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Ok, so I didn't violate the 3RR, but I will start a discussion here about the removal of this section. The Cato Article which originally appeared in the USA Today magazine looks at multiple incidents and sources involving corruption surrounding Chavez. I do not believe that there are any reasons why this should be removed. The info was properly attributed and reliably sourced.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 01:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
As to "A libertarian think tank—especially one associated with the Kochs—isn't likely to be impartial on this topic", please remember to apply the same logic when liberal think tank CEPR/Weisbrot are used to cite content in this article. Every single commentary about CATO in this section also applies to CEPR/Venezuelanalysis, yet they are frequently cited in Venezuela articles. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:31, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
Here is the article from USA Today:
Author: Coronel, Gustavo
Agency: USA Today
Volume: 136
Issue: 2754
Pages: 67-69
Date: March 2008
That's the original article, I believe.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 04:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
So what have we concluded? Just want to close this discussion or continue if needed.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 03:13, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I see this section has been removed and restored several times, so it seems like it needs a discussion. I'm somewhat torn. On the one hand, Salazar's claim was widely reported; on the other hand, his claim seems to be a fringe theory we're giving a section to, and WP:FRINGE makes it very clear we have to avoid giving undue weight to anything not widely-accepted, which Salazar's claim doesn't seem to be. Thoughts? Mbinebri talk ← 15:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
I read an article about this from NBC. Thanks for this edit, since I was about to make an edit about this.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 17:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I just wanted to explain my previous edits on the section. Since the main article is linked and the "Policy overview" section still needed some clean up, I was removing excess information that was either controversial or out dated/controversial. This included the literacy information and information from Chavez supporter, Mark Weisbrot.
The literacy data is controversial since the changes can supposedly be explained by the deaths of elderly citizens that were illiterate. For example from 1980-2009, the literacy rate among those aged 15-24 years increased only 5.4% while 65 years and older increased 26.6%! This can be attributed to better education practices that those who are recently over 65 years old experienced compared to the older groups of the population that had died that were illiterate due to poor education practices at the time of their education (say 70 years prior to their death).
For the Weisbrot data, it is outdated/confusing to the reader because it states "current economic expansion" when words before it, it says "in 2009". It is also funny because at the time, Venezuela's economy was experiencing a recession and he was saying it was expanding.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 16:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Despite your claims, Zia, there is conflict regarding the election between these sources, and WP:V says contrasting accounts from reliable sources both should be included. It's right there in the intro for the policy. Your source says there was low interest in the election; Riothero's sources states there was high interest and cites a 54 to 64 increase in the turnout, which you incorrectly summarize as a small increase. The sources don't mesh. Neutrality requires including both sides. Mbinebri talk ← 23:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
What I see here are excuses and/or missing knowledge despite you're editing WP for about 2 years by now. Don't have the time and nerve for this but real quick, this edit was just today. Re "however": See WP:EDITORIALIZING; or even better, read the whole wp:MOS including MOS:WTW. TMCk ( talk) 00:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
The website www.venezuelanalysis.com does not fit the criteria for a reliable source listed in WP:RS, yet it is cited numerous times. -- 108.45.56.173 ( talk) 13:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Concur with ZiaLater and IP 108, Gabriel Yuji doesn't appear to understand WP:RS, and for TFD, samples where venanalysis is used incorrectly:
Those are only a few samples-- by no means an exhaustive look at the problems in this article. Over the years, I've supplied multiple reliable sources that have been excluded here, and the POV tag has been removed multiple times without correction of the problems. There are hundreds of good, independent sources on Chavez, this article doesn't use them, and this article is ridiculously too long, going off-topic to construct a biased image of Chavez. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:31, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I have made some recent edits due to a previous discussion that was made above in order to clean the article up and update it. Some edits were not perfect and reversions made it more complicated to correct edits but I am providing an explanation to those who may not be happy with my edits. If we were to place percentages in the lede of this article, then it would leave the lede open to other percentages (like the over 1000% increase of kidnappings and such) and we would be in the same place again with a messy article. Please discuss below if there are any other concerns and please, no more accusations (I am not " President Bush" by the way).-- ZiaLater ( talk) 22:53, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
So there is an argument now that Maduro is responsible for the increase of poverty in Venezuela in 2013. He would have had to make drastic changes in order for this to happen in under a year, but he didn't (see first sentence of Economic policy of the Nicolás Maduro government). Maduro was elected president over one-third of the way through the year of 2013 (late April 2013) while economic policies in place from his predecessor, Chávez, had been in place for over a decade before his election into office. So again, why would someone who was president for mere months be attributed to an increase of poverty when he hadn't even (and arguably still hasn't) made any significant changes in Venezuela's economic policy?-- ZiaLater ( talk) 14:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
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Hello all. I think a warning sign should be placed at top of the article, because it seems not many users are working on the article anymore. Instead it has been for pure pov rewritten (examples: [5] [6] [7] and if it has the right direction it is possible to pack into the article even the most obvious fakes. I just removed from the article: "Chavez was known to bathe in crude oil as a show of Venezualen might. The "black baths" were required viewing for every Venezuelan citizen and was a weekly program on the Al Jazeera network. Sadly many experts believe that the frequent bathing in crude oil led to the health problems which would ultimately lead to the dictators timely death" (yes this was seriously supported in the article and not just for an hour: [8]. Did just jump over the article but I think it is not unlikely quite some of such type of stuff is in there now. -- 78.51.177.19 ( talk) 02:53, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
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We currently have the articles Bolivarian propaganda, Hugo Chávez's cult of personality and Public image of Hugo Chávez. Which is the difference of scope between them? Wouldn't it be a better idea to merge them into a single article? Cambalachero ( talk) 14:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
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"proved to be unsustainable, with Venezuela's economy faltering while poverty,[7][15][27] inflation[28] and shortages in Venezuela increased."
