazil | 20.262.000 | 18.730.570 [2] | Censo IBGE 2010 |
2 | México, D.F. | Mexico | 19.319.000 | 19.239.910 [3] | Conteo 2005 |
3 | Buenos Aires | Argentina | 12.988.000 | 12.548.638 | Est INDEC 30-06-2009 |
4 | Río de Janeiro | Brazil | 11.950.000 | 10.977.035 | Censo IBGE 2010 |
5 | Lima | Peru | 8.769.000 | 8.482.619 | Censo 2007 |
6 | Bogotá | Colombia | 8.262.000 | 8.328.163 | Est DANE 30-06-2009 |
7 | Santiago | Chile | 5.883.000 | 5.428.590 | INE 2005 |
8 | Belo Horizonte | Brazil | 5.852.000 | 5.031.438 | Est IGBE 2008 |
9 | Guadalajara | Mexico | 4.402.000 | 4.095.853 | Conteo 2005 |
10 | Porto Alegre | Brazil | 4.092.000 | 3.889.850 | Censo IBGE 2010 |
Important notice
User
Maxpana3 introduced the same changes that this "anonymous IP" is trying to introduce. They are the same person. Maxpana is just "hidding" behind the anomymous IP to avoid scrutinity, because his changes were rejected months ago.
The link between the IP and Maxpana are very clear. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 06:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
If French is also considered a Romance language, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language) why isn't Canada initially included as part of Latin America. Furthermore, if the Hispanic population in the USA continues to grow, either by reproduction or immigration, wouldn't the USA eventually become part Latin America too given the possibility of them all knowing Spanish? What are the actual requirements and conditions for a country to "speak" a language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.164.109.125 ( talk) 21:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
In the table of socioeconomic indicators i think is more logical put the nominal gdp and the gdp per capita ppp, all know that chile per capita is superior than argentinian, also the growth rate i guess is more acurrate of cia, the same with the gdp and per capita
if some moderator accept this idea i have the table for copy and paste and if he wann i can send to him in email or put it in megaupload or do it by myself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.113.165.121 ( talk) 23:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
An dynamic IP keeps adding: "At the same time the Soviet Union propped up the Fidel Castro communist dictatorship and tried to export communist dictatorship to the rest of Latin America." This needs to be sourced. -- nsaum75 !Dígame¡ 03:39, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Nothing in that paragraph is sourced. Therefore, you have to assume that everything in it responds to common sense and to evident facts clear to everyone. 150.203.220.83 ( talk) 08:57, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't see that, may be it has been already deleted. Uhmm but if such a statement is going to be introduced then it should be sourced. I dealt with all kinds of stupid things when I was an unregistered user. Karnifro ( talk) 20:46, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I removed the following paragraph:
It obviously has a lot of issues. First of all we don't need a whole paragraph talking about a single country. Secondly it is full of weasel words such as "richest" (see WP:WEASEL). It contains irrelevant comparisons and descriptions, set only as a way to "improve" the country perception, which constitutes boosterism (see WP:BOOSTER).
It was just added hours ago by an anonymous IP user from Brazil, and then re-introduced by another user. It is clearly a major boosterism case and that's why it was removed. Just wanted to leave this message to make things clear to the Wikipedia community. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 04:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I find a notice I receive on my talk page amusing: Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Americas, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. My edit summary plainly stated removing section - it has little to do with Latin America and a whole and gives metropolitan areas in the region undue weight. It would serve better as a fork. As my edit summary stated, I believe that it gives metropolitan areas and their economies in Latin America undue weight. It would better serve as a fork on economies in Latin America. 08OceanBeachS.D. 06:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Well this is useful however i think it would be best to move the dispute to a new page or set up a new link to the right area — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.169.226 ( talk) 21:58, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
This would be the second time a person wants to change the city rankings in the infobox. In my personal opinion and experience, this always happens because a single person (registered user or anonymous IP) doesn't like the rank their city received. Also this issue was discussed previously and metropolitan area statistics remained in the infobox, as usual.
When people refer to a city, they think about it as a whole (metro area). City proper is not a demographical concept per se, but a political-administrative concept very limiting when it comes to demography. City proper term describes the area in which a political entity (city government, municipal government) rules. And of course this political entity has a population, but it doesn't reflect the city as a whole just a small portion of the metro area (This was already stated in the previous discussion, I'm just adding it here again for info purposes).
You don't think about Paris being a 1.4 million city, but as a 14 million city because you always include the metropolitan area concept. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 15:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Huh that's weird OceanBeach, I'm from the US (from Texas) and if you live in let's say a Houston suburb or in NYC you consider yourself part of the city of Houston/NYC and you go around and say "hey, I live in Houston", because big cities always have suburbs and they're just part of the metropolitan area, even if you know you have to pay your taxes to your specific city proper.
