 | Content on this page has been merged from Talk:Indiana Toll Road/major moves. The content had been originally at Major Moves, but that was moved to a subpage of the talk page to preserve the history but also free up the Major Moves title for another work. |
 | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Talk:Indiana Toll Road/major moves was copied or moved into Indiana Toll Road with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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In case linkrot sets in, the South Bend article linked (twice) in the History section through footnotes is entitled "Indiana's toll road seen as link in a chain" (January 22, 2006).
Marc Fannin, www.roadfan.com (responsible for some, but not all, edits originating from User:198.30.228.3 - now user: Mapsax) (wikilink added 2009-04-03)
My comment about the I-90/I-94 switch in the history section is based on map research and comments in the Usenet newsgroup misc.transport.road , searchable through Google Groups. Mapsax 21:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
My comment about the old control city legends is from memory. If a backup is needed, one may contact the Indiana Department of Transportation as it's likely that they have photographic or textual proof somewhere in their archives. Mapsax 18:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
How about including the "shield" emblems for all US and State Highways at which the Toll Road has interchanges (i.e., State Route 53, State Route 49, etc.)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.86.240.73 ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 13 December 2006 (EST).
Does anyone know if this road was built and maintained without federal funding- because otherwise it could not get a designation as an Interstate while maintaining a private toll? John celona ( talk) 23:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
- It’s kinda weird, the road is maintained by the ITRCC which is a subsidiary of IFM Investors, an Australian company, but obviously that’s on the other side of the world, so the Indiana DOT definitely had to help it out, plus it’s a major road in Indiana, plus heavily traveled on in between Chicago and Cleveland, so the state govt helped out on building the highway, with some help from the federal gov thanks to Eisenhower’s highway act. A bunch of portions of interstates are privately owned like the NJ turnpike or Mass Pike, so unless there’s a weird exception to this, it is federally overlooked. Apologies for the long answer to a 2008 question but there you go. Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 22:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ Jason Ingtonn: I think you got everything wrong in your comments here, and a quick read of the article and Interstate Highway System answers most of the question posited above.
- Construction of the toll road predates the Interstate Highway System. As such, it could not be federally financed with the system. The highway was built and initially operated by the Indiana Toll Road Commission, an agency of the State of Indiana. When the Interstate Highway System was initially designated, various toll roads, including this one, were grandfathered into the system to provide connectivity without duplicating corridors. Later, responsibility for the highway passed to the Indiana Department of Transportation. It is still owned by the State of Indiana, however it has been leased to private companies for maintenance. The companies paid an upfront leasing fee in exchange for the ability to collect the toll revenue for 75 years. In short, ITRCC had nothing to do with the construction of this highway and didn't even exist in the 1950s. Imzadi 1979 → 23:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the corrections, I looked into it before typing and was rather confused since it seemed like maintenance flip flopped between the DOT and ITRCC, it also seemed like the original question was asked during a transition period which may have changed since then. Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 14:23, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
With the template added, there are now errors which I don't know how to correct because I'm unfamiliar with the template.
- "Broadway" (Exit 14B) is being interpreted to be a place, not a street, and therefore is linking to the nonexistent Broadway, Indiana.
- Some U.S. highways do not yet have "U.S. Route xx in [state]" articles yet, such as US-421 (Exit 39), so the link is red and I can't figure out how to change the link to U.S. Route 421.
- Niles, Michigan (Exit 72) is linked as the nonexistent Niles, Indiana. (Note my edit then revert.)
- Business U.S. 31 South Bend is represented on Bannered routes of U.S. Route 31 which needs to be pipe-linked in the Business 31 entry (Exit 77).
Mapsax ( talk) 23:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
What has been the impact of selling the toll collection and maintenance on fares? Mulp ( talk) 01:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
- Tolls have gone up.
- Benman, Keith (30 June 2010). "Indiana Toll Road tolls go up Thursday". The Northwest Indiana Times. Retrieved 8 January 2011.
- It looks to me like the automobile toll was $4.65 in 2006 (indeed, all the way back to 1985), the year the Indiana Toll Road was leased to a private company. In 2008, when electronic toll booths were installed, the toll for cars paying in cash was raised to $8, but remained $4.65 for electronic toll payers, where they will remain until 2016.
- The agreement allows the Indiana Toll Road operator to increase the toll by 2% annually, but critics delayed application of the annual increase until last year, at which time the deferred increases were applied, raising the car cash toll 10% to $8.80. My spreadsheet suggests that the car cash toll will go up to $9 in July 2011.
- Actually the formula for the anual increase is more generous than I described: it is the greater of {2%, CPI change, and per-capita GDP change}. (Weird, huh? They get at least 2%, good times or bad, and they are protected from inflation ... and if the economy is growing, well, they get a piece of that action too! Must be nice ...)
- I've gone on long enough ... so I won't go into truck tolls.