Source number 7 is cited incorrectly in this case as the information within the source shows how poverty is decreasing. I would label it as verifcation failed, but I'm too unfamiliar with the interface being new so if anyone is out there please remove the citing of [7] in this case. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BD8D:1230:B5DA:2367:7222:AA ( talk) 07:57, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
The Cato Institute isn't devoted to any serious sociological research, it's devoted to pumping out far right propaganda. It's founded and funded by the Kochs in order to normalize Austrian economics, along with other unworkable loony toons ideas.
Using the Cato Institute as a source is literally worse than just guessing and making something up. You might as well consider Infowars a reputable source. Is Venezuela populated by space lizards? Let's see what Wikipedia has to say. Welp, looks like it is! If a major participant in the writing of this relies on the sort of fractally wrong worldview peddled by Cato, then this whole article is likely rotten to the foundation. You're gonna need to uproot the whole thing and check for BS. You've got a slimy little ancap trying to insert their propaganda into a country's article.
72.181.99.6 ( talk) 14:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
In the "political influences" section, a certain editor with anti-Chavez and pro-Israel opinions by the name of DarkKing Rayleigh, is attempting to present Chavez as some kind of "communist-fascist" boogeyman by association, who the world needed saving from.
Specifically, the insinuation that Norberto Ceresole who was an influence on Chavez was some kind of "fascist" is complete disinformation and does not belong in the article. Ceresole was a leader of the paramilitary wing of the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Argentina) and during the dictatorship of Jorge Rafael Videla was a left-Peronist in exile. In no way can he be considered a fascist. Because of his pro-Arab and especially pro-Palestinian views, Cersole aligned himself with Roger Garaudy (a fellow communist) in criticising the alleged Israeli use of the Holocaust to promote anti-Palestinian policies. This doesn't make him a neo-fascist, both he and Garaudy are lifelong Marxists. Claíomh Solais ( talk) 22:20, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 13:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
In the "Economic and social policy" section:
"Chávez created the Bolivarian Missions, aimed at providing public services to improve economic, cultural, and social conditions so he could maintain political power. According to Corrales and Penfold, 'aid was disbursed to some of the poor, and more gravely, in a way that ended up helping the president and his allies and cronies more than anyone else'."