So I believe a metro area listing is far better than a city proper. This city proper stuff sounds too restrictive IMHO. Karnifro ( talk) 20:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I don't want to make ad hominem attacks but this is just insane and disruptive. It is very easy to detect in User:08OceanBeach SD edit pattern that he has been systematically deleting, denying or opposing the fact that Mexico is part of North America. We had to deal with that before and I thought he had stopped.
So this time he deleted the region North America as part of Latin America. Mexico is the only country part of it but it is still a region of Latin America, it is a subdivision. He also deleted a map that illustrated these four basic regions (some count three instead, grouping Central America and the Caribbean together, as they do in Brazil). Of course I've reverted it. I also added a reference just in case [19] .
Every user from Latin America know these regions, especially those from Central America. Thanks for reading, just wanted to leave this message as a receipt for administrators and editors in general. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 04:05, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I really don't know how to explain my view on this. I'll try again OceanBeach. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. People come here to learn about something. They will learn that Latin America is subdivided into 4 basic regions. They will learn that, for example, Brazil is part of S. America, that Costa Rica is part of C. America, that Dominican Republic is part of the Caribbean... and if they want to known what subdivision of Latin America Mexico belongs to, they will learn it is part of a region called North America. See, the subsection of about the regions of Latin America so leaving Mexico alone without its proper region is just absurd. Will they be confused? I don't think so. But if they "feel confused" they will simply look at the map and will learn that Mexico is the only country part of this region. Leaving Mexico "regionless" in a subsection about subdivisions of Latin America is just absurd, especially when there's sources about this. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 07:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
After days of no response from AlexCovarrubias, it would seem he no longer cares or thinks the matter worth discussing. Seeing as he has not taken part in measures to enhance this article, I will follow through with constructive edits that represent the common view and do not constitute to cherry picking. 08OceanBeachS.D. 21:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
I personally have witnessed Ocean Beach lack of civility in this an other articles.... that's why I had to report him for edit warring last time we tried to discuss at global city. But this time his bad behaviour is limited to this talk page so I would say that's a good thing and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being honest here.
Uhhmmm in this matter I would have to agree that these are regions of Latin America. I learned that ever since I was in junior high or even before that.... and I don't see a problem here because there are sources that support the text. Also I would have to agree with the fact that North America/South America meaning continent are not subdivisions of Latin America, so why would we use terms that belong to continental models if the text is talking about regional subdivision? What bothers me is that the map is too big for such a small section it just doesn't look neat so I guess we neeed to expand it at least one paragrah so it will look great and encylopedic. Cheers.
Karni
Fro
( Talk to me) 06:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Shouldn´t Puerto Rico be considered part of Latin America? I don´t see its data in any chart. Joevicentini ( talk) 02:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Now I am not questioning his work, but I don't think this information regarding subdivisions in Latin America should NOT be in top of the page because of what one person believes. It can be put in the Demographics section as a side note possibly. Let me know what you all think? Jesusmariajalisco ( talk) 23:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I wrote the new Gini Coeficent in the page and someone deleted it... I think is quite unfair because I spent a lot of time searching for the new Coeficent. Moreover I don't even understand why this person deleted the current information, I mean, it's always the best thing having the newest information, isn't?
Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fettch ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
At the moment, the article contradicts itself. In the Criollos/ whites sub-section of the "Difference between race and ethnicity" portion of the article it says "Whites make up the majority of the population of Argentina, Costa Rica and Uruguay, and are also a significant demographic group in Brazil, Cuba, Chile, Puerto Rico". However, in the table for the Ethnic distribution section it states that Puerto Rico is 74.8% white and Brazil is 53.8% white, thus whites constitute a majority, not just a "significant demographic group" in both of these countries. In an effort to be consistent, I have changed the wording of the Criollos/ whites section to include Puerto Rico and Brazil as countries with a white majority. Feel free to change it back if you find a source that contradicts this, however at the moment the source for the table is the mos comprehensive provided.
Emperornik ( talk) 08:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I think the table should be remove entirely as it confuses the issue more than it helps. For example, peer reviewed genetic studies have shown that a majority of Puerto Ricans have amerindian mitochondrial DNA and European Y chromosomes, making them genetically mestizos. Yet the chart lists Puerto Rico as having no mestizos. What is true is that a majority of Puerto Ricans self identify as white or criollo. Situations like this repeat themselves over and over again across the region. There is no workable classification system for the race or ethnic origin of the people of the region unless you focus on only 1)self identification or 2)genetics, and be very clear what you are focusing on. Even then, a table such as the one I continue to remove does not follow provide useable information, because the categories that people use to define themselves very greatly from country to country. People will respond differently depending on the situation and the exact wording of the question as well. The use of Criollo in many countries now varies greatly from its original use as a person born in the Americas to parents of european descent. In fact, in Puerto Rico, many people of visible african anscestry self identify as criollo, and trigueno, but when the us census taker comes around, they choose white or other. The table gives those without other knowlege of the reason a very misleading impression of the population, and so I am removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.205.66.235 ( talk) 11:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Considering that the majority of the countries have high HDI, and that there is only one country (Haiti) in a severe situation, I guess that this topic is just supporting the old stereotype of Latin America. In fact, Brazil is today one of the BRIC economies, Argentina has a very high standard of living, such as Chile (a country that has been growing very fast since 90´s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.101.155.102 ( talk) 12:03, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Should Hispanic neighborhoods in anglophone countries in North America be considered part of Latin America or not? The question came to mind when I pointed out that the Southwestern US was once part of the Spanish Empire, which led me to draw Florida into the exclusion as well. Also, there's Quebec, which is French speaking, and I noticed that places such as Miami, Los Angeles, and New York have large Spanish speaking communities, so Spanish might be prevalent in some of those neighborhoods and areas. 192.12.88.7 ( talk) 04:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The image labeled "Vicente Fox A white Latin American." has a very racist comment. It indicates that there are little or no "white" Latin Americans. Also, the term "white" is not appropriate and even offensive. I suggest "Caucasian" be used instead. Melara... ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC).
