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Following an edit war, the issues raised on this page were referred to the Mediation Cabal.
In the mediation, it was determined that comments that serve only as a record of misperception and rancor ought to be removed – some sections of this page have been edited and some removed in order to accomplish this. In creating the edited version, I tried to retain the substance of the discussion while removing snark, rancor, redundancy, and extraneous digressions. Edited sections are marked with a (*). The version prior to this edit may be found
here. I hope all parties find my edit acceptable.
--
plover 14:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Rohirok - you are a secular humanist, right? That's fine, but if your organisation is a member of the IHEU then I suggest you clarify what their position is on the Amsterdam Declaration 2002, which was not just "some leaders" endorsement but the unanimous endorsement of the General Assembly of the IHEU on behalf of all member organisations. -- Couttsie 03:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
"True, the resolution as written always capitalizes the word, and doesn't use an adjective, but this in no way implies that such a convention should be binding on all Humanists and Humanist organizations."
I have changed the text of my contributions to make it clear that such usage is not compulsory for member organisations or even individual IHEU members. However, it is clearly the preference of the IHEU to capitalise these words. I have written to the IHEU and they can decide - not you and not me. -- Couttsie 05:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
The header at the IHEU website says:
The first line of the page (which is reproduced in the Wikipedia article with an added 'Humanist') says:
What are we supposed to make of your demands to adhere to a convention in writing about humanism – or even the IHEU itself – when that convention is not even followed on their own website?
--
Plover 12:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I see no reason to doubt that the IHEU refers to the particular form of humanism it promotes as 'Humanism' with a capital H, and that it is thus appropriate usage when referring explicitly to the standpoint of the IHEU, but I see no evidence (and, in fact, have the above quotes as evidence to the contrary) that the IHEU as an organization – let alone humanists in general – thinks that means one should run around sticking a capital H on the word every time its used.
I suspect the majority of people in the world who might call themselves humanists have never heard of the IHEU. This is not to say that the organization is unimportant, just that the IHEU doesn't currently affect how most people perceive the word humanist very much. Of course, the IHEU should have its perspective described accurately on Wikipedia, but Wikipedia is not a place for evangelising. If it ever becomes true that most people who call themselves humanists – not just people who belong to IHEU or other humanist organizations, but anyone who simply thinks of themselves as humanist – adopts the IHEU definition, then it might be reasonable to treat the IHEU stance as the primary definition. Until then, 'humanism' is a general term with multiple meanings, 'Humanism' is one specific, codified form of humanism, and any attempt to supplant humanism with Humanism is evangelising, rather than creating a neutral description of how most people actually use the term humanism.
The purpose of an encyclopedia is to provide neutral, descriptive articles, not push a certain point of view. Have you read the
guidelines for contributing on Wikipedia? (Especially
What_Wikipedia_is_not?) Why do you think your actions here fit these guidelines? If you want more people to know about the IHEU, that's great – it's just that Wikipedia is not that kind of platform. Of course, any effort you put into making sure that the information about IHEU is accurate is more than welcome.
--
Plover 02:32, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, now take another look at the IHEU's front page. Note the following changes:
I received an email from Jeremy Webbs, who maintains the IHEU website. I like what he has to say on the matter:
"Capitalization is not mandatory. (There is no compulsion in Humanism.) It is recommended usage and the normal usage within IHEU"
Regarding Rohirok's attempt to play down capilization, by referring to "some leader's of international Humanism", I aksed Jeremy Webbs to clarify who these leaders are. Hrere's his response:
"Harold Blackham (102 and still going strong as of this writing) was a founder of the BHA and IHEU. Harry Stopes-Roe was and is a leading light in the movement. Corliss Lamont was a leading American Humanist. Levi Fragell is a former Secretary General of the Norwegian Humanist Association and former president of IHEU. Rob Tielman is a former president of IHEU."
Hmm. a founder of the BHA and IHEU, and two former Presidents of the IHEU.
Anyway, I'm happy to include something along the lines of Jeremy Webb's comment (in the Humanist identity section) to put an end to the debate.
Jeremy also added :
"Humanism embraces a number of sub-varieties: secular Humanism, scientific Humanism, and religious Humanism. It has been our practice wherever possible to capitalise the words Humanist and Humanism. This is consistent with common usage for other life stances and philosophies such as Christian, Christianity, Muslim, Islam, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhism etc, when these words are used as nouns. There is however some variation possible when the words are used adjectivally, e.g. "the humanist tradition", "christian ethics". In French it is notable that all such words when used adjectivally are invariably lower case."
This raises a valid point, that Humanism is not alone in capitalizing the first letter. Yet, like the traditional theistic religions, humanist can be written as humanist when used adjectively. -- Couttsie 23:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
where did the figure in " The IHEU represents the views of roughly four million Humanists " come from? 2ct7 19:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Done. I've also contacted the IHEU for any other online references to the number of people who are members (either individually, or through a member organisation). -- Couttsie 01:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! 2ct7 01:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
A call for volunteers. The IHEU adminstrator has just added a bunch of very useful information linked to the IHEU About page. I've fixed up the Presidents/Chairman section, and added the Awards. I've also linked existing Wikipedia articles to this people on this page, and reverse linked to this page from those existing Wikipedia people articles.
One page that I haven't had time to tackle just yet is the IHEU Biographies page. This is a useful starting point for anyone wanting to write biography articles on notable IHEU and Humanist personalities. -- Couttsie 06:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I quote from the "Strategy" section:
"work closely with our many member organisations"
I don't think the use of the word "our" is the right perspective for an encyclopedic article.
'Humanism' (as a stand-alone term) is capitalized throughout this article. I don't think there is any need to capitalize it except when it is part of the name of an organization. Joja lozzo 03:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
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This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Following an edit war, the issues raised on this page were referred to the Mediation Cabal.
