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This article seems to have a slight POV-slant in favor of Landis. Also some statements present POV's as fact such as "Instead, Landis established a fiercly independent Commissioner's Office that would go on to make both players and owners generally miserable with decisions that were, generally, in the best interests of the game." Maybe his decisions where indeed mostly in the best interest of the game but it is still nonetheless POV. Such a POV needs to be attributed to someone(s) who claims this to be the case. -- Cab88 10:40, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Reverted edits by 12.75.199.199. Made major changes to the article that I feel were unwarranted, and several that were inaccurate. Also eliminated accurate facts, and changed link to his HOF plaque so it no longer worked. Therefore I reverted everything. If you think some changes were warranted, discuss them here. Novastarj 01:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
A temporary subpage at User:Polbot/fjc/Kenesaw Mountain Landis was automatically created by a perl script, based on this article at the Biographical Directory of Federal Judges. The subpage should either be merged into this article, or moved and disambiguated. Polbot ( talk) 02:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
From Leonard Koppett's "The New Thinking Fan's Guide to Baseball" (1991 ed., p. 252): "[N]ow that federal antitrust laws did exist and the Federal League was challenging the old leagues under them, the baseball establishment had found a friendly judge in Chicago named Kenesaw Mountain Landis. He immobilized the case until the Federal League backers gave up and sold their teams and their ballparks as best they could." Surely, this is a fact worth mentioning (and elaborating on) if someone has the details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.149.46 ( talk) 05:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
That year-old comment errs by understatement. So that this point is a little less likely to be lost, I have inserted the section heading "Federal League case". Here are some related wikipedia entries.
These articles do not adequately cover Judge Landis' role in the dispute. -- P64 ( talk) 23:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
(or baseball Commissioner) Which job did he accept November 1920, noted just above this section, the job as one-man Commissioner or the job described here, as head of a new National Commission? When did his tenure as one-man Commissioner begin? Under all the circumstances that seems at least as important as when he accepted that job offer, or the preceding one. -- P64 ( talk) 23:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I had always heard that the original spelling of Kennesaw was Kenesaw. At the time of the civil war, both spellings would have been considered correct. In publications from around the same time, Kennesaw is routinely spelled with one 'n' so to say that Kenesaw Mountain Landis' name comes from a misspelling of Kennesaw Mountain does not give his educated, physician father much credit.
See below for examples.
Photographic Archive using the one 'N' spelling of Kennesaw
Could we call it age instead of aged? I don't think aged is correct. Longinus876 ( talk) 05:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
To editors one and all, I found this a thouroughly informative and enjoyable read. I knew of the subject's name in relation to the Black Sox (amazing for a Brit you may say), so my curiosity was picqued, but I knew nothing of the rest. I do now. WillE ( talk) 19:36, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Two subjects worth covering with some research: First, one of his main criticisms of the farm system was that it deprived minor-league teams of an equal chance that the parent clubs had to compete for league titles, as the parent club might call up crucial players that were needed for the minor league team's stretch run. His position was that the size of the city and popularity of the league were ireelevant, as fans of a minor league team were just as deserving of a good, competitive team as fans of a major league one; when he confronted Rickey on this issue, Rickey suggested that it was a small issue, with Landis notably replying along the lines that it was not, but rather that it was as "big as a house". Second, given his background as a federal judge, it would be useful to look into how the constitutional doctrine of " separate but equal", then in effect, may have influenced his approach. MisfitToys ( talk) 22:19, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I am very active in the Paul Robeson article. One of the problems with it is authors (even modern day ones) ascribe him as being widely known for being pro-Communist before that was the case. Case in point, the FBI in internal memos had him, according to sources (Duberman), in August 1943 as labeled as 'a leading figure in the Communist party'. This however is not consistent with any contemporary source. Duberman is considered favorable to Robeson and his treatment of the December 4, 1943 meeting with MLB is erroneous and based on a terrible source. The latest source I have is ISBN 978-0-415-97938-2 pp. 128-129 and it basically states that Landis invited Robeson because he was a known pro-Communist and that would not sit well with the owners. All contemporary newspaper sources of that meeting show nothing but respect for Robeson and there is no mention whatsoever of his growing pro-Communist ties (the definitive sources on that meeting are the Pittsburgh Courier, and to a much lesser extent, the Chicago Defender).
