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The second paragraph of the Afghan section currently reads:
Well, that sounds like speculation to me. My understanding of the no original research policy is that this kind of speculation can be included -- if the article is citing or quoting a verifiable, authoritative source.
There are verifiable sources that quote the claims Idema made in the Afghan court. Here is one:
Here is the key part:
I'd like to include Idema's claims. Trouble is, it doesn't fit if the article already takes a stand that he is a fantastist.
So, if that 2nd paragraph came from a verifiable, citable source, it should be cited. Agreed? If it is the speculation of one of our fellow contributors should it be cut? Shouldn't we be setting the facts before the reader, and letting them make up their own minds? -- Geo Swan 19:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
There is a reference to "Yunis Qanooni" in the later section that's currently red-linked. Should this be "Yunus Qanuni"? -- Bearda 15:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't seem to verify the last paragraph that Idema had been cleared of all charges. The linked article seems to have disappeared, and all other sources state that Edward Caraballo was released, but make no mention of Idema being cleared. Does anyone else have support for this claim? -- Bearda 16:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The latest is that Idema was suing the US Government (State Dept) for a habeaus corpus court documents show that he is not being held by the U.S. government and voluntarily chooses to stay in Pulicharki there is no reason. In my opinion it appears that Idema is trying to prevent being deported by the Afghan government to U.S. jurisdiction since he is directly resisting efforts of the consulate to assist in his repatriation. Idema wants to fly to New Delhi where his Tajik supporter Karim Khallili is ambassador. It has also been determined by the U.S. consulate that Idema is not destitute and has ample funds. Meanwhile Idema seems to inventing a story that he is being held against his will when in fact court papers show he is resisting deportation. So once again its important to focus on facts and remove any unfounded or false statements generated by Idema or his associates. Some of whom have been editing his bio. Thankfully it has been corrected. And I would like to apologize to "alcarillo" who I had previously critiqued for his reversions. I think we both see eye to eye on what constitutes useful additions and he also has a better understanding of certain disinformation techniques used on Wikipedia on this particular topic.
RYP
This guy is a pretty unimportant person to have such a long and detailed article. Most of which is unsourced and frankly not well written. I think this should be hammered down to one or two paragraphs. protohiro 01:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't agree. It's not too badly-written and it's interesting, even if he *isn't* very important. 146.115.45.103 01:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)L.
I'm suprised at how little media interest there is on Idema. I learned about him from a small excerpt in Newsweek. This article may help to fill this lack of information. Xpanzion 03:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is of any use, but there is a 45 minute video from 2005 on YouTube about private armies in Afghanistan and a significant portion is an interview of him in prison, making the claims about American and Northern alliance connections. The documentary was aired on SkyOne
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pCe2mso-uWc 2602:304:AEB7:BC0:FD4C:2B19:E8B4:BDC6 ( talk) 00:30, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
After reviewing lots of articles about Idema it seems like information is very scattered. A typical web surfer would probablbly either see just one side of the story, or would get frustrated with the difficulty of finding information ang give up. I think this is a great place to sum up this intriguing biographical information.
I'd like to see the following aspects covered at least:
Xpanzion 04:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Could someone clarify or expand on this section? The terms use jargon which need to be explained, such as:
Idema was repeatedly recycled just to get through training group and failed 05B training twice and was then recycled into 11B training.
