This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
This is still woefully thin on early work on the Internet; I'll add some more soon. Also, there's a lot of replicated material on this page, and a number of others (e.g. e-mail, etc), and the whole area (about 20 pages all told, I reckon, along with packet datagram packet switching etc) all needs to be gone over and rationalized. More soon... Noel 08:39, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The link to supercomputing in the Early Growth section...should/could it link to super computer? Ianneub 00:20, May 22, 2004 (UTC)
Can someone please help me dispell the myths that without Al Gore, the internet would not be as widespread as today?
I do this to help myself in internet chats.
I apologize with the language but this guy is a serious ass and I need to have something to make him stfu. He doesn't listen to the cold war, he doesn't think the arpanet is the reason of the web, and he doesn't believe anything, really. If you get some plz post to my talk page. -- TIB 01:25, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)
So why there is still no information about Al Gore's involvement? This document Al Gore's support of the Internet by V.Cerf and B.Kahn looks like a great place to get the facts. Anyone care to write that? Paranoid 10:59, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Is there anyone who knows computers and pedagogy who can make this article more approachable to those of us who are not so well-versed in computer technical language? The article naturally uses lots of jargon. But unfortunately it doesn't define most of them, and the links to the jargon pages usually lead the layman to... more jargon. (See TCP/IP for a great example of this). The history of the Internet is so important to our entire society. The article needs to be more approachable to everyone. Fishal 23:17, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
No, I don't think that would be a good way to go. I guess the best solution would be to work on those linked pages. But that's quite a task. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.25.69.29 ( talk • contribs) 13:26, 5 September 2004
See, I know that personally I am interested in the technical development of the Internet. But being not gifted in that area, I'd just like to know the basics. Maybe it's impossible. I don't know. I think this is a great page; unfortunately it brings home the fact that I am a techie outsider. Fishal 19:15, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Yes, that's one's daunting. :-) Here's the translation into ordinary English: a protocol is just a set of rules and formats which two things can use to communicate. Think of it as a very formal, but (usually) limited-capability, "language". A protocol stack is just the notion that you build up a complex communication system out of a set of protocol layers, each one of which uses the services of the layer(s) below it, and provide a (more complex) service to the ones above it. A good example is e.g. the English "protocol stack", in which the "layers" are:
Yes, probably there's some page somewhere that should say this, to improve the readability for non-technical readers, but you know the Wikipedia - so many pages needing work, so little time! :-) Feel free to add this yourself, to whatever page is appropriate! Noel (talk) 18:02, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Leonard Kleinrock's (sad) attempt to aggrandize his personal contributions is making its appearance here, I see. For more on this, see comments I'm about to post at Talk:Packet switching. Noel (talk) 15:07, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Good article here: http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/users/goguen/courses/275f00/invented.html
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.119.29 ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 15 November 2004
Can someone please help me dispell the myth that the Internet is the exclusive property of the U.S.A.? As far as I know, a great deal of it was developed at the CERN in Geneva, Switzerland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.53.112.171 ( talk • contribs) 16:58, March 29, 2005
First, let me respond to the first poster and say that you have a seriously confused, and incredibly minimal understanding of both the subject and the history (I know to a lot of people "the Internet" == "WWW", but it's just not so). You really need to study up a bit on this subject before making such commments. Coolceasar is quite right about CERN and its relationship to the origins of the Internet (which is 0.0000000) and the WWW.
Having said that, the truth of the matter on relative US/European contributions, insofar as the Internet is concerned, is neither black nor white.
Europeans did have a very important impact on the early days of the Internet (i.e. prior to 1980). First, the work of Louis Pouzin and others on CYCLADES was really important in proving some concepts that became a key part of TCP/IP (i.e. making the hosts responsible for reliable delivery). Second, a number of Europeans researchers played imporant roles early on - do note that one of the seminal first Internet papers (the name escapes me at the moment, no time to look it up) is "Cerf and Kirstein" - Kirstein being Peter Kirstein, of the University College London. Etc, etc, etc. There's a plaque being put up out at Stanford to commemorate the "Birth of the Internet", and you will notice that there are a number of European institutions and contributors named.
