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What is the Role of Religious Parties in Pakistan
The assertion in the following text of the article: '..this was due to the fact that Raja Dahir had given refuge to numerous Zorostrian Princes who had fled the Islamic invasion of Iran. The Arabs demanded their return to face forced conversion or death and they refused to return. Mohummad Bin Qasim's army was defeated in his first thee attempts....' is untrue. Mohammad bin Qasim was sent by the Governor of Kufa under the order of the Omayyad Caliph from Damascus to liberate the pilgrims. Mohammad bin Qasim's army was victorious & was never defeated otherwise he would have not conquered the province of Sind & he would not be a 'Hero of Sind'. It is also untrue, he did not conquer the province of Punjab, which was conquered later by others. Ilaila ( talk) 15:22, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
sunni is actually 90% and Shia 9%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Pakistan#Religions
This article seems to convey that people of the subcontinent were converted to Islam only due to pirs. Some pirs might have entered the subcontinent in the eighth century (we would like to see some references on that), but all unbiased historians would agree that massive conversion of South Asian populations to Islam -- which accounts for the 450 million Muslims in the region today -- was brought about only during Islamic rule, due to policies which are discussed elsewhere in wikipedia. Selective presentation of history by not mentioning the Islamic invasions, and attributing the presence of Islam in the subcontinent completely to pirs is highly objectionable. 70.105.188.134 02:26, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)yes i am agree with you but actually islam was brought by mohammad bin qasim in this region not by religious parties
I agree with you for the most part. Yet Pirs did have a strong role in spreading Islam, especially among the lower castes. They made Islam the most appealing to the Indian people as opposed to the sword-wielding fury of the Ghazanvids, the Ghorids or some of the Mughals. Some of them, such as Shirdi Sai Baba and Chishti, have gained fame even among the Hindus. Yet, much of the Indian population also embraced Islam due to fear of death. I think both should be treated with equal importance, as they are probably the dominant factors as to why 30-40% of the people on the subcontinent follow Islam. -[[ Afghan Historian 17:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)]]
If no one has any objections, I will modify the article in two days 70.105.188.134 02:33, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This article states Islamic dogma as though it were fact ("Because the Prophet established a government in Medina...") and quite clearly expresses disapproval of Ahmadi Muslims, going as far as to append the adjective "heretical" to them, when no adjective is necessary. It defines Ahmadis as "a small group known to be outside the pale of Islam according to the teachings and tenets of all branches of Islam, both Sunni and Shia." I would edit the article, but I really know next to nothing about the subject. Sammy1339 22:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sammy "Ahmadis" are not Muslims at all because they do not accept the few of the very primary standards to be accepted as a Muslim. Those standards are fundamentally important in their conception that whosoever denies it is anything but a Muslim. To name one is the belief on Muhammad (PBUH) as the last Prophet of God on mankind, which they do not accept and henceforth they are not accepted as "Muslims" but called "Ahmadis" or "Qadianis". I hope its clear why they are not Muslims.
Dear sir, reading above lines, I felt that you lack knowledge on above subject as well. If they (in your words do not accept Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) as last Prophet) then it is your belief too. I think you also belief that Prophet Isa will return some time later and he will remain a "Prophet". Now why you think that make you also not Muslim. You have a similar belief as well. When you say "Belief" than its mean, you are 100% sure and you can present proove also. Can you provide some ? if not, then we should take it as a baseless arguments. regards phippi46 13:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
reply to phippi46 "Prophet Isa will return some time" he is going to return not to teach us something new but to continue the law that has already been given and to remove all the alligations that were put on him .And reading your remarks i think you are islamaphobic 124.29.195.111 15:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
And how do you know what he is going to do? He had 1000+ years to change his mind!
This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.
Jjdon (
talk) 21:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Im not desputing whether the salafi statistics are real or not because I dont have knowledge on the subject but there is no references so id like to see a reference as I wanted to check teh source of information to learn more about the subject. thanks.
Abdurrahman
Ahmadis are not considered Muslims under the constitution of Pakistan and by Muslims. The edit war to change the facts is unfortunate. The Ahmadi editors are reverting not only this fact but also other changes I made in media and Education section which has nothing to with Ahmadis. AlphaGamma1991 ( talk) 13:42, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Ahmadis may not be considered muslims by Pakistan, but that doesn't and shouldn't take away their right of claiming to be muslims. It has already been mentioned in the edit that accoding to Pakistan law they are not muslims - and that is enough. Peaceworld111 ( talk) 17:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
>> Pakistan's madrassas reined in by government( Lihaas ( talk) 19:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)).