This excerpt sounds extremely anti-government biased and, in my humble view, violates Wikipedia's laws on neutrality. There is no decisive source stating that Chávez created the Bolivarian Missions to "maintain political power". I humbly propose that we remove both the aforementioned piece of text and the Corrales and Penfold quote entirely to avoid breaking neutrality and tell the facts from a neutral point of view. HandIsNotNookls ( talk) 04:45, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Why this article is written in British English? Venezuela is not part of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.185.4.75 ( talk) 07:36, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Flickotown: Per your edit wars here and here please explain your reasoning. How can this be "undue and not in keeping with the tone and point of the paragraph"? You are obviously wikihounding by reverting my edits across several Wikipedia articles. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 11:21, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
How is an opinion expressed by a South Korean newspaper due inclusion in the lede in Wikipedia's voice? Especially for the WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim that a robust public sector caused the economic crisis as opposed to over a decade of economic warfare from the US in the form of trade sanctions, manipulative alliances and sponsoring massive smuggling over the Colombian border? Simonm223 ( talk) 13:43, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Likewise, that of an obscure German think-thank. Certainly not appropriate for the lede. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:42, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
@ 146.115.72.47: Could you please explain your recent changes? You haven't provided references to support them. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 14:00, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm not taking the side of either the IP nor Jamez42 as I see both sets of edits as being full of WP:WEASEL problems and both as being used for either a pro or anti-Maduro WP:POVPUSH. But I'm getting pretty tired of IPs and SPAs edit warring in Venezuela articles to make Wikipedia into a WP:SOAPBOX for their preferred opinions and I'm half tempted to ask Arbcomm to implement a restrictive sanctions regime here. I suggest you two avoid edit warring, go to talk and also consider editing other areas of Wikipedia once in a while. I'm tired of this. And it's getting worse, not better. Everybody stop. Simonm223 ( talk) 13:58, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Simonm223: Another bad faith assumption, and if I may add, a mistaken one. This is becoming off topic, I continued the discussion in your talk page. Returning to the issue and like I have said before, not only weasel wording has been added, but unreferenced claims have been added or have replaced important ones, like suggestion that the poverty improvements have not been temporary, that these changes have stagnated rather than reversed, and arguing foreign sanctions are responsible for the crisis, not to mention that the category "Democratic socialists" was removed without explaination. It seems that these changes were not reviewed properly before being restored. I have pinged the IP that added the content, to no avail. If there aren't any policy based reasons to maintain these changes, I will restore the original version per WP:VERIFY and WP:NPOV. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 22:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Chávez did affirm at the very least once in the National Assembly that he considered himself a Marxist, but in another speech he claimed he wasn't. Maybe we could fix this?. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 17:23, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
@ MarioGom: Sorry, I forgot to reply. I think that the mention that he described himself as a Marxist in the lede should be removed, or at the very least changed, since it isn't completely accurate. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 21:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Baprow: Please achieve consensus before replacing the infobox image and follow WP:BRD.---- ZiaLater ( talk) 23:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Baprow: Seeing that once again you have reverted the image, can you explain in the talk page? It appears that it is not the first time that you edit war over an infobox image. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 18:56, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
The image that you propose is not suitable for the infobox. For another place in the article, yes, but not for the infobox. It is too small and when you enlarge it the quality is not too good. There are many better images. In which I propose the president's face is perfectly visible without the need for extensions and its quality is better. -- Baprow ( talk) 19:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 25 | ← | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 |
Ok, so I didn't violate the 3RR, but I will start a discussion here about the removal of this section. The Cato Article which originally appeared in the USA Today magazine looks at multiple incidents and sources involving corruption surrounding Chavez. I do not believe that there are any reasons why this should be removed. The info was properly attributed and reliably sourced.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 01:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
As to "A libertarian think tank—especially one associated with the Kochs—isn't likely to be impartial on this topic", please remember to apply the same logic when liberal think tank CEPR/Weisbrot are used to cite content in this article. Every single commentary about CATO in this section also applies to CEPR/Venezuelanalysis, yet they are frequently cited in Venezuela articles. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:31, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
Here is the article from USA Today:
Author: Coronel, Gustavo
Agency: USA Today
Volume: 136
Issue: 2754
Pages: 67-69
Date: March 2008
That's the original article, I believe.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 04:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
So what have we concluded? Just want to close this discussion or continue if needed.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 03:13, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I see this section has been removed and restored several times, so it seems like it needs a discussion. I'm somewhat torn. On the one hand, Salazar's claim was widely reported; on the other hand, his claim seems to be a fringe theory we're giving a section to, and WP:FRINGE makes it very clear we have to avoid giving undue weight to anything not widely-accepted, which Salazar's claim doesn't seem to be. Thoughts? Mbinebri talk ← 15:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
I read an article about this from NBC. Thanks for this edit, since I was about to make an edit about this.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 17:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I just wanted to explain my previous edits on the section. Since the main article is linked and the "Policy overview" section still needed some clean up, I was removing excess information that was either controversial or out dated/controversial. This included the literacy information and information from Chavez supporter, Mark Weisbrot.
The literacy data is controversial since the changes can supposedly be explained by the deaths of elderly citizens that were illiterate. For example from 1980-2009, the literacy rate among those aged 15-24 years increased only 5.4% while 65 years and older increased 26.6%! This can be attributed to better education practices that those who are recently over 65 years old experienced compared to the older groups of the population that had died that were illiterate due to poor education practices at the time of their education (say 70 years prior to their death).
