Harvard Girl has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
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A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know?" column on
March 25, 2009. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that in the first eight years after
Harvard Girl was published in
mainland China, the number of Chinese applicants to
Harvard increased tenfold? |
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Here are a couple sources I have but didn't put in the article.
The reason I didn't include these is that the first one is little more than a blog aggregating a bunch of other sources which are already in the article, and the second only barely mentions Harvard Girl (the rest of it is about another book which was specifically about their own school)—it might be useful as an inline reference in a discussion of how well-known the book is among Chinese students and how many copycats it has created, but it's not appropriate as an EL (and is certainly not "about" Harvard Girl). rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 15:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
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LexisNexisrʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 22:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
first reading the article i thought it was kinda boastful. But the impact section is very well written to balance both sides of view. Im amazed that an 'undergraduate' degree would spawn a book like this, I would have expected a book about making millions or maybe a 'graduate' degree. One thing that i dont think i saw was, Was she the first chinese girl to get into harvard? Though its interesting its also sad, How can holding ice make you smarter? id imagine youd grow up pretty 'cold' as a person. Few more things id like to know; Is the book even accurate Is there any information about the scholarship she received?., Did she get good grades?., Did she struggle there? Were people upset with her when they found out about the book, or proud and suportive? I think the article could use more follow up to what the person did after, but i guess its an article about the book not the person. Anyway I want to know more so i guess the article served its purpose Landlord77 ( talk) 15:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
In general, I think this article is good, but I would suggest expanding and clarifying a few parts and asking for another copyedit.
I hope these suggestions are helpful. I am putting the article on hold for ten days. Awadewit ( talk) 19:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
"the one-month exchange program in Bethesda, Md., helped her break stereotypes that she held about the United States. Before she went to the States, she thought that it would be like a Hollywood movie. She and several other Chinese exchange students were surprised that they didn't see any street fights or police-car chases." [1]
Question How is source search coming? Awadewit ( talk) 04:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone thought that this book is propaganda that has been encouraged if not outright supported by the university or the american university system?
If one searches for harvard/princeton/chicago on the chinese youtube, youku.com, one finds there several 30-minute university-produced videos which extol their respective insitutions, made specifically for chinese students in mandarin!
The result is brain drain from China. The sooner ones comes to the US the more likely it is they will stay here, rather than drift back to china. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.137.88.165 ( talk) 19:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
While the sourced article states that Liu received a full scholarship, and while, yes, I agree that technically anything can fall under the term of 'scholarship', we also know that it the scholarship was need-based, not merit-based, given that Harvard offers only need-based aid, no merit-based aid ( http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do): "All of our financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need". I don't think there's some big semantic argument to be made here, but I think it's at least conceivable that some readers will see 'full scholarship' and assume it is a merit-based scholarship, which is what that term often means. Why not, in this case, err on the side of clarity and either use Harvard's language and say 'need based financial aid', or, if you want the term scholarship in there, 'need-based scholarship'. I would think this increases clarity without any reduction in veracity.
Be namo ( talk) 02:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
One of the claims in the Criticism section is "Liu gained entrance into Harvard not because of her comprehensive or well-rounded education, but by exploiting "loopholes and defects" in Harvard's admissions policy for Chinese students" (from the link [2]: 刘亦婷利用哈佛大学招收中国学生时存在的制度漏洞和缺陷进入哈佛,根本不是综合素质教育的结果). However that's it as far as the information goes, on here as well as in the reference . So what "loopholes and defects"? How did she exploit it? The reference does not explain any of these or offer any details. This seems like a rather serious accusation, so the article definitely need to state what is it. Without any elaboration, this is an unfounded accusation.-- Sevilledade ( talk) 22:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
And the statement immediately following that "or by taking advantage of guanxi, personal relationships and networks", citing this dead article [3], again fails to gave any details, but exist simply as an accusation. What relationship is it? What "networks" did she have? Did she come from a prominent family? Simply stating an accusation without anything else makes the statement seem quite fallacious.-- Sevilledade ( talk) 22:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
{{
clarify}}
tag there (
you did). The reference is about Xiao Hui's book, and I imagine there is much more detail about this therein, I just don't have the book. If someone has the book and has time to find the relevant section, it would be possible to expand on this (although, in the sake of
summary style, I don't know how in depth it should good). In any case, it's certainly not an "unfounded accusation", there is an entire book about it and that book is clearly pointed out in two references. Furthermore, this WP article never says that we think she did any of those things; those words are firmly placed within Xiao's mouth.
rʨanaɢ (
talk) 22:23, 14 October 2010 (UTC)Several of the claims in the Criticism section, does not have references to back up. One example is the claim "many of China's top students are still compared to "Harvard Girl"", which was not in the two references cited at the end of the sentence [4] [5]. The contributor Rjanag stated in edit summary that "while not said in these exact words, it is obviously suggested in all these sources." What "all these sources"? And the writer wrote it based on the suggestions and impressions these articles gave? While I could not find such information in any of these articles, including The New York Times article Rjanag mentioned. Further, the next statement "admissions to top overseas universities often make big news in mainland China", is also unreferenced and was not found in the two references cited. What source mentioned admissions to top overseas universities often make big news? Just based on Cheng Wanxin and several examples listed in this article that's enough to make a conclusion that admissions to top overseas universities "often" make big news?-- Sevilledade ( talk) 20:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The same unsourced POV content has been inserted repeatedly in the last week. Please provide references that support these changes.