What does this mean? Was he, or was he not a Green Beret? According to Robert Young Pelton's book Licenced to Kill, Idema was honorably discharged in February 1978. In light of the controversy surrounding Idema, the article needs to have sources confirming his military record. Alcarillo 16:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
05b training is special forces radio training. 11b training is for the MOS(Military Operations Specialty) of an infantryman. Many sources say that Idema was in special forces radio communications including Cao's blog. The word
recycled
probably subjests that Idema was sent back to more elementary training before retaking the special forces class for the third time. The only place I can find with the information about Idema failing this training is on the Stupor Patriots site
[1] The information is posted as an email from someone with Cao's blog. If anyone can find a more reliable source please reference it. If not this paragraph should be deleted. Xpanzion 23:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Lots of the information in the military service section seems to be from the stupor patriots site. I already removed the part about his father getting Idema back into special forces training, I can't find anything even close anywhere else. A more reputable source should be found for the information on Idema's military career. Xpanzion 23:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Idema's supporters claim Idema worked in many countries with special forces. Wide Awakes Radio His military record does not include any combat experience(this statement is included in the article), the argument for his international involvement has more to do with unofficial work, some of it outside of the military. Supporters of Idema are not made less credible by pointing to a lack of military records. Lets make sure both sides of this aspect of the story are articulated ; ) Xpanzion 02:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Jack and his team were attached to Delta 1 teams on more than one occasion starting in Central America. Honduras, Dominican Republic and Nicaragua. He was also at the Senate Hearing in the latter 70s and displayed how a 'dirty bomb' could be made from the radioactive elements obtained by a conjunct of two FBI/CIA agents brought back from not Lithuania but another black market source... There seems to be an unusual amount of abundance of scrubbed material regarding Jack Idema for someone not important. In fact all the credible information is gone, including pictures of Ronnie Reagan getting certified at Counter Group...which was run under a Majors name out of Pope AFB.. a lot of very wrong and tainted information about Jack here. Including his relationship with the Baptist Church group in NC. Information about Vickie is missing, his seaplane which was given to him from a government impound... a lottttt of information has been purposely scrubbed, deleted, tainted or white-washed. Jack did black bag work...
Looking at the article history, with its vandalism, reverts and other POV issues, it appears to be quite a back-and-forth between Idema and/or his supporters and Idema's critics. Therefore, I think the neutrality of this article has been compromised. At the very least, especially in the section "Unverified claims", the editing conflicts show with statements contradicting themselves. If information is not citied with verifiable sources, or if it violates wikipedia policy on point of view, it will be removed. Alcarillo 17:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Removed
Idema claims to have been active within the Army Special Forces during the early years of the civil war in El Salvador as part of Operation Quicksilver and aided in the training the El Salvadoran troops. citation needed It was reported that Idema was in El Salvador at the time but that he was in-country as a civilian and not operating with any military unit. citation needed
It was the first paragraph in the section of unverified claims. I could not find this information anywhere. The closest thing I found was on Wide Awakeness Radio. It mentioned many countries of Idema's activity, but did not mention operation quicksilver. WAR Xpanzion 18:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing this section slowly. There shouldn't be unverified claims presented for a living person, especially if they include negative claims. I have spent lots of time looking for reliable sources to cite, then when I found something that was unfounded I removed it completely. Some of the material was verifiable and I moved it to other sections. There is one positive unverified claim that I can't confirm.
Afghani press reports indicating Idema, and other Special Operation Forces were in Afghanistan in the 1980s and 1990s, during the Soviet Invasion, occupation and subsequent retreat were not found to be in error as far as Idema's participation is concerned. Idema did in fact have to be 'rescued' from the orginial Parlichuke Prison
If anyone can find a reliable source with this information please put the information in the Afghanistan section or military service. Xpanzion 05:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous user added this external link to the article, which I removed because it is a commercial site promoting the site author and/or a specific product: Warlords of Afghanistan: Jonathan Keith Idema. (see the relevant Wikipedia policy on external links to avoid) Alcarillo 16:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Idema was in fact at Saderat and was taken from there after about three months of torture to Pulacharke by the Northern Alliance, who are now treating him as a POW in accordance with the Geneva Conventions. Idema's Pulacharke ID card does not show him as a 'torturer' but rather as a 'political prisoner'. Edit was made by anon User:71.201.58.196
How did Idema pay for equipment, housing, and workers? At least one source said he payed the cameraman. Did he pay Bennett as well? He sold some material to news companies, but what money did he use before he began to sell material? I'm not sure if a definitive answer can be found, if not a list of theories would be useful. Xpanzion 22:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcarillo ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)."The investigation by ICE, the FBI, DEA, and IRS revealed that Alocozy’s business had been utilized by Jack Idema, the former Green Beret-turned bounty hunter who is currently imprisoned in Afghanistan for allegedly torturing Afghan civilians. During the investigation, Alocozy provided ICE investigators with copies of business ledgers indicating that Idema used Alocozy’s business to send funds from the U.S. to Afghanistan, presumably in support of his quest to capture Osama bin Laden and collect the $50 million reward.
