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The contents of the Northern kalaripayattu page were merged into Kalaripayattu. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (10 December 2016) |
@ Avf12e I have noted that recently you added that kalari is based on hinduism into the lead without a proof , now you are adding something related to urumi into the history section (to prove your point again) when the source you provided only mentions about a community/caste and says nothing that it is related to kalari or it is for kalari, it is you assumption ,it is based on the dressing style. Kindly discuss here before making such changes as the it is a very old artform which have influenced so many cultures . Bilgiljilll ( talk) 03:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
'Urumi' weapon is unique to kalari, and it's construction requires fine knowledge metallurgy. No where else we can find this flexible sword worn around waist and is a character of this period. Something like samurai sword
despite my explanation diff
WP:UNDUE; no mention of Kalaripayattu; and Raj-era source, which are usually rejected at Wikipedia
Undue is cooroborated by Bilgiljilll; what does this info have to with kalari? And it's a Raj-era source from 1909; Rah-era sources are generally not considered WP:RS. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
yes, peer reviewed scholarly articles on kalaripayattu does mention this [4]. Restored back. Afv12e ( talk) 10:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Your quote can be summarized to "Weapons used in Kalari include the Urumi, a flexible, whip-like sword made of thin pliable steel." Your "peer reviewed source," Manohara Krishnan (2023), Kalarippayattu: The Ancient Martial Art of Kerala and its Arsenal, International Journal of Social Science and Humanities Research, Vol. 11, Issue 4, October 2023 - December 2023, looks odd; see here and here for a warning signal. Anyway, your source is superficial; wonder what search-string for ChatGPT would give such an article... Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 20:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Can whoever made the WP:3O request please very briefly summarize which source exactly is contested to support which article content and why it is contested? Sandstein 10:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Again in the subsection "Colonial Period ' from history the entire body of the article Vadakkan pattukal seems to be copied here , for eg :
This late medieval "golden age" of Kalaripayattu is preserved in the Vadakkan Pattukkal (17th-18th century), a collection of ballads about warrior heroes and heroines from earlier periods in Kerala, such as Aromal Chekavar (16th century), Unniyarcha (16th century), and Thacholi Othenan, who were celebrated for their martial prowess, chivalry and idealism. The heroes and heroines belong mainly to two matrilinear families, one of Tiyya origin and another Nair. In the Vadakkan Pattukal, it is stated that the cardinal principle of Kalaripayattu was that knowledge of the art be used to further worthy causes, and not for the advancement of one's own selfish interests.[citation needed].
The problem is why this vadakkan pattukal which is an oral based legend without a proper timeline(unstable , stated in the article) thrown here mutliple times and the legendary characters when it is linked to the main page ? This comes in the colonial period and pre colinial period currently . @ Kalariwarrior @ Joshua Jonathan I would like to consider your opinion in this , and protect this page for indefinite time if possible , anyway another acc is going to arrive soon and add this religion or caste for sure , considering the history of the edits. Bilgiljilll ( talk) 09:07, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
In the Vadakkan Pattukal, it is stated that the cardinal principle of Kalaripayattu was that knowledge of the art be used to further worthy causes, and not for the advancement of one's own selfish interests.
Duarte Barbosa has written on Nair's physical training like dancing ,attaining flexibility which other castes in India do for military training. He has not talked about kalaripayattu [11]. Afv12e ( talk) 01:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
He has written nair's physical training including learning dance and making body flexible, the common military exercises practiced in all ancient Indian kingdoms to become a bowmen or swordsmen. This has nothing to do with kalaripayattu:
These nairs, besides being all of noble descent, have to be armed as knights by the hand of the king, or lord with whom they live, and until they have been so equipped they cannot bear arms nor call themselves nairs, but they enjoy the freedom and exemption and advantages of the nairs in many things. In general when these nairs are seven years of age they are immediately sent to school to learn all manner of feats of agility and gymnastics for the use of their weapons. First they learn to dance, and then to tumble, and for that purpose they render supple all their limbs from their childhood, so that they can bend them in any direction. And after they have exercised in this, they teach them to manage the weapons which suit each one most. That is to say bows, clubs, or lances; and most of them are taught to use the sword and buckler, which is of more common use among them..