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islam in Pakistan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Walsh":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:48, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islam in Pakistan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "World Scientific":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 18:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
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117.234.18.224Yes, take a look at Nasabi and Rafi HammadShakeel911 ( talk) 14:58, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
117.234.18.224 Yes, take a look at Nasabi and Rafi Now tell me, who is Nasabi and who is Rafi? HammadShakeel911 ( talk) 15:00, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
I politely request (so as not to invite any retribution for whistleblowing) the Indian editors not to edit Sufism in Pakistan in a way that Hazrat Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, who was an orthodox saint is made to look like the founder of Qalandariya (which is something different even though he does have many Hindu followers now) as well as the most important Sufi saint in Pakistan, even more important than Bahauddin Zakariya, Jalaluddin Shurkh-Posh Bukhari and Fariduddin Ganjshakar. Why are we the majority Ahle Sunnat/Sunni/Barelvi muslims always made to look like non-muslims and anyone who keeps money in Islamic banks is labelled Najdi Wahhabi and Kharijite or Iranian Rafidha when it is actually India that doesn't let Pakistan have a Barelvi bank? 103.232.102.25 ( talk) 14:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Previous status there after Edit difs 1140023379 & 1140024654 seem to differ on ".. In Pakistan, the (Barelvi? or Deobandi ?) school of thought has a majority following ..".
Either of the choice seem to fail citation verification. As of now citation is of Arshi Saleem Hashmi url=http://prr.hec.gov.pk/jspui/handle/123456789/887 the cited article seem to have different focus.
Either of following template may be suitable.
Template: Failed verification
Template: Request quotation
Template:
Citation needed
Template: Additional citation needed
IMHO In cases authoritative population statistics unlikely to be available if any authors close to govt or establishment are quoted then ok but where independent academic sourcing is possible that also should be mentioned. I suppose enough quality sourcing is likely to be available.
Bookku (
talk) 06:30, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
when the article says "The majority are Sunni (85-90%)[14][15][16][17][18] while Shias make up between 10% to 15%.[19][15][20][21][22][23] However, the Hanbali school is gaining popularity recently due to Wahhabi influence from the Middle East" it seems to imply that the Hanbali school is another sect of Islam instead of a part of Sunni Islam 216.15.15.59 ( talk) 15:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The concerned edit dif, Idk any sourcing issues but edit summary seems bit like view of a section which some others may disagree too.
Intermittent once in a while deletions about Ahmadiyya from various Wikipedia article can be observed, this deletion attempt also may be one of them. IDK Wikipedia consensus guidelines if any in regarding mention of Ahmadiyya as Muslim.
Will wait for inputs from other users, but in case of no inputs I would contemplate to restore content to previous version. Bookku ( talk) 11:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Islam in Pakistan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
What is the Role of Religious Parties in Pakistan
The assertion in the following text of the article: '..this was due to the fact that Raja Dahir had given refuge to numerous Zorostrian Princes who had fled the Islamic invasion of Iran. The Arabs demanded their return to face forced conversion or death and they refused to return. Mohummad Bin Qasim's army was defeated in his first thee attempts....' is untrue. Mohammad bin Qasim was sent by the Governor of Kufa under the order of the Omayyad Caliph from Damascus to liberate the pilgrims. Mohammad bin Qasim's army was victorious & was never defeated otherwise he would have not conquered the province of Sind & he would not be a 'Hero of Sind'. It is also untrue, he did not conquer the province of Punjab, which was conquered later by others. Ilaila ( talk) 15:22, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
sunni is actually 90% and Shia 9%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Pakistan#Religions
This article seems to convey that people of the subcontinent were converted to Islam only due to pirs. Some pirs might have entered the subcontinent in the eighth century (we would like to see some references on that), but all unbiased historians would agree that massive conversion of South Asian populations to Islam -- which accounts for the 450 million Muslims in the region today -- was brought about only during Islamic rule, due to policies which are discussed elsewhere in wikipedia. Selective presentation of history by not mentioning the Islamic invasions, and attributing the presence of Islam in the subcontinent completely to pirs is highly objectionable. 70.105.188.134 02:26, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)yes i am agree with you but actually islam was brought by mohammad bin qasim in this region not by religious parties
I agree with you for the most part. Yet Pirs did have a strong role in spreading Islam, especially among the lower castes. They made Islam the most appealing to the Indian people as opposed to the sword-wielding fury of the Ghazanvids, the Ghorids or some of the Mughals. Some of them, such as Shirdi Sai Baba and Chishti, have gained fame even among the Hindus. Yet, much of the Indian population also embraced Islam due to fear of death. I think both should be treated with equal importance, as they are probably the dominant factors as to why 30-40% of the people on the subcontinent follow Islam. -[[ Afghan Historian 17:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)]]
If no one has any objections, I will modify the article in two days 70.105.188.134 02:33, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This article states Islamic dogma as though it were fact ("Because the Prophet established a government in Medina...") and quite clearly expresses disapproval of Ahmadi Muslims, going as far as to append the adjective "heretical" to them, when no adjective is necessary. It defines Ahmadis as "a small group known to be outside the pale of Islam according to the teachings and tenets of all branches of Islam, both Sunni and Shia." I would edit the article, but I really know next to nothing about the subject. Sammy1339 22:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sammy "Ahmadis" are not Muslims at all because they do not accept the few of the very primary standards to be accepted as a Muslim. Those standards are fundamentally important in their conception that whosoever denies it is anything but a Muslim. To name one is the belief on Muhammad (PBUH) as the last Prophet of God on mankind, which they do not accept and henceforth they are not accepted as "Muslims" but called "Ahmadis" or "Qadianis". I hope its clear why they are not Muslims.
