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The contents of the Ingmar Guandique page were merged into Killing of Chandra Levy. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This statement is incorrect based on testimony given by FBI in Guandique trial: "The last search at 12:24 p.m. was for the location of the Pierce-Klingle Mansion,[7] a historic house in Rock Creek Park that is used as the park's administrative office."
I pulled up two news articles from my 2001 archives that states she signed off internet about 1 p.m. This was widely reported and I document in my book Murder on a Horse Trail.
Then in 2010 Guandique trial, it was specified in more detail: McClatchy October 28, 2010
....FBI supervisory special agent Jane Dombowski traced Levy’s last virtual steps.... At 12:59 p.m. May 1, with a final, unexplained search for information on the French province of Alsace-Lorraine, the user of Levy’s computer signed off the Internet. “That was the last Internet file I was able to find,” Dombowski testified....
end quote
Generally when incorrect information is posted in this article, it's to further an agenda of Chandra being a jogger in Rock Creek Park. This also for some reason a time given which is supposed to bolster Condit not being involved because he had a meeting with Cheney at 12:30.
In any event this information posted in the article has no basis whatsoever and is in direct conflict with testimony given by FBI. I'm not comfortable just editing the article but if moderators could consider who entered this info and based on what this incorrect information could be replaced with the FBI testimony I quoted above. Note the [7] and [8] references are to generic information about the Rock Creek Park building. The last search at 12:24 on Rock Creek Park implies that she was off the internet a half hour earlier, is meant to coincide with Condit's meeting, and implies as last thing she did that she then went there. This of course is all false and has an agenda behind it.
I will post this on my site and at least alert who I can of this scam. It came to my attention tonight because a cable host of a crime show is citing this information in documentaries on Chandra for said agenda.
Thanks for your consideration.-- Ralphdaugherty ( talk) 06:03, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
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I formally propose renaming to "Murder of Chandra Levy", as the article overwhelmingly focuses on the murder.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Volvlogia ( talk • contribs)
If you want to start another one, especially now that it's been more than 20 years since the disappearance and death of a non-notable young woman became a notable event (as you have noticed), go ahead, but be forewarned. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:28, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello,
Any thoughts on adding a section titled "In popular culture", there are many television episodes reporting on the Chandra Levy case.
Thank you,
Vwanweb (
talk) 04:49, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello, all. Perhaps it's just me, but I really feel that the following sentence requires clarification:
"Police commanders ordered the search perimeters to 100 yards of each road and trail but a miscommunication had the officers only searching within 100 yards of every road."
I'm quite confused about what this means as phrased. Can someone perhaps clarify it? It's an important point vis-a-vis the mishandling of the search for Levy, so it seems to me it warrants correction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.110.242.175 ( talk) 22:13, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to Killing of Chandra Levy as per nominated. There is a consensus that the article satisfy WP:BIO1E, thus the request to move from the current title, Chandra Levy, is not disputed. Pertinent to the request is the new naming of the article. There are alternatives proposed to the nominated title: 'Death/Murder of' with contention between 'Killing of' and 'Death of'. The reasoning for both are persuasive, however having going through the arguments, I lean slightly more towards 'Killing of', particularly due to the homicide ruling. There is also a rough consensus to move to Killing of Chandra Levy among the participants. The discussion has run for long enough, with the start being 1 month and 8 days ago from now, and the last message here being 18 days ago. I am closing this discussion with the option to bring this up to WP:MRV as allowed under WP:NOGOODOPTIONS if anyone feels strongly against the move. – robertsky ( talk) 06:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
An issue in those previous discussions was the lack of clear naming policy behind the move. That is no longer the case.
Since then, further discussions of the issue have led to WP:NCDEATH, the flowchart for which leads us to the more appropriate title of Killing of Chandra Levy: the medical examiner ruled her death a homicide. A suspect was convicted, but after that verdict was overturned on appeal the prosecution decided against a retrial, dropping the charges and having the suspect deported to his native El Salvador instead. So homicide - conviction="Killing of ..."