Kalari for getting trained in gymnastics and the use of arms . This training was known as Kalaripayattu . Describing the military training of the Nairs in the Kalari , Duarte Barbosa , the Portuguese writer of the 16th century
At the start of the sixteenth century, Duarte Barbosa, one of the earliest Portugese to arrive in Kerala, a state in southwest India, provides a description of Kalarippayatt
From approximately the 11th/12th century A.D. on, when this particular martial system crystalized into somthing akin to what is still seen today, it was practiced by specific sub-groups of Nairs of Kerala, as well as one sub-caste of (Yatra) brahmans, Christians, Muslims, and one specific sub-group of Illavas (also known as Tiyyas).
Can you add these quotes under nair kalari training quote to give better views that ‘lower caste’ ‘Untouchables’ also practiced Kalaripayattu extensively. I’m afraid if I add maybe if it is disruptive.
Chekavar are lower caste and untouchable according to Kerala caste system.
(Even on a broader way , once practiced Buddhism, later opposed ‘Brahmins’ and failed to do so and made into lower caste untouchables.)
They were extensively practicing Kalaripayattu,and may even attribute to origin of kalari to these groups rather than North Indian Brahmins to Kerala
Jacob Canter Visscher's Letters from Malabar says: 'They may be justly entitled soldiers, as by virtue of their descent they must always bear arms. In spite of the fact that chekavars were also practitioners of payatt and had a unavoidable presence in the militia of the ruler, they were allowed in the military services.' [1]
Hendrik van Rheede, governor of Dutch Malabar between 1669 and 1676, wrote about Chekavar in Hortus Malabaricus: "[Chekavas] are bound to war and arms. The Chekavars usually serve to teach nayros ( nair) in the fencing in kalari school". [2]
References
23ff
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This quote under nair kalari training quote will give a broader historical view and will balance the section. Afv12e ( talk) 12:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
This addition would balance the article and give a broader picture of kalari practice and give a sense of origin as well. Complicating on this would again make time taking. @ Bilgiljilll Afv12e ( talk) 16:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Zarrilli (1994), ACTUALIZING POWER(S) AND CRAFTING A SELF IN KALARIPPAYATTU :
As anyone familiar with either the Mahabharata or India's second great epic, the Ramayana, knows, martial techniques have existed on the South Asian subcontinent since antiquity.
Classical Antiquity = ca. 500 BCE-500 CE. Zarrilli also writes that Dhanurveda was a source of kalari-techniques. In that case, we can go back much further in time, to the Indo-Aryans and the Sintashta culture, 3rd millennium BCE, warrior-tribes undoubtly highly skilled at combat techniques. Not something to include, but worth to give a thought. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 09:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Another intriguing comment by Zarrilli:
In Kerala, there is a folk expression which summarizes the martial practitioner's ideal state of psychophysiologicaVpneumatic accomplishment explored here--a state in which the "body becomes all eyes" (meyyu kannakuka). One reading of the "body as all eyes" is as the yogic/Ayurvedic bodymind, which intuitively responds to the sensory environment and which is healthful and fluid in its congruency. It is the animal body in which there is unmediated, uncensored, immediate respondence to stimuli. Like Brahma, the "thousand eyed," the practitioner who is accomplished can "see" everywhere around him, intuitively sensing danger in the environment and responding immediately.
Compare the Zen-koan from the Blue Cliff Record case 89, "Hands and Eyes All Over" (or "The Hands and Eyes of the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion"); idem Book of Serenity Case 54; Dogen's Mana Shobogenzo ("Dogen's 300 koans") Case 105, also in Dogen's Kana Shobogenzo, chapters Daishugyo and Kannon:
Ungan asked Dogo, “What does the bodhisattva of great compassion use so many hands and eyes for?”
Dogo said, “Like someone reaching back for a pillow in the middle of the night.”
Ungan said, “I understand.”
Dogo said, “How do you understand?”
Ungan said, “All over the body are hands and eyes.”
Dogo said, “You’ve said quite a bit, but you’ve only expressed eighty percent.”
