This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
' The relatively new nomenclature raises many points of discussion. Many consider Hinduism to be a way of life rather than an organized religion, and it is telling that neither has the Hindu religion established a practice for formal conversion, nor does it actively seek converts. The term Hindu was often used to refer to an ethnicity ( [1] [2][) (historically by people from outside the Indian subcontinent) just as Jew is used to refer to a particular ethnicity. Hinduism however, attaches minimal significance to the ethnicity in its scriptures, in contrast to Judaism and other Abrahamic religions where the concepts of Promised land and tribes of Israel are held as significant. The use of the term Hindu to identify an ethnicity is falling out of common use, also because Hindus comprise a larger ethnic group than that with which they were traditionally identified. '
This passage needs work on its prose. When I mentioned prosletyzing originally I did so intentionally to draw a line between native ethnic hindu's, who are not at all known for seeking to convert outsiders, and non-ethnic hindu's who feel they have converted to sanatana dharama, or have created their own form ( hare krishna, trancendental meditation, etc...) who in my experience are quite vigorous about attempting to convert others. Sam Spade 08:17, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
To be honest its an area which I am not entirely confident/comfortable as how to best express, so I am open to suggestions or others attempts. Sam Spade 08:40, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Clearly there are varied views on this, and we must be careful to express all POV's fairly and accurately Sam Spade 09:07, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The talk about Jewish ethnicity is so in-depth as to be tangential and at best should go under Hindu as an Ethnicity. I think, in the prefatory remarks, making mention of the fact that Jewish identity is ethnically-bound and contrasting that with Hindus is important but that further explication can remain in the ethnicity section. Otherwise, we end up going crazy in the intro.
Also, on that note, there IS a very great importance attached by Hindus to Bharat varsha, which has been shown to signify the Indian subcontinent and immediately surrounding areas. While it is NOTHING like Zionism, there is a great deal of lore around India as the mother, Bharat Mata, and most of Hinduism's holy sites, in fact practically all, are located in modern-day India, Nepal, Tibet, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Should we not make mention of the centrality of India to the Vedic faiths? -- LordSuryaofShropshire 15:12, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
-- LordSuryaofShropshire 15:23, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
You are quite right, the recent aditions have been wonderful overall, and I for one am quite excited and intently watching for new additions, but there does come a point where making a seperate page for in depth discussion of a metter, while of course leaving a modest mention/overview of it, becomes necessary. I think the areas where this would be most benificial are rather obvious, as they are the longer portions, and the more contentious portions. Hinduism and Ethnicity and Hinduism and Caste would both seem to be useful as would Bhakti schools (and other schools), Hinduism and Other Faiths, and perhaps others. The information on Hindu scriptures could probably be merged with pre-existing articles on these individual scriptures ( bhagavad gita being a good example), while leaving an overview. Thanks to LordSurya and others for all the many fine additions, Cheers, Sam Spade 21:05, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to edit the msg thing at the very bottom for Hinduism? It should include Yoga and Tantra to be complete.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 02:23, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Nice. Thank you. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:35, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the following sentences-
Historically, the word Hindu predates the reference to Hinduism as a religion; it did not denote a system of religious belief, the term is of Persian origin and first referred to people who live on the other side (from a Persian point of view) of the Sindhu, or the Indus river.
The term Hindu was often used to refer to an ethnicity ([1][2]) (historically by people from outside the Indian subcontinent) just as Jew is used to refer to a particular ethnicity. The use of the term Hindu to identify an ethnicity is falling out of common use, also because Hindus comprise a larger ethnic group than that with which they were traditionally identified.
I had a problem with the use of the word ethnicity with Hindu( see discussion above). Now I see that there are two parallel references to the word Hindu in the first para after the TOC. Are these two references to Hindu within the same chronological context- meaning does the second sentence elaborate on the first? If so then these two should be merged and I agree with the ethnicity reference. Or does the second sentence refer to a later/more current usage in the 20th century( which is what I objected to). Can anyone please clarify? KRS 10:38, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
"Among the dualists, Vaishnavas, according to one census...." What is this census exactly? Where did it come from, where did they poll? On what basis?