Shouldn't Quebec be part of Latin America? Or shouldn't it at least be mentioned as 'sometimes included'? Zazaban ( talk) 09:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
SamEV recommended that is should explain my reasoning for using the CIA numbers. They are more recent and adding them to the table will in no way damage the outcome of the other nations. It will effect the total percentage but this is because it is more accurate for Mexico in particular so it can work because there is no binding date that all the countires surveys were taken anyways. I hope this helps. Rahlgd ( talk) 10:43, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
I think you have a good idea. I have actually been working on a completely re-done version with updated sources which i will post when completed which hopefully can be by the end of the day. I think that for the spaces with no information instead of having a 0.0% in the spaces there should be a N/A put in it's place because countries like Chile don't have Zambo as an available choice in their survey but that doesn't mean the country has no Zambos. Also, for Brazil, not every pardo is a mulatto (some are mestizo or even zambo or mixed with asian because pardo is just the general term used for racially mixed) so we shouldn't have the pardo population percentage tagged as mulatto, rather we should have a multiracial category that mainly Brazil would fill as Brazil is far more mixed than most of the other countries. About the CIA statistics on Mexico, they have not been exactly the same for the last two decades, but they have been very similar with usually only a 1 to 3 percentage point difference, usually in the Amerindian population due to a phenomenon occurring in Mexico's indigenous population. In most societies when people become more developed their birth rates lower, but for Mexico's indigenous population they have been maintaining they're high birthrate even as they attain higher incomes and move to urban or suburban environments. Meaning that Mexico's indigenous population is increasing with new development and wealth even though historically based common ideas of demographics say that they were originally projected to decrease. According to the the demographics of Mexico from the CIA world fact book in 1997 the racial make up of Mexico was 28% Amerindian, 11 % White, 59% Mestizo and 1% other (mostly Black although it seems like there should be more Asian too). Rahlgd ( talk) 20:21, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
As usual, the racist idiot who intepreted the racial composition of Chileans who came to the conclusion that 52% of Chileans are of pure European descent after misinterpreting some University study, has had his racist rubbish spread to all articles were the ethnic origins of the Chilean population lie. The twit who has publish the ridiculous information have misinformed others of the truth. Most Chileans, indeed around 90% DO have some, if not a lot of Amerindian blood. However, the ration might bee 52% European and 44% Amerindian in the average Chilean, even if the percentage is very small amongst the upper classes. However, most Chileans, not even half, are anywhere near pure European-descent. The original upper-class married Incan princesses and cacique's daughters, and the sebsequent Spaniards and Eruopean immigrants intermarried amongst the descendents. Wikipedia should portray the truth, not some racists' fantasy based on ignorance and proved by biased university research. 86.160.120.47 ( talk) 20:51, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm confused what you mean. You say that i'm racist against amerindians because I said that Chile is 65% white? And then you say i have an agenda against whites because i said that Mexico's indigenous population is 30%? All information i have come across has stated that this is true (regarding Mexico). If anyone has an agenda it is you, Covarrubias, you are the one who went and falsely inflated Mexico's white population in numerous articles dsepite the sources clearly indicating that you were wrong. I have seen sources that say that Mexico has more indigenous than Whites but not the other way around. I have just heard you say this. You blatantly added false uncited information to make it look like there were more whites so if anyone has an agenda it is you Covarrubias. I'm sorry if i offended anyone with the information i posted, i got it from trying to find the most recently updated statistcs on each country. If you think the information is incorrect than I can simply use the CIA as the source for all of them, while it's not the most recent source it is more recent than the informaton currently being used. I'm also so sick of you saying than i have some sort of personal agenda, Covarrubias everytime i say something in good light about amerindians you don't agree with. It seems like you just have some problem with amerindians and don't even start saying i'm trying to promote some pro-nahuatl agenda, i'm not even half indigenous. I'm a quarter Japanese, half White (dutch, spanish, german and some italian) and only a quarter amerindian and of that i'm not even Nahuatl i'm Zapotec so just stop these personal attacks. You are the one that constantly removes Indigenous things from the Mexico article and tried to say they were'nt culturally relavent. Also you still never answererd for your lying and blatant manipultion of data in the ethnography section in the Mexico article. So don't be such a hypocrite, it is not wanted here nor is your rude, condescending attitude. Rahlgd ( talk) 20:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed that you, Covarrubias again tried to inflate the white popultion by changing it from 16% to 17% thats just childish. Please don't do it again and stop inserting theses small lies that you think we won't notice. Rahlgd ( talk) 20:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
The description of GDP for the Largest Economic cities section says, "GDP figures are estimated and expressed in USD, using purchasing power parity (PPP)exchange rates:" This is how GDP is usually described in economics textbooks and various reports.
