This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. |
Is there any merit in including a link to a google image search result as an example of ISO 2852 fittings? Mitch Ames ( talk) 07:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I do not believe that
Google image search for ISO 2852 (under External links) adds any value to the article. Not all of images are relevant to the standard, and those that are offer no useful information; basically they are just pictures of pipes or connectors. I
deleted the link (replacing it the ISO catalog link), but DMahalko
put it back so that "non-engineers can see what this is without shelling out cash for the standard". However I disagree that the images tell us anything useful about the standard. If we put meaningful content in the article, readers will know what the standard is about (for free). I can't comment on the existing article content, because I don't have a copy of the standard, and I am not familiar with the topic. (DMahalko, perhaps if you cited whatever reference you have got as to the contents of the standard, that would be helpful.)
Can I have a third (fourth, etc) editor's opinion on this please. Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I think in stead of the google image search results you should pick and chose some of those examples (the good ones) and list those.
Hope that helps, 84.106.26.81 ( talk) 12:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
The link to the Google image results provides excessive relevant as well as non-relevant images. Since when has a physical item required a 'pool' of 96,000 images to 'choose' from? It's not direct, and it's not in any way professional. Please don't shy away from the task of finding a couple of suitable / representative images (as millions of other editors in as many articles in WP have done!) DS 78.149.179.100 ( talk) 13:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
DMahalko, if you can provide pictures that you have taken, go ahead! This will be the only solution to provide meaningful images. Don't let the reader sort out which images in a shotgun search are relevant and which are not. Irrespective that such a link would be forbidden by our guidelines anyway. Nageh ( talk) 22:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the search links, per WP:ELNO, item 9. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:01, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I question the usefulness of a statement that some companies sell products that use ISO 2852 but do not refer to the standard. Specific examples (not a google search) would be helpful, along with how we know that they do meet the standard. An even then, what's the point - does the standard mention these other names? Is there any other citable references that use those names a synonyms for the standard? Mitch Ames ( talk) 07:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
The earliest standard ... describes it as the "Triple Data Encryption Algorithm (TDEA)" ... FIPS PUB 46-3 [previously defined and referenced] ... also uses the terms "DES" and "Triple DES". ... NIST SP 800-67 (2004, 2008) [previously defined and referenced] ... also refers to "Triple DES (TDEA)". ISO/IEC 18033-3 (2005)[previously defined and referenced] uses "TDEA", but mentions that "The TDEA is commonly known as Triple DES (Data Encryption Standard)."
"Keying option n" is the term used by the standards (X9.52, FIPS PUB 46-3, SP 800-67, ISO/IEC 18033-3[all previously defined and referenced]) that define the TDEA. However, other terms are used in other standards and related recommendations, and general usage.
[...] 3TDEA, in NIST SP 800-57 [1] and SP 800-78-2 [2] Triple-length keys, in general usage [3] [4]
[...] 2TDEA, in NIST SP 800-57 [1] and SP 800-78-1 [2] Double-length keys, in general usage [3] [4]
DMahalko ( talk) 19:19, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I've added a {{ refimprove}} tag to the article. Independently of specific issues mentioned above ( #Value of google image search?, #Other names used in industry?) we need some more specific references (eg to clauses in the standard, or other documents that describe the standard) to ensure that the article accurately reflects the standard's contents. I've added the link to the ISO catalog, but I do not have a copy of the standard, so all I can verify is the title and that the synopsis from the catalog is generally consistent with our article contents. The primary author ( DMahalko) has stated explicitly in the revision history (when creating the first version) and on the talk page [1] that s/he does not have and has not seen the standard. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:56, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. |
Is there any merit in including a link to a google image search result as an example of ISO 2852 fittings? Mitch Ames ( talk) 07:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I do not believe that
Google image search for ISO 2852 (under External links) adds any value to the article. Not all of images are relevant to the standard, and those that are offer no useful information; basically they are just pictures of pipes or connectors. I
deleted the link (replacing it the ISO catalog link), but DMahalko
put it back so that "non-engineers can see what this is without shelling out cash for the standard". However I disagree that the images tell us anything useful about the standard. If we put meaningful content in the article, readers will know what the standard is about (for free). I can't comment on the existing article content, because I don't have a copy of the standard, and I am not familiar with the topic. (DMahalko, perhaps if you cited whatever reference you have got as to the contents of the standard, that would be helpful.)
Can I have a third (fourth, etc) editor's opinion on this please. Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I think in stead of the google image search results you should pick and chose some of those examples (the good ones) and list those.
Hope that helps, 84.106.26.81 ( talk) 12:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
The link to the Google image results provides excessive relevant as well as non-relevant images. Since when has a physical item required a 'pool' of 96,000 images to 'choose' from? It's not direct, and it's not in any way professional. Please don't shy away from the task of finding a couple of suitable / representative images (as millions of other editors in as many articles in WP have done!) DS 78.149.179.100 ( talk) 13:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
DMahalko, if you can provide pictures that you have taken, go ahead! This will be the only solution to provide meaningful images. Don't let the reader sort out which images in a shotgun search are relevant and which are not. Irrespective that such a link would be forbidden by our guidelines anyway. Nageh ( talk) 22:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the search links, per WP:ELNO, item 9. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:01, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I question the usefulness of a statement that some companies sell products that use ISO 2852 but do not refer to the standard. Specific examples (not a google search) would be helpful, along with how we know that they do meet the standard. An even then, what's the point - does the standard mention these other names? Is there any other citable references that use those names a synonyms for the standard? Mitch Ames ( talk) 07:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
The earliest standard ... describes it as the "Triple Data Encryption Algorithm (TDEA)" ... FIPS PUB 46-3 [previously defined and referenced] ... also uses the terms "DES" and "Triple DES". ... NIST SP 800-67 (2004, 2008) [previously defined and referenced] ... also refers to "Triple DES (TDEA)". ISO/IEC 18033-3 (2005)[previously defined and referenced] uses "TDEA", but mentions that "The TDEA is commonly known as Triple DES (Data Encryption Standard)."
"Keying option n" is the term used by the standards (X9.52, FIPS PUB 46-3, SP 800-67, ISO/IEC 18033-3[all previously defined and referenced]) that define the TDEA. However, other terms are used in other standards and related recommendations, and general usage.
[...] 3TDEA, in NIST SP 800-57 [1] and SP 800-78-2 [2] Triple-length keys, in general usage [3] [4]
[...] 2TDEA, in NIST SP 800-57 [1] and SP 800-78-1 [2] Double-length keys, in general usage [3] [4]
DMahalko ( talk) 19:19, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I've added a {{ refimprove}} tag to the article. Independently of specific issues mentioned above ( #Value of google image search?, #Other names used in industry?) we need some more specific references (eg to clauses in the standard, or other documents that describe the standard) to ensure that the article accurately reflects the standard's contents. I've added the link to the ISO catalog, but I do not have a copy of the standard, so all I can verify is the title and that the synopsis from the catalog is generally consistent with our article contents. The primary author ( DMahalko) has stated explicitly in the revision history (when creating the first version) and on the talk page [1] that s/he does not have and has not seen the standard. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:56, 1 January 2012 (UTC)