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The sentence "After a long series of false campaign ads, ugly homophobic attacks against Mongiardo, and George W. Bush's big win in the state, Bunning narrowly won the November 2 election by a mere 23,000 votes." seems to be more than a tad bit biased. For example, as I live in Kentucky I can tell you that there was a fair amount of mud-slinging on both sides. Besides, "factually accurate campaign ads" is a paradox nowadays. Much of what Mongiardo said, of course, was well exaggerated too.
I suppose my main problem with this article is that it makes Bunning out to be some sort of crazed maniac and Mongiardo out ot be his helpless victim. You should at least attempt to balance your criticizism of Bunning with the other side of the story.
This story, about Bunning no longer being quite so welcome in Michigan since he voted against Detroit, may be worth noting. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I would remind anoymous editors concerned about this issue that Wikipedia is not a forum. Regardless of one's personal feelings about Mr. Bunning's filibuster of the unemployment extension bill, please try to keep comments on this talk page limited to improvements/edits to the article as it relates to this issue. Thank you. DCmacnut <> 15:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I think we're all arguing semantics here. The Washington Post and other reliable sources have referred to this as a "one man filibuster." A filibuster doesn't necessarily mean talking and talking for hours. It can mean in the simplest terms holding up a bill. As has been said, this isn't a hold. Bunning has to actually be on the floor to object to the UC request. He can't simply object once in the morning and then leave for the day. If he did, anyone could offer the UC motion, and if Bunning wasn't there to object the bill goes through. Given the fact that he has to be on the floor to object, I'd say that close enough to qualify as a filibuster. DCmacnut <> 03:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
A filibuster, or "speaking or talking out a bill", is a form of obstruction in the United States Senate whereby a senator attempts to delay or entirely prevent a vote on a bill by extending the debate on that bill. In the United States Senate, the Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless 3/5 of the Senate (60 out of 100 Senators "duly chosen and sworn")[1] brings debate to a close by invoking cloture under Senate Rule XXII. According to the Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v. Ballin (1892), changes to Senate rules could however be achieved by a simple majority This is from Filibuster_(United_States) what he is doing is NOT a filibuster, even if news sources are trying to hype it up as such, he is 1 man he cannot filibuster he can just object to unanimous consen. If anything what he is doing is the oposite of a filibuster which is an attempt to prevent a vote, he is attempting to force a vote. i just changed it. Smitty1337 ( talk) 04:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Its not just semantics, I am right, please read http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm a filibuster is ONLY this. even if it is used incorrectly in popular culture to mean obstruction, it is an actual parlimentary action in the senate and it means blocking cloture. I.E. filibuster means to PREVENT a vote, not what bunning did, which is to force a vote. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
"compared to forty for a super majority filibuster." implies that this is a type of filibuster, or that there are "types" of filibusters, how about i just add some sources such as the senates page i listed above, and a few i'll canibalize from the filibuster page, im sure theres some good ones. This is NOT in any way a filibuster. I have no problem with saying that the media has called it such as long as it is explicitly clear that it is obstructionism at worst but not a filibuster, as there is no debate or cloture. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
If you want to claim
WP:V. then i will point out
Wikipedia:BLP. Higher quality of sources on contentious material is needed. A news article is not peer reviewed and it clearly has a factual error in an attempt to scandalize bunnings actions or to hype up the story. I have shown the source above, the senates own website stating what a filibuster is. Please find a source that can dispute that.
Smitty1337 (
talk) 05:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
"Characterized as a "one man filibuster" by the media (ref), it is an objection to unanimous consent which requires only one dissenter. Unanimous consent is used to expedite a bill for noncontroversial measures as this bill was expected to be." ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
What I haven't seen addressed at all is whether this is worthy of inclusion in the article. I don't think it is; it smacks of recentism. In the great scheme of things, how important is his holding up federal payments for a few days to this article? I think, taking a step back, people will conclude that it is not really worthy of inclusion. In any event, if editors do think it should be in, the language suggested now is a bit too precious. How about, "Bunning was accused of engaging in a "one-man filibuster" by objecting to unanimous consent requests that..." - Rrius ( talk) 06:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
As for inclusion, I would think a mention is currently required. Folks will be coming to this article looking for this information. Thoughts? ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)Bunning was accused of engaing in a "one-man filibuster" by Democrats and Republicans alike by objecting to unanimous consent, a procedure used for bills expected to pass routinely.
