From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 February 2024

The page refers several times to Israeli forces killing Hind, while all the cited sources state that there was no clear evidence of that and only write she was "found dead" or "killed." The Gazan Red Crescent did not provide journalists with clear evidence that Israel either targeted the Ambulance or that Hind was there. In this war, there are numerous lies, and it will be far for the objective to state as a fact that Israelis killed her. Amitport2 ( talk) 08:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 ( talk) 15:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply
It's false that the Red Crescent provided no evidence. They have released audio of the Rajab girls describing themselves as being shot at by a tank. No force in Palestine operates tanks but the Israeli army. So we have direct, eyewitness testimony Israel killed the Rajab family. The car where Hind was found was also in Israeli-controlled area. As for the many lies being told in this conflict, they have overwhelmingly come from the pro-Israeli side... Peleio Aquiles ( talk) 23:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply


Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

The Israeli operation deliberately killed two Palestine Red Crescent Society members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her, according to the aid group.
+
According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, the Israeli operation deliberately killed the two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her.

The word 'deliberately' is just a little loaded... I think should still be used in the lead because it is what the PRCS is reporting, but it would be better to have it read after 'according to the aid group'. Just feels like it helps maintain a more neutral tone. Also, it makes the sentence a little more succinct.

Cowlan ( talk) 02:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Seems to have already been done. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:29, 31 March 2024 (UTC) reply

References

Including Contextual Audio

I think it would be appropriate to include the related audio of Hind (in the section where the location and photo is). The source audio is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1753434287402004548

I also think it would be appropriate to include audio from her cousin, Layan Hamadeh, in the background section. Same source - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1752277801590276397

Here's a secondary source to verify the validity of each audio - https://www.thedailybeast.com/listen-missing-gaza-girl-hind-rajab-trapped-in-car-in-israeli-shoot-out 108.92.161.173 ( talk) 03:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

We can't use them without family permission. Not sure they would be of much use on English Wikipedia anyway. You can possibly check with Commons whether they'd accept it. — kashmīrī  TALK 03:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Discovery of her body two _weeks later!_ Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

Please add: Relatives eventually found Hind’s body inside the car alongside the dead bodies of five of her family members and the bodies of the two rescue workers 12 days later, once the Israeli forces had withdrawn from the area.

 Already done The information is in the article now 『π』 BalaM314 〘talk〙 04:49, 7 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Sources:

93.211.214.241 ( talk) 13:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

5 or 6 years old?

[1] https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6152/Gaza:-Initial-findings-show-Israeli-army-purposefully-kills-a-child,-uses-an-American-made-missile-to-target-her-rescue-crew [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/middleeast/israel-gaza-hind-missing-girl-prcs-intl-hnk/index.html

Multiple reliable sources are stating that Hind was 5 years old at time of death, not 6. The CNN story specifies a correction to her age. Aleaniled ( talk) 15:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Donekashmīrī  TALK 01:05, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Number of cousins


  • What I think should be changed (format using {{ textdiff}}):
    killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and three cousins
    +
    killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and four cousins
  • Why it should be changed: There seems to be some confusion between outlets about whether she was traveling with four cousins including Layan or four cousins in addition to Layan, but this Washington Post article suggests there were four, and gives their names and ages.
  • References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): [1]

NomadicThora ( talk) 18:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Done Ok123l ( talk) 08:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Uncensored audio: a link to it

I could not find uncensored audio of this incident in any of the usual sources, such as YouTube, news channels and so on. Especially the most impactful/relevant part, where the shots are fired that killed Hind Rajab. I don't have time to edit the page and am no longer sure of wikipedia's editing rules. Nevertheless, in case it is found useful, here is a source. It may only be available to Australians, or it may not. The story is at 4m7secs: https://iview.abc.net.au/video/FA2335H003S00 The program is MEDIA WATCH, a program on the public broadcaster of Australia (ABC) that monitors and critiques the media. It has been around for decades, is known for its attempts to be balanced, and is respected by the public. Accurate Nuanced Clear ( talk) 15:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Add audio link of the phone call