On the other hand, it was a principally US project (the funding and drive all came from the US, along with most of the people, and most of the early work). The first Internet research meeting I went to (in the fall of 1977 - you will notice that my name is on that plaque :-), I think everyone there was from the US.
Coolceasar, your understanding of why Europeans weren't involved (the whole ISO rant) has some truth to it, but is not completely correct either, and your comments about military control are also subtly wrong. (No time right at this moment to explain why in detail, alas.) And you also make the common mistake of thinking the ARPANet was an early stage of the Internet project, and it wasn't - it was a wholly separate project that the Internet later sucked up. Etc, etc. So please be a little more careful in making such assertions. Noel (talk) 17:28, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I have heard that the USSR had its own parallel form of the internet. Can anyone confirm this? Is it still operational, or absorbed into the WWW? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MacRusgail ( talk • contribs) 17:31, 30 June 2005
Does this article have a rather limited geographical scope? Something more about the growth of the 'net outside the US would be interesting. For example, I've heard that Norway was the first country outside the US to be connected. And when was the first Internet connection in, for example, the UK, Japan and China (to mention some) made? As it stands now US companies and researchers dominate the article too much. Jørgen 19:07, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Where is the history of applications on the internet? Many people may be interested in learning about the physical growth of the network, but what about the history of internet usage? The story of what people did with the internet from 1969 to present would be a very interesting one. Here's a hint: ftp, email, newsgroups, irc, instant messaging and the biggie: www (including browsing, search engines, blogging, wikis, syndication feeds, social bookmarking). Jeff schiller 20:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
I struggling to find any reference to Dot Com anywhere on wikipedia. The boom and bust was a major recent event and surely forms part of the history of the Internet. Maybe I am just blind or thick today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.41.250 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 31 July 2005
Personally, I have very little knowledge of the origins of the internet apart from what I've read on Wikipedia. However, on a recent college visit to MIT, the official tour guide mentioned that the internet was invented there. Of course, this cannot be taken at face value, as the creation of the internet seems to have been largely collaborative, so this statement probably means that a landmark development in the creation of the internet occurred at MIT.
Why isn't MIT mentioned at all in the article? Is this just another myth? JianLi 03:15, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
This is still woefully thin on early work on the Internet; I'll add some more soon. Also, there's a lot of replicated material on this page, and a number of others (e.g. e-mail, etc), and the whole area (about 20 pages all told, I reckon, along with packet datagram packet switching etc) all needs to be gone over and rationalized. More soon... Noel 08:39, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The link to supercomputing in the Early Growth section...should/could it link to super computer? Ianneub 00:20, May 22, 2004 (UTC)
Can someone please help me dispell the myths that without Al Gore, the internet would not be as widespread as today?
I do this to help myself in internet chats.
I apologize with the language but this guy is a serious ass and I need to have something to make him stfu. He doesn't listen to the cold war, he doesn't think the arpanet is the reason of the web, and he doesn't believe anything, really. If you get some plz post to my talk page. -- TIB 01:25, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)
So why there is still no information about Al Gore's involvement? This document Al Gore's support of the Internet by V.Cerf and B.Kahn looks like a great place to get the facts. Anyone care to write that? Paranoid 10:59, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Is there anyone who knows computers and pedagogy who can make this article more approachable to those of us who are not so well-versed in computer technical language? The article naturally uses lots of jargon. But unfortunately it doesn't define most of them, and the links to the jargon pages usually lead the layman to... more jargon. (See TCP/IP for a great example of this). The history of the Internet is so important to our entire society. The article needs to be more approachable to everyone. Fishal 23:17, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
No, I don't think that would be a good way to go. I guess the best solution would be to work on those linked pages. But that's quite a task. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.25.69.29 ( talk • contribs) 13:26, 5 September 2004
See, I know that personally I am interested in the technical development of the Internet. But being not gifted in that area, I'd just like to know the basics. Maybe it's impossible. I don't know. I think this is a great page; unfortunately it brings home the fact that I am a techie outsider. Fishal 19:15, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Yes, that's one's daunting. :-) Here's the translation into ordinary English: a protocol is just a set of rules and formats which two things can use to communicate. Think of it as a very formal, but (usually) limited-capability, "language". A protocol stack is just the notion that you build up a complex communication system out of a set of protocol layers, each one of which uses the services of the layer(s) below it, and provide a (more complex) service to the ones above it. A good example is e.g. the English "protocol stack", in which the "layers" are:
Yes, probably there's some page somewhere that should say this, to improve the readability for non-technical readers, but you know the Wikipedia - so many pages needing work, so little time! :-) Feel free to add this yourself, to whatever page is appropriate! Noel (talk) 18:02, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Leonard Kleinrock's (sad) attempt to aggrandize his personal contributions is making its appearance here, I see. For more on this, see comments I'm about to post at Talk:Packet switching. Noel (talk) 15:07, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Good article here: http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/users/goguen/courses/275f00/invented.html
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.4.119.29 ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 15 November 2004
Can someone please help me dispell the myth that the Internet is the exclusive property of the U.S.A.? As far as I know, a great deal of it was developed at the CERN in Geneva, Switzerland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.53.112.171 ( talk • contribs) 16:58, March 29, 2005
First, let me respond to the first poster and say that you have a seriously confused, and incredibly minimal understanding of both the subject and the history (I know to a lot of people "the Internet" == "WWW", but it's just not so). You really need to study up a bit on this subject before making such commments. Coolceasar is quite right about CERN and its relationship to the origins of the Internet (which is 0.0000000) and the WWW.
