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GeoSwan entered a paragraph about al-Libi lying because of excessive interrogation methods... do we have a source for this? I haven't heard this claim with regard to Libi and I wondered if it were just a generic claim about torture leading to false information or if there were a specific connection to Libi here. Thanks -- csloat 04:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! -- csloat 03:12, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Do we have a source for this? RonCram 03:09, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Qaeda-Iraq Link U.S. Cited Is Tied to Coercion Claim http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/09/politics/09intel.html?hp&ex=1134190800&en=7e35bbb61b8d1d0c&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Someone posted a link to a blog that talked about an al Qaeda leader named al-Libi, who was assigned to be an assassin. But they got the wrong al-Libi, because the blogger got the wrong al-Libi. The blogger confused Abu Faraj al-Libbi with the subject of this article Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi.
Arabic names are complicated. I won't claim to fully understand them. But, one thing I can explain is what al-Libi means. It means the person named is from Libya. It is not (usually?) really part of their name. -- Geo Swan 09:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
was al-Libi the principal or only source for allegations of Iraq/al qaeda collaboration? according to newsweek, "A captured Qaeda commander who was a principal source for Bush administration claims that Osama bin Laden collaborated with Saddam Hussein's regime has changed his story...U.S. intelligence officials tell NEWSWEEK that al-Libi was a crucial source for one of the more dramatic assertions made by President George W. Bush and his top aides: that Iraq had provided training in "poisons and deadly gases" for Al Qaeda." [1] Anthonymendoza 23:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone put a {cleanup} tag on this article. Well when the {cleanup} tag expands it directs interested readers to go to the talk page to see the discussion around the tag.
So, who has the responsibility to start that discussion? It should really be the person who placed the tag. The rest of us aren't mind readers. If the person placing the tag doesn't offer an explanation of their concern, how can the rest of us know when their concern has been addressed.
So far as I am concerned maintenance wikitags that are left unexplained for an extended period of time are just cruft, that should be deleted on sight. I've explained this opinion in more detail here User:Geo Swan/opinions/responsible use of maintenance wikitags.
Cheers! -- Geo Swan 05:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Instead of having sections for two different books and quotes from them, these opinions should be integrated into the story. The only purpose of the ridiculously long Tenet quote seems to be to make the implication that it is just as likely that Libi was lying about al Qaeda cooperating with Saddam as that he was lying about recanting the story. But nobody (except maybe Tenet) believes that -- and there are multiple pieces of evidence that al-Libi was lying about the connection in the first place (as well as a complete lack of any evidence corroborating that story), and the general consensus of people close to the investigations (including Colin Powell, whose speech to the UN rested almost entirely on these allegations) is that the first story connecting Saddam to al Qaeda was a complete fabrication. The other book quote explains why it was fabricated - to provoke the US to invade Iraq. Instead of having separate sections for quotes from books, the substance of these quotes should be integrated into a narrative about the al-Libi interrogations. I'll try to work on this in the near future. csloat 06:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
A request for undeletion has been made of the only known image of this man: Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_June_19#19_June_2009. - Steve3849 talk 16:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
How reliable should we regard Evan Kohlmann and NEFA?
Recently he published the following:
Personally I am not comfortable with Kohlmann, or guys like Gordon Cucullu, and Thomas Josceleyn. It seems to me that Kohlmann is the most successful self-appointed independent terrorism experts. Sometimes they find sources that escaped the attention of the MSM. But they always put the most alarming spin on documents and events. Kohlmann's rivals, in the self-appointed independent terrorism industry, routinely do not offer the evidence or interpretation that suggests terrorists might represent less of a threat. Of course their careers depend on turning up the fear level.
In these documents Kohlmann suggests that
According to Kohlmann, al Qaeda sources now claim Al Libi joined Al Qaeda. Well, why take these Al Qaeda claims at face value? Some commentators used to point out, during the cold war, that the most extreme cold-war hawks in the "military-industrial complex", and the most extreme cold-war hawks in the old Soviet Union, both needed to have their bosses and the general public fear the other side. Some commentators used to speculate that the hawks on both side clandestinely cooperated, through leaks, or the sacrifice and betrayalof double agents, to keep the fear level at maximum.
If the consensus here is that Kohlmann's new interpretations merit coverage here I think it is important to remember his interpretations are just that. It would be a mistake to repeat any of his interpretations as an established fact.