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Add audio link of the phone call to the article BazookaIce ( talk) 20:42, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Read above at #Including Contextual Audio. — kashmīrī  TALK 01:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2024

Please add that the Israel Defense Forces launched a preliminary investigation that claims they are not af fault as they weren't present in the area at the time. See source here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 147.235.201.53 ( talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

adding. nableezy - 15:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Killing was not deliberate and seems to not be IDF at all

Please change Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her,to Hamas, a terrorist organisation, incorrectly accuses the IDF of attacking the ambulance

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 2A02:14F:173:16F4:0:0:14B0:274A ( talk) 15:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Because the IDF says so? nableezy - 15:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The IDF is not a reliable source. LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 00:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The most mendacious army in the world. Peleio Aquiles ( talk) 13:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Israeli investigation

@ CommissarDoggo: Not sure why you reverted my edit here, instead of simply replacing "ambulance" with "vehicle". The quote needs to be reduced and transformed into normal text. Makeandtoss ( talk) 17:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ah, my apologies, I didn't realise that was what you were trying to do, admittedly I did look at the edit rather quickly. CommissarDoggo Talk? 17:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Reverted it back now and made that change. CommissarDoggo Talk? 17:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

A couple items

1. With all sympathy (this is a horrible, sad story that deserves all appropriate coverage), but the tabloid style use of quotations her appeals for help on an emergency call is not appropriate (nor significant enough) for the lede. The length of the call is what's notable - not quotations of a child asking for help. It is also already in the body of the article in its appropriate section covering the timeline.

2. The items pertaining to South Africa @ ICJ are not relevant to this article. Mistamystery ( talk) 23:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Widely reported on quote by RS and is significant enough for the lede. Makeandtoss ( talk) 21:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

She was six-year-old

Even the source says she was six-year-old, someone changed the title and added false information. 2A00:A041:E62F:5500:F023:D29D:AA15:F925 ( talk) 03:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Npov

"According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her, killing two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel was notified of its dispatch. Israel has said that its troops were not near the vehicle in which Hind was killed. Al Jazeera disputed the finding, reporting that there had been three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; a fact confirmed by later Washington Post investigation based on satellite imagery."

The paragraph does not include a mention of times because there is a difference between an initial investigation and an investigation done one or two months later because often the information accumulates as one digs deeper.

I offer: 

"According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue 6-year-old Rajab, and killed the two paramedics in it, Yosuf Zaino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel had been notified of its dispatch.[5] According to the IDF's initial investigation, there were no soldiers in the area where the girl was killed; [7] about a month later, Al-Jazeera disputed the claim, and reported that there were three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; [8] a fact that was confirmed by a later investigation More of the Washington Post based on satellite images. [1] The investigation of the incident was transferred in February to the fact-checking mechanism of the General Staff, which was described as an independent military body responsible for investigating unusual events during the war."

I am basing myself on the dates in the articles and Magid's Israel Times article 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 10:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Npov

'During the Israel–Hamas war and the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israel issued evacuation orders. South Africa brought Israel to the International Court of Justice on 29 December 2023 for genocide, and on 26 January 2024, the Court issued an Order instructing Israel to take all measures to prevent any acts than can be considered genocidal.'

I am not clear about the connection between the text and the event and it is not based on a source.


i offer to write, based on Washington post: "on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas militants stormed border communities in southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, including civilians in their homes and young people at a concert, and taking at least 240 hostages back to Gaza. The assault drew a response from Israel, which insists its campaign is necessary to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities.

More than 75 percent of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million has been displaced by the fighting, many residents multiple times, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). The Hamada family fled their houses; some went south, while others sheltered closer to home, in the nearby Tel al-Hawa neighborhood in western Gaza City." 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

BAD EDITING

Please fix this: "Rajab and her relatives were killed in a "planned execution" by the Israeli army, who also killed the Red Crescent paramedics sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"

"sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"???

Please change the passage to read "...by the IDF using a US-made missile, ...sent to rescue Rajab."