- Peterhoneyman ( talk) 00:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm asking for a source for these names and their usage. Unlike the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I'm not aware that the interchange names are signed. The PATP has them on the bottom of the guide signs for each exit, yet I don't recall something similar for the ITR. So, how are the names used?
- Ok, I got a source for the names, but not their usage. Are the names actually signed and in use? If they're toll-ticket only, I'm going to say that the entire column needs to be removed because their not on the signs.
Imzadi 1979
→ 01:53, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have removed the coding needed to display the names, but left their definitions in place. Like I said before, if they're not used on signage, they shouldn't be in the table.
Imzadi 1979
→ 19:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- BTW, I did the removal under the auspices of WP:BRD. Someone else was bold, I have now reverted, and it's time to discuss. I'm still waiting for proof that these names are used on more than an website listing and actually used on signage along the road. Show me a sign similar to File:PA TPK EB 1 mi to Willow Grove.JPG which has the "Willow Grove" name on the actual guide sign for exit 343 along the PATP. If you can produce such a sign for the ITR, then you have my support for including the column. If not, I oppose the inclusion of such a column. Imzadi 1979 → 20:49, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have removed the coding needed to display the names, but left their definitions in place. Like I said before, if they're not used on signage, they shouldn't be in the table.
Imzadi 1979
→ 19:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
The source says that the cash section started with the 1986 computer system implementation but there would probably have been no reason to wait to convert to cash during the delay the two years prior. Mapsax ( talk) 23:34, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
If you look at the page for massachusetts turnpike (i 90 in mass) it has Interstate 90 as a secondary/ alternate name, with the interstate shield logo next to the logo for the turnpike, at the header for the top infobox.
I’m suggesting here that do the same for the Indiana Toll Road page for the infobox, it makes sense to have it like that, but I tried and it was undone, being told it’s redundant, but I don’t think it is, since it’s a secondary name, it should be made perfectly clear.
Lemme know what you think or if there’s any other cons to setting it as such Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 20:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- It is redundant to the Component highways listing in the infobox. There's a minor distinction between the Indiana Toll Road and the Massachusetts Turnpike. While I-90 is coextensive with both, I-80 overlaps a significant portion of the toll road in Indiana. That's why I-80 and I-90 are listed as component highways for the toll road. Imzadi 1979 → 20:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, i didn’t know that Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 22:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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| Content on this page has been merged from Talk:Indiana Toll Road/major moves. The content had been originally at Major Moves, but that was moved to a subpage of the talk page to preserve the history but also free up the Major Moves title for another work. |
| Text and/or other creative content from this version of Talk:Indiana Toll Road/major moves was copied or moved into Indiana Toll Road with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
|
| This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In case linkrot sets in, the South Bend article linked (twice) in the History section through footnotes is entitled "Indiana's toll road seen as link in a chain" (January 22, 2006).
Marc Fannin, www.roadfan.com (responsible for some, but not all, edits originating from User:198.30.228.3 - now user: Mapsax) (wikilink added 2009-04-03)
My comment about the I-90/I-94 switch in the history section is based on map research and comments in the Usenet newsgroup misc.transport.road , searchable through Google Groups. Mapsax 21:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
My comment about the old control city legends is from memory. If a backup is needed, one may contact the Indiana Department of Transportation as it's likely that they have photographic or textual proof somewhere in their archives. Mapsax 18:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
How about including the "shield" emblems for all US and State Highways at which the Toll Road has interchanges (i.e., State Route 53, State Route 49, etc.)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.86.240.73 ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 13 December 2006 (EST).
Does anyone know if this road was built and maintained without federal funding- because otherwise it could not get a designation as an Interstate while maintaining a private toll? John celona ( talk) 23:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
- It’s kinda weird, the road is maintained by the ITRCC which is a subsidiary of IFM Investors, an Australian company, but obviously that’s on the other side of the world, so the Indiana DOT definitely had to help it out, plus it’s a major road in Indiana, plus heavily traveled on in between Chicago and Cleveland, so the state govt helped out on building the highway, with some help from the federal gov thanks to Eisenhower’s highway act. A bunch of portions of interstates are privately owned like the NJ turnpike or Mass Pike, so unless there’s a weird exception to this, it is federally overlooked. Apologies for the long answer to a 2008 question but there you go. Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 22:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- @ Jason Ingtonn: I think you got everything wrong in your comments here, and a quick read of the article and Interstate Highway System answers most of the question posited above.
