Josei manga has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
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A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 7, 2022. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that open depictions of sexual acts were a defining trait of early works of
josei manga ('women's
comics')? |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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This article contains a translation of Josei from fr.wikipedia. ( 1077861207 et seq.) |
Removed the following erroneous examples.
Angel Sanctuary ran in Hana-to-Yume, a shōjo_manga magazine.
Nana is serialized in the shōjo_manga magazine Cookie_(magazine)
Only Yesterday or Omohide Poroporo is published under Animage Wide Comics imprint. I can't exactly describe what kinda of imprint Animage Wide is, but it is not a josei publication. Animage predates the josei classification anyway.
Ebichu is written by a woman, but that means nothing. My best google-fu says the Ebichu was originally published in Manga Action Pizzazz, which is a seinen magazine. However, there are numerous references to Gainax claiming that it's aimed at women (looked at gainax.co.jp, Ebichu pages not there anymore). It could be claimed that Ebichu anime is aimed at women and thus qualifies as josei anime, but I very strongly discourage that for various reasons. (For those familiar with the scholarship, this is analogous to using target audience to classify, say, Escaflowne.) Rather, think of it as Gainax trying to expand the potential audience to include both sexes.
Paradise Kiss is a special case. The manga was serialized in Zipper magazine, which is akin to Seventeen. Calling it josei would imply that the target audience of Seventeen are twenty-somethings. However, the anime was aired as part of the Noitamina programming block. The series originally debuted at 00:35 a.m., which argues against calling it shoujo, but not enough to definitely call it josei. Using "original material" as my yardstick (a common yardstick in the hobby), I'm arguing that it's best to classify it shoujo and not josei. -24.236.176.101
For anyone who is familiar with this series, I believe it is an excellent example of this genre. I ask that it be added as an example for anyone who knows how to do this. Thank you, Wolffi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.246.231.151 ( talk) 21:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
Wrong, its both Seinen and well, kinda sucks lol I mean honestly, non-virgin crazy boss chick....yeah..... But still, its from a chick's perspective simply due to the author's gender and the sexual desire the reader is supposed to have for her and her female co-workers. And yeah, most female authors, even when learning alot from males on how to target the audience, still end up making a more middle ground genre, even with Chobits and X by Chobits, but eh, such is the way of things....damn authoresses could at least get rid of all the gay characters save maybe lesbo scenes for our male viewing pleasure lol Wiggalama ( talk) 21:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Saiunkoku Monogatari is originally a light novel which is serialized in Bean's Ace, which is described in the Japanese wikipedia article as a magazine which aims at the "shoujo" audience.
I don't see how Papa to kiss in the dark is in this genre. Isn't it yaoi??
"much like but not to be confused with yaoi; josei tending to be both more explicit and with more mature storytelling." Again, Papa to kiss in the dark isn't a very Mature story, it's just an excuse to make a story about a boy who fancys his dad. And how is Josei more explicit than Yaoi??
In Japan, Ladies' Comics is actually what this genre is called. The Japanese wikipedia article on Ladies' comics actually does not make any reference to the term "josei manga," and only mentions "josei-muke" manga as referring to all manga aimed at women, whether girls or adult women. The term "josei manga" seems to be a creation of the English-speaking fan community, and this fact, I think, should be noted in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charmian33 ( talk) 06:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC).
ChuChu, please don't move this or other pages until there is a clear consensus to do so.
I understand the objection that in Japanese, shojo, seinen, josei etc refer to girls, youth, women etc as a whole, and not specifically their manga. However, this is the English Wikipedia, and as used in English otaku circles, the terms refer pretty much exclusively to manga. If you do an English-only Google search for josei, the first six hits all refer to josei manga, and the rest are about Jōsei (城聖) Toda the Soka Gakkai guy. None use "josei" to mean "woman", because that's not what it means in English.