2603:6010:4500:7061:D817:23BC:B75E:C677 ( talk) 11:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 February 2024

The page refers several times to Israeli forces killing Hind, while all the cited sources state that there was no clear evidence of that and only write she was "found dead" or "killed." The Gazan Red Crescent did not provide journalists with clear evidence that Israel either targeted the Ambulance or that Hind was there. In this war, there are numerous lies, and it will be far for the objective to state as a fact that Israelis killed her. Amitport2 ( talk) 08:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 ( talk) 15:41, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply
It's false that the Red Crescent provided no evidence. They have released audio of the Rajab girls describing themselves as being shot at by a tank. No force in Palestine operates tanks but the Israeli army. So we have direct, eyewitness testimony Israel killed the Rajab family. The car where Hind was found was also in Israeli-controlled area. As for the many lies being told in this conflict, they have overwhelmingly come from the pro-Israeli side... Peleio Aquiles ( talk) 23:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply


Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

The Israeli operation deliberately killed two Palestine Red Crescent Society members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her, according to the aid group.
+
According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, the Israeli operation deliberately killed the two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her.

The word 'deliberately' is just a little loaded... I think should still be used in the lead because it is what the PRCS is reporting, but it would be better to have it read after 'according to the aid group'. Just feels like it helps maintain a more neutral tone. Also, it makes the sentence a little more succinct.

Cowlan ( talk) 02:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Seems to have already been done. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:29, 31 March 2024 (UTC) reply

References

Including Contextual Audio

I think it would be appropriate to include the related audio of Hind (in the section where the location and photo is). The source audio is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1753434287402004548

I also think it would be appropriate to include audio from her cousin, Layan Hamadeh, in the background section. Same source - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1752277801590276397

Here's a secondary source to verify the validity of each audio - https://www.thedailybeast.com/listen-missing-gaza-girl-hind-rajab-trapped-in-car-in-israeli-shoot-out 108.92.161.173 ( talk) 03:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

We can't use them without family permission. Not sure they would be of much use on English Wikipedia anyway. You can possibly check with Commons whether they'd accept it. — kashmīrī  TALK 03:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Discovery of her body two _weeks later!_ Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

Please add: Relatives eventually found Hind’s body inside the car alongside the dead bodies of five of her family members and the bodies of the two rescue workers 12 days later, once the Israeli forces had withdrawn from the area.

 Already done The information is in the article now 『π』 BalaM314 〘talk〙 04:49, 7 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Sources:

93.211.214.241 ( talk) 13:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

5 or 6 years old?

[1] https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6152/Gaza:-Initial-findings-show-Israeli-army-purposefully-kills-a-child,-uses-an-American-made-missile-to-target-her-rescue-crew [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/middleeast/israel-gaza-hind-missing-girl-prcs-intl-hnk/index.html

Multiple reliable sources are stating that Hind was 5 years old at time of death, not 6. The CNN story specifies a correction to her age. Aleaniled ( talk) 15:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Donekashmīrī  TALK 01:05, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Number of cousins


  • What I think should be changed (format using {{ textdiff}}):
    killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and three cousins
    +
    killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and four cousins
  • Why it should be changed: There seems to be some confusion between outlets about whether she was traveling with four cousins including Layan or four cousins in addition to Layan, but this Washington Post article suggests there were four, and gives their names and ages.
  • References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): [1]

NomadicThora ( talk) 18:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Done Ok123l ( talk) 08:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Uncensored audio: a link to it

I could not find uncensored audio of this incident in any of the usual sources, such as YouTube, news channels and so on. Especially the most impactful/relevant part, where the shots are fired that killed Hind Rajab. I don't have time to edit the page and am no longer sure of wikipedia's editing rules. Nevertheless, in case it is found useful, here is a source. It may only be available to Australians, or it may not. The story is at 4m7secs: https://iview.abc.net.au/video/FA2335H003S00 The program is MEDIA WATCH, a program on the public broadcaster of Australia (ABC) that monitors and critiques the media. It has been around for decades, is known for its attempts to be balanced, and is respected by the public. Accurate Nuanced Clear ( talk) 15:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Add audio link of the phone call