However that actual number for Sao Paulo in the table is $25,675. This is waaay to high for Brazil. Checking the referenced source: http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/presidencia/noticias/noticia_impressao.php?id_noticia=1288 on table 10, I see that is shows the "Produto Interno Bruto" or PIB (Portugese for GDP) is R$ 25,675 in 2006.
So not to rub it in, but that 25,675 number is wrong at least three ways: It is 4 years old, it is in Brazilian currency instead of USD, and it is not adjusted for PPP.
I didn't check the other figures in the table.
MountainMeadows ( talk) 01:19, 13 April 2010 (UTC) MountainMeadows
The following content was added recently, but it requires sources and copyediting.
"During much of the 19th century Latin American countries saw strifes between liberal and conservative political factions. Initially conservatives did succesfully gain power in countries like Chile, Argentina. During the second half of the 19th century some countries shifted towars liberal goverments while in some other like Mexico conservative regimes consolidated. By 1899 a large conservative-liberal war broke out and while in Colombia the conservatives won the war the Mexican Revolution that begun in 1911 wiped out an vestige of Porfirio Diaz authoritarian conservative regime."
SamEV ( talk) 19:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
There's a problem with green text leaking over the page (from economy down)... the font tags seem OK but there's still a problem? Haven't been able to find the problem unfortunately, anyone else want to try?
James ( talk) 10:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a table in the article that says that the ethnic distribution in Brazil is: 53.8% White, 39.1% Mulatto, 6.2% Black and 0.4% Amerindian. There is a huge mistake in it: there is 39.1 BROWN, and not "Mulatto". In Brazil, the "Pardo" (or in English: "Brown") does NOT mean "Mulatto". It is a broader classification that includes Mulatto, Cabloco (that is, "Mestizo", or "Indian-European descendant") and in a lesser presence, the Cafuzo. That means that a Brown Brazilian will almost always be a "Caboclo" or "Mestizo" if he is from the Northeast and North and a "Mulatto" if he comes from the Southeast. For a better explanation and with sources, see Brazil#Demographics. Regards, -- Lecen ( talk) 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello there. User:Jesusmariajalisco has just reversed a lot of edits I have made to this article under the pretense that these constitute "vandalism" and that they were not properly referenced. I have to say that these two accusations are false. First they are clearly not vandalism; I'm not in Wikipedia to vandalize articles, as you can see from my contribution history. Second, all of my edits have been properly referenced with authoritative sources, such as the IMF. I ask User:Jesusmariajalisco to please take greater care when reversing any future edits to this article and to exercise caution before launching false accusations against another user. Have a good day. Pristino ( talk) 18:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
In Mexico the amerindian population is 30 percent, this number is often underestimated because in terms of preserving languages, religions, and traditions the indigenous population in Mexico is 13 percent. The actual indigenous population of mexico is 30 percent, just because a person of full-blooded amerindian descent is completely hispanicized does not mean they aren't amerindian. For example; an African american is not considered white or mulatto just because they speak english and are christian... Michael jordan was not English. Why on earth would an amerindian be denied their heritage? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juleon Powe ( talk • contribs) 23:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
There is a large mention of diseases brought by the europeans in the colonization section of this page, however, there is no mention of mass murder don by the Europeans. In a paper on world war two it would be unacceptable to not include the holocaust, so why not here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juleon Powe ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
The table of percentages is wrong, in Perú there are more percentages of asians that in Argentina.
You forget Canada. see Québec
The demographic chart is incorrect, nearly 10% of Nicaragua's population is of African descent. And more than 14% is of European descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.199.64 ( talk) 03:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I have changed recently the infobox about Brazilian ethnic groups since it says that it has 39% Mulattoes. It is clearly a mistake since it makes a confusion over the Portuguese word "Pardo" that translated to English means "Brown". However, "Pardo" is not simply a mulatto, but all mixed-race Brazilians.
This well explained in the article about Brazil (See Brazil#Demographics):
Enciclopédia Barsa v.4, p. 230
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).My edits correcting that mistake were reverted by user SamEV (Here: [2]) and the only explanation he gave was that "please desist from such ridiculous changes". I explained to him why I made the edit in his talk page (Here: [3] and not only he did not bother to answer me he also erased whati I wrote (Here: [4]) with the explanation that he was "removing nonsense".