To give a comparison, the English Wikipedia article Cider talks about an alcoholic beverage made from apples, while ja:サイダー is about an artificially flavored, colorless, non-alcoholic soda. Is the Japanese Wikipedia raping English? Jpatokal ( talk) 16:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Fg2, it is probably better. But it need not be a correct one. Wiktionary defines josei to be "a class of manga written for an older female audience, also josei manga." [1]. If this is the common usage, that's what we need to use. (Needless to say, whether this constitutes a raping of the Japanese culture is really irrelevant. I'm a native Japanese speaker, and I'm too used to be offended by this kind of misuse.) -- Taku ( talk) 07:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
How about a survey? "Support" or "Oppose" renaming to "Josei manga," and please include reasons (or at least refer to reasons given above). Matt Thorn ( talk) 15:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Support: The "Shōjo" article's title has recently been been renamed " Shōjo manga." You can see the reasoning in the discussion page there. As I wrote there, the article on Leonardo da Vinci is not titled "Da Vinci," even though English speakers commonly call him that, for the simple reason that "da Vinci" simply means "Of/from Vinci." Try to rename that article "da Vinci" and see what kind of reaction you get. This article is about a Japanese phenomenon, and just because it is consistently misnamed in English doesn't make that misnaming any more correct. There is no logical reason I can think of not to rename the article, and create a disambiguation page for the word "josei," other than stubbornness. And I do know a bit about the subject. Matt Thorn ( talk) 15:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Support "Josei manga is clearly the better title" (as I wrote above) and "as I also supported moving Josei to Josei manga" (as I wrote in support of renaming "shōjo") Fg2 ( talk) 20:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I thought the rule of thumb on Wikipedia was to avoid lists. I can see that it may be important to offer examples so that readers get an idea of what is and isn't josei manga, but right now we have a very short article and a very long list. I'm not saying I necessarily oppose including a list; I'm just bringing it based on my understanding of Wikipedia policy. Matt Thorn ( talk) 11:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Josei is sometimes used within anime or manga, mostly by male characters, to refer to a sexual preference for older women, as contrasted with lolicon.
Huh? I've been studying this stuff for twenty years, and have never heard of this. There's also no citation. Unless someone comes up with a reference, I'm going to delete this line in the near future. Matt Thorn ( talk) 11:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I've created a sandbox to play around with additions/revisions to this article. Feel free to jump in. At this point it consists only of the beginning of a rough draft of a history, without references. Needless to say, I'll add the references before moving anything to the main article. Matt Thorn ( talk) 16:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I made this into section and added data from other categories for comparison. Is this overkill? I'm planning on making similar sections in the Shounen, Seinen, and Shoujo manga articles. Matt Thorn ( talk) 16:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Comics for Grown-Up Women, Part 1 - Tramps Like Us and Other Josei Manga from Sequential Tart. It's a review of some josei manga titles which provides some potential thematic information. - Malkinann ( talk) 00:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
The circulations and examples are ridiculous. Honestly, Seinen is FAR more popular all over the world in both sales and number of comics, yet the Josei wiki page dares to be excessive in both detail and citations needed when comapared to Seinen?! lol Stop trying to desperately justify Josei as relevant, it is kinda, just to a far lesser extent than Shonen, Seinen, and even Shojo. Not saying all Josei suck, some are pretty good, just saying, circulations and the list of url examples are excessive. Besides, remember, Josei is the least selling of all the demographs in Japan for manga and anime(Shonen, Seinen, and Shojo, in that order)....unless you want to count Shojo Ai/Yuri and Shounen Ai/Yaoi *laughs at first pukes at the last part mentioned* among other deviant subversions<(^o^)> Wiggalama ( talk) 20:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
The lead of this article isn't very good. It just reads as a rant that josei doesn't equal yaoi, and that it all stems from Western misconception. Doesn't look too helpful. 惑乱 Wakuran ( talk) 12:14, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
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The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:45, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Morgan695 ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:35, 1 June 2022 (UTC).