One must also take into account that a Vaishnav is automatically someone who is dualist, or does not believe in Brahman, but rather Vishnu (or an avatar thereof) as being the Ultimate Form of God. Same with Shaivaites. There are plenty of Hindus who don't identify themselves as EITHER and many who don't believe in God-worship at all. It sounds very flawed as a study, and it needs citing if its presence is justified. I say this because with information like beliefs of Hindus, other people are around to discuss and counter, whereas quoting a mysterious poll without citing it or its methodology is almost an act of faith that other people are forced to accept. This needs clarification like butter into ghee. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:43, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
We need citations. I saw that one of the comments holding the article back from Featured Article status was citations (although I must say that most articles, featured or not, lack proper citations). I am going to slowly start adding them in, but could others try and help with the process? It would be great if people could, if they see particularly important material (especially numbers, facts, broad statements of trends), add references that are satisfactory. I will begin on anything I see, including a lot of the stuff I wrote. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 21:02, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
I have added a brief discussion on the theisms and -isms of Hinduism... namely Henotheism, Polythiesm, Monism and Monotheism. In addition, I rearranged the page a lot. i felt that the two discussions on cast should just be grouped together. Also, the Index was looking clumpy so I tried to institute some order and classification. The 'what is hinduism' section is sort of a heading for the whole article, and so we ended up giving way too big an intro (a lot to do with my own posts!). So, it could probably be shortened more.
Also, I think we could do with maybe a tripartite division, or quartered, whatever, of the page. It could be along the lines of 'Summary,' 'History,' 'Philosophy/Movements' and 'Scripture/Worship'
We might not actually LABEL it such, but the general arrangement could offer more order and cohesiveness. Any further ideas? Criticisms? -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:07, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
Okay... I've finished a lot. There were unfortunately a LOT of redundancies left in the original article (as it stood before 10:00 pm, Thursday, April 1st, 2004). I slashed a lot and also there still needs to be some more clarity. Also, I think we should have a section (I've started it: called Themes) under which each major theme of Hinduism is hit upon... I did the form vs. formless one... we could think about my 'Bovinity' idea, etc. all under themes. We need to keep the article clean if we want to forward it as a 'feature article candidate' ;) -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:34, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Added Appraisal of Muslim/Hindu relations at the bottom of the page. Feel free to have at it for NPOV or more (accurate) information. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:29, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
"Often, critics of the Hindu/Vedic tradition will use the term Brahminical to imply a karma-kanda, or ritual-based mode of worship, sort of stuck in the four Vedic books and Brahamanas (Vedic ritual books). However, it is widely acknowledged that those who wrote the mystic verse of the Upanishads were in all likelihood Brahmins as well."
I have the Hume translation but am still studying Ghosh and Radhakrishnan (also Easwaran). Why don't you add that in? I would, however, like to see if his opinion has ever been seconded by other comparable scholars. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:58, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
A while back, there was some discussion on one of the Buddhism-related pages about whether it was appropriate to use the term "Hinduism" to refer to Indian religions of 2000+ years ago. The conclusion we reached at the time was basically that it is not appropriate. I think this was intended not as a slight to Hinduism's ancient provenance, but rather to be sensitive to the enormous differences between ancient religions and modern Hinduism. There was an article written under Brahmanism (not Brahminism) apparently based on this way of thinking (I contributed a little editing to that article). However, looking at some of the recent changes to Hinduism, I wondered if we should revisit the issue, and decided to check with some people that actually know something about Hinduism specifically. Should Indian religion and philosophy from 1500-3000 years ago be referred to as Hinduism? If not, is Brahmanism appropriate, or is there some other term that should be used? - Nat Krause 10:02, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The first sentence should introduce the word. So its necessary to mention that Hinduism is a religion first. Only after this can the complexities of the religion be brought out. I checked randomly in two other pages ( Christianity and Buddhism), the same rule applies. So I am adding this again in the first sentence. LordSuryaofShropshire, I request you to accept the convention and not revert. KRS 11:23, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
If you're interested in subjectivity then you'll realize that 1) Sanatana Dharma is a term that has been around for years and is indicative entirely of the whole way of life ideology, as opposed to rigid dogma. It's an umbrella term for a diverse and often irreconcilably different bunch of ideas and traditions that stemmed from one source of thoughts, even if only nominally.
