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In Pages 25 and 26 Tapp criticizes some books which cite Quincy's History of a People as well as criticizing Quincy himself. This information needs to be obtained and put in the respective book articles. And also in turn it's a great idea to write an article on Tapp's book as it's possible it may make mistakes too. Also as new scholarship comes in, it can dispute findings in older scholarship.
It is important for Wikipedians to get the stories behind the book sources they use and also it's important to make this information widespread and available to teach the public about this, from high school students all the way up to college professors WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
When I was trying to find more snippets from Tapp's book, I found a passage on Google books describing Quincy as a professor.
So I did a Google search and found that he taught at Eastern Washington University. I notice Tapp (the detractor) did not describe Quincy as a professor but instead as Quincy's self-description "political philosopher" as a way of showing Tapp's belief in a lack of credibility in the author. We need to get the whole story and not only Tapp's or Pfeifer's story (or just any one story), so I will try to find a EWU page about Quincy's qualifications. WhisperToMe ( talk) 08:20, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
http://web.archive.org/web/20031209114419/http://www.ewu.edu/csbs/depts/govt/programs.html - http://www.webcitation.org/6R0dNkbsQ - Quincy obviously worked in the department but it seems like he didn't have a university webpage (I'd love to see his resume to get more info on his qualifications) WhisperToMe ( talk) 10:22, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Quincy wrote another book, Harvesting Pa Chay's Wheat.
Mark Pfeifer mentioned the Pa Chay book here:
If/when someone wants to write about that book, the description from Pfeifer can be a good source! (No, in this description Pfeifer does not criticize the Pa Chay book) WhisperToMe ( talk) 10:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Here are the Google Books snippet views used to obtain pieces of Page 18!:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
There was a Wikipedian who cautioned against this because he thinks you have no way to verify whether the criticism is right or wrong. While I appreciate his intentions and thank him for the advice, documenting the criticisms and disputes is absolutely necessary when writing articles about history. WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Comments from the article by Entenmann ( Archive) (p. 4):
I will be making redirects from these names, so readers of his book can more easily find what they are looking for.
On page 3 Entenmann states: "Sonom and the Jinchuan Wars have nothing to do with the Hmong. Fadiman and Quincy, among others, have perpetuated a mistaken identification of Sonom and his followers with the Hmong." WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:54, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
From p. 13 of Entenmann:
"See the discussion in Chapter 9: "'Real History' and the Theory of Ethnic Categories" in Nicholas Tapp, Sovereignty and Rebellion: The White Hmong of Northern Thailand (Singapore: Oxford University Press, 1989), pp. 167-179; Ruey Yih-fu, "The Miao: Their Origins and Southern Migrations," Proceedings of the International Association of Historians of Asia (Second Biennial Conference; Taipei, 1962)."
So remember who Entenmann cites: Ruey Yih-fu and Nicholas Tapp WhisperToMe ( talk) 14:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
In Google Books PT263 (page unstated), Paul Hillmer, the author of A People’s History of the Hmong mentions how Fadiman relied on the book for the history, and yet Hmong: History of a People has no footnotes even though a university press published it. He cited Entenmann. WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
On Page unstated PT20: "Robert Entenmann has largely proved not only that that Sonom was not Hmong but that many other details of the account shared by Quincy and others are inaccurate." WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:46, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Here is another mention of the mistaken identity of Sonom in PT32 of:
Its important to note that Entenmann's essay on King Sonom has been cited by other sources on the Hmong! WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In Pages 25 and 26 Tapp criticizes some books which cite Quincy's History of a People as well as criticizing Quincy himself. This information needs to be obtained and put in the respective book articles. And also in turn it's a great idea to write an article on Tapp's book as it's possible it may make mistakes too. Also as new scholarship comes in, it can dispute findings in older scholarship.
It is important for Wikipedians to get the stories behind the book sources they use and also it's important to make this information widespread and available to teach the public about this, from high school students all the way up to college professors WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
When I was trying to find more snippets from Tapp's book, I found a passage on Google books describing Quincy as a professor.
So I did a Google search and found that he taught at Eastern Washington University. I notice Tapp (the detractor) did not describe Quincy as a professor but instead as Quincy's self-description "political philosopher" as a way of showing Tapp's belief in a lack of credibility in the author. We need to get the whole story and not only Tapp's or Pfeifer's story (or just any one story), so I will try to find a EWU page about Quincy's qualifications. WhisperToMe ( talk) 08:20, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
http://web.archive.org/web/20031209114419/http://www.ewu.edu/csbs/depts/govt/programs.html - http://www.webcitation.org/6R0dNkbsQ - Quincy obviously worked in the department but it seems like he didn't have a university webpage (I'd love to see his resume to get more info on his qualifications) WhisperToMe ( talk) 10:22, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Quincy wrote another book, Harvesting Pa Chay's Wheat.
Mark Pfeifer mentioned the Pa Chay book here:
If/when someone wants to write about that book, the description from Pfeifer can be a good source! (No, in this description Pfeifer does not criticize the Pa Chay book) WhisperToMe ( talk) 10:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Here are the Google Books snippet views used to obtain pieces of Page 18!:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
There was a Wikipedian who cautioned against this because he thinks you have no way to verify whether the criticism is right or wrong. While I appreciate his intentions and thank him for the advice, documenting the criticisms and disputes is absolutely necessary when writing articles about history. WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Comments from the article by Entenmann ( Archive) (p. 4):
I will be making redirects from these names, so readers of his book can more easily find what they are looking for.
On page 3 Entenmann states: "Sonom and the Jinchuan Wars have nothing to do with the Hmong. Fadiman and Quincy, among others, have perpetuated a mistaken identification of Sonom and his followers with the Hmong." WhisperToMe ( talk) 13:54, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
From p. 13 of Entenmann:
"See the discussion in Chapter 9: "'Real History' and the Theory of Ethnic Categories" in Nicholas Tapp, Sovereignty and Rebellion: The White Hmong of Northern Thailand (Singapore: Oxford University Press, 1989), pp. 167-179; Ruey Yih-fu, "The Miao: Their Origins and Southern Migrations," Proceedings of the International Association of Historians of Asia (Second Biennial Conference; Taipei, 1962)."
So remember who Entenmann cites: Ruey Yih-fu and Nicholas Tapp WhisperToMe ( talk) 14:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
In Google Books PT263 (page unstated), Paul Hillmer, the author of A People’s History of the Hmong mentions how Fadiman relied on the book for the history, and yet Hmong: History of a People has no footnotes even though a university press published it. He cited Entenmann. WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
On Page unstated PT20: "Robert Entenmann has largely proved not only that that Sonom was not Hmong but that many other details of the account shared by Quincy and others are inaccurate." WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:46, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Here is another mention of the mistaken identity of Sonom in PT32 of:
Its important to note that Entenmann's essay on King Sonom has been cited by other sources on the Hmong! WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)