In the mediation, it was determined that comments that serve only as a record of misperception and rancor ought to be removed – some sections of this page have been edited and some removed in order to accomplish this. In creating the edited version, I tried to retain the substance of the discussion while removing snark, rancor, redundancy, and extraneous digressions. Edited sections are marked with a (*). The version prior to this edit may be found
here. I hope all parties find my edit acceptable.
--
plover 14:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Rohirok - you are a secular humanist, right? That's fine, but if your organisation is a member of the IHEU then I suggest you clarify what their position is on the Amsterdam Declaration 2002, which was not just "some leaders" endorsement but the unanimous endorsement of the General Assembly of the IHEU on behalf of all member organisations. -- Couttsie 03:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
"True, the resolution as written always capitalizes the word, and doesn't use an adjective, but this in no way implies that such a convention should be binding on all Humanists and Humanist organizations."
I have changed the text of my contributions to make it clear that such usage is not compulsory for member organisations or even individual IHEU members. However, it is clearly the preference of the IHEU to capitalise these words. I have written to the IHEU and they can decide - not you and not me. -- Couttsie 05:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
The header at the IHEU website says:
The first line of the page (which is reproduced in the Wikipedia article with an added 'Humanist') says:
What are we supposed to make of your demands to adhere to a convention in writing about humanism – or even the IHEU itself – when that convention is not even followed on their own website?
--
Plover 12:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I see no reason to doubt that the IHEU refers to the particular form of humanism it promotes as 'Humanism' with a capital H, and that it is thus appropriate usage when referring explicitly to the standpoint of the IHEU, but I see no evidence (and, in fact, have the above quotes as evidence to the contrary) that the IHEU as an organization – let alone humanists in general – thinks that means one should run around sticking a capital H on the word every time its used.
I suspect the majority of people in the world who might call themselves humanists have never heard of the IHEU. This is not to say that the organization is unimportant, just that the IHEU doesn't currently affect how most people perceive the word humanist very much. Of course, the IHEU should have its perspective described accurately on Wikipedia, but Wikipedia is not a place for evangelising. If it ever becomes true that most people who call themselves humanists – not just people who belong to IHEU or other humanist organizations, but anyone who simply thinks of themselves as humanist – adopts the IHEU definition, then it might be reasonable to treat the IHEU stance as the primary definition. Until then, 'humanism' is a general term with multiple meanings, 'Humanism' is one specific, codified form of humanism, and any attempt to supplant humanism with Humanism is evangelising, rather than creating a neutral description of how most people actually use the term humanism.
The purpose of an encyclopedia is to provide neutral, descriptive articles, not push a certain point of view. Have you read the
guidelines for contributing on Wikipedia? (Especially
What_Wikipedia_is_not?) Why do you think your actions here fit these guidelines? If you want more people to know about the IHEU, that's great – it's just that Wikipedia is not that kind of platform. Of course, any effort you put into making sure that the information about IHEU is accurate is more than welcome.
--
Plover 02:32, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, now take another look at the IHEU's front page. Note the following changes:
I received an email from Jeremy Webbs, who maintains the IHEU website. I like what he has to say on the matter:
"Capitalization is not mandatory. (There is no compulsion in Humanism.) It is recommended usage and the normal usage within IHEU"
Regarding Rohirok's attempt to play down capilization, by referring to "some leader's of international Humanism", I aksed Jeremy Webbs to clarify who these leaders are. Hrere's his response:
"Harold Blackham (102 and still going strong as of this writing) was a founder of the BHA and IHEU. Harry Stopes-Roe was and is a leading light in the movement. Corliss Lamont was a leading American Humanist. Levi Fragell is a former Secretary General of the Norwegian Humanist Association and former president of IHEU. Rob Tielman is a former president of IHEU."
Hmm. a founder of the BHA and IHEU, and two former Presidents of the IHEU.
Anyway, I'm happy to include something along the lines of Jeremy Webb's comment (in the Humanist identity section) to put an end to the debate.
Jeremy also added :
"Humanism embraces a number of sub-varieties: secular Humanism, scientific Humanism, and religious Humanism. It has been our practice wherever possible to capitalise the words Humanist and Humanism. This is consistent with common usage for other life stances and philosophies such as Christian, Christianity, Muslim, Islam, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhism etc, when these words are used as nouns. There is however some variation possible when the words are used adjectivally, e.g. "the humanist tradition", "christian ethics". In French it is notable that all such words when used adjectivally are invariably lower case."
This raises a valid point, that Humanism is not alone in capitalizing the first letter. Yet, like the traditional theistic religions, humanist can be written as humanist when used adjectively. -- Couttsie 23:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
where did the figure in " The IHEU represents the views of roughly four million Humanists " come from? 2ct7 19:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Done. I've also contacted the IHEU for any other online references to the number of people who are members (either individually, or through a member organisation). -- Couttsie 01:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! 2ct7 01:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
A call for volunteers. The IHEU adminstrator has just added a bunch of very useful information linked to the IHEU About page. I've fixed up the Presidents/Chairman section, and added the Awards. I've also linked existing Wikipedia articles to this people on this page, and reverse linked to this page from those existing Wikipedia people articles.
One page that I haven't had time to tackle just yet is the IHEU Biographies page. This is a useful starting point for anyone wanting to write biography articles on notable IHEU and Humanist personalities. -- Couttsie 06:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I quote from the "Strategy" section:
"work closely with our many member organisations"
I don't think the use of the word "our" is the right perspective for an encyclopedic article.
'Humanism' (as a stand-alone term) is capitalized throughout this article. I don't think there is any need to capitalize it except when it is part of the name of an organization. Joja lozzo 03:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
International Humanist and Ethical Union. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:42, 11 January 2016 (UTC)