2) This stratification of Brahminism is not a universally held and firm viewpoint, and he who was judging it on that ground was alluding to Romila Thapar, whose authority is not without question in India. And to then slap hindutva on all dissenters is to merely suppress dissent. To have the same source books ( Vedas), to retain practices, customs, prayers and Gods and Goddesses and to develop ones philosophies all from the Vedas is an objective testament to oontinuity. Thus, you will notice that the term Hindu has been applied to Vedic Philosophy by many scholars, well-known and otherwise, from Radhakrishnan to Woodroffe, even Gandhi himself, not to mention many today.
I am the first to attest to the great growth and distinctive splits between classic and early Hinduism. The sacerdotalism (love that word) of the early Vedics, and I believe aptly termed Brahmanist society, was soon reformed through more mystic writers and thinkers. The Upanishads show no complete sundering from the original Vedas. If we acknowledge that Shankara is what one might call a Hindu, or a member of Sanatana Dharma/Veda Dharma, and his philosophies are without doubt rooted in Vedanta texts that in turn draw all support from the Vedas without denying their authority or doctrines, how can one posit complete separation or the idea of two separate religions? Christianity, for instance, clearly split with Judaism by announcing a Messiah and 'annointing' themselves followers of the Christ, creating a separate body, a Church, and abandoning the order of rabbis and the Jewish order as supreme. The complete opposite is seen for early Hinduism, wherein the Vedas and their authority, even if the inherent rituals or injunctions were discarded, were held in highest esteem and continued to play an active role in young Brahmins' lives and their worship. But if you'd like, you can talk about this debate, which is indeed neccessary for approach, and mention, even in some detail, how many eminent scholars feel that Brahminism and early vedic culture, I guess from before Buddha, is distinctly not part of Hinduism and realistically speaking, the Hindu or Sanatana Dharma tradition truly began in the 4th century BCE. go for it. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 02:10, Apr 11, 2004 (UTC)
Hinduism is Dharma and vice versa. Check out the the Dharma article and see if you can add more to this article, which is currently very undernourished. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 18:46, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
As I have mentioned earlier, Hinduism is not a dogmatic religion and most Hindus in India do not refer to their religion as Sanatana Dharma. So I have added the word 'purists'. I have removed the sentence that refers to the growing practice of Hindus to refer to themselves as 'Sanatanists'. It is definitely not a growing or a majority practice. KRS 15:23, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Sanatana Dharma would be the correct or more accurate name for Hinduism. Sanatana Dharma is the term which was used by Hindus themselves to describe their religion before the terms Hindu or Hinduism were coined(by outsiders). Also, I do not understand how it is dogmatic to use Sanatana Dharma. -- SV 03:10, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
we are speaking in english. in english, 'Sanatanist' is a very poor choice, since it sounds like 'satanist'. Sam Spade 04:20, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
you are right about them not being cognates tho, I stand corrected. I simply didn't know what 'cognate' ment. Sam Spade 04:33, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Its not a particularly encyclopedic discussion anyways, unless we know of actual circumstances of any of this happenening. I disagree with Surya about some of the above, being a salesman I know the importance of labeling and subliminals, etc... but its neither here nor there unless we start having some real world verifiability, rather than simply musings, as has been the case with my above concerns. Sam Spade 19:04, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Just ctrl+f and search for "sanatanist"
I will say one thing though... there are some who use the term to mean an orthodox Hindu, while there are others who are trying to spread it as a universal term, a replacement title for Hindu. The point is it's extant, even if minority. Also, in response to the idea of 'labelings and subliminals.' Hindus name themselves for themselves, not to properly sell themselves to other cultures. I mean, I understand what you're saying, kind of, but we haven't stopped using the word 'satin', as in silk? Everyone uses it, and it's far more similar to Satan that Sanaatan.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:01, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)
I have done a minor rewording of the first para under "Caste". Comments welcome.
The second para has some horrible stereotyppes. Could the person who put that in please give some references?--
SV 03:47, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Well, I would call it stereotyping or caricaturing on the part of whoever said that (Manusmriti?). But don't waste your time digging up references for this.