Not only he did that, but he also, once gain, reverted my edit (Here: [5]) explaining that he was "reverting good faith but ridiculous edit again". As all can see, his behavior in at least unconstructive and at most disruptive. He has been rude withou reason and reverted my edits even though the main article about the country says otherwise. -- Lecen ( talk) 01:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I want to make an outraegous comment... this artificial discussion seem to fall in the typical Brazilian racism against blacks and mulattoes. Why to add a whole new category (such as "pardo") just because some author use that classification? Seems ridiculous. I agree with SamEV. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 01:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I've just created a Latin Americans article, primarily derived from the Latin America#Demographics section of this article. As I added a "Main" template in this section, redirecting to the new article, I guess it is time to cut some paragraphs/photos/tables from this extensive section.
Furthermore, I'd be happy to count with your help in developing the Latin Americans new article.
Salut, -- IANVS ( talk | cont) 18:55, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
I changed the statistics for the Human Development Index and for the Gini coefficient, I put the most recent statistics according to the source. The data that was previously on the chart (for the HDI and the Gini) was not accurate and was not based on the source. I forgot to sign —Preceding unsigned comment added by SonCR ( talk • contribs) 04:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
User:Maxpana3 changed the list of the largest Latin American cities. He's using an uncommon view and considering only the "city proper" population, in order to get Sao Paulo listed in the first place. That is a serious bias and a personal POV, given the fact that the most common usage always considers cities as a whole, that is, as a metropolitan area. Nobody would think, for example, that the Charles de Gaulle airport is not part of Paris, only because it is located in another municipality, when in fact that municipality is next to Paris and part of the metropolitan area.
He has already accused me of "edit warring" when in fact, he was the one that introduced this potentially controversial changes, and kept reverting without paying attention to the reasons I gave him, nor even taking the time to open a discussion. Now I'm opening the discussion because of his lack of will to settle this.
My point? Very simple. We should stick to the most common usage and consider the cities as a metropolitan area. This has always been the way in this article and it has worked, until now. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 14:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
My argument is that metropolitan areas: both the metropolitan area of Mexico City as the metropolitan area of São Paulo, are defined by federal laws of each country.
They provide municipalities which belong to that area, in the case of Mexico, the 41 municipalities and 16 delegations defined here (
ZMCM in spanish)
[7]. This area according to the latest census INEGI and CONAPO 2005 has 19,239,910
[8] and according to UN estimates for 2009 has 19.319 million.
[9]
The metropolitan region of São Paulo (
metro são paulo wiki spanish), as defined by federal law
[10], is composed of 39 municipalities, and according to IBGE estimates for 2009 has 19,889,559
[11] and 20,262,000 according to UN estimates.
[12]
I think that all these references I am providing are more reliable than Mongabay.com, since they are official sources, in this case, IBGE, and INEGI UN. In addition, the references provided in accordance with the policies of wikipedia, primary sources, secondary and tertiary.
When the user says that the Charles de Gaulle airport is not part of Paris, only because it is located in another municipality, when in fact that municipality is next to Paris and part of the metropolitan area, I agree with, but not any municipality or region can be part of a metropolitan area, but even when there is an official definition for this. That means for example, Pachuca, Cuernavaca, Tula, Toluca, etc, are not part of the metropolitan area of Mexico, for the simple fact that the official definition does not. This reduces the population of this area from 21 million to 19.
In addition, this issue was much discussed in the Spanish Wikipedia Latin America in Spanish, where there was already a consensus. I'm not trying to proselytize, but show real data and not "myths". Please see discussion metropolitan areas in latin america discussion and Most populous metropolitan areas in Latin America, according to official data. -- Maxpana3 ( talk) 15:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Enciclopédia Barsa v.4, p. 230
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).World Gazetteer Also, it is taken as a reliable source, since the actual owner of the website, it says it is a task performed by hobby. In the discussion that I added in Spanish and was verified by a World Gazetteer librarians who have dual or ambiguous concepts metropolitan areas. For example, include Pachuca, Cuernavaca, Toluca, Tula, etc. to the metropolitan area of Mexico to add that number to 21,163,226. Second, as the UN report, now not says that Mexico City is the largest in Latin America, now does not serve, but well when he said it, it was official and reliable source. See articles history. Third, the link 2009 Population Estimates refers to an area "imaginary", not defined legally. It is not the same metropolitan area of Mexico City (as defined by federal law as an entity), which Metropolitan Area of Mexico (not defined by law but "concept" related to the geographical). In this way, is not the same metropolitan area of São Paulo (Defined by Brazilian Federal Law N14), which Complex Extended Metropolitan São Paulo ("concept" which speaks of geographical environment, similar to the Valle de Mexico). If we are to figures Complex São Paulo Extended Metropolitan reaches 25 million people, and there are references to this, of course, can not be used because it is not a metropolitan area defined as such, just as the Area speech in this article.-- Maxpana3 ( talk) 17:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we also include totals for "South America" and "Latin America" in the table in the demographics section. This apparently could be done by simply adding up numbers since we seem to have all the countries on hand. K. the Surveyor ( talk) 21:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to find a way to summarize the ethnicity data so that any larger geographic patterns stand out (see above section). It occurs to me that making a map would increase the detail available to users beyond what was proposed above. In fact, a map for each ethnicity makes sense, where white regions correspond to zero and black regions correspond to 100%. This would probably require its own separate page, but a link can be placed in the section. Is this acceptable? K. the Surveyor ( talk) 20:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Observation: The article currently implies that the term "Latin" in the name comes from the fact that these regions speak languages that are derived from Latin. This is not really true. The term "Latin" has long been used as an alias for "Catholic". "Latin America" was coined as a way to distinguish Catholic countries from Protestant ones. Today, of course, those distinctions are less meaningful as the countries are now more secular and the old Catholic/Protestant rivalries are not so significant anymore.
