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I would recommend raising the importance-level of this article because of the importance of the topic and the longstanding online english-language coverage by a qualified historian. It is reputed to have both a very wide readership and considerable political influence. User:Harnad ( talk) 12:38, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
New reasons for upgrading the importance of Hungarian Spectrum:
Hungarian Spectrum should not be deleted.
Anonymous user 84.224.163.158 recommends speedy deletion of the WP page for Hungarian Spectrum (a page I created in April 2019) for the following 3 reasons:
(1) "Harnad is a friend of the author of HS".
My name is Stevan Harnad. The editor and principal author of HS ( Hungarian Spectrum) is Professor Eva Balogh. I have never met Professor Balogh personally. I have been a faithful subscriber and reader of Hungarian Spectrum since 2011. Occasionally I (like many other subscribers) exchange public comments with Professor Balogh (and one another) on HS. I am indeed one of the many admirers of Professor Balogh's work. But alas I don't qualify to call myself a friend.
(2) "They are political activists"
I am indeed an activist, for two causes: (i) Open Access to peer-reviewed scientific and scholarly articles online and (ii) Animal Rights.
I am also Hungarian-born and (like many, many others) deeply concerned about the decline of democracy in Hungary under the current Hungarian government. I did resign the Hungarian Academy of Sciences in 2015 to protest Hungary's decline from democracy, but I would say that that was passivism rather than activism. Others who resigned with me were the Nobel Laureate Torsten Wiesel and Dan Dennett, likewise not political activists.
Professor Balogh is a historian and a blogger/journalist. She is certainly very active, publishing an article a day in Hungarian Spectrum, seven days a week, since 2007. And she is highly critical of the current Hungarian government. I am not sure whether that makes her a "political activist."
(3) "see Harnad's previous edits: selfpromotion and politics"
Editing WP non-anonymously, as I have done since 2005, sometimes leads to concerns about self-promotion, but when these have arisen in my case they have been resolved through discussion.
It may be worth taking into considration that anonymous user 84.224.163.158 recommended deleting the WP entry for Hungarian Spectrum two days after the Hungarian government suspended parliamentary rule and accorded the prime minister the power to govern by decree indefinitely, including imprisoning journalists for five years if they publish anything he judges to be scaremongering -- and one day after the international press expressed its reaction, reviewed by Professor Balogh in Hungarian Spectrum. Critics in Hungary can now be jailed; journalists outside Hungary can only be trolled, and their work nominated for deletion from WP.
I created the entry for Hungarian Spectrum almost exactly a year ago, when George Soros, Hungarian-born financier, philanthropist and creator of a worldwide network of Open Society Foundations in support of democracy and human rights, was awarded the Ridenhour Prize for Courage in April 2019 [1]. He contributed the full proceeds of the prize to Hungarian Spectrum. This week Soros also contributed one million dollars to Budapest, the capital of Hungary, to combat Covid-19.
.
But most of my own WP contributions have been on the Symbol Grounding Problem, Categorical Perception and Self-archiving...
(I will personally be very interested to see how WP resolves this timely deletion request.) -- User:Harnad ( talk) 23:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
== Discussion transferred from User_talk:Boing!_said_Zebedee ==
Reply to: User: 84.224.163.158:
(1) You queried the Hungarian Spectrum entry for notability. The George Soros quote (along with all the other references) provides that.
(2) In addition, the quote provides the context for one of the principle contributions of Hungarian Spectrum, which is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(3) That the quote "vilifies" (rather than states the truth) about Viktor Orban, is a POV: yours.
(4) George Soros is just being quoted, verbatim, and what he states is of course his POV.
(5) But a quote in WP that correctly states verbatim the (relevant) POV of a named, cited, notable and relevant person is not itself a POV.
(6) It is an objective fact that George Soros said what he said; and he said it in connection with Hungarian Spectrum and about one of the principle contributions of Hungarian Spectrum, which is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(7) Hence the quote is relevant, and its length is not disproprtionate. If you wish to make that a question for WP mediation and adjudication, that's fine, but please stop deleting the quote (or asking administrators to do it).
(8) I will skip your ad hominem remarks. My identity is open; you are anonymous. The full WP history is there to see.
(9) I have no idea whether you have anything to do with the Hungarian government (nor whether you are the sock pocket of someone I have interacted with before).
(10) I do have a good idea of your POV; but that's ok! In the Critique section it can be assessed by WP readers on its own merits.
(11) The body of the entry for Hungarian Spectrum is verified and objective, as I was careful to make it when I wrote it. It does not express a POV. (I have one, but it is not expressed in the entry.)