For the Weisbrot data, it is outdated/confusing to the reader because it states "current economic expansion" when words before it, it says "in 2009". It is also funny because at the time, Venezuela's economy was experiencing a recession and he was saying it was expanding.-- ZiaLater ( talk) 16:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Despite your claims, Zia, there is conflict regarding the election between these sources, and WP:V says contrasting accounts from reliable sources both should be included. It's right there in the intro for the policy. Your source says there was low interest in the election; Riothero's sources states there was high interest and cites a 54 to 64 increase in the turnout, which you incorrectly summarize as a small increase. The sources don't mesh. Neutrality requires including both sides. Mbinebri talk ← 23:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
What I see here are excuses and/or missing knowledge despite you're editing WP for about 2 years by now. Don't have the time and nerve for this but real quick, this edit was just today. Re "however": See WP:EDITORIALIZING; or even better, read the whole wp:MOS including MOS:WTW. TMCk ( talk) 00:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
The website www.venezuelanalysis.com does not fit the criteria for a reliable source listed in WP:RS, yet it is cited numerous times. -- 108.45.56.173 ( talk) 13:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Concur with ZiaLater and IP 108, Gabriel Yuji doesn't appear to understand WP:RS, and for TFD, samples where venanalysis is used incorrectly:
Those are only a few samples-- by no means an exhaustive look at the problems in this article. Over the years, I've supplied multiple reliable sources that have been excluded here, and the POV tag has been removed multiple times without correction of the problems. There are hundreds of good, independent sources on Chavez, this article doesn't use them, and this article is ridiculously too long, going off-topic to construct a biased image of Chavez. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:31, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I have made some recent edits due to a previous discussion that was made above in order to clean the article up and update it. Some edits were not perfect and reversions made it more complicated to correct edits but I am providing an explanation to those who may not be happy with my edits. If we were to place percentages in the lede of this article, then it would leave the lede open to other percentages (like the over 1000% increase of kidnappings and such) and we would be in the same place again with a messy article. Please discuss below if there are any other concerns and please, no more accusations (I am not " President Bush" by the way).-- ZiaLater ( talk) 22:53, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
So there is an argument now that Maduro is responsible for the increase of poverty in Venezuela in 2013. He would have had to make drastic changes in order for this to happen in under a year, but he didn't (see first sentence of Economic policy of the Nicolás Maduro government). Maduro was elected president over one-third of the way through the year of 2013 (late April 2013) while economic policies in place from his predecessor, Chávez, had been in place for over a decade before his election into office. So again, why would someone who was president for mere months be attributed to an increase of poverty when he hadn't even (and arguably still hasn't) made any significant changes in Venezuela's economic policy?-- ZiaLater ( talk) 14:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:38, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:29, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello all. I think a warning sign should be placed at top of the article, because it seems not many users are working on the article anymore. Instead it has been for pure pov rewritten (examples: [5] [6] [7] and if it has the right direction it is possible to pack into the article even the most obvious fakes. I just removed from the article: "Chavez was known to bathe in crude oil as a show of Venezualen might. The "black baths" were required viewing for every Venezuelan citizen and was a weekly program on the Al Jazeera network. Sadly many experts believe that the frequent bathing in crude oil led to the health problems which would ultimately lead to the dictators timely death" (yes this was seriously supported in the article and not just for an hour: [8]. Did just jump over the article but I think it is not unlikely quite some of such type of stuff is in there now. -- 78.51.177.19 ( talk) 02:53, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:19, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 12:59, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
We currently have the articles Bolivarian propaganda, Hugo Chávez's cult of personality and Public image of Hugo Chávez. Which is the difference of scope between them? Wouldn't it be a better idea to merge them into a single article? Cambalachero ( talk) 14:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
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"proved to be unsustainable, with Venezuela's economy faltering while poverty,[7][15][27] inflation[28] and shortages in Venezuela increased."
Source number 7 is cited incorrectly in this case as the information within the source shows how poverty is decreasing. I would label it as verifcation failed, but I'm too unfamiliar with the interface being new so if anyone is out there please remove the citing of [7] in this case. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BD8D:1230:B5DA:2367:7222:AA ( talk) 07:57, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
The Cato Institute isn't devoted to any serious sociological research, it's devoted to pumping out far right propaganda. It's founded and funded by the Kochs in order to normalize Austrian economics, along with other unworkable loony toons ideas.
Using the Cato Institute as a source is literally worse than just guessing and making something up. You might as well consider Infowars a reputable source. Is Venezuela populated by space lizards? Let's see what Wikipedia has to say. Welp, looks like it is! If a major participant in the writing of this relies on the sort of fractally wrong worldview peddled by Cato, then this whole article is likely rotten to the foundation. You're gonna need to uproot the whole thing and check for BS. You've got a slimy little ancap trying to insert their propaganda into a country's article.
