This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Killing of Hind Rajab article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The page refers several times to Israeli forces killing Hind, while all the cited sources state that there was no clear evidence of that and only write she was "found dead" or "killed." The Gazan Red Crescent did not provide journalists with clear evidence that Israel either targeted the Ambulance or that Hind was there. In this war, there are numerous lies, and it will be far for the objective to state as a fact that Israelis killed her. Amitport2 ( talk) 08:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | + | According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, the Israeli operation deliberately killed the two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her. |
The word 'deliberately' is just a little loaded... I think should still be used in the lead because it is what the PRCS is reporting, but it would be better to have it read after 'according to the aid group'. Just feels like it helps maintain a more neutral tone. Also, it makes the sentence a little more succinct.
Cowlan ( talk) 02:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
References
I think it would be appropriate to include the related audio of Hind (in the section where the location and photo is). The source audio is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1753434287402004548
I also think it would be appropriate to include audio from her cousin, Layan Hamadeh, in the background section. Same source - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1752277801590276397
Here's a secondary source to verify the validity of each audio - https://www.thedailybeast.com/listen-missing-gaza-girl-hind-rajab-trapped-in-car-in-israeli-shoot-out 108.92.161.173 ( talk) 03:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add: Relatives eventually found Hind’s body inside the car alongside the dead bodies of five of her family members and the bodies of the two rescue workers 12 days later, once the Israeli forces had withdrawn from the area.
Sources:
93.211.214.241 ( talk) 13:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
[1] https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6152/Gaza:-Initial-findings-show-Israeli-army-purposefully-kills-a-child,-uses-an-American-made-missile-to-target-her-rescue-crew [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/middleeast/israel-gaza-hind-missing-girl-prcs-intl-hnk/index.html
Multiple reliable sources are stating that Hind was 5 years old at time of death, not 6. The CNN story specifies a correction to her age. Aleaniled ( talk) 15:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and | + | killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and four cousins |
NomadicThora ( talk) 18:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
References
I could not find uncensored audio of this incident in any of the usual sources, such as YouTube, news channels and so on. Especially the most impactful/relevant part, where the shots are fired that killed Hind Rajab. I don't have time to edit the page and am no longer sure of wikipedia's editing rules. Nevertheless, in case it is found useful, here is a source. It may only be available to Australians, or it may not. The story is at 4m7secs: https://iview.abc.net.au/video/FA2335H003S00 The program is MEDIA WATCH, a program on the public broadcaster of Australia (ABC) that monitors and critiques the media. It has been around for decades, is known for its attempts to be balanced, and is respected by the public. Accurate Nuanced Clear ( talk) 15:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Add audio link of the phone call to the article BazookaIce ( talk) 20:42, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add that the Israel Defense Forces launched a preliminary investigation that claims they are not af fault as they weren't present in the area at the time. See source here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 147.235.201.53 ( talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Please change Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her,to Hamas, a terrorist organisation, incorrectly accuses the IDF of attacking the ambulance
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 2A02:14F:173:16F4:0:0:14B0:274A ( talk) 15:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
@ CommissarDoggo: Not sure why you reverted my edit here, instead of simply replacing "ambulance" with "vehicle". The quote needs to be reduced and transformed into normal text. Makeandtoss ( talk) 17:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
1. With all sympathy (this is a horrible, sad story that deserves all appropriate coverage), but the tabloid style use of quotations her appeals for help on an emergency call is not appropriate (nor significant enough) for the lede. The length of the call is what's notable - not quotations of a child asking for help. It is also already in the body of the article in its appropriate section covering the timeline.
2. The items pertaining to South Africa @ ICJ are not relevant to this article. Mistamystery ( talk) 23:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Even the source says she was six-year-old, someone changed the title and added false information. 2A00:A041:E62F:5500:F023:D29D:AA15:F925 ( talk) 03:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
"According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her, killing two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel was notified of its dispatch. Israel has said that its troops were not near the vehicle in which Hind was killed. Al Jazeera disputed the finding, reporting that there had been three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; a fact confirmed by later Washington Post investigation based on satellite imagery."