(12) The body of the entry for Hungarian Spectrum describes a longstanding, much-cited, English-Language blog, one of whose principle contributions is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(13) Yes, I too have made an appeal to a WP administrator. But not to delete something. To adjudicate the deletions from the entry for Hungarian Spectrum.
References
@ Harnad: The third of the article about
George Soros, Hungarian-born financier, philanthropist and creator of a worldwide network of Open Society Foundations in support of democracy and human rights, was awarded the Ridenhour Prize for Courage in April 2019...
is not really about the Hungarian Spectrum. It’s undue prominence (a third of the article!) for George Soros winning a prize. Perhaps the relevant part of his quote could be (very briefly) summarized, but the entire bit is not in WP:PROPORTION. See my summarization.
Also keep in mind WP:ONUS. Just because someone verifiably said something does not mean that it should be included in a WP article. — MarkH21 talk 21:54, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus. This has already had two listing periods, and there's little agreement about whether the page shpjld be about the blog or the author. Hence for now we retain the status quo. — Amakuru ( talk) 17:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Hungarian Spectrum → Eva Balogh – As discussed in the AfD, this article is largely focused on Eva Balogh rather than the blog itself and all of the potential notability-indicating sources actually talk about Balogh in more detail than the blog itself. The blog-specific details can be placed in a "Hungarian Spectrum" section in the Eva Balogh article. — MarkH21 talk 19:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject) and subject-specific notability guidelines, the only applicable one being WP:WEBCRIT (also based entirely on being
the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itselfor having
won a well-known and independent award). These are completely different from impact factor and citation impact. — MarkH21 talk 23:15, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
I would like to know 176.77.136.98's reasoning for repeatedly blanking this section. Azure94 ( talk) 15:32, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
I would like to know since when an eulogy is enyclopedic content? "may her legacy be carried on" - seriously? In a lexicon?-- 176.77.136.98 ( talk) 16:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
176.77.136.98 just inserted some text about people being "relieved" that she died. The Hungarian source he used doesn't say that at all. I think it's beyond pale how much trolling from this vandal is being allowed on this website. Azure94 ( talk) 20:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
The source regarding the Soros donation includes a quote of him describing the organization, but he never states that is the reason why he made the donation. Making that assumption from him describing the organization is original research. It is also original research to modify the original quote to include languages and imply that the language difference is key to Soros' description, which is not supported by the source. Pais arepa 19:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hungarian Spectrum article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 5 April 2020. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I would recommend raising the importance-level of this article because of the importance of the topic and the longstanding online english-language coverage by a qualified historian. It is reputed to have both a very wide readership and considerable political influence. User:Harnad ( talk) 12:38, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
New reasons for upgrading the importance of Hungarian Spectrum:
Hungarian Spectrum should not be deleted.
Anonymous user 84.224.163.158 recommends speedy deletion of the WP page for Hungarian Spectrum (a page I created in April 2019) for the following 3 reasons:
(1) "Harnad is a friend of the author of HS".
My name is Stevan Harnad. The editor and principal author of HS ( Hungarian Spectrum) is Professor Eva Balogh. I have never met Professor Balogh personally. I have been a faithful subscriber and reader of Hungarian Spectrum since 2011. Occasionally I (like many other subscribers) exchange public comments with Professor Balogh (and one another) on HS. I am indeed one of the many admirers of Professor Balogh's work. But alas I don't qualify to call myself a friend.
(2) "They are political activists"
I am indeed an activist, for two causes: (i) Open Access to peer-reviewed scientific and scholarly articles online and (ii) Animal Rights.
I am also Hungarian-born and (like many, many others) deeply concerned about the decline of democracy in Hungary under the current Hungarian government. I did resign the Hungarian Academy of Sciences in 2015 to protest Hungary's decline from democracy, but I would say that that was passivism rather than activism. Others who resigned with me were the Nobel Laureate Torsten Wiesel and Dan Dennett, likewise not political activists.
Professor Balogh is a historian and a blogger/journalist. She is certainly very active, publishing an article a day in Hungarian Spectrum, seven days a week, since 2007. And she is highly critical of the current Hungarian government. I am not sure whether that makes her a "political activist."
(3) "see Harnad's previous edits: selfpromotion and politics"
Editing WP non-anonymously, as I have done since 2005, sometimes leads to concerns about self-promotion, but when these have arisen in my case they have been resolved through discussion.
It may be worth taking into considration that anonymous user 84.224.163.158 recommended deleting the WP entry for Hungarian Spectrum two days after the Hungarian government suspended parliamentary rule and accorded the prime minister the power to govern by decree indefinitely, including imprisoning journalists for five years if they publish anything he judges to be scaremongering -- and one day after the international press expressed its reaction, reviewed by Professor Balogh in Hungarian Spectrum. Critics in Hungary can now be jailed; journalists outside Hungary can only be trolled, and their work nominated for deletion from WP.