Harvard Girl has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
March 25, 2009. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that in the first eight years after
Harvard Girl was published in
mainland China, the number of Chinese applicants to
Harvard increased tenfold? |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Here are a couple sources I have but didn't put in the article.
The reason I didn't include these is that the first one is little more than a blog aggregating a bunch of other sources which are already in the article, and the second only barely mentions Harvard Girl (the rest of it is about another book which was specifically about their own school)—it might be useful as an inline reference in a discussion of how well-known the book is among Chinese students and how many copycats it has created, but it's not appropriate as an EL (and is certainly not "about" Harvard Girl). rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 15:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help)
LexisNexis{{
cite news}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help)
LexisNexis{{
cite news}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help)
LexisNexisrʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 22:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
first reading the article i thought it was kinda boastful. But the impact section is very well written to balance both sides of view. Im amazed that an 'undergraduate' degree would spawn a book like this, I would have expected a book about making millions or maybe a 'graduate' degree. One thing that i dont think i saw was, Was she the first chinese girl to get into harvard? Though its interesting its also sad, How can holding ice make you smarter? id imagine youd grow up pretty 'cold' as a person. Few more things id like to know; Is the book even accurate Is there any information about the scholarship she received?., Did she get good grades?., Did she struggle there? Were people upset with her when they found out about the book, or proud and suportive? I think the article could use more follow up to what the person did after, but i guess its an article about the book not the person. Anyway I want to know more so i guess the article served its purpose Landlord77 ( talk) 15:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
In general, I think this article is good, but I would suggest expanding and clarifying a few parts and asking for another copyedit.
I hope these suggestions are helpful. I am putting the article on hold for ten days. Awadewit ( talk) 19:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
"the one-month exchange program in Bethesda, Md., helped her break stereotypes that she held about the United States. Before she went to the States, she thought that it would be like a Hollywood movie. She and several other Chinese exchange students were surprised that they didn't see any street fights or police-car chases." [1]
Question How is source search coming? Awadewit ( talk) 04:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone thought that this book is propaganda that has been encouraged if not outright supported by the university or the american university system?
If one searches for harvard/princeton/chicago on the chinese youtube, youku.com, one finds there several 30-minute university-produced videos which extol their respective insitutions, made specifically for chinese students in mandarin!
The result is brain drain from China. The sooner ones comes to the US the more likely it is they will stay here, rather than drift back to china. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.137.88.165 ( talk) 19:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
While the sourced article states that Liu received a full scholarship, and while, yes, I agree that technically anything can fall under the term of 'scholarship', we also know that it the scholarship was need-based, not merit-based, given that Harvard offers only need-based aid, no merit-based aid ( http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do): "All of our financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need". I don't think there's some big semantic argument to be made here, but I think it's at least conceivable that some readers will see 'full scholarship' and assume it is a merit-based scholarship, which is what that term often means. Why not, in this case, err on the side of clarity and either use Harvard's language and say 'need based financial aid', or, if you want the term scholarship in there, 'need-based scholarship'. I would think this increases clarity without any reduction in veracity.
Be namo ( talk) 02:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
One of the claims in the Criticism section is "Liu gained entrance into Harvard not because of her comprehensive or well-rounded education, but by exploiting "loopholes and defects" in Harvard's admissions policy for Chinese students" (from the link [2]: 刘亦婷利用哈佛大学招收中国学生时存在的制度漏洞和缺陷进入哈佛,根本不是综合素质教育的结果). However that's it as far as the information goes, on here as well as in the reference . So what "loopholes and defects"? How did she exploit it? The reference does not explain any of these or offer any details. This seems like a rather serious accusation, so the article definitely need to state what is it. Without any elaboration, this is an unfounded accusation.-- Sevilledade ( talk) 22:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
And the statement immediately following that "or by taking advantage of guanxi, personal relationships and networks", citing this dead article [3], again fails to gave any details, but exist simply as an accusation. What relationship is it? What "networks" did she have? Did she come from a prominent family? Simply stating an accusation without anything else makes the statement seem quite fallacious.-- Sevilledade ( talk) 22:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
{{
clarify}}
tag there (
you did). The reference is about Xiao Hui's book, and I imagine there is much more detail about this therein, I just don't have the book. If someone has the book and has time to find the relevant section, it would be possible to expand on this (although, in the sake of
summary style, I don't know how in depth it should good). In any case, it's certainly not an "unfounded accusation", there is an entire book about it and that book is clearly pointed out in two references. Furthermore, this WP article never says that we think she did any of those things; those words are firmly placed within Xiao's mouth.
rʨanaɢ (
talk) 22:23, 14 October 2010 (UTC)Several of the claims in the Criticism section, does not have references to back up. One example is the claim "many of China's top students are still compared to "Harvard Girl"", which was not in the two references cited at the end of the sentence [4] [5]. The contributor Rjanag stated in edit summary that "while not said in these exact words, it is obviously suggested in all these sources." What "all these sources"? And the writer wrote it based on the suggestions and impressions these articles gave? While I could not find such information in any of these articles, including The New York Times article Rjanag mentioned. Further, the next statement "admissions to top overseas universities often make big news in mainland China", is also unreferenced and was not found in the two references cited. What source mentioned admissions to top overseas universities often make big news? Just based on Cheng Wanxin and several examples listed in this article that's enough to make a conclusion that admissions to top overseas universities "often" make big news?-- Sevilledade ( talk) 20:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The same unsourced POV content has been inserted repeatedly in the last week. Please provide references that support these changes.