I would like to compliment you on the huge amount of work you put into this page.--
SV 04:31, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
' The relatively new nomenclature raises many points of discussion. Many consider Hinduism to be a way of life rather than an organized religion, and it is telling that neither has the Hindu religion established a practice for formal conversion, nor does it actively seek converts. The term Hindu was often used to refer to an ethnicity ( [1] [2][) (historically by people from outside the Indian subcontinent) just as Jew is used to refer to a particular ethnicity. Hinduism however, attaches minimal significance to the ethnicity in its scriptures, in contrast to Judaism and other Abrahamic religions where the concepts of Promised land and tribes of Israel are held as significant. The use of the term Hindu to identify an ethnicity is falling out of common use, also because Hindus comprise a larger ethnic group than that with which they were traditionally identified. '
This passage needs work on its prose. When I mentioned prosletyzing originally I did so intentionally to draw a line between native ethnic hindu's, who are not at all known for seeking to convert outsiders, and non-ethnic hindu's who feel they have converted to sanatana dharama, or have created their own form ( hare krishna, trancendental meditation, etc...) who in my experience are quite vigorous about attempting to convert others. Sam Spade 08:17, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
To be honest its an area which I am not entirely confident/comfortable as how to best express, so I am open to suggestions or others attempts. Sam Spade 08:40, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Clearly there are varied views on this, and we must be careful to express all POV's fairly and accurately Sam Spade 09:07, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The talk about Jewish ethnicity is so in-depth as to be tangential and at best should go under Hindu as an Ethnicity. I think, in the prefatory remarks, making mention of the fact that Jewish identity is ethnically-bound and contrasting that with Hindus is important but that further explication can remain in the ethnicity section. Otherwise, we end up going crazy in the intro.
Also, on that note, there IS a very great importance attached by Hindus to Bharat varsha, which has been shown to signify the Indian subcontinent and immediately surrounding areas. While it is NOTHING like Zionism, there is a great deal of lore around India as the mother, Bharat Mata, and most of Hinduism's holy sites, in fact practically all, are located in modern-day India, Nepal, Tibet, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Should we not make mention of the centrality of India to the Vedic faiths? -- LordSuryaofShropshire 15:12, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
-- LordSuryaofShropshire 15:23, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
You are quite right, the recent aditions have been wonderful overall, and I for one am quite excited and intently watching for new additions, but there does come a point where making a seperate page for in depth discussion of a metter, while of course leaving a modest mention/overview of it, becomes necessary. I think the areas where this would be most benificial are rather obvious, as they are the longer portions, and the more contentious portions. Hinduism and Ethnicity and Hinduism and Caste would both seem to be useful as would Bhakti schools (and other schools), Hinduism and Other Faiths, and perhaps others. The information on Hindu scriptures could probably be merged with pre-existing articles on these individual scriptures ( bhagavad gita being a good example), while leaving an overview. Thanks to LordSurya and others for all the many fine additions, Cheers, Sam Spade 21:05, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to edit the msg thing at the very bottom for Hinduism? It should include Yoga and Tantra to be complete.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 02:23, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Nice. Thank you. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:35, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the following sentences-
Historically, the word Hindu predates the reference to Hinduism as a religion; it did not denote a system of religious belief, the term is of Persian origin and first referred to people who live on the other side (from a Persian point of view) of the Sindhu, or the Indus river.
The term Hindu was often used to refer to an ethnicity ([1][2]) (historically by people from outside the Indian subcontinent) just as Jew is used to refer to a particular ethnicity. The use of the term Hindu to identify an ethnicity is falling out of common use, also because Hindus comprise a larger ethnic group than that with which they were traditionally identified.
I had a problem with the use of the word ethnicity with Hindu( see discussion above). Now I see that there are two parallel references to the word Hindu in the first para after the TOC. Are these two references to Hindu within the same chronological context- meaning does the second sentence elaborate on the first? If so then these two should be merged and I agree with the ethnicity reference. Or does the second sentence refer to a later/more current usage in the 20th century( which is what I objected to). Can anyone please clarify? KRS 10:38, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
"Among the dualists, Vaishnavas, according to one census...." What is this census exactly? Where did it come from, where did they poll? On what basis?