Josei manga has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 7, 2022. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that open depictions of sexual acts were a defining trait of early works of
josei manga ('women's
comics')? |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article contains a translation of Josei from fr.wikipedia. ( 1077861207 et seq.) |
Removed the following erroneous examples.
Angel Sanctuary ran in Hana-to-Yume, a shōjo_manga magazine.
Nana is serialized in the shōjo_manga magazine Cookie_(magazine)
Only Yesterday or Omohide Poroporo is published under Animage Wide Comics imprint. I can't exactly describe what kinda of imprint Animage Wide is, but it is not a josei publication. Animage predates the josei classification anyway.
Ebichu is written by a woman, but that means nothing. My best google-fu says the Ebichu was originally published in Manga Action Pizzazz, which is a seinen magazine. However, there are numerous references to Gainax claiming that it's aimed at women (looked at gainax.co.jp, Ebichu pages not there anymore). It could be claimed that Ebichu anime is aimed at women and thus qualifies as josei anime, but I very strongly discourage that for various reasons. (For those familiar with the scholarship, this is analogous to using target audience to classify, say, Escaflowne.) Rather, think of it as Gainax trying to expand the potential audience to include both sexes.
Paradise Kiss is a special case. The manga was serialized in Zipper magazine, which is akin to Seventeen. Calling it josei would imply that the target audience of Seventeen are twenty-somethings. However, the anime was aired as part of the Noitamina programming block. The series originally debuted at 00:35 a.m., which argues against calling it shoujo, but not enough to definitely call it josei. Using "original material" as my yardstick (a common yardstick in the hobby), I'm arguing that it's best to classify it shoujo and not josei. -24.236.176.101
For anyone who is familiar with this series, I believe it is an excellent example of this genre. I ask that it be added as an example for anyone who knows how to do this. Thank you, Wolffi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.246.231.151 ( talk) 21:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
Wrong, its both Seinen and well, kinda sucks lol I mean honestly, non-virgin crazy boss chick....yeah..... But still, its from a chick's perspective simply due to the author's gender and the sexual desire the reader is supposed to have for her and her female co-workers. And yeah, most female authors, even when learning alot from males on how to target the audience, still end up making a more middle ground genre, even with Chobits and X by Chobits, but eh, such is the way of things....damn authoresses could at least get rid of all the gay characters save maybe lesbo scenes for our male viewing pleasure lol Wiggalama ( talk) 21:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Saiunkoku Monogatari is originally a light novel which is serialized in Bean's Ace, which is described in the Japanese wikipedia article as a magazine which aims at the "shoujo" audience.
I don't see how Papa to kiss in the dark is in this genre. Isn't it yaoi??
"much like but not to be confused with yaoi; josei tending to be both more explicit and with more mature storytelling." Again, Papa to kiss in the dark isn't a very Mature story, it's just an excuse to make a story about a boy who fancys his dad. And how is Josei more explicit than Yaoi??
In Japan, Ladies' Comics is actually what this genre is called. The Japanese wikipedia article on Ladies' comics actually does not make any reference to the term "josei manga," and only mentions "josei-muke" manga as referring to all manga aimed at women, whether girls or adult women. The term "josei manga" seems to be a creation of the English-speaking fan community, and this fact, I think, should be noted in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charmian33 ( talk) 06:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC).
ChuChu, please don't move this or other pages until there is a clear consensus to do so.
I understand the objection that in Japanese, shojo, seinen, josei etc refer to girls, youth, women etc as a whole, and not specifically their manga. However, this is the English Wikipedia, and as used in English otaku circles, the terms refer pretty much exclusively to manga. If you do an English-only Google search for josei, the first six hits all refer to josei manga, and the rest are about Jōsei (城聖) Toda the Soka Gakkai guy. None use "josei" to mean "woman", because that's not what it means in English.