Solid information about this group would improve the article greatly. Idema seems to have gained credibility through his relationship with this organization, also he may have recieved funding. The article currently states that Idema founded this group; however a google search for "counterr group" reveals sites that don't consistently state that Idema owns, or founded this company. I cannot find a stock listing for this company. The company website contains pictures of Idema, so there must be some relationship with Idema.
It makes me wonder if the company actually is owned or was founded by Idema. If not, what has Idema done for the company? Does the company actually do anything? What customers, if any, has this company advised? Who else works for them, and who fronted the money for its formation? If the website is truthful about the scale of the companies operations, which supposedly include a helicopter shooting range, then it must have been expensive to construct the training facilities. Xpanzion 19:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
This portion of the article seems somewhat misleading to me. It makes it sound like this entity existed only in someone's imagination or only on the web. This is far from the case. I personally met and knew Kieth in the 80's, and attended training seminars at the Counterrgroup facillities in Red Hook NY, just north of Poughkeepsie. The facilities abutted an airstrip and FBO owned by his family. Training facilities included: Conventional pistol and rifle ranges, urban assault and "jungle" assault ranges, rapelling tower, sniper ranges, and a commercial aircraft fuselage used for close quarters combat training. I still have some documentation from the seminars and other Counterrgroup literature from that time. Kieth was clearly the founder, director, and primary training instructor in all ventures, and had a trained paramedic on staff (also combat trained) as well as an assistant trainer during my time there. While I can not reference specific contracts carried out at this facility or the agencies involved, it was a going concern as the property owners in the area often complined publicly about the sound of gunfire at all hours of the day and night. The article should be revised somehow, while the documentation of ownership in the public record may be sketchy, there is no question that Kieth "owned" it, founded it, managed it, and it did what it advertised. 199.224.75.86 ( talk) 06:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I was able to find several articles pertaining to Idema published in The Fayetteville Observer [6] Some of them are archived and as such, not freely available. However, searching for "Idema" in the archives will yield the name of the article, the date of publication, the author, as well as some lead-in information. For the purposes of article references, where I could not get a URL for the article I included the article's ID number, which also shows up in the search results. Alcarillo 17:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
That recent AP story is looking dubious, now that Idema's site Superpatrios.us claims he refuses to leave Afghanistan without the dog. Pleasantville 14:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I have been noticing that people here have been overlooking the facts and adding unwarranted equivication about his criminal, arrest and military history.
Idema is not an American independent security contractor
He still is serving his sentence in PuliCharki
He didn't "allegedly" run a prison he is in prison for kidnapping and torturing afghan citizens.
I could go on but this entry simply gets too much fact deletion and fantasy addition.
Idema entered for National Geographic to do a documentary on Ed Artis, returned with tickets purchased by ABC news to do a reality show and anything he says about anything he was doing has to be weighed against the facts represented by his agent selling footage rights, his litigation threats and lost suits against media organizations. Covert operators don't do reality shows and hawk the film rights to TV. Also I noticed that much usable information has been deleted from this profile which shows that Idema's crew is busy trying to rewrite history and suppress information.
ConTerr (the emphasis on "Con") is the business vehicle Idema has used to pretend that he has some official function related to terrorism (not related to his terrorizing of afghans and us citizens via his and Lynn Thomas's website. His business cards and logo are deliberately used to mislead people into thinking he is affiliated with federal, state or local law enforcement.