Seems to me this is worth discussing at least a bit.
-- Mcorazao ( talk) 18:47, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, that leaves Poland, Ireland, and some stretchs of Germany and the former Austro-Hungarian empire in an interesting situation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by El Cid Cabreador ( talk • contribs) 11:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
The Racial Table needs to be corrected, receiving new data and including the pardo category, which means someone descendent of an indefinite mix of europeans, indians and africans, this is an official classification in Brazil and needs to be portrayed. I will do these changes soon, someone would like to oppose? -- CEBR ( talk) 14:24, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
A single editor is repeatedly inserting fringe comments at the lede about "América Latina/Latinoamérica" not being in common use in Spanish and Portuguese, or stating that Ibero-America is a more precise term for Latin America in those same languages.
His only purpoted source is the prestigious Royal Spanish Academy. What does RAE says?:
Latinoamérica. Nombre que engloba el conjunto de países del continente americano en los que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín (español, portugués y francés), en oposición a la América de habla inglesa: «El cálculo [...] de sujetos potenciales del derecho indígena colectivo es por ahora imposible, particularmente en Latinoamérica. En Canadá y Estados Unidos hay sistemas más formalizados de registro público» (Clavero Derecho [Méx. 1994]). Es igualmente correcta la denominación América Latina. Para referirse exclusivamente a los países de lengua española es más propio usar el término específico Hispanoamérica (→ Hispanoamérica) o, si se incluye Brasil, país de habla portuguesa, el término Iberoamérica (→ Iberoamérica). Debe escribirse siempre en una sola palabra, de modo que no son correctas grafías como Latino América o Latino-América. Su gentilicio es latinoamericano.
Iberoamérica. Nombre que recibe el conjunto de países americanos que formaron parte de los reinos de España y Portugal: «Don Juan Carlos destacó ayer, en la inauguración de la II Conferencia de Justicia Constitucional de Iberoamérica, Portugal y España, que los tribunales constitucionales aseguran la primacía de la Constitución» (País [Esp.] 28.1.98). No debe usarse para referirse exclusivamente a los países americanos de lengua española, caso en que se debe emplear el término Hispanoamérica (→ Hispanoamérica). Su gentilicio, iberoamericano, se refiere normalmente solo a lo perteneciente o relativo a Iberoamérica, esto es, a los países americanos de lengua española y portuguesa: «Los tiros del festival van, decididamente, por la música española, portuguesa e iberoamericana» (Abc [Esp.] 16.8.96); pero en ocasiones incluye también en su designación lo perteneciente o relativo a España y Portugal: «José Hierro obtuvo ayer el IV premio Reina Sofía de poesía iberoamericana» (Vanguardia [Esp.] 2.6.95).
This is: it defines Latinoamérica identically to what this article states in the lede (: regions of the Americas where Spanish, Portuguese and French are primarily spoken); while defining Iberoamérica exactly as the WP Ibero-America article defines it (: former American colonies of Spain and Portugal).