Its not really recentism though, even if the media moves on (and they will), it will still remain a controversial legislative action he took that drew critical reactions from a great many people. It may seem less important in a year but as far as stating facts about bunning it will be part of his legislative history. Smitty1337 ( talk) 06:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't it make sense to place the infoboxes in the apropos article sections (i.e. move {{ Infobox MLB player}} into the "Major League Baseball" section, and {{ Infobox Senator}} into the "Political career" section) and lead off the article with a simpler, less-specific one (e.g. {{ infobox person}}?
On a separate matter, why is his name in the political infobox "Jim Bunning(R-Ky.)"? That's not listed as his name in the article proper, nor does the infobox's documentation instruct anybody to do so. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 00:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Cut and pasted from above:
There very fact that you say, "I would think a mention is currently required," shows the problem. We don't add things that are noteworthy now, but will not be later. That is what WP:Recent is all about. It is simply not encyclopedic to stuff articles full of current events. This event is simply not an important part of Bunning's Senate service, so should not be included. This particular episode is dealt with blow-by-blow in a way that gives hugely disproportionate weight to it. It notes that Friday's session ran until 11:58 p.m. for god's sake. For what it's worth, I don't like Bunning as a politician, and don't care about him as a baseball player, so I'm not trying to protect him. - Rrius ( talk) 06:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Less weight, less fluff. Thoughts? ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)On February 25, 2010 Bunning objected to a proposal of unanimous consent for unemployment insurance, COBRA, and other federal programs, citing that this extension was not pay-as-you-go and wanted to fund the programs from the Stimulus Bill of 2009. While receiving some support, most of the members of the Senate urged him to drop his objections which he did on March 2nd.
is correct, it was not minor he held up an important bill. Lack of attention months or years from now does not mean that it is no longer relevent it just means that the media has moved on. This will be relevent at any time, but not given undue weight is important as well, 1 sentance and no follow up description of implications from the event. Thats my stance on it Smitty1337 ( talk) 07:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)To reiterate a bit. This event caused hundreds of thousands of people not getting benefits, tens of thousands of people were furloughed, Medicare doctors were not paid, some unemployed couldn't get medical coverage. This wasn't a minor event -- a blip. This had serious consequences -- at least up to the point he relented
I heard on CNN yesterday afternoon (Situation Room at 4 pm EST; I can't find the URL) that Senator Bunning may be planning to repeat his tactic on many spending bills over the spring and summer before he retires. No 30. (That's an old newspaper slug that means: More to come on this story.) -- RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 13:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
∴ Therefore cogito· sum 20:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)He said he plans to try to amend another bill containing a longer extension of benefits. And “I will be back on future spending bills,” he said.
"If you can't come to a consensus about how to present something of significance, best to leave it out altogether." - Wikipedia Lurkers and Trolls —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.186.52 ( talk) 14:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
To avoid an edit war with Arzel. I think that statement that he missed one of the most important senate votes of the year on a hugely important bill is notable. Especially when everyone else showed up. So it should be in the article. -- Eraserhead1 < talk> 08:35, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Is this enough to get you started, Arzel/Therefor? // Blaxthos ( t / c ) 20:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I never stated a reliable source question. I asked what makes it notable. Just adding addtional sources does't explain to the reader or anyone else what makes this a notable event. Currently there is no context for the sentence. It is just a minor piece of trivia that means absolutely nothing without additional explanation. So, exactly what source talks about what makes this a relevant event, and if it is why is that information not in the article? Currently it answers the "who?" and the "what?" and the "where?" but without the "why?" it doesn't mean anything. Arzel ( talk) 21:51, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
The external link from Washpo "WhoRunsGov" is a wiki. I am not quite sure how to remove it because of the way the external links are setup, but it does not belong. Arzel ( talk) 00:08, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
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A news item involving Jim Bunning was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 29 May 2017. |
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The sentence "After a long series of false campaign ads, ugly homophobic attacks against Mongiardo, and George W. Bush's big win in the state, Bunning narrowly won the November 2 election by a mere 23,000 votes." seems to be more than a tad bit biased. For example, as I live in Kentucky I can tell you that there was a fair amount of mud-slinging on both sides. Besides, "factually accurate campaign ads" is a paradox nowadays. Much of what Mongiardo said, of course, was well exaggerated too.