Ungan said, “What about you?”
Dogo said, “Throughout the body are hands and eyes.”
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
The word 'Kalari' (களரி) for combat ground is found Akam 54th verse in Sangam verses, where the poem is describing a combat like duals , where warriors come and fight [1]:
முது மரத்த முரண் களரி(This is the word 'Kalari),
வரி மணல் அகன் திட்டை, 60
இருங்கிளை இனன் ஒக்கல்
கருந்தொழில் கலி மாக்கள்,
கடல் இறவின் சூடு தின்றும்,
வயல் ஆமைப் புழுக்கு உண்டும்,
வறள் அடும்பின் மலர் மலைந்தும், 65
புனல் ஆம்பல் பூச் சூடியும்,
நீல் நிற விசும்பின் வலன் ஏர்பு திரிதரும்,
நாள்மீன் விராய கோள்மீன் போல,
மலர்தலை மன்றத்துப் பலருடன் குழீஇக்,
கையினும் கலத்தினும் மெய்யுறத் தீண்டிப், 70
பெருஞ்சினத்தான் புறக்கொடாஅது,
இருஞ்செருவின் இகல் மொய்ம்பினோர்,
கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇப்
புள் இரியும் புகர்ப் போந்தை; (59-74)
Martial Art FieldShifting sands have spread in wide
striped patterns and old trees
provide shade in an arena where
strong men show off their strengths.
They gather with their many relatives
and hordes of people from their clan.
Warriors eat roasted shrimp and boiled
field tortoises. They wear adumpu flowers
that grow in dry sand, along with white
waterlilies that bloom in ponds.
The crowds milling around in the vast
common grounds are like stars that
rise up with strength and mingle with
planets in the blue sky. Men with great
body strength, filled with rage, hit body
against body and fight with hands and
weapons without backing off.
Fearing the stones from the slingshots of
strong men, birds flee, abandoning the
palmyra trees with spots.
Notes: வலன் (67) – பொ. வே. சோமசுந்தரனார் உரை, நெடுநல்வாடை (1) – வலப் பக்கம், வலன் ஏர்பு – அகநானூறு 43, 84, 188, 278, 298, 328, நற்றிணை 37, 264, 328, குறுந்தொகை 237, ஐங்குறுநூறு 469, பதிற்றுப்பத்து 24, 31, நெடுநல்வாடை 1, பட்டினப்பாலை 67, முல்லைப்பாட்டு 4, திருமுருகாற்றுப்படை 1, மதுரைக்காஞ்சி 5 – வல மாதிரத்தான் வளி கொட்ப. கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇ (73) – பொ. வே. சோமசுந்தரனார் உரை – பனை மரத்து உச்சியில் இலக்கு வைத்து எறிதலின் ஆண்டு வாழும் பறவைகள் ஓடின என்க. இங்கனம் இலக்குக் கொண்டு கல்லால் எறிதல் உண்மையால் ஆண்டு நிற்கும் பனைகள் கல்லேற்றின் வடுவுடையன என்பார், புகார்ப் போந்தை என்றார். Meanings: முது மரத்த – with old trees, முரண் களரி – arena where brave men show off their strength, வரி மணல் – sand ripples, stripes of sand, அகன் திட்டை- wide mounds, இருங்கிளை – big group of relatives, இனன் ஒக்கல் – clan people, related people (இனன் – இனம் என்பதன் போலி), கருந்தொழில் – war business, harsh business, கலி மாக்கள் – arrogant warriors, proud warriors, கடல் இறவின் – ocean shrimp’s, சூடு தின்றும் – roasted the flesh and ate, வயல் ஆமை – field tortoises, புழுக்கு உண்டும் – boiled and ate, வறள் அடும்பின் – adumpu flowers in dry sand, Ipomoea pes caprae, மலர் மலைந்தும் – adorned with flowers, புனல் ஆம்பல் – white water lilies growing in water, பூச்சூடியும் – wearing flowers, நீல் நிற விசும்பின் – in the blue sky (நீல் – கடைக்குறை, poetical license which consists in the shortening of a word by elision of one or more letters in the end), வலன் ஏர்பு – climb on the right side, climb with strength, திரிதரும் – roaming, நாள்மீன் விராய – with the stars, with the sun, கோள்மீன் போல – like the planets, மலர்தலை மன்றத்து – in the vast common grounds, பலருடன் குழீஇ – joining together with many others (குழீஇ – அளபெடை), கையினும் – with their hands, கலத்தினும் – with their weapons, மெய் உறத் தீண்டி – hitting body against body, பெருஞ்சினத்தால் – with great anger, புறக்கொடாஅது – not showing their backs and leaving (அளபெடை), இருஞ்செருவின் – in huge battles, இகல் – enmity, மொய்ம்பினோர் – men with strong bodies, கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇ – fearing the stones shot by slingshots (வெரீஇ – அளபெடை, வெருவி என்ற வினையெச்சம் திரிந்து அளபெடுத்தது), புள் – birds, இரியும் – move away, flee, புகர்ப் போந்தை – palmyra palms with spots
Considering
Most of the Akananuru was likely composed sometime between the 2nd and 5th century CE