One must also take into account that a Vaishnav is automatically someone who is dualist, or does not believe in Brahman, but rather Vishnu (or an avatar thereof) as being the Ultimate Form of God. Same with Shaivaites. There are plenty of Hindus who don't identify themselves as EITHER and many who don't believe in God-worship at all. It sounds very flawed as a study, and it needs citing if its presence is justified. I say this because with information like beliefs of Hindus, other people are around to discuss and counter, whereas quoting a mysterious poll without citing it or its methodology is almost an act of faith that other people are forced to accept. This needs clarification like butter into ghee. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:43, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
We need citations. I saw that one of the comments holding the article back from Featured Article status was citations (although I must say that most articles, featured or not, lack proper citations). I am going to slowly start adding them in, but could others try and help with the process? It would be great if people could, if they see particularly important material (especially numbers, facts, broad statements of trends), add references that are satisfactory. I will begin on anything I see, including a lot of the stuff I wrote. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 21:02, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
I have added a brief discussion on the theisms and -isms of Hinduism... namely Henotheism, Polythiesm, Monism and Monotheism. In addition, I rearranged the page a lot. i felt that the two discussions on cast should just be grouped together. Also, the Index was looking clumpy so I tried to institute some order and classification. The 'what is hinduism' section is sort of a heading for the whole article, and so we ended up giving way too big an intro (a lot to do with my own posts!). So, it could probably be shortened more.
Also, I think we could do with maybe a tripartite division, or quartered, whatever, of the page. It could be along the lines of 'Summary,' 'History,' 'Philosophy/Movements' and 'Scripture/Worship'
We might not actually LABEL it such, but the general arrangement could offer more order and cohesiveness. Any further ideas? Criticisms? -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:07, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
Okay... I've finished a lot. There were unfortunately a LOT of redundancies left in the original article (as it stood before 10:00 pm, Thursday, April 1st, 2004). I slashed a lot and also there still needs to be some more clarity. Also, I think we should have a section (I've started it: called Themes) under which each major theme of Hinduism is hit upon... I did the form vs. formless one... we could think about my 'Bovinity' idea, etc. all under themes. We need to keep the article clean if we want to forward it as a 'feature article candidate' ;) -- LordSuryaofShropshire 05:34, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Added Appraisal of Muslim/Hindu relations at the bottom of the page. Feel free to have at it for NPOV or more (accurate) information. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:29, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
"Often, critics of the Hindu/Vedic tradition will use the term Brahminical to imply a karma-kanda, or ritual-based mode of worship, sort of stuck in the four Vedic books and Brahamanas (Vedic ritual books). However, it is widely acknowledged that those who wrote the mystic verse of the Upanishads were in all likelihood Brahmins as well."
I have the Hume translation but am still studying Ghosh and Radhakrishnan (also Easwaran). Why don't you add that in? I would, however, like to see if his opinion has ever been seconded by other comparable scholars. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:58, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
A while back, there was some discussion on one of the Buddhism-related pages about whether it was appropriate to use the term "Hinduism" to refer to Indian religions of 2000+ years ago. The conclusion we reached at the time was basically that it is not appropriate. I think this was intended not as a slight to Hinduism's ancient provenance, but rather to be sensitive to the enormous differences between ancient religions and modern Hinduism. There was an article written under Brahmanism (not Brahminism) apparently based on this way of thinking (I contributed a little editing to that article). However, looking at some of the recent changes to Hinduism, I wondered if we should revisit the issue, and decided to check with some people that actually know something about Hinduism specifically. Should Indian religion and philosophy from 1500-3000 years ago be referred to as Hinduism? If not, is Brahmanism appropriate, or is there some other term that should be used? - Nat Krause 10:02, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The first sentence should introduce the word. So its necessary to mention that Hinduism is a religion first. Only after this can the complexities of the religion be brought out. I checked randomly in two other pages ( Christianity and Buddhism), the same rule applies. So I am adding this again in the first sentence. LordSuryaofShropshire, I request you to accept the convention and not revert. KRS 11:23, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
If you're interested in subjectivity then you'll realize that 1) Sanatana Dharma is a term that has been around for years and is indicative entirely of the whole way of life ideology, as opposed to rigid dogma. It's an umbrella term for a diverse and often irreconcilably different bunch of ideas and traditions that stemmed from one source of thoughts, even if only nominally.