I suppose my main problem with this article is that it makes Bunning out to be some sort of crazed maniac and Mongiardo out ot be his helpless victim. You should at least attempt to balance your criticizism of Bunning with the other side of the story.
This story, about Bunning no longer being quite so welcome in Michigan since he voted against Detroit, may be worth noting. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I would remind anoymous editors concerned about this issue that Wikipedia is not a forum. Regardless of one's personal feelings about Mr. Bunning's filibuster of the unemployment extension bill, please try to keep comments on this talk page limited to improvements/edits to the article as it relates to this issue. Thank you. DCmacnut <> 15:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I think we're all arguing semantics here. The Washington Post and other reliable sources have referred to this as a "one man filibuster." A filibuster doesn't necessarily mean talking and talking for hours. It can mean in the simplest terms holding up a bill. As has been said, this isn't a hold. Bunning has to actually be on the floor to object to the UC request. He can't simply object once in the morning and then leave for the day. If he did, anyone could offer the UC motion, and if Bunning wasn't there to object the bill goes through. Given the fact that he has to be on the floor to object, I'd say that close enough to qualify as a filibuster. DCmacnut <> 03:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
A filibuster, or "speaking or talking out a bill", is a form of obstruction in the United States Senate whereby a senator attempts to delay or entirely prevent a vote on a bill by extending the debate on that bill. In the United States Senate, the Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless 3/5 of the Senate (60 out of 100 Senators "duly chosen and sworn")[1] brings debate to a close by invoking cloture under Senate Rule XXII. According to the Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v. Ballin (1892), changes to Senate rules could however be achieved by a simple majority This is from Filibuster_(United_States) what he is doing is NOT a filibuster, even if news sources are trying to hype it up as such, he is 1 man he cannot filibuster he can just object to unanimous consen. If anything what he is doing is the oposite of a filibuster which is an attempt to prevent a vote, he is attempting to force a vote. i just changed it. Smitty1337 ( talk) 04:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Its not just semantics, I am right, please read http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm a filibuster is ONLY this. even if it is used incorrectly in popular culture to mean obstruction, it is an actual parlimentary action in the senate and it means blocking cloture. I.E. filibuster means to PREVENT a vote, not what bunning did, which is to force a vote. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
"compared to forty for a super majority filibuster." implies that this is a type of filibuster, or that there are "types" of filibusters, how about i just add some sources such as the senates page i listed above, and a few i'll canibalize from the filibuster page, im sure theres some good ones. This is NOT in any way a filibuster. I have no problem with saying that the media has called it such as long as it is explicitly clear that it is obstructionism at worst but not a filibuster, as there is no debate or cloture. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
If you want to claim
WP:V. then i will point out
Wikipedia:BLP. Higher quality of sources on contentious material is needed. A news article is not peer reviewed and it clearly has a factual error in an attempt to scandalize bunnings actions or to hype up the story. I have shown the source above, the senates own website stating what a filibuster is. Please find a source that can dispute that.
Smitty1337 (
talk) 05:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
"Characterized as a "one man filibuster" by the media (ref), it is an objection to unanimous consent which requires only one dissenter. Unanimous consent is used to expedite a bill for noncontroversial measures as this bill was expected to be." ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
What I haven't seen addressed at all is whether this is worthy of inclusion in the article. I don't think it is; it smacks of recentism. In the great scheme of things, how important is his holding up federal payments for a few days to this article? I think, taking a step back, people will conclude that it is not really worthy of inclusion. In any event, if editors do think it should be in, the language suggested now is a bit too precious. How about, "Bunning was accused of engaging in a "one-man filibuster" by objecting to unanimous consent requests that..." - Rrius ( talk) 06:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
As for inclusion, I would think a mention is currently required. Folks will be coming to this article looking for this information. Thoughts? ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)Bunning was accused of engaing in a "one-man filibuster" by Democrats and Republicans alike by objecting to unanimous consent, a procedure used for bills expected to pass routinely.