Please, find some reliable source to your claims and try to reach consensus here, before reinserting your unsupported fringe claims. Thanks. -- IANVS ( talk) 23:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Introduced reference to Ibero-America, pertinent as the correct term in formal Spanish, as established by the Real Academia Española for the most widely use definition of Latin America -i.e.: countries where Spanish or Portuguese is spoken-, to the extent that with the exception of the initial definition, the rest of the article talks exclusively about Ibero-America (there is no inclusion in maps, data, or narratives of major french-speaking regions such as Quebec). El Cid Cabreador ( talk) 23:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, the article is inconsistent. Most of the article talks about the concept of Ibero-America, not Latin America. If the concept of Latin America is defined as Romance-speaking regions in the Americas, why is Quebec constantly excluded? El Cid Cabreador ( talk) 00:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it is a huge mistake to build the section on ethnicity on the idea of genetically based racial categories. Genetic categories do not reflect the way the concepts of mestizo, pardo, indigena etc. are used in contemporary Latin America but are reifying the racial ideology of the castas system which dfidn't even matchup with tthe facts when it was in use during the colonies. The argument over statistics is ridiculous and baseless since all purported statistics of category membership are basically impressionistic ideological tools. Membership of both racial and ethnic categories is in fact fluid and situational and any result is largely an artefact of the questionaaire design it self. There is a rather large literature about the inherent unreliability of those kind of census data -. I'd recommend scrapping the statistics all together and moving away from the outdated racial model of ethnicity. Using it makes wikipedia look stupid. Oh, and CIA world factbook is not a reliable source for anything at all, much less anything in the domain of social science. ·Maunus·ƛ· 01:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
The article needs the cleanup tag untill the issues with the race and ethnicity section has been taken care off. It is based on non-scholarly sources and fringe sources like Lizcano and completely ignoring the huge body of scholarship on race and ethnicity in LA. It ignores all of the problems there exist with making cross-national comparisons between census data, statistics and ethnic categories. It presents and compares different styatistics in a way that can only be characterized as academically irresponsible and illegal WP:SYNTHesis. Op top it has many sections that are not yet written and does not conform to basic WP:MOS. I agree this is an important topic - this article in no way does it justics and it urgently needs a cleanup and a to be completed. ·Maunus·ƛ· 01:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I had just written some extra data to the page and then I see and they disappeared! Who did delete it? In that case, Why didn't I receive an apologize or a message or something? There was ANYTHING wrong with the Stats...
CAN ANYONE ANSWER TO ME? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xnahueeel ( talk • contribs) 19:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Xnahueeel ( talk) 23:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)Xnahueeel
Well, you seem to be operating in good faith, and you did ask nicely. User Moxy removed it ( [12]). Moxy's a good editor, so the reason must have been a good one. SamEV ( talk) 23:40, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The ethnic groups in El Salvador are wrong, the area is 90% Mestizo 9% White and 1% American Indian according to the countries national figures and the US as well [13]
I will change it if I get no response thank you. House1090 ( talk) 19:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, but the current source does not do that either. House1090 ( talk) 02:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I added more information about the origins of poverty in Latin America and its implications for the region. I also added more information about the welfare programs, how they workd and the impact they have had —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramacu ( talk • contribs) 18:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The UN report provides the following ranking for Latin American cities:
Nº. | Metropolitan area | Country | Pop. UN [1] |
Official population |
Ref |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | São Paulo | Brazil | 20.262.000 | 18.730.570 [2] | Censo IBGE 2010 |
2 | México, D.F. | Mexico | 19.319.000 | 19.239.910 [3] | Conteo 2005 |
3 | Buenos Aires | Argentina | 12.988.000 | 12.548.638 | Est INDEC 30-06-2009 |
4 | Río de Janeiro | Brazil | 11.950.000 | 10.977.035 | Censo IBGE 2010 |
5 | Lima | Peru | 8.769.000 | 8.482.619 | Censo 2007 |
6 | Bogotá | Colombia | 8.262.000 | 8.328.163 | Est DANE 30-06-2009 |
7 | Santiago | Chile | 5.883.000 | 5.428.590 | INE 2005 |
8 | Belo Horizonte | Brazil | 5.852.000 | 5.031.438 | Est IGBE 2008 |
9 | Guadalajara | Mexico | 4.402.000 | 4.095.853 | Conteo 2005 |
10 | Porto Alegre | Brazil | 4.092.000 | 3.889.850 | Censo IBGE 2010 |
Important notice
User
Maxpana3 introduced the same changes that this "anonymous IP" is trying to introduce. They are the same person. Maxpana is just "hidding" behind the anomymous IP to avoid scrutinity, because his changes were rejected months ago.
The link between the IP and Maxpana are very clear. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 06:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
If French is also considered a Romance language, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language) why isn't Canada initially included as part of Latin America. Furthermore, if the Hispanic population in the USA continues to grow, either by reproduction or immigration, wouldn't the USA eventually become part Latin America too given the possibility of them all knowing Spanish? What are the actual requirements and conditions for a country to "speak" a language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.164.109.125 ( talk) 21:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
In the table of socioeconomic indicators i think is more logical put the nominal gdp and the gdp per capita ppp, all know that chile per capita is superior than argentinian, also the growth rate i guess is more acurrate of cia, the same with the gdp and per capita
if some moderator accept this idea i have the table for copy and paste and if he wann i can send to him in email or put it in megaupload or do it by myself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.113.165.121 ( talk) 23:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
An dynamic IP keeps adding: "At the same time the Soviet Union propped up the Fidel Castro communist dictatorship and tried to export communist dictatorship to the rest of Latin America." This needs to be sourced. -- nsaum75 !Dígame¡ 03:39, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Nothing in that paragraph is sourced. Therefore, you have to assume that everything in it responds to common sense and to evident facts clear to everyone. 150.203.220.83 ( talk) 08:57, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't see that, may be it has been already deleted. Uhmm but if such a statement is going to be introduced then it should be sourced. I dealt with all kinds of stupid things when I was an unregistered user. Karnifro ( talk) 20:46, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I removed the following paragraph:
It obviously has a lot of issues. First of all we don't need a whole paragraph talking about a single country. Secondly it is full of weasel words such as "richest" (see WP:WEASEL). It contains irrelevant comparisons and descriptions, set only as a way to "improve" the country perception, which constitutes boosterism (see WP:BOOSTER).
