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A fact from Italian settlers in Libya appeared on Wikipedia's
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This article appears to be devoted to explaining Italian nationalism's claim to Libya rather than talking about Libyan Italians or Italian Libyans at all. It begins by speaking of the legitimacy of the Italian claim to Libya, saying it was taken away from the Romans by the Arabs while not mentioning that the Romans themselves took Libya from other peoples. It glorifies Italian colonialism of Libya with unvalidated statements like saying that Italians made Libya's economy equivelant to Libya's economy under the Roman Empire. This article is being used to glorify Italian nationalism and imperialism while saying nothing about what the article is supposed to be about, which is Italian Libyans and Libyan Italians. The layout of the page is currently unacceptable as of this critique by me being written.-- R-41 ( talk) 23:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I have now removed all the nationalist POV from the article. It now simply states facts and focusly solely on the topic of the article, Libyan Italians.-- R-41 ( talk) 03:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I have added data about Italo Balbo, called Father of Libya in "Taylor, Blaine. 'Fascist Eagle: Italy's Air Marshal Italo Balbo'. Montana: Pictorial Histories Publishing Company, 1996. ISBN 1-57510-012-6" and even references in a blockquote from Helen Chapin Metz of her book Libya: A Country Study. I don't see any glorification of italian nationalism and imperialism in the article but only an historical review of this disappeared community. Wikipedia must be free from fascism but even from antifascism in order to be an encyclopedia. T.W. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.86.226.13 ( talk) 04:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was moved to Italian settlers in Libya. Aervanath ( talk) 20:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Italian Libyans → Italians settlers in Libya — or Italians in Libya, Italian community of Libya, or any other suggested name which is not a neologism. Proposed title has several times as many GHits as "Italian Libyans" or "Libyan Italians", but other suggestions are welcome. The confusing "double-barrelled" forms Italian-Libyans/Libyan-Italians, or their Italian-language equivalents are barely seen in any reliable sources. 09:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
See some searches below:
Thanks, cab ( talk) 09:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe the move is a mistake, because Italian Libyans are not only Italians settlers in Libya but even those "born" in Libya who consider themselves as a group of Libyans (with italian roots) different from Jewish Libyan or Arab Libyans. In plain english: a settler is a foreigner, while an Italian lybian is a member of a group of Libyans with italian roots! G.F. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.140.51 ( talk) 02:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
The move is a mistake! In plain english: a settler is a foreigner, while an Italian libyan is a member of a group of Libyans with italian roots! I want to introduce asap a move request in order to go back to the old name "Italian Libyans".G.F. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.140.51 ( talk) 02:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I think that Italian Libyans is the right name for the descendants of Italian settlers who were born in Libya. While Italo Balbo, the Father of Libya (because he created Libya with the union of Tripolitania and Cyrenaica and Fezzan), can be defined as an "Italian settler in Libya", all those born in Libya like Gentile and others are actually "members of a group of Libyans with Italian roots" and so are called "Italian Libyans". Anyway, here it is a legal evidence: [1] from a google book (International Law Reports of E. Lauterpacht). Sincerely.-- Rew48 ( talk) 02:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
The point is that you cannot simply appropriate a term which has one meaning (like "Italian Libyan", which we've already established to mean "a person with citizenship of Italian Libya, regardless of ethnicity") and suddenly apply it to a different concept (Libyan people of Italian ancestry).