Idema has about 6 known supporters: his father, his lawyer, Lynn Thomas, Thomas Bumback, Jim Morris, Ted Kavanaugh and of course himself. If you want to take their word over the U.S government, the large number of published and fact checked articles and pretend their is some conspiracy, you do Wikipedia and he truth a disservice. He publishes modified press articles on his site, issues false statements, threatens women, children, afghans and now even Karzai. Don't fall into be a hatemonger or stooge for a con man.
You can find a chapter on him in my book and a simple google will lead you to a number of accurate articles.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jonathan_Idema&curid=880676&diff=154197414&oldid=153094374 -- Pleasantville 18:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
From ABC News: New Al Qaeda Tape Surfaces Despite US Efforts to Block It. Article reports, "Al Qaeda also showed a video it said was captured from a US bounty hunter, Keith "Jack" Idema, as he appeared to threaten to kill an Afghani citizen during an interrogation." -- Pleasantville ( talk) 16:58, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Issue needs to be revisited due to recent events. Viriditas ( talk) 00:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I have added a mention of the new article describing the police report in which it is claimed that Idema attempted to acquire a laptop used by jailed imposter Joseph A. Cafasso. I presume that was the "recent event" referred to. -- Pleasantville ( talk) 16:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Is this an appropriate overall occupation for this subject's infobox?
Thanks, -- 4wajzkd02 ( talk) 23:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
“ | A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extrajudicial punishment to such a person. | ” |
Alcarillo ( talk) 20:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
What that "Lithuania" part has to do with Lithuania? No Lithuania is ever mentioned within the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.118.46.117 ( talk) 23:16, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
I removed unsubstantiated information about Idema's supposed activities in Mexico. A search of this site came up with two articles, but they are in Spanish. It's not a language I know, and engines like Google Translate probably aren't good enough.
It would be helpful for an experienced editor who knows Spanish to add information, and cite accordingly, from the following:
http://www.sipse.com/noticias/59483-ubican-bacalar-mercenario-estadounidense.html and: http://www.sipse.com/noticias/59672---puede-aprehender-boina-verde-alor.html
Halda ( talk) 18:09, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
After reading much of the article, the line "He had left two times to Afghanistan on the orders of General Boykin,[41] from whom he took orders from most his life. " sourced from "democracy now" seems to contradict the article. Is the source wrong, lying, or is the rest of the article lying? Seems like a guilt-by-association piece of propaganda if the source is lying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.124.130 ( talk) 13:52, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jonathan Idema/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The pictures need fair use rationales. The fraud trial needs to be in the lead section, because it is mentioned in the section military service before even the fraud allegations are mentioned. The paragraph mentioning his scuba diving is best left out, as these kind of unsubstantiated claims cannot be proven this way. The first paragraph of Afghanistan, mentioning the charges against Idema, is completely unnecessary at this point. This section simply needs to describe his travel to Afghanistan, the charges should go to Arrest trial and sentencing. Er rab ee 11:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 11:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I've been trying to clean this article up a bit.
I'm deleting this tag: "This article relies extensively on quotations that were previously collated by an advocacy or lobbying group. (March 2012)". The article now seems to have sufficient citations to reliable sources, including BBC, the Economist, The New York Times, the Washington Post, that I don't think that this is accurate. I'm also deleting this tag "The neutrality of this article is disputed. (March 2012)" in that the information is mostly referenced-- for the moment, I am not deleting the similar tag "This article may be unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. (March 2012)" in that perhaps there may be other sources I'm not aware of (although whoever added this tag should have started a discussion of this in the talk page). And, finally, I'm deleting the "This article's factual accuracy is disputed. (March 2012)". Disputed by whom? If some of the facts are disputed, please tag those specific facts with a "citation needed" tag. Skepticalgiraffe ( talk) 19:44, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
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To be clear, did he ever officially even serve in the military? 2601:587:4300:97D0:4408:F878:145:AD64 ( talk) 14:36, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
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The second paragraph of the Afghan section currently reads:
Well, that sounds like speculation to me. My understanding of the no original research policy is that this kind of speculation can be included -- if the article is citing or quoting a verifiable, authoritative source.