It was just added hours ago by an anonymous IP user from Brazil, and then re-introduced by another user. It is clearly a major boosterism case and that's why it was removed. Just wanted to leave this message to make things clear to the Wikipedia community. Thanks. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 04:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I find a notice I receive on my talk page amusing: Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Americas, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. My edit summary plainly stated removing section - it has little to do with Latin America and a whole and gives metropolitan areas in the region undue weight. It would serve better as a fork. As my edit summary stated, I believe that it gives metropolitan areas and their economies in Latin America undue weight. It would better serve as a fork on economies in Latin America. 08OceanBeachS.D. 06:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Well this is useful however i think it would be best to move the dispute to a new page or set up a new link to the right area — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.169.226 ( talk) 21:58, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
This would be the second time a person wants to change the city rankings in the infobox. In my personal opinion and experience, this always happens because a single person (registered user or anonymous IP) doesn't like the rank their city received. Also this issue was discussed previously and metropolitan area statistics remained in the infobox, as usual.
When people refer to a city, they think about it as a whole (metro area). City proper is not a demographical concept per se, but a political-administrative concept very limiting when it comes to demography. City proper term describes the area in which a political entity (city government, municipal government) rules. And of course this political entity has a population, but it doesn't reflect the city as a whole just a small portion of the metro area (This was already stated in the previous discussion, I'm just adding it here again for info purposes).
You don't think about Paris being a 1.4 million city, but as a 14 million city because you always include the metropolitan area concept. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 15:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Huh that's weird OceanBeach, I'm from the US (from Texas) and if you live in let's say a Houston suburb or in NYC you consider yourself part of the city of Houston/NYC and you go around and say "hey, I live in Houston", because big cities always have suburbs and they're just part of the metropolitan area, even if you know you have to pay your taxes to your specific city proper.
So I believe a metro area listing is far better than a city proper. This city proper stuff sounds too restrictive IMHO. Karnifro ( talk) 20:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I don't want to make ad hominem attacks but this is just insane and disruptive. It is very easy to detect in User:08OceanBeach SD edit pattern that he has been systematically deleting, denying or opposing the fact that Mexico is part of North America. We had to deal with that before and I thought he had stopped.
So this time he deleted the region North America as part of Latin America. Mexico is the only country part of it but it is still a region of Latin America, it is a subdivision. He also deleted a map that illustrated these four basic regions (some count three instead, grouping Central America and the Caribbean together, as they do in Brazil). Of course I've reverted it. I also added a reference just in case [19] .
Every user from Latin America know these regions, especially those from Central America. Thanks for reading, just wanted to leave this message as a receipt for administrators and editors in general. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 04:05, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I really don't know how to explain my view on this. I'll try again OceanBeach. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. People come here to learn about something. They will learn that Latin America is subdivided into 4 basic regions. They will learn that, for example, Brazil is part of S. America, that Costa Rica is part of C. America, that Dominican Republic is part of the Caribbean... and if they want to known what subdivision of Latin America Mexico belongs to, they will learn it is part of a region called North America. See, the subsection of about the regions of Latin America so leaving Mexico alone without its proper region is just absurd. Will they be confused? I don't think so. But if they "feel confused" they will simply look at the map and will learn that Mexico is the only country part of this region. Leaving Mexico "regionless" in a subsection about subdivisions of Latin America is just absurd, especially when there's sources about this. Alex Covarrubias ( Talk? ) 07:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
After days of no response from AlexCovarrubias, it would seem he no longer cares or thinks the matter worth discussing. Seeing as he has not taken part in measures to enhance this article, I will follow through with constructive edits that represent the common view and do not constitute to cherry picking. 08OceanBeachS.D. 21:41, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
I personally have witnessed Ocean Beach lack of civility in this an other articles.... that's why I had to report him for edit warring last time we tried to discuss at global city. But this time his bad behaviour is limited to this talk page so I would say that's a good thing and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being honest here.
Uhhmmm in this matter I would have to agree that these are regions of Latin America. I learned that ever since I was in junior high or even before that.... and I don't see a problem here because there are sources that support the text. Also I would have to agree with the fact that North America/South America meaning continent are not subdivisions of Latin America, so why would we use terms that belong to continental models if the text is talking about regional subdivision? What bothers me is that the map is too big for such a small section it just doesn't look neat so I guess we neeed to expand it at least one paragrah so it will look great and encylopedic. Cheers.
Karni
Fro
( Talk to me) 06:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)