To give a comparison, the English Wikipedia article Cider talks about an alcoholic beverage made from apples, while ja:サイダー is about an artificially flavored, colorless, non-alcoholic soda. Is the Japanese Wikipedia raping English? Jpatokal ( talk) 16:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Fg2, it is probably better. But it need not be a correct one. Wiktionary defines josei to be "a class of manga written for an older female audience, also josei manga." [1]. If this is the common usage, that's what we need to use. (Needless to say, whether this constitutes a raping of the Japanese culture is really irrelevant. I'm a native Japanese speaker, and I'm too used to be offended by this kind of misuse.) -- Taku ( talk) 07:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
How about a survey? "Support" or "Oppose" renaming to "Josei manga," and please include reasons (or at least refer to reasons given above). Matt Thorn ( talk) 15:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Support: The "Shōjo" article's title has recently been been renamed " Shōjo manga." You can see the reasoning in the discussion page there. As I wrote there, the article on Leonardo da Vinci is not titled "Da Vinci," even though English speakers commonly call him that, for the simple reason that "da Vinci" simply means "Of/from Vinci." Try to rename that article "da Vinci" and see what kind of reaction you get. This article is about a Japanese phenomenon, and just because it is consistently misnamed in English doesn't make that misnaming any more correct. There is no logical reason I can think of not to rename the article, and create a disambiguation page for the word "josei," other than stubbornness. And I do know a bit about the subject. Matt Thorn ( talk) 15:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Support "Josei manga is clearly the better title" (as I wrote above) and "as I also supported moving Josei to Josei manga" (as I wrote in support of renaming "shōjo") Fg2 ( talk) 20:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I thought the rule of thumb on Wikipedia was to avoid lists. I can see that it may be important to offer examples so that readers get an idea of what is and isn't josei manga, but right now we have a very short article and a very long list. I'm not saying I necessarily oppose including a list; I'm just bringing it based on my understanding of Wikipedia policy. Matt Thorn ( talk) 11:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Josei is sometimes used within anime or manga, mostly by male characters, to refer to a sexual preference for older women, as contrasted with lolicon.
Huh? I've been studying this stuff for twenty years, and have never heard of this. There's also no citation. Unless someone comes up with a reference, I'm going to delete this line in the near future. Matt Thorn ( talk) 11:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I've created a sandbox to play around with additions/revisions to this article. Feel free to jump in. At this point it consists only of the beginning of a rough draft of a history, without references. Needless to say, I'll add the references before moving anything to the main article. Matt Thorn ( talk) 16:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I made this into section and added data from other categories for comparison. Is this overkill? I'm planning on making similar sections in the Shounen, Seinen, and Shoujo manga articles. Matt Thorn ( talk) 16:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Comics for Grown-Up Women, Part 1 - Tramps Like Us and Other Josei Manga from Sequential Tart. It's a review of some josei manga titles which provides some potential thematic information. - Malkinann ( talk) 00:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
The circulations and examples are ridiculous. Honestly, Seinen is FAR more popular all over the world in both sales and number of comics, yet the Josei wiki page dares to be excessive in both detail and citations needed when comapared to Seinen?! lol Stop trying to desperately justify Josei as relevant, it is kinda, just to a far lesser extent than Shonen, Seinen, and even Shojo. Not saying all Josei suck, some are pretty good, just saying, circulations and the list of url examples are excessive. Besides, remember, Josei is the least selling of all the demographs in Japan for manga and anime(Shonen, Seinen, and Shojo, in that order)....unless you want to count Shojo Ai/Yuri and Shounen Ai/Yaoi *laughs at first pukes at the last part mentioned* among other deviant subversions<(^o^)> Wiggalama ( talk) 20:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
The lead of this article isn't very good. It just reads as a rant that josei doesn't equal yaoi, and that it all stems from Western misconception. Doesn't look too helpful. 惑乱 Wakuran ( talk) 12:14, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Josei manga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:14, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Josei manga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:45, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Morgan695 ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:35, 1 June 2022 (UTC).