There are verifiable sources that quote the claims Idema made in the Afghan court. Here is one:
Here is the key part:
I'd like to include Idema's claims. Trouble is, it doesn't fit if the article already takes a stand that he is a fantastist.
So, if that 2nd paragraph came from a verifiable, citable source, it should be cited. Agreed? If it is the speculation of one of our fellow contributors should it be cut? Shouldn't we be setting the facts before the reader, and letting them make up their own minds? -- Geo Swan 19:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
There is a reference to "Yunis Qanooni" in the later section that's currently red-linked. Should this be "Yunus Qanuni"? -- Bearda 15:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't seem to verify the last paragraph that Idema had been cleared of all charges. The linked article seems to have disappeared, and all other sources state that Edward Caraballo was released, but make no mention of Idema being cleared. Does anyone else have support for this claim? -- Bearda 16:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The latest is that Idema was suing the US Government (State Dept) for a habeaus corpus court documents show that he is not being held by the U.S. government and voluntarily chooses to stay in Pulicharki there is no reason. In my opinion it appears that Idema is trying to prevent being deported by the Afghan government to U.S. jurisdiction since he is directly resisting efforts of the consulate to assist in his repatriation. Idema wants to fly to New Delhi where his Tajik supporter Karim Khallili is ambassador. It has also been determined by the U.S. consulate that Idema is not destitute and has ample funds. Meanwhile Idema seems to inventing a story that he is being held against his will when in fact court papers show he is resisting deportation. So once again its important to focus on facts and remove any unfounded or false statements generated by Idema or his associates. Some of whom have been editing his bio. Thankfully it has been corrected. And I would like to apologize to "alcarillo" who I had previously critiqued for his reversions. I think we both see eye to eye on what constitutes useful additions and he also has a better understanding of certain disinformation techniques used on Wikipedia on this particular topic.
RYP
This guy is a pretty unimportant person to have such a long and detailed article. Most of which is unsourced and frankly not well written. I think this should be hammered down to one or two paragraphs. protohiro 01:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't agree. It's not too badly-written and it's interesting, even if he *isn't* very important. 146.115.45.103 01:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)L.
I'm suprised at how little media interest there is on Idema. I learned about him from a small excerpt in Newsweek. This article may help to fill this lack of information. Xpanzion 03:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is of any use, but there is a 45 minute video from 2005 on YouTube about private armies in Afghanistan and a significant portion is an interview of him in prison, making the claims about American and Northern alliance connections. The documentary was aired on SkyOne
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pCe2mso-uWc 2602:304:AEB7:BC0:FD4C:2B19:E8B4:BDC6 ( talk) 00:30, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
After reviewing lots of articles about Idema it seems like information is very scattered. A typical web surfer would probablbly either see just one side of the story, or would get frustrated with the difficulty of finding information ang give up. I think this is a great place to sum up this intriguing biographical information.
I'd like to see the following aspects covered at least:
Xpanzion 04:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Could someone clarify or expand on this section? The terms use jargon which need to be explained, such as:
Idema was repeatedly recycled just to get through training group and failed 05B training twice and was then recycled into 11B training.