The paragraph does not include a mention of times because there is a difference between an initial investigation and an investigation done one or two months later because often the information accumulates as one digs deeper.
I offer:
"According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue 6-year-old Rajab, and killed the two paramedics in it, Yosuf Zaino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel had been notified of its dispatch.[5] According to the IDF's initial investigation, there were no soldiers in the area where the girl was killed; [7] about a month later, Al-Jazeera disputed the claim, and reported that there were three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; [8] a fact that was confirmed by a later investigation More of the Washington Post based on satellite images. [1] The investigation of the incident was transferred in February to the fact-checking mechanism of the General Staff, which was described as an independent military body responsible for investigating unusual events during the war."
I am basing myself on the dates in the articles and Magid's Israel Times article 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 10:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
'During the Israel–Hamas war and the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israel issued evacuation orders. South Africa brought Israel to the International Court of Justice on 29 December 2023 for genocide, and on 26 January 2024, the Court issued an Order instructing Israel to take all measures to prevent any acts than can be considered genocidal.'
I am not clear about the connection between the text and the event and it is not based on a source.
i offer to write,
based on Washington post:
"on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas militants stormed border communities in southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, including civilians in their homes and young people at a concert, and taking at least 240 hostages back to Gaza. The assault drew a response from Israel, which insists its campaign is necessary to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities.
More than 75 percent of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million has been displaced by the fighting, many residents multiple times, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). The Hamada family fled their houses; some went south, while others sheltered closer to home, in the nearby Tel al-Hawa neighborhood in western Gaza City." 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Please fix this: "Rajab and her relatives were killed in a "planned execution" by the Israeli army, who also killed the Red Crescent paramedics sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"
"sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"???
Please change the passage to read "...by the IDF using a US-made missile, ...sent to rescue Rajab."
2603:6010:4500:7061:D817:23BC:B75E:C677 ( talk) 11:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Killing of Hind Rajab article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The page refers several times to Israeli forces killing Hind, while all the cited sources state that there was no clear evidence of that and only write she was "found dead" or "killed." The Gazan Red Crescent did not provide journalists with clear evidence that Israel either targeted the Ambulance or that Hind was there. In this war, there are numerous lies, and it will be far for the objective to state as a fact that Israelis killed her. Amitport2 ( talk) 08:22, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | + | According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, the Israeli operation deliberately killed the two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, sent to rescue her. |
The word 'deliberately' is just a little loaded... I think should still be used in the lead because it is what the PRCS is reporting, but it would be better to have it read after 'according to the aid group'. Just feels like it helps maintain a more neutral tone. Also, it makes the sentence a little more succinct.
Cowlan ( talk) 02:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
References
I think it would be appropriate to include the related audio of Hind (in the section where the location and photo is). The source audio is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1753434287402004548
I also think it would be appropriate to include audio from her cousin, Layan Hamadeh, in the background section. Same source - https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1752277801590276397
Here's a secondary source to verify the validity of each audio - https://www.thedailybeast.com/listen-missing-gaza-girl-hind-rajab-trapped-in-car-in-israeli-shoot-out 108.92.161.173 ( talk) 03:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add: Relatives eventually found Hind’s body inside the car alongside the dead bodies of five of her family members and the bodies of the two rescue workers 12 days later, once the Israeli forces had withdrawn from the area.