Its not really recentism though, even if the media moves on (and they will), it will still remain a controversial legislative action he took that drew critical reactions from a great many people. It may seem less important in a year but as far as stating facts about bunning it will be part of his legislative history. Smitty1337 ( talk) 06:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't it make sense to place the infoboxes in the apropos article sections (i.e. move {{ Infobox MLB player}} into the "Major League Baseball" section, and {{ Infobox Senator}} into the "Political career" section) and lead off the article with a simpler, less-specific one (e.g. {{ infobox person}}?
On a separate matter, why is his name in the political infobox "Jim Bunning(R-Ky.)"? That's not listed as his name in the article proper, nor does the infobox's documentation instruct anybody to do so. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 00:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Cut and pasted from above:
There very fact that you say, "I would think a mention is currently required," shows the problem. We don't add things that are noteworthy now, but will not be later. That is what WP:Recent is all about. It is simply not encyclopedic to stuff articles full of current events. This event is simply not an important part of Bunning's Senate service, so should not be included. This particular episode is dealt with blow-by-blow in a way that gives hugely disproportionate weight to it. It notes that Friday's session ran until 11:58 p.m. for god's sake. For what it's worth, I don't like Bunning as a politician, and don't care about him as a baseball player, so I'm not trying to protect him. - Rrius ( talk) 06:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Less weight, less fluff. Thoughts? ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 06:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)On February 25, 2010 Bunning objected to a proposal of unanimous consent for unemployment insurance, COBRA, and other federal programs, citing that this extension was not pay-as-you-go and wanted to fund the programs from the Stimulus Bill of 2009. While receiving some support, most of the members of the Senate urged him to drop his objections which he did on March 2nd.
is correct, it was not minor he held up an important bill. Lack of attention months or years from now does not mean that it is no longer relevent it just means that the media has moved on. This will be relevent at any time, but not given undue weight is important as well, 1 sentance and no follow up description of implications from the event. Thats my stance on it Smitty1337 ( talk) 07:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)To reiterate a bit. This event caused hundreds of thousands of people not getting benefits, tens of thousands of people were furloughed, Medicare doctors were not paid, some unemployed couldn't get medical coverage. This wasn't a minor event -- a blip. This had serious consequences -- at least up to the point he relented
I heard on CNN yesterday afternoon (Situation Room at 4 pm EST; I can't find the URL) that Senator Bunning may be planning to repeat his tactic on many spending bills over the spring and summer before he retires. No 30. (That's an old newspaper slug that means: More to come on this story.) -- RoyGoldsmith ( talk) 13:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
∴ Therefore cogito· sum 20:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)He said he plans to try to amend another bill containing a longer extension of benefits. And “I will be back on future spending bills,” he said.
"If you can't come to a consensus about how to present something of significance, best to leave it out altogether." - Wikipedia Lurkers and Trolls —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.186.52 ( talk) 14:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
To avoid an edit war with Arzel. I think that statement that he missed one of the most important senate votes of the year on a hugely important bill is notable. Especially when everyone else showed up. So it should be in the article. -- Eraserhead1 < talk> 08:35, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Is this enough to get you started, Arzel/Therefor? // Blaxthos ( t / c ) 20:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I never stated a reliable source question. I asked what makes it notable. Just adding addtional sources does't explain to the reader or anyone else what makes this a notable event. Currently there is no context for the sentence. It is just a minor piece of trivia that means absolutely nothing without additional explanation. So, exactly what source talks about what makes this a relevant event, and if it is why is that information not in the article? Currently it answers the "who?" and the "what?" and the "where?" but without the "why?" it doesn't mean anything. Arzel ( talk) 21:51, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
The external link from Washpo "WhoRunsGov" is a wiki. I am not quite sure how to remove it because of the way the external links are setup, but it does not belong. Arzel ( talk) 00:08, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
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Baseball status as being exempt from antitrust laws has not really changed. The owners "voluntarily" removed the reserve clause from contracts as part of collective bargaining with the MLBPA. The Supreme Court, having ruled on the matter in 1922 in Federal Baseball Club v. National League that the exhibition of "base-ball games" was not "commerce" as envisioned by the framers of the Constitution has not changed subsequently reversed this holding, with the Court stating (on several occasions) that Congress could do this if it chose, but as of 2022 has never adopted any legislation to do so. 2600:1004:B103:28BF:0:13:B56C:F701 ( talk) 20:39, 29 March 2022 (UTC)