What does this mean? Was he, or was he not a Green Beret? According to Robert Young Pelton's book Licenced to Kill, Idema was honorably discharged in February 1978. In light of the controversy surrounding Idema, the article needs to have sources confirming his military record. Alcarillo 16:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
05b training is special forces radio training. 11b training is for the MOS(Military Operations Specialty) of an infantryman. Many sources say that Idema was in special forces radio communications including Cao's blog. The word
recycled
probably subjests that Idema was sent back to more elementary training before retaking the special forces class for the third time. The only place I can find with the information about Idema failing this training is on the Stupor Patriots site
[1] The information is posted as an email from someone with Cao's blog. If anyone can find a more reliable source please reference it. If not this paragraph should be deleted. Xpanzion 23:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Lots of the information in the military service section seems to be from the stupor patriots site. I already removed the part about his father getting Idema back into special forces training, I can't find anything even close anywhere else. A more reputable source should be found for the information on Idema's military career. Xpanzion 23:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Idema's supporters claim Idema worked in many countries with special forces. Wide Awakes Radio His military record does not include any combat experience(this statement is included in the article), the argument for his international involvement has more to do with unofficial work, some of it outside of the military. Supporters of Idema are not made less credible by pointing to a lack of military records. Lets make sure both sides of this aspect of the story are articulated ; ) Xpanzion 02:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Jack and his team were attached to Delta 1 teams on more than one occasion starting in Central America. Honduras, Dominican Republic and Nicaragua. He was also at the Senate Hearing in the latter 70s and displayed how a 'dirty bomb' could be made from the radioactive elements obtained by a conjunct of two FBI/CIA agents brought back from not Lithuania but another black market source... There seems to be an unusual amount of abundance of scrubbed material regarding Jack Idema for someone not important. In fact all the credible information is gone, including pictures of Ronnie Reagan getting certified at Counter Group...which was run under a Majors name out of Pope AFB.. a lot of very wrong and tainted information about Jack here. Including his relationship with the Baptist Church group in NC. Information about Vickie is missing, his seaplane which was given to him from a government impound... a lottttt of information has been purposely scrubbed, deleted, tainted or white-washed. Jack did black bag work...
Looking at the article history, with its vandalism, reverts and other POV issues, it appears to be quite a back-and-forth between Idema and/or his supporters and Idema's critics. Therefore, I think the neutrality of this article has been compromised. At the very least, especially in the section "Unverified claims", the editing conflicts show with statements contradicting themselves. If information is not citied with verifiable sources, or if it violates wikipedia policy on point of view, it will be removed. Alcarillo 17:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Removed
Idema claims to have been active within the Army Special Forces during the early years of the civil war in El Salvador as part of Operation Quicksilver and aided in the training the El Salvadoran troops. citation needed It was reported that Idema was in El Salvador at the time but that he was in-country as a civilian and not operating with any military unit. citation needed
It was the first paragraph in the section of unverified claims. I could not find this information anywhere. The closest thing I found was on Wide Awakeness Radio. It mentioned many countries of Idema's activity, but did not mention operation quicksilver. WAR Xpanzion 18:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing this section slowly. There shouldn't be unverified claims presented for a living person, especially if they include negative claims. I have spent lots of time looking for reliable sources to cite, then when I found something that was unfounded I removed it completely. Some of the material was verifiable and I moved it to other sections. There is one positive unverified claim that I can't confirm.
Afghani press reports indicating Idema, and other Special Operation Forces were in Afghanistan in the 1980s and 1990s, during the Soviet Invasion, occupation and subsequent retreat were not found to be in error as far as Idema's participation is concerned. Idema did in fact have to be 'rescued' from the orginial Parlichuke Prison
If anyone can find a reliable source with this information please put the information in the Afghanistan section or military service. Xpanzion 05:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous user added this external link to the article, which I removed because it is a commercial site promoting the site author and/or a specific product: Warlords of Afghanistan: Jonathan Keith Idema. (see the relevant Wikipedia policy on external links to avoid) Alcarillo 16:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Idema was in fact at Saderat and was taken from there after about three months of torture to Pulacharke by the Northern Alliance, who are now treating him as a POW in accordance with the Geneva Conventions. Idema's Pulacharke ID card does not show him as a 'torturer' but rather as a 'political prisoner'. Edit was made by anon User:71.201.58.196
How did Idema pay for equipment, housing, and workers? At least one source said he payed the cameraman. Did he pay Bennett as well? He sold some material to news companies, but what money did he use before he began to sell material? I'm not sure if a definitive answer can be found, if not a list of theories would be useful. Xpanzion 22:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcarillo ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)."The investigation by ICE, the FBI, DEA, and IRS revealed that Alocozy’s business had been utilized by Jack Idema, the former Green Beret-turned bounty hunter who is currently imprisoned in Afghanistan for allegedly torturing Afghan civilians. During the investigation, Alocozy provided ICE investigators with copies of business ledgers indicating that Idema used Alocozy’s business to send funds from the U.S. to Afghanistan, presumably in support of his quest to capture Osama bin Laden and collect the $50 million reward.