72.181.99.6 ( talk) 14:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
In the "political influences" section, a certain editor with anti-Chavez and pro-Israel opinions by the name of DarkKing Rayleigh, is attempting to present Chavez as some kind of "communist-fascist" boogeyman by association, who the world needed saving from.
Specifically, the insinuation that Norberto Ceresole who was an influence on Chavez was some kind of "fascist" is complete disinformation and does not belong in the article. Ceresole was a leader of the paramilitary wing of the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Argentina) and during the dictatorship of Jorge Rafael Videla was a left-Peronist in exile. In no way can he be considered a fascist. Because of his pro-Arab and especially pro-Palestinian views, Cersole aligned himself with Roger Garaudy (a fellow communist) in criticising the alleged Israeli use of the Holocaust to promote anti-Palestinian policies. This doesn't make him a neo-fascist, both he and Garaudy are lifelong Marxists. Claíomh Solais ( talk) 22:20, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 13:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
In the "Economic and social policy" section:
"Chávez created the Bolivarian Missions, aimed at providing public services to improve economic, cultural, and social conditions so he could maintain political power. According to Corrales and Penfold, 'aid was disbursed to some of the poor, and more gravely, in a way that ended up helping the president and his allies and cronies more than anyone else'."
This excerpt sounds extremely anti-government biased and, in my humble view, violates Wikipedia's laws on neutrality. There is no decisive source stating that Chávez created the Bolivarian Missions to "maintain political power". I humbly propose that we remove both the aforementioned piece of text and the Corrales and Penfold quote entirely to avoid breaking neutrality and tell the facts from a neutral point of view. HandIsNotNookls ( talk) 04:45, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Why this article is written in British English? Venezuela is not part of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.185.4.75 ( talk) 07:36, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Flickotown: Per your edit wars here and here please explain your reasoning. How can this be "undue and not in keeping with the tone and point of the paragraph"? You are obviously wikihounding by reverting my edits across several Wikipedia articles. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 11:21, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
How is an opinion expressed by a South Korean newspaper due inclusion in the lede in Wikipedia's voice? Especially for the WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim that a robust public sector caused the economic crisis as opposed to over a decade of economic warfare from the US in the form of trade sanctions, manipulative alliances and sponsoring massive smuggling over the Colombian border? Simonm223 ( talk) 13:43, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Likewise, that of an obscure German think-thank. Certainly not appropriate for the lede. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:42, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
@ 146.115.72.47: Could you please explain your recent changes? You haven't provided references to support them. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 14:00, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm not taking the side of either the IP nor Jamez42 as I see both sets of edits as being full of WP:WEASEL problems and both as being used for either a pro or anti-Maduro WP:POVPUSH. But I'm getting pretty tired of IPs and SPAs edit warring in Venezuela articles to make Wikipedia into a WP:SOAPBOX for their preferred opinions and I'm half tempted to ask Arbcomm to implement a restrictive sanctions regime here. I suggest you two avoid edit warring, go to talk and also consider editing other areas of Wikipedia once in a while. I'm tired of this. And it's getting worse, not better. Everybody stop. Simonm223 ( talk) 13:58, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Simonm223: Another bad faith assumption, and if I may add, a mistaken one. This is becoming off topic, I continued the discussion in your talk page. Returning to the issue and like I have said before, not only weasel wording has been added, but unreferenced claims have been added or have replaced important ones, like suggestion that the poverty improvements have not been temporary, that these changes have stagnated rather than reversed, and arguing foreign sanctions are responsible for the crisis, not to mention that the category "Democratic socialists" was removed without explaination. It seems that these changes were not reviewed properly before being restored. I have pinged the IP that added the content, to no avail. If there aren't any policy based reasons to maintain these changes, I will restore the original version per WP:VERIFY and WP:NPOV. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 22:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Chávez did affirm at the very least once in the National Assembly that he considered himself a Marxist, but in another speech he claimed he wasn't. Maybe we could fix this?. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 17:23, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
@ MarioGom: Sorry, I forgot to reply. I think that the mention that he described himself as a Marxist in the lede should be removed, or at the very least changed, since it isn't completely accurate. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 21:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Baprow: Please achieve consensus before replacing the infobox image and follow WP:BRD.---- ZiaLater ( talk) 23:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Baprow: Seeing that once again you have reverted the image, can you explain in the talk page? It appears that it is not the first time that you edit war over an infobox image. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 18:56, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
The image that you propose is not suitable for the infobox. For another place in the article, yes, but not for the infobox. It is too small and when you enlarge it the quality is not too good. There are many better images. In which I propose the president's face is perfectly visible without the need for extensions and its quality is better. -- Baprow ( talk) 19:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)