I created the entry for Hungarian Spectrum almost exactly a year ago, when George Soros, Hungarian-born financier, philanthropist and creator of a worldwide network of Open Society Foundations in support of democracy and human rights, was awarded the Ridenhour Prize for Courage in April 2019 [1]. He contributed the full proceeds of the prize to Hungarian Spectrum. This week Soros also contributed one million dollars to Budapest, the capital of Hungary, to combat Covid-19.
.
But most of my own WP contributions have been on the Symbol Grounding Problem, Categorical Perception and Self-archiving...
(I will personally be very interested to see how WP resolves this timely deletion request.) -- User:Harnad ( talk) 23:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
== Discussion transferred from User_talk:Boing!_said_Zebedee ==
Reply to: User: 84.224.163.158:
(1) You queried the Hungarian Spectrum entry for notability. The George Soros quote (along with all the other references) provides that.
(2) In addition, the quote provides the context for one of the principle contributions of Hungarian Spectrum, which is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(3) That the quote "vilifies" (rather than states the truth) about Viktor Orban, is a POV: yours.
(4) George Soros is just being quoted, verbatim, and what he states is of course his POV.
(5) But a quote in WP that correctly states verbatim the (relevant) POV of a named, cited, notable and relevant person is not itself a POV.
(6) It is an objective fact that George Soros said what he said; and he said it in connection with Hungarian Spectrum and about one of the principle contributions of Hungarian Spectrum, which is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(7) Hence the quote is relevant, and its length is not disproprtionate. If you wish to make that a question for WP mediation and adjudication, that's fine, but please stop deleting the quote (or asking administrators to do it).
(8) I will skip your ad hominem remarks. My identity is open; you are anonymous. The full WP history is there to see.
(9) I have no idea whether you have anything to do with the Hungarian government (nor whether you are the sock pocket of someone I have interacted with before).
(10) I do have a good idea of your POV; but that's ok! In the Critique section it can be assessed by WP readers on its own merits.
(11) The body of the entry for Hungarian Spectrum is verified and objective, as I was careful to make it when I wrote it. It does not express a POV. (I have one, but it is not expressed in the entry.)
(12) The body of the entry for Hungarian Spectrum describes a longstanding, much-cited, English-Language blog, one of whose principle contributions is an English-language critique of the government of Viktor Orban and the course of democracy in Hungary under his government.
(13) Yes, I too have made an appeal to a WP administrator. But not to delete something. To adjudicate the deletions from the entry for Hungarian Spectrum.
References
@ Harnad: The third of the article about
George Soros, Hungarian-born financier, philanthropist and creator of a worldwide network of Open Society Foundations in support of democracy and human rights, was awarded the Ridenhour Prize for Courage in April 2019...
is not really about the Hungarian Spectrum. It’s undue prominence (a third of the article!) for George Soros winning a prize. Perhaps the relevant part of his quote could be (very briefly) summarized, but the entire bit is not in WP:PROPORTION. See my summarization.
Also keep in mind WP:ONUS. Just because someone verifiably said something does not mean that it should be included in a WP article. — MarkH21 talk 21:54, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus. This has already had two listing periods, and there's little agreement about whether the page shpjld be about the blog or the author. Hence for now we retain the status quo. — Amakuru ( talk) 17:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Hungarian Spectrum → Eva Balogh – As discussed in the AfD, this article is largely focused on Eva Balogh rather than the blog itself and all of the potential notability-indicating sources actually talk about Balogh in more detail than the blog itself. The blog-specific details can be placed in a "Hungarian Spectrum" section in the Eva Balogh article. — MarkH21 talk 19:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject) and subject-specific notability guidelines, the only applicable one being WP:WEBCRIT (also based entirely on being
the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itselfor having
won a well-known and independent award). These are completely different from impact factor and citation impact. — MarkH21 talk 23:15, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
I would like to know 176.77.136.98's reasoning for repeatedly blanking this section. Azure94 ( talk) 15:32, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
I would like to know since when an eulogy is enyclopedic content? "may her legacy be carried on" - seriously? In a lexicon?-- 176.77.136.98 ( talk) 16:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
176.77.136.98 just inserted some text about people being "relieved" that she died. The Hungarian source he used doesn't say that at all. I think it's beyond pale how much trolling from this vandal is being allowed on this website. Azure94 ( talk) 20:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
The source regarding the Soros donation includes a quote of him describing the organization, but he never states that is the reason why he made the donation. Making that assumption from him describing the organization is original research. It is also original research to modify the original quote to include languages and imply that the language difference is key to Soros' description, which is not supported by the source. Pais arepa 19:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)