Solid information about this group would improve the article greatly. Idema seems to have gained credibility through his relationship with this organization, also he may have recieved funding. The article currently states that Idema founded this group; however a google search for "counterr group" reveals sites that don't consistently state that Idema owns, or founded this company. I cannot find a stock listing for this company. The company website contains pictures of Idema, so there must be some relationship with Idema.
It makes me wonder if the company actually is owned or was founded by Idema. If not, what has Idema done for the company? Does the company actually do anything? What customers, if any, has this company advised? Who else works for them, and who fronted the money for its formation? If the website is truthful about the scale of the companies operations, which supposedly include a helicopter shooting range, then it must have been expensive to construct the training facilities. Xpanzion 19:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
This portion of the article seems somewhat misleading to me. It makes it sound like this entity existed only in someone's imagination or only on the web. This is far from the case. I personally met and knew Kieth in the 80's, and attended training seminars at the Counterrgroup facillities in Red Hook NY, just north of Poughkeepsie. The facilities abutted an airstrip and FBO owned by his family. Training facilities included: Conventional pistol and rifle ranges, urban assault and "jungle" assault ranges, rapelling tower, sniper ranges, and a commercial aircraft fuselage used for close quarters combat training. I still have some documentation from the seminars and other Counterrgroup literature from that time. Kieth was clearly the founder, director, and primary training instructor in all ventures, and had a trained paramedic on staff (also combat trained) as well as an assistant trainer during my time there. While I can not reference specific contracts carried out at this facility or the agencies involved, it was a going concern as the property owners in the area often complined publicly about the sound of gunfire at all hours of the day and night. The article should be revised somehow, while the documentation of ownership in the public record may be sketchy, there is no question that Kieth "owned" it, founded it, managed it, and it did what it advertised. 199.224.75.86 ( talk) 06:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I was able to find several articles pertaining to Idema published in The Fayetteville Observer [6] Some of them are archived and as such, not freely available. However, searching for "Idema" in the archives will yield the name of the article, the date of publication, the author, as well as some lead-in information. For the purposes of article references, where I could not get a URL for the article I included the article's ID number, which also shows up in the search results. Alcarillo 17:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
That recent AP story is looking dubious, now that Idema's site Superpatrios.us claims he refuses to leave Afghanistan without the dog. Pleasantville 14:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I have been noticing that people here have been overlooking the facts and adding unwarranted equivication about his criminal, arrest and military history.
Idema is not an American independent security contractor
He still is serving his sentence in PuliCharki
He didn't "allegedly" run a prison he is in prison for kidnapping and torturing afghan citizens.
I could go on but this entry simply gets too much fact deletion and fantasy addition.
Idema entered for National Geographic to do a documentary on Ed Artis, returned with tickets purchased by ABC news to do a reality show and anything he says about anything he was doing has to be weighed against the facts represented by his agent selling footage rights, his litigation threats and lost suits against media organizations. Covert operators don't do reality shows and hawk the film rights to TV. Also I noticed that much usable information has been deleted from this profile which shows that Idema's crew is busy trying to rewrite history and suppress information.
ConTerr (the emphasis on "Con") is the business vehicle Idema has used to pretend that he has some official function related to terrorism (not related to his terrorizing of afghans and us citizens via his and Lynn Thomas's website. His business cards and logo are deliberately used to mislead people into thinking he is affiliated with federal, state or local law enforcement.