2) This stratification of Brahminism is not a universally held and firm viewpoint, and he who was judging it on that ground was alluding to Romila Thapar, whose authority is not without question in India. And to then slap hindutva on all dissenters is to merely suppress dissent. To have the same source books ( Vedas), to retain practices, customs, prayers and Gods and Goddesses and to develop ones philosophies all from the Vedas is an objective testament to oontinuity. Thus, you will notice that the term Hindu has been applied to Vedic Philosophy by many scholars, well-known and otherwise, from Radhakrishnan to Woodroffe, even Gandhi himself, not to mention many today.
I am the first to attest to the great growth and distinctive splits between classic and early Hinduism. The sacerdotalism (love that word) of the early Vedics, and I believe aptly termed Brahmanist society, was soon reformed through more mystic writers and thinkers. The Upanishads show no complete sundering from the original Vedas. If we acknowledge that Shankara is what one might call a Hindu, or a member of Sanatana Dharma/Veda Dharma, and his philosophies are without doubt rooted in Vedanta texts that in turn draw all support from the Vedas without denying their authority or doctrines, how can one posit complete separation or the idea of two separate religions? Christianity, for instance, clearly split with Judaism by announcing a Messiah and 'annointing' themselves followers of the Christ, creating a separate body, a Church, and abandoning the order of rabbis and the Jewish order as supreme. The complete opposite is seen for early Hinduism, wherein the Vedas and their authority, even if the inherent rituals or injunctions were discarded, were held in highest esteem and continued to play an active role in young Brahmins' lives and their worship. But if you'd like, you can talk about this debate, which is indeed neccessary for approach, and mention, even in some detail, how many eminent scholars feel that Brahminism and early vedic culture, I guess from before Buddha, is distinctly not part of Hinduism and realistically speaking, the Hindu or Sanatana Dharma tradition truly began in the 4th century BCE. go for it. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 02:10, Apr 11, 2004 (UTC)
Hinduism is Dharma and vice versa. Check out the the Dharma article and see if you can add more to this article, which is currently very undernourished. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 18:46, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
As I have mentioned earlier, Hinduism is not a dogmatic religion and most Hindus in India do not refer to their religion as Sanatana Dharma. So I have added the word 'purists'. I have removed the sentence that refers to the growing practice of Hindus to refer to themselves as 'Sanatanists'. It is definitely not a growing or a majority practice. KRS 15:23, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Sanatana Dharma would be the correct or more accurate name for Hinduism. Sanatana Dharma is the term which was used by Hindus themselves to describe their religion before the terms Hindu or Hinduism were coined(by outsiders). Also, I do not understand how it is dogmatic to use Sanatana Dharma. -- SV 03:10, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
we are speaking in english. in english, 'Sanatanist' is a very poor choice, since it sounds like 'satanist'. Sam Spade 04:20, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
you are right about them not being cognates tho, I stand corrected. I simply didn't know what 'cognate' ment. Sam Spade 04:33, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Its not a particularly encyclopedic discussion anyways, unless we know of actual circumstances of any of this happenening. I disagree with Surya about some of the above, being a salesman I know the importance of labeling and subliminals, etc... but its neither here nor there unless we start having some real world verifiability, rather than simply musings, as has been the case with my above concerns. Sam Spade 19:04, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Just ctrl+f and search for "sanatanist"
I will say one thing though... there are some who use the term to mean an orthodox Hindu, while there are others who are trying to spread it as a universal term, a replacement title for Hindu. The point is it's extant, even if minority. Also, in response to the idea of 'labelings and subliminals.' Hindus name themselves for themselves, not to properly sell themselves to other cultures. I mean, I understand what you're saying, kind of, but we haven't stopped using the word 'satin', as in silk? Everyone uses it, and it's far more similar to Satan that Sanaatan.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:01, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)
I have done a minor rewording of the first para under "Caste". Comments welcome.
The second para has some horrible stereotyppes. Could the person who put that in please give some references?--
SV 03:47, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Well, I would call it stereotyping or caricaturing on the part of whoever said that (Manusmriti?). But don't waste your time digging up references for this.
I would like to compliment you on the huge amount of work you put into this page.--
SV 04:31, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)