Having said that, the truth of the matter on relative US/European contributions, insofar as the Internet is concerned, is neither black nor white.
Europeans did have a very important impact on the early days of the Internet (i.e. prior to 1980). First, the work of Louis Pouzin and others on CYCLADES was really important in proving some concepts that became a key part of TCP/IP (i.e. making the hosts responsible for reliable delivery). Second, a number of Europeans researchers played imporant roles early on - do note that one of the seminal first Internet papers (the name escapes me at the moment, no time to look it up) is "Cerf and Kirstein" - Kirstein being Peter Kirstein, of the University College London. Etc, etc, etc. There's a plaque being put up out at Stanford to commemorate the "Birth of the Internet", and you will notice that there are a number of European institutions and contributors named.
On the other hand, it was a principally US project (the funding and drive all came from the US, along with most of the people, and most of the early work). The first Internet research meeting I went to (in the fall of 1977 - you will notice that my name is on that plaque :-), I think everyone there was from the US.
Coolceasar, your understanding of why Europeans weren't involved (the whole ISO rant) has some truth to it, but is not completely correct either, and your comments about military control are also subtly wrong. (No time right at this moment to explain why in detail, alas.) And you also make the common mistake of thinking the ARPANet was an early stage of the Internet project, and it wasn't - it was a wholly separate project that the Internet later sucked up. Etc, etc. So please be a little more careful in making such assertions. Noel (talk) 17:28, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I have heard that the USSR had its own parallel form of the internet. Can anyone confirm this? Is it still operational, or absorbed into the WWW? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MacRusgail ( talk • contribs) 17:31, 30 June 2005
Does this article have a rather limited geographical scope? Something more about the growth of the 'net outside the US would be interesting. For example, I've heard that Norway was the first country outside the US to be connected. And when was the first Internet connection in, for example, the UK, Japan and China (to mention some) made? As it stands now US companies and researchers dominate the article too much. Jørgen 19:07, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Where is the history of applications on the internet? Many people may be interested in learning about the physical growth of the network, but what about the history of internet usage? The story of what people did with the internet from 1969 to present would be a very interesting one. Here's a hint: ftp, email, newsgroups, irc, instant messaging and the biggie: www (including browsing, search engines, blogging, wikis, syndication feeds, social bookmarking). Jeff schiller 20:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
I struggling to find any reference to Dot Com anywhere on wikipedia. The boom and bust was a major recent event and surely forms part of the history of the Internet. Maybe I am just blind or thick today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.41.250 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 31 July 2005
Personally, I have very little knowledge of the origins of the internet apart from what I've read on Wikipedia. However, on a recent college visit to MIT, the official tour guide mentioned that the internet was invented there. Of course, this cannot be taken at face value, as the creation of the internet seems to have been largely collaborative, so this statement probably means that a landmark development in the creation of the internet occurred at MIT.
Why isn't MIT mentioned at all in the article? Is this just another myth? JianLi 03:15, 2 September 2005 (UTC)