- Construction of the toll road predates the Interstate Highway System. As such, it could not be federally financed with the system. The highway was built and initially operated by the Indiana Toll Road Commission, an agency of the State of Indiana. When the Interstate Highway System was initially designated, various toll roads, including this one, were grandfathered into the system to provide connectivity without duplicating corridors. Later, responsibility for the highway passed to the Indiana Department of Transportation. It is still owned by the State of Indiana, however it has been leased to private companies for maintenance. The companies paid an upfront leasing fee in exchange for the ability to collect the toll revenue for 75 years. In short, ITRCC had nothing to do with the construction of this highway and didn't even exist in the 1950s. Imzadi 1979 → 23:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the corrections, I looked into it before typing and was rather confused since it seemed like maintenance flip flopped between the DOT and ITRCC, it also seemed like the original question was asked during a transition period which may have changed since then. Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 14:23, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
With the template added, there are now errors which I don't know how to correct because I'm unfamiliar with the template.
- "Broadway" (Exit 14B) is being interpreted to be a place, not a street, and therefore is linking to the nonexistent Broadway, Indiana.
- Some U.S. highways do not yet have "U.S. Route xx in [state]" articles yet, such as US-421 (Exit 39), so the link is red and I can't figure out how to change the link to U.S. Route 421.
- Niles, Michigan (Exit 72) is linked as the nonexistent Niles, Indiana. (Note my edit then revert.)
- Business U.S. 31 South Bend is represented on Bannered routes of U.S. Route 31 which needs to be pipe-linked in the Business 31 entry (Exit 77).
Mapsax ( talk) 23:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
What has been the impact of selling the toll collection and maintenance on fares? Mulp ( talk) 01:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
- Tolls have gone up.
- Benman, Keith (30 June 2010). "Indiana Toll Road tolls go up Thursday". The Northwest Indiana Times. Retrieved 8 January 2011.
- It looks to me like the automobile toll was $4.65 in 2006 (indeed, all the way back to 1985), the year the Indiana Toll Road was leased to a private company. In 2008, when electronic toll booths were installed, the toll for cars paying in cash was raised to $8, but remained $4.65 for electronic toll payers, where they will remain until 2016.
- The agreement allows the Indiana Toll Road operator to increase the toll by 2% annually, but critics delayed application of the annual increase until last year, at which time the deferred increases were applied, raising the car cash toll 10% to $8.80. My spreadsheet suggests that the car cash toll will go up to $9 in July 2011.
- Actually the formula for the anual increase is more generous than I described: it is the greater of {2%, CPI change, and per-capita GDP change}. (Weird, huh? They get at least 2%, good times or bad, and they are protected from inflation ... and if the economy is growing, well, they get a piece of that action too! Must be nice ...)
- I've gone on long enough ... so I won't go into truck tolls.
- Peterhoneyman ( talk) 00:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm asking for a source for these names and their usage. Unlike the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I'm not aware that the interchange names are signed. The PATP has them on the bottom of the guide signs for each exit, yet I don't recall something similar for the ITR. So, how are the names used?
- Ok, I got a source for the names, but not their usage. Are the names actually signed and in use? If they're toll-ticket only, I'm going to say that the entire column needs to be removed because their not on the signs.
Imzadi 1979
→ 01:53, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have removed the coding needed to display the names, but left their definitions in place. Like I said before, if they're not used on signage, they shouldn't be in the table.
Imzadi 1979
→ 19:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- BTW, I did the removal under the auspices of WP:BRD. Someone else was bold, I have now reverted, and it's time to discuss. I'm still waiting for proof that these names are used on more than an website listing and actually used on signage along the road. Show me a sign similar to File:PA TPK EB 1 mi to Willow Grove.JPG which has the "Willow Grove" name on the actual guide sign for exit 343 along the PATP. If you can produce such a sign for the ITR, then you have my support for including the column. If not, I oppose the inclusion of such a column. Imzadi 1979 → 20:49, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have removed the coding needed to display the names, but left their definitions in place. Like I said before, if they're not used on signage, they shouldn't be in the table.
Imzadi 1979
→ 19:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
The source says that the cash section started with the 1986 computer system implementation but there would probably have been no reason to wait to convert to cash during the delay the two years prior. Mapsax ( talk) 23:34, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
If you look at the page for massachusetts turnpike (i 90 in mass) it has Interstate 90 as a secondary/ alternate name, with the interstate shield logo next to the logo for the turnpike, at the header for the top infobox.
I’m suggesting here that do the same for the Indiana Toll Road page for the infobox, it makes sense to have it like that, but I tried and it was undone, being told it’s redundant, but I don’t think it is, since it’s a secondary name, it should be made perfectly clear.
Lemme know what you think or if there’s any other cons to setting it as such Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 20:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- It is redundant to the Component highways listing in the infobox. There's a minor distinction between the Indiana Toll Road and the Massachusetts Turnpike. While I-90 is coextensive with both, I-80 overlaps a significant portion of the toll road in Indiana. That's why I-80 and I-90 are listed as component highways for the toll road. Imzadi 1979 → 20:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, i didn’t know that Jason Ingtonn ( talk) 22:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- C-Class Interstate Highway System articles
- Mid-importance Interstate Highway System articles
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