Sources:
93.211.214.241 ( talk) 13:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
[1] https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6152/Gaza:-Initial-findings-show-Israeli-army-purposefully-kills-a-child,-uses-an-American-made-missile-to-target-her-rescue-crew [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/middleeast/israel-gaza-hind-missing-girl-prcs-intl-hnk/index.html
Multiple reliable sources are stating that Hind was 5 years old at time of death, not 6. The CNN story specifies a correction to her age. Aleaniled ( talk) 15:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and | + | killing Rajab's aunt, uncle, and four cousins |
NomadicThora ( talk) 18:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
References
I could not find uncensored audio of this incident in any of the usual sources, such as YouTube, news channels and so on. Especially the most impactful/relevant part, where the shots are fired that killed Hind Rajab. I don't have time to edit the page and am no longer sure of wikipedia's editing rules. Nevertheless, in case it is found useful, here is a source. It may only be available to Australians, or it may not. The story is at 4m7secs: https://iview.abc.net.au/video/FA2335H003S00 The program is MEDIA WATCH, a program on the public broadcaster of Australia (ABC) that monitors and critiques the media. It has been around for decades, is known for its attempts to be balanced, and is respected by the public. Accurate Nuanced Clear ( talk) 15:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Add audio link of the phone call to the article BazookaIce ( talk) 20:42, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add that the Israel Defense Forces launched a preliminary investigation that claims they are not af fault as they weren't present in the area at the time. See source here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 147.235.201.53 ( talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Please change Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her,to Hamas, a terrorist organisation, incorrectly accuses the IDF of attacking the ambulance
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-probe-indicates-no-troops-were-in-area-where-6-year-old-gazan-girl-was-killed/ 2A02:14F:173:16F4:0:0:14B0:274A ( talk) 15:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
@ CommissarDoggo: Not sure why you reverted my edit here, instead of simply replacing "ambulance" with "vehicle". The quote needs to be reduced and transformed into normal text. Makeandtoss ( talk) 17:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
1. With all sympathy (this is a horrible, sad story that deserves all appropriate coverage), but the tabloid style use of quotations her appeals for help on an emergency call is not appropriate (nor significant enough) for the lede. The length of the call is what's notable - not quotations of a child asking for help. It is also already in the body of the article in its appropriate section covering the timeline.
2. The items pertaining to South Africa @ ICJ are not relevant to this article. Mistamystery ( talk) 23:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Even the source says she was six-year-old, someone changed the title and added false information. 2A00:A041:E62F:5500:F023:D29D:AA15:F925 ( talk) 03:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
"According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue her, killing two PRCS members, Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel was notified of its dispatch. Israel has said that its troops were not near the vehicle in which Hind was killed. Al Jazeera disputed the finding, reporting that there had been three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; a fact confirmed by later Washington Post investigation based on satellite imagery."
The paragraph does not include a mention of times because there is a difference between an initial investigation and an investigation done one or two months later because often the information accumulates as one digs deeper.
I offer:
"According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, Israeli forces deliberately attacked the ambulance sent to rescue 6-year-old Rajab, and killed the two paramedics in it, Yosuf Zaino and Ahmed al-Madhoun, despite the fact that Israel had been notified of its dispatch.[5] According to the IDF's initial investigation, there were no soldiers in the area where the girl was killed; [7] about a month later, Al-Jazeera disputed the claim, and reported that there were three Israeli tanks in the area at the time; [8] a fact that was confirmed by a later investigation More of the Washington Post based on satellite images. [1] The investigation of the incident was transferred in February to the fact-checking mechanism of the General Staff, which was described as an independent military body responsible for investigating unusual events during the war."
I am basing myself on the dates in the articles and Magid's Israel Times article 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 10:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
'During the Israel–Hamas war and the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israel issued evacuation orders. South Africa brought Israel to the International Court of Justice on 29 December 2023 for genocide, and on 26 January 2024, the Court issued an Order instructing Israel to take all measures to prevent any acts than can be considered genocidal.'
I am not clear about the connection between the text and the event and it is not based on a source.
i offer to write,
based on Washington post:
"on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas militants stormed border communities in southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people, including civilians in their homes and young people at a concert, and taking at least 240 hostages back to Gaza. The assault drew a response from Israel, which insists its campaign is necessary to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities.
More than 75 percent of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million has been displaced by the fighting, many residents multiple times, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). The Hamada family fled their houses; some went south, while others sheltered closer to home, in the nearby Tel al-Hawa neighborhood in western Gaza City." 2.55.51.116 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Please fix this: "Rajab and her relatives were killed in a "planned execution" by the Israeli army, who also killed the Red Crescent paramedics sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"
"sent to rescue the young girl with a US-made missile"???
Please change the passage to read "...by the IDF using a US-made missile, ...sent to rescue Rajab."
2603:6010:4500:7061:D817:23BC:B75E:C677 ( talk) 11:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)