Beyond that is the question, doggedly answered as "yes" by so many opponents of the move in the previous discussions, of whether Levy was notable enough apart from her disappearance and death to justify her name alone as the article title. Sentimentality prevailed, or was allowed to prevail, in 2016, even though no one arguing from that premise could really say what we might have known about her but for her demise.
Similarly, in 2013, we had less of these articles about a notable event centered around a non-notable, usually dead or missing, person, and those that we had were often still titled after the person, rather than the event. There were so few of those latterly-titled articles that one participant in that debate could somewhat credibly claim at the time that this attempt to rename the article was a symptom of institutional sexism and that no article about a similarly situated straight white man would even get considered for such a rename (even though evidence to the contrary had already been introduced).
Again, that no longer holds. Due to the work of myself and others, we have today many more articles about the dead and missing, regardless of gender, all of which are generally titled "Death/Murder/Disappearance of ..." without objection, save for those notable for something else during their lives that would be notable by our standards even if they had not met such an ignoble end.
It is 2022. It has been more than two decades since Ms. Levy's disappearance and the intrigues it revealed captured the idle fancies of America over that last good summer before 9/11 (and made some history, I think, as the first major missing persons case where the disappeared person's Internet search results were a possible clue). It is almost that much time since her remains were found.
A whole generation of Americans has grown up and reached college since then. I cannot imagine that they, looking upon this article, would not ask the same question that the 2018 poster whose remarks that I belatedly discovered last month did. And even for those of us well graced with the years to remember this affair, it is " a distant ship, smoke on the horizon". While no one would want it so, the dark clouds that hover still are her fate, not her life, and it is so that this article should be retitled. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:57, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
What the media calls it really has no bearing.Only when there's no commonly used name describing the event per WP:NCDEATHS#Flowchart and WP:NCDEATHS#How to use the flowchart ( image). Have you found a commonly used name yet? George Ho ( talk) 05:43, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Honestly I think the "common name" thing was meant to cover situations like, say, the Good Hart murders, where the crime gains a briefly popular sobriquet based on some aspect other than its victim or victims (note that that link now redirects to the article named for the slain family). The only single-victim homicide I can think of whose popular name persists at the expense of the victim's name would be Black Dahlia, which if that name ever faded from use we'd rename to Killing of Elizabeth Short. Daniel Case ( talk) 06:04, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I contrast this with two articles I've worked on extensively about contentious deaths, both of which interestingly have a connection to Middlesex County, New Jersey, near where I grew up.
I renamed, without controversy, Death of Timothy Wiltsey from "Murder of Timothy Wiltsey" a month ago after the New Jersey Supreme Court vacated his mother's conviction. As in that case, we had only bones to work from, bones found exposed after months in (presumably) open air, bones which led to a murder conviction which also no longer stands.
So why not "Killing of ..."? Certainly the Middlesex County prosecutor's office still sees the case that way, but ... the only official finding of the cause of death came from the medical examiner who looked at the bones when they were originally discovered and said that there was not enough evidence to make a finding, therefore the death was of undetermined cause. Yes, at his mother's 2016 trial another pathologist who'd worked for the county (she was retired by then and testified because the medical examiner who made the earlier finding had died) said the death was a homicide. But her opinion, though given under oath, does not displace the original finding because they didn't reissue the death certificate as far as I've been able to tell. (And it was largely, she admitted, because she eliminated other possible causes, like accident or suicide, as unlikely, and because of the other aspects of the prosecution case). So I am comfortable with that article staying "Death of ...".
Likewise, Killing of Geetha Angara is so named because that's still what the county prosecutor's office considers it, even if its investigation produced no arrests or suspects. A pathologist who is one of the leading international experts on drowning deaths, when sent the records from her case, has expressed the possibility that the signs of apparent strangulation that have led to "homicide" as the official finding may in fact be the results of drowning in cold water. And while that's certainly notable and is indeed discussed at some length in the article, it still hasn't changed the official finding and therefore the name.