Idema has about 6 known supporters: his father, his lawyer, Lynn Thomas, Thomas Bumback, Jim Morris, Ted Kavanaugh and of course himself. If you want to take their word over the U.S government, the large number of published and fact checked articles and pretend their is some conspiracy, you do Wikipedia and he truth a disservice. He publishes modified press articles on his site, issues false statements, threatens women, children, afghans and now even Karzai. Don't fall into be a hatemonger or stooge for a con man.
You can find a chapter on him in my book and a simple google will lead you to a number of accurate articles.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jonathan_Idema&curid=880676&diff=154197414&oldid=153094374 -- Pleasantville 18:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
From ABC News: New Al Qaeda Tape Surfaces Despite US Efforts to Block It. Article reports, "Al Qaeda also showed a video it said was captured from a US bounty hunter, Keith "Jack" Idema, as he appeared to threaten to kill an Afghani citizen during an interrogation." -- Pleasantville ( talk) 16:58, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Issue needs to be revisited due to recent events. Viriditas ( talk) 00:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I have added a mention of the new article describing the police report in which it is claimed that Idema attempted to acquire a laptop used by jailed imposter Joseph A. Cafasso. I presume that was the "recent event" referred to. -- Pleasantville ( talk) 16:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Is this an appropriate overall occupation for this subject's infobox?
Thanks, -- 4wajzkd02 ( talk) 23:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
“ | A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extrajudicial punishment to such a person. | ” |
Alcarillo ( talk) 20:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
What that "Lithuania" part has to do with Lithuania? No Lithuania is ever mentioned within the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.118.46.117 ( talk) 23:16, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
I removed unsubstantiated information about Idema's supposed activities in Mexico. A search of this site came up with two articles, but they are in Spanish. It's not a language I know, and engines like Google Translate probably aren't good enough.
It would be helpful for an experienced editor who knows Spanish to add information, and cite accordingly, from the following:
http://www.sipse.com/noticias/59483-ubican-bacalar-mercenario-estadounidense.html and: http://www.sipse.com/noticias/59672---puede-aprehender-boina-verde-alor.html
Halda ( talk) 18:09, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
After reading much of the article, the line "He had left two times to Afghanistan on the orders of General Boykin,[41] from whom he took orders from most his life. " sourced from "democracy now" seems to contradict the article. Is the source wrong, lying, or is the rest of the article lying? Seems like a guilt-by-association piece of propaganda if the source is lying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.124.130 ( talk) 13:52, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jonathan Idema/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The pictures need fair use rationales. The fraud trial needs to be in the lead section, because it is mentioned in the section military service before even the fraud allegations are mentioned. The paragraph mentioning his scuba diving is best left out, as these kind of unsubstantiated claims cannot be proven this way. The first paragraph of Afghanistan, mentioning the charges against Idema, is completely unnecessary at this point. This section simply needs to describe his travel to Afghanistan, the charges should go to Arrest trial and sentencing. Er rab ee 11:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 11:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I've been trying to clean this article up a bit.
I'm deleting this tag: "This article relies extensively on quotations that were previously collated by an advocacy or lobbying group. (March 2012)". The article now seems to have sufficient citations to reliable sources, including BBC, the Economist, The New York Times, the Washington Post, that I don't think that this is accurate. I'm also deleting this tag "The neutrality of this article is disputed. (March 2012)" in that the information is mostly referenced-- for the moment, I am not deleting the similar tag "This article may be unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. (March 2012)" in that perhaps there may be other sources I'm not aware of (although whoever added this tag should have started a discussion of this in the talk page). And, finally, I'm deleting the "This article's factual accuracy is disputed. (March 2012)". Disputed by whom? If some of the facts are disputed, please tag those specific facts with a "citation needed" tag. Skepticalgiraffe ( talk) 19:44, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
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To be clear, did he ever officially even serve in the military? 2601:587:4300:97D0:4408:F878:145:AD64 ( talk) 14:36, 20 July 2022 (UTC)