Also Word Kalari used here with the scenario of martial arts fighting between two, The martial arts should be old as such and in the lead it says Kalari originated in 1200 ce, which much recent. We have the quote of Duarte Barossa died at 1521 talking on Kalari training and can't image that kalari developed just 300 years back of that.
Currently in Malayalam word 'Kalari' is used for both Kalaripayattu martial arts and for the place where kalaripayattu martial arts being taught. So Akam verse which is of 300ce - 600 ce should be talking about either of the two, in conjunction the above dual (Angam mentioned in the article) scene.
Just a google results, and can be seen in many articles:
The word kalari appears in the Puram (verses 225, 237, 245, 356) and Akam (verses 34, 231, 293) to describe both a battlefield and combat arena. The word kalari tatt denoted a martial feat, while kalari kozhai meant a coward in war
So the age of Kalaripayattu in the lead should consider to be changed from 1200 ce to maybe Sangam era of akam to 300ce - 500ce
Afv12e ( talk) 04:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
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@ Avf12e I have noted that recently you added that kalari is based on hinduism into the lead without a proof , now you are adding something related to urumi into the history section (to prove your point again) when the source you provided only mentions about a community/caste and says nothing that it is related to kalari or it is for kalari, it is you assumption ,it is based on the dressing style. Kindly discuss here before making such changes as the it is a very old artform which have influenced so many cultures . Bilgiljilll ( talk) 03:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
'Urumi' weapon is unique to kalari, and it's construction requires fine knowledge metallurgy. No where else we can find this flexible sword worn around waist and is a character of this period. Something like samurai sword
despite my explanation diff
WP:UNDUE; no mention of Kalaripayattu; and Raj-era source, which are usually rejected at Wikipedia
Undue is cooroborated by Bilgiljilll; what does this info have to with kalari? And it's a Raj-era source from 1909; Rah-era sources are generally not considered WP:RS. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
yes, peer reviewed scholarly articles on kalaripayattu does mention this [4]. Restored back. Afv12e ( talk) 10:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Your quote can be summarized to "Weapons used in Kalari include the Urumi, a flexible, whip-like sword made of thin pliable steel." Your "peer reviewed source," Manohara Krishnan (2023), Kalarippayattu: The Ancient Martial Art of Kerala and its Arsenal, International Journal of Social Science and Humanities Research, Vol. 11, Issue 4, October 2023 - December 2023, looks odd; see here and here for a warning signal. Anyway, your source is superficial; wonder what search-string for ChatGPT would give such an article... Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 20:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Can whoever made the WP:3O request please very briefly summarize which source exactly is contested to support which article content and why it is contested? Sandstein 10:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Again in the subsection "Colonial Period ' from history the entire body of the article Vadakkan pattukal seems to be copied here , for eg :
This late medieval "golden age" of Kalaripayattu is preserved in the Vadakkan Pattukkal (17th-18th century), a collection of ballads about warrior heroes and heroines from earlier periods in Kerala, such as Aromal Chekavar (16th century), Unniyarcha (16th century), and Thacholi Othenan, who were celebrated for their martial prowess, chivalry and idealism. The heroes and heroines belong mainly to two matrilinear families, one of Tiyya origin and another Nair. In the Vadakkan Pattukal, it is stated that the cardinal principle of Kalaripayattu was that knowledge of the art be used to further worthy causes, and not for the advancement of one's own selfish interests.[citation needed].