Really, if Al Libi wanted to tell US interrogators false information in an attempt to trigger the USA to attack Saddam, would he really have waited until after they started torturing him? He could only guess they were going to torture him. The plan of waiting until after he was tortured would have failed if the USA had complied with its international obligations, and never used torture. Geo Swan ( talk) 14:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:40, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
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While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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GeoSwan entered a paragraph about al-Libi lying because of excessive interrogation methods... do we have a source for this? I haven't heard this claim with regard to Libi and I wondered if it were just a generic claim about torture leading to false information or if there were a specific connection to Libi here. Thanks -- csloat 04:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! -- csloat 03:12, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Do we have a source for this? RonCram 03:09, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Qaeda-Iraq Link U.S. Cited Is Tied to Coercion Claim http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/09/politics/09intel.html?hp&ex=1134190800&en=7e35bbb61b8d1d0c&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Someone posted a link to a blog that talked about an al Qaeda leader named al-Libi, who was assigned to be an assassin. But they got the wrong al-Libi, because the blogger got the wrong al-Libi. The blogger confused Abu Faraj al-Libbi with the subject of this article Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi.
Arabic names are complicated. I won't claim to fully understand them. But, one thing I can explain is what al-Libi means. It means the person named is from Libya. It is not (usually?) really part of their name. -- Geo Swan 09:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
was al-Libi the principal or only source for allegations of Iraq/al qaeda collaboration? according to newsweek, "A captured Qaeda commander who was a principal source for Bush administration claims that Osama bin Laden collaborated with Saddam Hussein's regime has changed his story...U.S. intelligence officials tell NEWSWEEK that al-Libi was a crucial source for one of the more dramatic assertions made by President George W. Bush and his top aides: that Iraq had provided training in "poisons and deadly gases" for Al Qaeda." [1] Anthonymendoza 23:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone put a {cleanup} tag on this article. Well when the {cleanup} tag expands it directs interested readers to go to the talk page to see the discussion around the tag.
So, who has the responsibility to start that discussion? It should really be the person who placed the tag. The rest of us aren't mind readers. If the person placing the tag doesn't offer an explanation of their concern, how can the rest of us know when their concern has been addressed.
So far as I am concerned maintenance wikitags that are left unexplained for an extended period of time are just cruft, that should be deleted on sight. I've explained this opinion in more detail here User:Geo Swan/opinions/responsible use of maintenance wikitags.
Cheers! -- Geo Swan 05:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Instead of having sections for two different books and quotes from them, these opinions should be integrated into the story. The only purpose of the ridiculously long Tenet quote seems to be to make the implication that it is just as likely that Libi was lying about al Qaeda cooperating with Saddam as that he was lying about recanting the story. But nobody (except maybe Tenet) believes that -- and there are multiple pieces of evidence that al-Libi was lying about the connection in the first place (as well as a complete lack of any evidence corroborating that story), and the general consensus of people close to the investigations (including Colin Powell, whose speech to the UN rested almost entirely on these allegations) is that the first story connecting Saddam to al Qaeda was a complete fabrication. The other book quote explains why it was fabricated - to provoke the US to invade Iraq. Instead of having separate sections for quotes from books, the substance of these quotes should be integrated into a narrative about the al-Libi interrogations. I'll try to work on this in the near future. csloat 06:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
A request for undeletion has been made of the only known image of this man: Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_June_19#19_June_2009. - Steve3849 talk 16:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
How reliable should we regard Evan Kohlmann and NEFA?
Recently he published the following:
Personally I am not comfortable with Kohlmann, or guys like Gordon Cucullu, and Thomas Josceleyn. It seems to me that Kohlmann is the most successful self-appointed independent terrorism experts. Sometimes they find sources that escaped the attention of the MSM. But they always put the most alarming spin on documents and events. Kohlmann's rivals, in the self-appointed independent terrorism industry, routinely do not offer the evidence or interpretation that suggests terrorists might represent less of a threat. Of course their careers depend on turning up the fear level.
In these documents Kohlmann suggests that
According to Kohlmann, al Qaeda sources now claim Al Libi joined Al Qaeda. Well, why take these Al Qaeda claims at face value? Some commentators used to point out, during the cold war, that the most extreme cold-war hawks in the "military-industrial complex", and the most extreme cold-war hawks in the old Soviet Union, both needed to have their bosses and the general public fear the other side. Some commentators used to speculate that the hawks on both side clandestinely cooperated, through leaks, or the sacrifice and betrayalof double agents, to keep the fear level at maximum.
If the consensus here is that Kohlmann's new interpretations merit coverage here I think it is important to remember his interpretations are just that. It would be a mistake to repeat any of his interpretations as an established fact.
Really, if Al Libi wanted to tell US interrogators false information in an attempt to trigger the USA to attack Saddam, would he really have waited until after they started torturing him? He could only guess they were going to torture him. The plan of waiting until after he was tortured would have failed if the USA had complied with its international obligations, and never used torture. Geo Swan ( talk) 14:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:49, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
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