Dear sir, reading above lines, I felt that you lack knowledge on above subject as well. If they (in your words do not accept Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) as last Prophet) then it is your belief too. I think you also belief that Prophet Isa will return some time later and he will remain a "Prophet". Now why you think that make you also not Muslim. You have a similar belief as well. When you say "Belief" than its mean, you are 100% sure and you can present proove also. Can you provide some ? if not, then we should take it as a baseless arguments. regards phippi46 13:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
reply to phippi46 "Prophet Isa will return some time" he is going to return not to teach us something new but to continue the law that has already been given and to remove all the alligations that were put on him .And reading your remarks i think you are islamaphobic 124.29.195.111 15:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
And how do you know what he is going to do? He had 1000+ years to change his mind!
This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.
Jjdon (
talk) 21:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Im not desputing whether the salafi statistics are real or not because I dont have knowledge on the subject but there is no references so id like to see a reference as I wanted to check teh source of information to learn more about the subject. thanks.
Abdurrahman
Ahmadis are not considered Muslims under the constitution of Pakistan and by Muslims. The edit war to change the facts is unfortunate. The Ahmadi editors are reverting not only this fact but also other changes I made in media and Education section which has nothing to with Ahmadis. AlphaGamma1991 ( talk) 13:42, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Ahmadis may not be considered muslims by Pakistan, but that doesn't and shouldn't take away their right of claiming to be muslims. It has already been mentioned in the edit that accoding to Pakistan law they are not muslims - and that is enough. Peaceworld111 ( talk) 17:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
>> Pakistan's madrassas reined in by government( Lihaas ( talk) 19:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)).
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islam in Pakistan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Walsh":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:48, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islam in Pakistan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "World Scientific":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 18:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Islam in Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:03, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
117.234.18.224Yes, take a look at Nasabi and Rafi HammadShakeel911 ( talk) 14:58, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
117.234.18.224 Yes, take a look at Nasabi and Rafi Now tell me, who is Nasabi and who is Rafi? HammadShakeel911 ( talk) 15:00, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
I politely request (so as not to invite any retribution for whistleblowing) the Indian editors not to edit Sufism in Pakistan in a way that Hazrat Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, who was an orthodox saint is made to look like the founder of Qalandariya (which is something different even though he does have many Hindu followers now) as well as the most important Sufi saint in Pakistan, even more important than Bahauddin Zakariya, Jalaluddin Shurkh-Posh Bukhari and Fariduddin Ganjshakar. Why are we the majority Ahle Sunnat/Sunni/Barelvi muslims always made to look like non-muslims and anyone who keeps money in Islamic banks is labelled Najdi Wahhabi and Kharijite or Iranian Rafidha when it is actually India that doesn't let Pakistan have a Barelvi bank? 103.232.102.25 ( talk) 14:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Previous status there after Edit difs 1140023379 & 1140024654 seem to differ on ".. In Pakistan, the (Barelvi? or Deobandi ?) school of thought has a majority following ..".
Either of the choice seem to fail citation verification. As of now citation is of Arshi Saleem Hashmi url=http://prr.hec.gov.pk/jspui/handle/123456789/887 the cited article seem to have different focus.
Either of following template may be suitable.
Template: Failed verification
Template: Request quotation
Template:
Citation needed
Template: Additional citation needed
IMHO In cases authoritative population statistics unlikely to be available if any authors close to govt or establishment are quoted then ok but where independent academic sourcing is possible that also should be mentioned. I suppose enough quality sourcing is likely to be available.
Bookku (
talk) 06:30, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
when the article says "The majority are Sunni (85-90%)[14][15][16][17][18] while Shias make up between 10% to 15%.[19][15][20][21][22][23] However, the Hanbali school is gaining popularity recently due to Wahhabi influence from the Middle East" it seems to imply that the Hanbali school is another sect of Islam instead of a part of Sunni Islam 216.15.15.59 ( talk) 15:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The concerned edit dif, Idk any sourcing issues but edit summary seems bit like view of a section which some others may disagree too.
Intermittent once in a while deletions about Ahmadiyya from various Wikipedia article can be observed, this deletion attempt also may be one of them. IDK Wikipedia consensus guidelines if any in regarding mention of Ahmadiyya as Muslim.
Will wait for inputs from other users, but in case of no inputs I would contemplate to restore content to previous version. Bookku ( talk) 11:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)