If you don't like the current title, one alternative is that the article be titled "Italian settlement in Libya". This is a widespread pattern in Wikipedia when we are discussing migration from a colonising nation to its colony (e.g. Japanese settlement in the Marshall Islands, American settlement in the Philippines). It also gives a framework for discussing topics like mixed-race people --- who aren't settlers, but who are obviously a side-effect of the colonisers' settlement. cab ( talk) 04:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Last June 2009 was done a move that seems "strange" to me. Just one or two voted and quickly appeared a new title..... Anyway, I sincerely don't understand why Italian Libyans cannot be used as a title, like Irish Americans or German Australians. Furthermore, German Namibians is related to colonial times like Italian Libyans, but it is accepted without problems. Just see Template:European Americans. Sincerely.-- Triasm ( talk) 03:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is the only article regarding a minority that it's called "XX settlers in Y"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.237.68.79 ( talk) 18:25, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't this event in geopolitical history warrent an entire article. It constitutes an act of ethnic cleansing in relatively modern times, but is barely mentioned over the entirity of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.35.132.55 ( talk) 00:20, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
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This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Italian settlers in Libya appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 9 May 2008, and was viewed approximately 2,828 times (
disclaimer) (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article appears to be devoted to explaining Italian nationalism's claim to Libya rather than talking about Libyan Italians or Italian Libyans at all. It begins by speaking of the legitimacy of the Italian claim to Libya, saying it was taken away from the Romans by the Arabs while not mentioning that the Romans themselves took Libya from other peoples. It glorifies Italian colonialism of Libya with unvalidated statements like saying that Italians made Libya's economy equivelant to Libya's economy under the Roman Empire. This article is being used to glorify Italian nationalism and imperialism while saying nothing about what the article is supposed to be about, which is Italian Libyans and Libyan Italians. The layout of the page is currently unacceptable as of this critique by me being written.-- R-41 ( talk) 23:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I have now removed all the nationalist POV from the article. It now simply states facts and focusly solely on the topic of the article, Libyan Italians.-- R-41 ( talk) 03:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I have added data about Italo Balbo, called Father of Libya in "Taylor, Blaine. 'Fascist Eagle: Italy's Air Marshal Italo Balbo'. Montana: Pictorial Histories Publishing Company, 1996. ISBN 1-57510-012-6" and even references in a blockquote from Helen Chapin Metz of her book Libya: A Country Study. I don't see any glorification of italian nationalism and imperialism in the article but only an historical review of this disappeared community. Wikipedia must be free from fascism but even from antifascism in order to be an encyclopedia. T.W. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.86.226.13 ( talk) 04:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was moved to Italian settlers in Libya. Aervanath ( talk) 20:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Italian Libyans → Italians settlers in Libya — or Italians in Libya, Italian community of Libya, or any other suggested name which is not a neologism. Proposed title has several times as many GHits as "Italian Libyans" or "Libyan Italians", but other suggestions are welcome. The confusing "double-barrelled" forms Italian-Libyans/Libyan-Italians, or their Italian-language equivalents are barely seen in any reliable sources. 09:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
See some searches below:
Thanks, cab ( talk) 09:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe the move is a mistake, because Italian Libyans are not only Italians settlers in Libya but even those "born" in Libya who consider themselves as a group of Libyans (with italian roots) different from Jewish Libyan or Arab Libyans. In plain english: a settler is a foreigner, while an Italian lybian is a member of a group of Libyans with italian roots! G.F. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.140.51 ( talk) 02:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
The move is a mistake! In plain english: a settler is a foreigner, while an Italian libyan is a member of a group of Libyans with italian roots! I want to introduce asap a move request in order to go back to the old name "Italian Libyans".G.F. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.140.51 ( talk) 02:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I think that Italian Libyans is the right name for the descendants of Italian settlers who were born in Libya. While Italo Balbo, the Father of Libya (because he created Libya with the union of Tripolitania and Cyrenaica and Fezzan), can be defined as an "Italian settler in Libya", all those born in Libya like Gentile and others are actually "members of a group of Libyans with Italian roots" and so are called "Italian Libyans". Anyway, here it is a legal evidence: [1] from a google book (International Law Reports of E. Lauterpacht). Sincerely.-- Rew48 ( talk) 02:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
The point is that you cannot simply appropriate a term which has one meaning (like "Italian Libyan", which we've already established to mean "a person with citizenship of Italian Libya, regardless of ethnicity") and suddenly apply it to a different concept (Libyan people of Italian ancestry).
If you don't like the current title, one alternative is that the article be titled "Italian settlement in Libya". This is a widespread pattern in Wikipedia when we are discussing migration from a colonising nation to its colony (e.g. Japanese settlement in the Marshall Islands, American settlement in the Philippines). It also gives a framework for discussing topics like mixed-race people --- who aren't settlers, but who are obviously a side-effect of the colonisers' settlement. cab ( talk) 04:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Last June 2009 was done a move that seems "strange" to me. Just one or two voted and quickly appeared a new title..... Anyway, I sincerely don't understand why Italian Libyans cannot be used as a title, like Irish Americans or German Australians. Furthermore, German Namibians is related to colonial times like Italian Libyans, but it is accepted without problems. Just see Template:European Americans. Sincerely.-- Triasm ( talk) 03:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is the only article regarding a minority that it's called "XX settlers in Y"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.237.68.79 ( talk) 18:25, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't this event in geopolitical history warrent an entire article. It constitutes an act of ethnic cleansing in relatively modern times, but is barely mentioned over the entirity of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.35.132.55 ( talk) 00:20, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Italian settlers in Libya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:54, 18 November 2017 (UTC)