Simple question: You folks are using: Pietrusza, David. Judge and Jury: The Life and Times of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis. South Bend, Indiana: Diamond Communications, 1998 as a source for that meeting, will that show me information that Landis knew of Hoover's view of Robeson's political leanings?
Due to the unbelievable overwhelming support for good old Uncle Joe (Stalin) during the war, I have to take into consideration that authors are jumping the gun on Robeson's pro-Communist, pro-Stalinist, and eventually Marxist leanings.
In this article I believe this: "[Robeson] was a controversial figure" is extremely poorly worded (if not unequivocally false if interpreted incorrectly due to the negative connotations associated with "controversial figures").
In this article I believe "due to his [known] affiliation with the Communist Party" needs to be further investigated by me.
In this article I suggest: In November 1943, Landis agreed after some persuasion that black sportswriter Sam Lacy should make a case for integration of organized baseball before the owners' annual meeting. Instead of Lacy attending the meeting, actor Paul Robeson did. Robeson, though a noted black actor and advocate of civil rights, was a controversial figure due to his affiliation with the Communist Party. The owners heard Robeson out, but at Landis's suggestion, did not ask him any questions or begin any discussion with him.
I do not care what you folks due with this article, all I want to know is what did Landis know about Robeson and when did he know it. Thanks in advance. 66.234.33.8 ( talk) 00:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Specifically regarding the point of being able to act in the interest of the sport: MLB's web site says the following:
(Note the bit about Landis writing his own contract is not covered in this source.) isaacl ( talk) 21:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
This article, referencing Pietrusza's biography (p. 415), reads:
The book itself reads:
However, Pietrusza's reference to southern Illinois is clearly incorrect. Later on the same page he quotes Powell as saying "I certainly would never mean to say anything offensive to the Negroes of Dayton, Chicago, or anything else. I have some good friends among the Negroes of Dayton."
Wikipedia's article on Jake Powell reads:
The Chicago Tribune of the next day (July 31, 1938, part 2, p. 2) does not give Powell's direct quote but mentions that he said "he worked as a policeman in Ohio, adding, in a jocular vein, that he used his 'club' on Negroes."
A similar report found in the Jacksonville (IL) Daily Journal the next day has the same paragraph, with the added information:
Several other digitized newspapers also refer to Dayton. It appears that the author simply flubbed this quote. I'll leave it up to the editors how to change it. FullnessOfTime ( talk) 21:47, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
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The 1923 and 1924 photos were clearly taken a the same game, likely within minutes of each others.
Mukogodo ( talk) 01:17, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:58, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
The current infobox photo has visible halftone markings and blurs at the edges. It looks like many of the photos of him are low quality, or have his face in an unusual expression. But I've found a few alternatives that seem worth considering.
I think Alt1 is he highest quality image. My two concerns are 1) I somewhat doubt the 1907 date, as that does not look like a 41 year-old to me. It's also of unknown origin, which might prevent a meaningful caption. 2) The spectacles obscure his face somewhat, and didn't seem to be a natural part of his appearance. Nonetheless, these don't seem to be a big deal, and I would vote for this as a replacement.
Alt2/Alt3 Have a bit of motion blur, and compared to the status quo probably show less detail in the center of the face, but more at the edges.