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Add audio link of the phone call to the article BazookaIce ( talk) 20:42, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Read above at #Including Contextual Audio. — kashmīrī  TALK 01:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2024

Please add that the Israel Defense Forces launched a preliminary investigation that claims they are not af fault as they weren't present in the area at the time. See source here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 147.235.201.53 ( talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

adding. nableezy - 15:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Killing was not deliberate and seems to not be IDF at all

Please change Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her,to Hamas, a terrorist organisation, incorrectly accuses the IDF of attacking the ambulance

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 2A02:14F:173:16F4:0:0:14B0:274A ( talk) 15:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Because the IDF says so? nableezy - 15:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The IDF is not a reliable source. LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 00:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The most mendacious army in the world. Peleio Aquiles ( talk) 13:51, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Israeli investigation

@ CommissarDoggo: Not sure why you reverted my edit here, instead of simply replacing "ambulance" with "vehicle". The quote needs to be reduced and transformed into normal text. Makeandtoss ( talk) 17:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ah, my apologies, I didn't realise that was what you were trying to do, admittedly I did look at the edit rather quickly. CommissarDoggo Talk? 17:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Reverted it back now and made that change. CommissarDoggo Talk? 17:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

A couple items

1. With all sympathy (this is a horrible, sad story that deserves all appropriate coverage), but the tabloid style use of quotations her appeals for help on an emergency call is not appropriate (nor significant enough) for the lede. The length of the call is what's notable - not quotations of a child asking for help. It is also already in the body of the article in its appropriate section covering the timeline.

2. The items pertaining to South Africa @ ICJ are not relevant to this article. Mistamystery ( talk) 23:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Widely reported on quote by RS and is significant enough for the lede. Makeandtoss ( talk) 21:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

She was six-year-old

Even the source says she was six-year-old, someone changed the title and added false information. 2A00:A041:E62F:5500:F023:D29D:AA15:F925 ( talk) 03:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Npov

"According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her, killing two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel was notified of its dispatch. Israel has said that its troops were not near the vehicle in which Hind was killed. Al Jazeera disputed the finding, reporting that there had been three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; a fact confirmed by later Washington Post investigation based on satellite imagery."

The paragraph does not include a mention of times because there is a difference between an initial investigation and an investigation done one or two months later because often the information accumulates as one digs deeper.

I offer: 

"According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue 6-year-old Rajab, and killed the two paramedics in it, Yosuf Zaino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel had been notified of its dispatch.[5] According to the IDF's initial investigation, there were no soldiers in the area where the girl was killed; [7] about a month later, Al-Jazeera disputed the claim, and reported that there were three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; [8] a fact that was confirmed by a later investigation More of the Washington Post based on satellite images. [1] The investigation of the incident was transferred in February to the fact-checking mechanism of the General Staff, which was described as an independent military body responsible for investigating unusual events during the war."

I am basing myself on the dates in the articles and Magid's Israel Times article 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 10:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Npov

'During the Israel–Hamas war and the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israel issued evacuation orders. South Africa brought Israel to the International Court of Justice on 29 December 2023 for genocide, and on 26 January 2024, the Court issued an Order instructing Israel to take all measures to prevent any acts than can be considered genocidal.'

I am not clear about the connection between the text and the event and it is not based on a source.


i offer to write, based on Washington post: "on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas militants stormed border communities in southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, including civilians in their homes and young people at a concert, and taking at least 240 hostages back to Gaza. The assault drew a response from Israel, which insists its campaign is necessary to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities.

More than 75 percent of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million has been displaced by the fighting, many residents multiple times, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). The Hamada family fled their houses; some went south, while others sheltered closer to home, in the nearby Tel al-Hawa neighborhood in western Gaza City." 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply

BAD EDITING

Please fix this: "Rajab and her relatives were killed in a "planned execution" by the Israeli army, who also killed the Red Crescent paramedics sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"

"sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"???

Please change the passage to read "...by the IDF using a US-made missile, ...sent to rescue Rajab."

2603:6010:4500:7061:D817:23BC:B75E:C677 ( talk) 11:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply


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