Again, this is the same logic that here leads me to make the distinction in how we name the article. Daniel Case ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Killing of Chandra Levy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Killing of Chandra Levy has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Ingmar Guandique page were merged into Killing of Chandra Levy. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This statement is incorrect based on testimony given by FBI in Guandique trial: "The last search at 12:24 p.m. was for the location of the Pierce-Klingle Mansion,[7] a historic house in Rock Creek Park that is used as the park's administrative office."
I pulled up two news articles from my 2001 archives that states she signed off internet about 1 p.m. This was widely reported and I document in my book Murder on a Horse Trail.
Then in 2010 Guandique trial, it was specified in more detail: McClatchy October 28, 2010
....FBI supervisory special agent Jane Dombowski traced Levy’s last virtual steps.... At 12:59 p.m. May 1, with a final, unexplained search for information on the French province of Alsace-Lorraine, the user of Levy’s computer signed off the Internet. “That was the last Internet file I was able to find,” Dombowski testified....
end quote
Generally when incorrect information is posted in this article, it's to further an agenda of Chandra being a jogger in Rock Creek Park. This also for some reason a time given which is supposed to bolster Condit not being involved because he had a meeting with Cheney at 12:30.
In any event this information posted in the article has no basis whatsoever and is in direct conflict with testimony given by FBI. I'm not comfortable just editing the article but if moderators could consider who entered this info and based on what this incorrect information could be replaced with the FBI testimony I quoted above. Note the [7] and [8] references are to generic information about the Rock Creek Park building. The last search at 12:24 on Rock Creek Park implies that she was off the internet a half hour earlier, is meant to coincide with Condit's meeting, and implies as last thing she did that she then went there. This of course is all false and has an agenda behind it.
I will post this on my site and at least alert who I can of this scam. It came to my attention tonight because a cable host of a crime show is citing this information in documentaries on Chandra for said agenda.
Thanks for your consideration.-- Ralphdaugherty ( talk) 06:03, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Chandra Levy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:27, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
I formally propose renaming to "Murder of Chandra Levy", as the article overwhelmingly focuses on the murder.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Volvlogia ( talk • contribs)
If you want to start another one, especially now that it's been more than 20 years since the disappearance and death of a non-notable young woman became a notable event (as you have noticed), go ahead, but be forewarned. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:28, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello,
Any thoughts on adding a section titled "In popular culture", there are many television episodes reporting on the Chandra Levy case.
Thank you,
Vwanweb (
talk) 04:49, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello, all. Perhaps it's just me, but I really feel that the following sentence requires clarification:
"Police commanders ordered the search perimeters to 100 yards of each road and trail but a miscommunication had the officers only searching within 100 yards of every road."
I'm quite confused about what this means as phrased. Can someone perhaps clarify it? It's an important point vis-a-vis the mishandling of the search for Levy, so it seems to me it warrants correction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.110.242.175 ( talk) 22:13, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to Killing of Chandra Levy as per nominated. There is a consensus that the article satisfy WP:BIO1E, thus the request to move from the current title, Chandra Levy, is not disputed. Pertinent to the request is the new naming of the article. There are alternatives proposed to the nominated title: 'Death/Murder of' with contention between 'Killing of' and 'Death of'. The reasoning for both are persuasive, however having going through the arguments, I lean slightly more towards 'Killing of', particularly due to the homicide ruling. There is also a rough consensus to move to Killing of Chandra Levy among the participants. The discussion has run for long enough, with the start being 1 month and 8 days ago from now, and the last message here being 18 days ago. I am closing this discussion with the option to bring this up to WP:MRV as allowed under WP:NOGOODOPTIONS if anyone feels strongly against the move. – robertsky ( talk) 06:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
An issue in those previous discussions was the lack of clear naming policy behind the move. That is no longer the case.
Since then, further discussions of the issue have led to WP:NCDEATH, the flowchart for which leads us to the more appropriate title of Killing of Chandra Levy: the medical examiner ruled her death a homicide. A suspect was convicted, but after that verdict was overturned on appeal the prosecution decided against a retrial, dropping the charges and having the suspect deported to his native El Salvador instead. So homicide - conviction="Killing of ..."