What do other think? Would Alt1 be an improvement on the status quo? MarginalCost ( talk) 16:08, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Angelgreat, can you set out where you see that Landis said "ever play professional baseball again"? I'm looking at The New York Times, August 4, 1921, page 1, "BASEBALL LEADERS WON'T LET WHITE SOX RETURN TO THE GAME; Judge Landis, Ban Johnson and Comiskey Not Moved by Jury Verdict." And Landis's statement is quoted, all three sentences, without the word "again" That's in addition to Cottrell, to whose book the statement is attributed. You mention that the Black Sox Scandal article contains "again", but the underlying source, this, does not say "again". The word "again" was added without substantiation or edit summary by an IP editor here. Not to mention this Google Books search. Even Eight Men Out, that I've just looked at a copy of, has it properly, though they add an exclamation mark. Under the circumstances, I'm restoring the previous version.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 15:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Kenesaw Mountain Landis is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 3, 2011. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article seems to have a slight POV-slant in favor of Landis. Also some statements present POV's as fact such as "Instead, Landis established a fiercly independent Commissioner's Office that would go on to make both players and owners generally miserable with decisions that were, generally, in the best interests of the game." Maybe his decisions where indeed mostly in the best interest of the game but it is still nonetheless POV. Such a POV needs to be attributed to someone(s) who claims this to be the case. -- Cab88 10:40, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Reverted edits by 12.75.199.199. Made major changes to the article that I feel were unwarranted, and several that were inaccurate. Also eliminated accurate facts, and changed link to his HOF plaque so it no longer worked. Therefore I reverted everything. If you think some changes were warranted, discuss them here. Novastarj 01:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
A temporary subpage at User:Polbot/fjc/Kenesaw Mountain Landis was automatically created by a perl script, based on this article at the Biographical Directory of Federal Judges. The subpage should either be merged into this article, or moved and disambiguated. Polbot ( talk) 02:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
From Leonard Koppett's "The New Thinking Fan's Guide to Baseball" (1991 ed., p. 252): "[N]ow that federal antitrust laws did exist and the Federal League was challenging the old leagues under them, the baseball establishment had found a friendly judge in Chicago named Kenesaw Mountain Landis. He immobilized the case until the Federal League backers gave up and sold their teams and their ballparks as best they could." Surely, this is a fact worth mentioning (and elaborating on) if someone has the details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.149.46 ( talk) 05:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
That year-old comment errs by understatement. So that this point is a little less likely to be lost, I have inserted the section heading "Federal League case". Here are some related wikipedia entries.
These articles do not adequately cover Judge Landis' role in the dispute. -- P64 ( talk) 23:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
(or baseball Commissioner) Which job did he accept November 1920, noted just above this section, the job as one-man Commissioner or the job described here, as head of a new National Commission? When did his tenure as one-man Commissioner begin? Under all the circumstances that seems at least as important as when he accepted that job offer, or the preceding one. -- P64 ( talk) 23:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I had always heard that the original spelling of Kennesaw was Kenesaw. At the time of the civil war, both spellings would have been considered correct. In publications from around the same time, Kennesaw is routinely spelled with one 'n' so to say that Kenesaw Mountain Landis' name comes from a misspelling of Kennesaw Mountain does not give his educated, physician father much credit.
See below for examples.
Photographic Archive using the one 'N' spelling of Kennesaw
Could we call it age instead of aged? I don't think aged is correct. Longinus876 ( talk) 05:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
To editors one and all, I found this a thouroughly informative and enjoyable read. I knew of the subject's name in relation to the Black Sox (amazing for a Brit you may say), so my curiosity was picqued, but I knew nothing of the rest. I do now. WillE ( talk) 19:36, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Two subjects worth covering with some research: First, one of his main criticisms of the farm system was that it deprived minor-league teams of an equal chance that the parent clubs had to compete for league titles, as the parent club might call up crucial players that were needed for the minor league team's stretch run. His position was that the size of the city and popularity of the league were ireelevant, as fans of a minor league team were just as deserving of a good, competitive team as fans of a major league one; when he confronted Rickey on this issue, Rickey suggested that it was a small issue, with Landis notably replying along the lines that it was not, but rather that it was as "big as a house". Second, given his background as a federal judge, it would be useful to look into how the constitutional doctrine of " separate but equal", then in effect, may have influenced his approach. MisfitToys ( talk) 22:19, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I am very active in the Paul Robeson article. One of the problems with it is authors (even modern day ones) ascribe him as being widely known for being pro-Communist before that was the case. Case in point, the FBI in internal memos had him, according to sources (Duberman), in August 1943 as labeled as 'a leading figure in the Communist party'. This however is not consistent with any contemporary source. Duberman is considered favorable to Robeson and his treatment of the December 4, 1943 meeting with MLB is erroneous and based on a terrible source. The latest source I have is ISBN 978-0-415-97938-2 pp. 128-129 and it basically states that Landis invited Robeson because he was a known pro-Communist and that would not sit well with the owners. All contemporary newspaper sources of that meeting show nothing but respect for Robeson and there is no mention whatsoever of his growing pro-Communist ties (the definitive sources on that meeting are the Pittsburgh Courier, and to a much lesser extent, the Chicago Defender).