The problem is why this vadakkan pattukal which is an oral based legend without a proper timeline(unstable , stated in the article) thrown here mutliple times and the legendary characters when it is linked to the main page ? This comes in the colonial period and pre colinial period currently . @ Kalariwarrior @ Joshua Jonathan I would like to consider your opinion in this , and protect this page for indefinite time if possible , anyway another acc is going to arrive soon and add this religion or caste for sure , considering the history of the edits. Bilgiljilll ( talk) 09:07, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
In the Vadakkan Pattukal, it is stated that the cardinal principle of Kalaripayattu was that knowledge of the art be used to further worthy causes, and not for the advancement of one's own selfish interests.
Duarte Barbosa has written on Nair's physical training like dancing ,attaining flexibility which other castes in India do for military training. He has not talked about kalaripayattu [11]. Afv12e ( talk) 01:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
He has written nair's physical training including learning dance and making body flexible, the common military exercises practiced in all ancient Indian kingdoms to become a bowmen or swordsmen. This has nothing to do with kalaripayattu:
These nairs, besides being all of noble descent, have to be armed as knights by the hand of the king, or lord with whom they live, and until they have been so equipped they cannot bear arms nor call themselves nairs, but they enjoy the freedom and exemption and advantages of the nairs in many things. In general when these nairs are seven years of age they are immediately sent to school to learn all manner of feats of agility and gymnastics for the use of their weapons. First they learn to dance, and then to tumble, and for that purpose they render supple all their limbs from their childhood, so that they can bend them in any direction. And after they have exercised in this, they teach them to manage the weapons which suit each one most. That is to say bows, clubs, or lances; and most of them are taught to use the sword and buckler, which is of more common use among them..
Kalari for getting trained in gymnastics and the use of arms . This training was known as Kalaripayattu . Describing the military training of the Nairs in the Kalari , Duarte Barbosa , the Portuguese writer of the 16th century
At the start of the sixteenth century, Duarte Barbosa, one of the earliest Portugese to arrive in Kerala, a state in southwest India, provides a description of Kalarippayatt
From approximately the 11th/12th century A.D. on, when this particular martial system crystalized into somthing akin to what is still seen today, it was practiced by specific sub-groups of Nairs of Kerala, as well as one sub-caste of (Yatra) brahmans, Christians, Muslims, and one specific sub-group of Illavas (also known as Tiyyas).
Can you add these quotes under nair kalari training quote to give better views that ‘lower caste’ ‘Untouchables’ also practiced Kalaripayattu extensively. I’m afraid if I add maybe if it is disruptive.
Chekavar are lower caste and untouchable according to Kerala caste system.
(Even on a broader way , once practiced Buddhism, later opposed ‘Brahmins’ and failed to do so and made into lower caste untouchables.)
They were extensively practicing Kalaripayattu,and may even attribute to origin of kalari to these groups rather than North Indian Brahmins to Kerala
Jacob Canter Visscher's Letters from Malabar says: 'They may be justly entitled soldiers, as by virtue of their descent they must always bear arms. In spite of the fact that chekavars were also practitioners of payatt and had a unavoidable presence in the militia of the ruler, they were allowed in the military services.' [1]
Hendrik van Rheede, governor of Dutch Malabar between 1669 and 1676, wrote about Chekavar in Hortus Malabaricus: "[Chekavas] are bound to war and arms. The Chekavars usually serve to teach nayros ( nair) in the fencing in kalari school". [2]
References
23ff
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This quote under nair kalari training quote will give a broader historical view and will balance the section. Afv12e ( talk) 12:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
This addition would balance the article and give a broader picture of kalari practice and give a sense of origin as well. Complicating on this would again make time taking. @ Bilgiljilll Afv12e ( talk) 16:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Zarrilli (1994), ACTUALIZING POWER(S) AND CRAFTING A SELF IN KALARIPPAYATTU :
As anyone familiar with either the Mahabharata or India's second great epic, the Ramayana, knows, martial techniques have existed on the South Asian subcontinent since antiquity.