Beyond that is the question, doggedly answered as "yes" by so many opponents of the move in the previous discussions, of whether Levy was notable enough apart from her disappearance and death to justify her name alone as the article title. Sentimentality prevailed, or was allowed to prevail, in 2016, even though no one arguing from that premise could really say what we might have known about her but for her demise.
Similarly, in 2013, we had less of these articles about a notable event centered around a non-notable, usually dead or missing, person, and those that we had were often still titled after the person, rather than the event. There were so few of those latterly-titled articles that one participant in that debate could somewhat credibly claim at the time that this attempt to rename the article was a symptom of institutional sexism and that no article about a similarly situated straight white man would even get considered for such a rename (even though evidence to the contrary had already been introduced).
Again, that no longer holds. Due to the work of myself and others, we have today many more articles about the dead and missing, regardless of gender, all of which are generally titled "Death/Murder/Disappearance of ..." without objection, save for those notable for something else during their lives that would be notable by our standards even if they had not met such an ignoble end.
It is 2022. It has been more than two decades since Ms. Levy's disappearance and the intrigues it revealed captured the idle fancies of America over that last good summer before 9/11 (and made some history, I think, as the first major missing persons case where the disappeared person's Internet search results were a possible clue). It is almost that much time since her remains were found.
A whole generation of Americans has grown up and reached college since then. I cannot imagine that they, looking upon this article, would not ask the same question that the 2018 poster whose remarks that I belatedly discovered last month did. And even for those of us well graced with the years to remember this affair, it is " a distant ship, smoke on the horizon". While no one would want it so, the dark clouds that hover still are her fate, not her life, and it is so that this article should be retitled. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:57, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
What the media calls it really has no bearing.Only when there's no commonly used name describing the event per WP:NCDEATHS#Flowchart and WP:NCDEATHS#How to use the flowchart ( image). Have you found a commonly used name yet? George Ho ( talk) 05:43, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Honestly I think the "common name" thing was meant to cover situations like, say, the Good Hart murders, where the crime gains a briefly popular sobriquet based on some aspect other than its victim or victims (note that that link now redirects to the article named for the slain family). The only single-victim homicide I can think of whose popular name persists at the expense of the victim's name would be Black Dahlia, which if that name ever faded from use we'd rename to Killing of Elizabeth Short. Daniel Case ( talk) 06:04, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I contrast this with two articles I've worked on extensively about contentious deaths, both of which interestingly have a connection to Middlesex County, New Jersey, near where I grew up.
I renamed, without controversy, Death of Timothy Wiltsey from "Murder of Timothy Wiltsey" a month ago after the New Jersey Supreme Court vacated his mother's conviction. As in that case, we had only bones to work from, bones found exposed after months in (presumably) open air, bones which led to a murder conviction which also no longer stands.
So why not "Killing of ..."? Certainly the Middlesex County prosecutor's office still sees the case that way, but ... the only official finding of the cause of death came from the medical examiner who looked at the bones when they were originally discovered and said that there was not enough evidence to make a finding, therefore the death was of undetermined cause. Yes, at his mother's 2016 trial another pathologist who'd worked for the county (she was retired by then and testified because the medical examiner who made the earlier finding had died) said the death was a homicide. But her opinion, though given under oath, does not displace the original finding because they didn't reissue the death certificate as far as I've been able to tell. (And it was largely, she admitted, because she eliminated other possible causes, like accident or suicide, as unlikely, and because of the other aspects of the prosecution case). So I am comfortable with that article staying "Death of ...".
Likewise, Killing of Geetha Angara is so named because that's still what the county prosecutor's office considers it, even if its investigation produced no arrests or suspects. A pathologist who is one of the leading international experts on drowning deaths, when sent the records from her case, has expressed the possibility that the signs of apparent strangulation that have led to "homicide" as the official finding may in fact be the results of drowning in cold water. And while that's certainly notable and is indeed discussed at some length in the article, it still hasn't changed the official finding and therefore the name.
Again, this is the same logic that here leads me to make the distinction in how we name the article. Daniel Case ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2022 (UTC)