Simple question: You folks are using: Pietrusza, David. Judge and Jury: The Life and Times of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis. South Bend, Indiana: Diamond Communications, 1998 as a source for that meeting, will that show me information that Landis knew of Hoover's view of Robeson's political leanings?
Due to the unbelievable overwhelming support for good old Uncle Joe (Stalin) during the war, I have to take into consideration that authors are jumping the gun on Robeson's pro-Communist, pro-Stalinist, and eventually Marxist leanings.
In this article I believe this: "[Robeson] was a controversial figure" is extremely poorly worded (if not unequivocally false if interpreted incorrectly due to the negative connotations associated with "controversial figures").
In this article I believe "due to his [known] affiliation with the Communist Party" needs to be further investigated by me.
In this article I suggest: In November 1943, Landis agreed after some persuasion that black sportswriter Sam Lacy should make a case for integration of organized baseball before the owners' annual meeting. Instead of Lacy attending the meeting, actor Paul Robeson did. Robeson, though a noted black actor and advocate of civil rights, was a controversial figure due to his affiliation with the Communist Party. The owners heard Robeson out, but at Landis's suggestion, did not ask him any questions or begin any discussion with him.
I do not care what you folks due with this article, all I want to know is what did Landis know about Robeson and when did he know it. Thanks in advance. 66.234.33.8 ( talk) 00:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Specifically regarding the point of being able to act in the interest of the sport: MLB's web site says the following:
(Note the bit about Landis writing his own contract is not covered in this source.) isaacl ( talk) 21:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
This article, referencing Pietrusza's biography (p. 415), reads:
The book itself reads:
However, Pietrusza's reference to southern Illinois is clearly incorrect. Later on the same page he quotes Powell as saying "I certainly would never mean to say anything offensive to the Negroes of Dayton, Chicago, or anything else. I have some good friends among the Negroes of Dayton."
Wikipedia's article on Jake Powell reads:
The Chicago Tribune of the next day (July 31, 1938, part 2, p. 2) does not give Powell's direct quote but mentions that he said "he worked as a policeman in Ohio, adding, in a jocular vein, that he used his 'club' on Negroes."
A similar report found in the Jacksonville (IL) Daily Journal the next day has the same paragraph, with the added information:
Several other digitized newspapers also refer to Dayton. It appears that the author simply flubbed this quote. I'll leave it up to the editors how to change it. FullnessOfTime ( talk) 21:47, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:30, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kenesaw Mountain Landis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
The 1923 and 1924 photos were clearly taken a the same game, likely within minutes of each others.
Mukogodo ( talk) 01:17, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:58, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
The current infobox photo has visible halftone markings and blurs at the edges. It looks like many of the photos of him are low quality, or have his face in an unusual expression. But I've found a few alternatives that seem worth considering.
I think Alt1 is he highest quality image. My two concerns are 1) I somewhat doubt the 1907 date, as that does not look like a 41 year-old to me. It's also of unknown origin, which might prevent a meaningful caption. 2) The spectacles obscure his face somewhat, and didn't seem to be a natural part of his appearance. Nonetheless, these don't seem to be a big deal, and I would vote for this as a replacement.
Alt2/Alt3 Have a bit of motion blur, and compared to the status quo probably show less detail in the center of the face, but more at the edges.
What do other think? Would Alt1 be an improvement on the status quo? MarginalCost ( talk) 16:08, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Angelgreat, can you set out where you see that Landis said "ever play professional baseball again"? I'm looking at The New York Times, August 4, 1921, page 1, "BASEBALL LEADERS WON'T LET WHITE SOX RETURN TO THE GAME; Judge Landis, Ban Johnson and Comiskey Not Moved by Jury Verdict." And Landis's statement is quoted, all three sentences, without the word "again" That's in addition to Cottrell, to whose book the statement is attributed. You mention that the Black Sox Scandal article contains "again", but the underlying source, this, does not say "again". The word "again" was added without substantiation or edit summary by an IP editor here. Not to mention this Google Books search. Even Eight Men Out, that I've just looked at a copy of, has it properly, though they add an exclamation mark. Under the circumstances, I'm restoring the previous version.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 15:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)