Classical Antiquity = ca. 500 BCE-500 CE. Zarrilli also writes that Dhanurveda was a source of kalari-techniques. In that case, we can go back much further in time, to the Indo-Aryans and the Sintashta culture, 3rd millennium BCE, warrior-tribes undoubtly highly skilled at combat techniques. Not something to include, but worth to give a thought. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 09:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Another intriguing comment by Zarrilli:
In Kerala, there is a folk expression which summarizes the martial practitioner's ideal state of psychophysiologicaVpneumatic accomplishment explored here--a state in which the "body becomes all eyes" (meyyu kannakuka). One reading of the "body as all eyes" is as the yogic/Ayurvedic bodymind, which intuitively responds to the sensory environment and which is healthful and fluid in its congruency. It is the animal body in which there is unmediated, uncensored, immediate respondence to stimuli. Like Brahma, the "thousand eyed," the practitioner who is accomplished can "see" everywhere around him, intuitively sensing danger in the environment and responding immediately.
Compare the Zen-koan from the Blue Cliff Record case 89, "Hands and Eyes All Over" (or "The Hands and Eyes of the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion"); idem Book of Serenity Case 54; Dogen's Mana Shobogenzo ("Dogen's 300 koans") Case 105, also in Dogen's Kana Shobogenzo, chapters Daishugyo and Kannon:
Ungan asked Dogo, “What does the bodhisattva of great compassion use so many hands and eyes for?”
Dogo said, “Like someone reaching back for a pillow in the middle of the night.”
Ungan said, “I understand.”
Dogo said, “How do you understand?”
Ungan said, “All over the body are hands and eyes.”
Dogo said, “You’ve said quite a bit, but you’ve only expressed eighty percent.”
Ungan said, “What about you?”
Dogo said, “Throughout the body are hands and eyes.”
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
The word 'Kalari' (களரி) for combat ground is found Akam 54th verse in Sangam verses, where the poem is describing a combat like duals , where warriors come and fight [1]:
முது மரத்த முரண் களரி(This is the word 'Kalari),
வரி மணல் அகன் திட்டை, 60
இருங்கிளை இனன் ஒக்கல்
கருந்தொழில் கலி மாக்கள்,
கடல் இறவின் சூடு தின்றும்,
வயல் ஆமைப் புழுக்கு உண்டும்,
வறள் அடும்பின் மலர் மலைந்தும், 65
புனல் ஆம்பல் பூச் சூடியும்,
நீல் நிற விசும்பின் வலன் ஏர்பு திரிதரும்,
நாள்மீன் விராய கோள்மீன் போல,
மலர்தலை மன்றத்துப் பலருடன் குழீஇக்,
கையினும் கலத்தினும் மெய்யுறத் தீண்டிப், 70
பெருஞ்சினத்தான் புறக்கொடாஅது,
இருஞ்செருவின் இகல் மொய்ம்பினோர்,
கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇப்
புள் இரியும் புகர்ப் போந்தை; (59-74)
Martial Art FieldShifting sands have spread in wide
striped patterns and old trees
provide shade in an arena where
strong men show off their strengths.
They gather with their many relatives
and hordes of people from their clan.
Warriors eat roasted shrimp and boiled
field tortoises. They wear adumpu flowers
that grow in dry sand, along with white
waterlilies that bloom in ponds.
The crowds milling around in the vast
common grounds are like stars that
rise up with strength and mingle with
planets in the blue sky. Men with great
body strength, filled with rage, hit body
against body and fight with hands and
weapons without backing off.
Fearing the stones from the slingshots of
strong men, birds flee, abandoning the
palmyra trees with spots.
Notes: வலன் (67) – பொ. வே. சோமசுந்தரனார் உரை, நெடுநல்வாடை (1) – வலப் பக்கம், வலன் ஏர்பு – அகநானூறு 43, 84, 188, 278, 298, 328, நற்றிணை 37, 264, 328, குறுந்தொகை 237, ஐங்குறுநூறு 469, பதிற்றுப்பத்து 24, 31, நெடுநல்வாடை 1, பட்டினப்பாலை 67, முல்லைப்பாட்டு 4, திருமுருகாற்றுப்படை 1, மதுரைக்காஞ்சி 5 – வல மாதிரத்தான் வளி கொட்ப. கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇ (73) – பொ. வே. சோமசுந்தரனார் உரை – பனை மரத்து உச்சியில் இலக்கு வைத்து எறிதலின் ஆண்டு வாழும் பறவைகள் ஓடின என்க. இங்கனம் இலக்குக் கொண்டு கல்லால் எறிதல் உண்மையால் ஆண்டு நிற்கும் பனைகள் கல்லேற்றின் வடுவுடையன என்பார், புகார்ப் போந்தை என்றார். Meanings: முது மரத்த – with old trees, முரண் களரி – arena where brave men show off their strength, வரி மணல் – sand ripples, stripes of sand, அகன் திட்டை- wide mounds, இருங்கிளை – big group of relatives, இனன் ஒக்கல் – clan people, related people (இனன் – இனம் என்பதன் போலி), கருந்தொழில் – war business, harsh business, கலி மாக்கள் – arrogant warriors, proud warriors, கடல் இறவின் – ocean shrimp’s, சூடு தின்றும் – roasted the flesh and ate, வயல் ஆமை – field tortoises, புழுக்கு உண்டும் – boiled and ate, வறள் அடும்பின் – adumpu flowers in dry sand, Ipomoea pes caprae, மலர் மலைந்தும் – adorned with flowers, புனல் ஆம்பல் – white water lilies growing in water, பூச்சூடியும் – wearing flowers, நீல் நிற விசும்பின் – in the blue sky (நீல் – கடைக்குறை, poetical license which consists in the shortening of a word by elision of one or more letters in the end), வலன் ஏர்பு – climb on the right side, climb with strength, திரிதரும் – roaming, நாள்மீன் விராய – with the stars, with the sun, கோள்மீன் போல – like the planets, மலர்தலை மன்றத்து – in the vast common grounds, பலருடன் குழீஇ – joining together with many others (குழீஇ – அளபெடை), கையினும் – with their hands, கலத்தினும் – with their weapons, மெய் உறத் தீண்டி – hitting body against body, பெருஞ்சினத்தால் – with great anger, புறக்கொடாஅது – not showing their backs and leaving (அளபெடை), இருஞ்செருவின் – in huge battles, இகல் – enmity, மொய்ம்பினோர் – men with strong bodies, கல் எறியும் கவண் வெரீஇ – fearing the stones shot by slingshots (வெரீஇ – அளபெடை, வெருவி என்ற வினையெச்சம் திரிந்து அளபெடுத்தது), புள் – birds, இரியும் – move away, flee, புகர்ப் போந்தை – palmyra palms with spots
Considering
Most of the Akananuru was likely composed sometime between the 2nd and 5th century CE
Also Word Kalari used here with the scenario of martial arts fighting between two, The martial arts should be old as such and in the lead it says Kalari originated in 1200 ce, which much recent. We have the quote of Duarte Barossa died at 1521 talking on Kalari training and can't image that kalari developed just 300 years back of that.
Currently in Malayalam word 'Kalari' is used for both Kalaripayattu martial arts and for the place where kalaripayattu martial arts being taught. So Akam verse which is of 300ce - 600 ce should be talking about either of the two, in conjunction the above dual (Angam mentioned in the article) scene.
Just a google results, and can be seen in many articles:
The word kalari appears in the Puram (verses 225, 237, 245, 356) and Akam (verses 34, 231, 293) to describe both a battlefield and combat arena. The word kalari tatt denoted a martial feat, while kalari kozhai meant a coward in war
So the age of Kalaripayattu in the lead should consider to be changed from 1200 ce to maybe Sangam era of akam to 300ce - 500ce
Afv12e ( talk) 04:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)