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Reading down through the list of state laws, it seems rather confusing the way the layout - apparently - distinguishes (or doesn't?) between a concealed carry permit being required, and whether open carry is "permitted". Hell you can see the confusion in the way I just wrote that.
Most of the listings state "Carry Permits Required?". However, I've also run across
But the biggest problem comes immediately thereafter in each listing. Right after "Carry Permits Required?", the majority of listings follow it with simply "Open Carry?" (with some saying "Open Carry Permitted?" or "Open Carry Allowed?" etc.).
Setting aside the linguistic problem of "Carry Permit" and "Open Carry Permitted ", the shorthand "Open Carry?" is precisely that - shorthand, and unclear, particularly that in the sense used in most listings, it seems to mean that you may open carry, and you do not require an issued license or permit to do so - so the answer is almost always "Yes", coming right after the 'yes' for "Carry Permit required".
Do you see the problem? It's grossly confusing. I believe that almost all instances of "Carry Permits Required?" actually mean "Concealed Carry Permits Required". Likewise, I believe most "Open Carry?" actually mean "(No) permit required for Open Carry".
For maximum clarity, I believe all should be conformed to:
"Concealed Carry Permit Required?" followed by "Open Carry Permit Required?". This maintains a coherent sensibility to the 'yes' and 'no', rather than being reversed in most cases.
I'm up to the task, though it'll be quite a slog to do it for all 50 states plus territories. But before I do so, I'd want some feedback from my peers. Thanks. Anastrophe ( talk) 19:30, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
the core of the problem is that the state tables are just borrowed from the detailed state articles. The tables are optimized for each state's idiosyncrasies. However, certainly some improvement could be made in many (but perhaps not all) cases to get them to be more similar. Open/Concealed Carry? Prohibited. May issue permit required. Shall issue permit required. Allowed without permit. Allowed without permit but (may/shall) permits offered for reciprocity. That set seems like it covers most cases. For the places like NY/CA, we could perhaps add in restrictive/permissive modifiers in the answer as well. ResultingConstant ( talk) 23:06, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I like Mudwater's last suggestion. Terrorist96 ( talk) 01:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Sir Joseph: You may be interested in this discussion. Terrorist96 ( talk) 04:09, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Back on January 1st -- see above -- I suggested the following way to standardize the row headers for concealed and open carry: The first row could be "Permit required for concealed carry?". Then for the second row, if the state allows open carry, it could be "Permit required for open carry?" But for states that do not allow open carry, the question could be "Open carry allowed?" with an answer of "no". So not all states would be the same, but then each question could have a "yes" or "no" answer.
I think I'm going to go ahead and start changing the state tables that don't already conform to that. But, as several editors have pointed out, there may be some states where this is not the best approach, so we should not strictly enforce this. —
Mudwater (
Talk) 22:41, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Please, add a comparison in the form of a common table, such or similar:
http://wykop.ginden.pl/gun_law_america.html
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolvverine ( talk • contribs) 18:32, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
What is "Duty to inform"? The state articles and Concealed carry in the United States do not explain. – S. Rich ( talk) 19:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
A map of "Minimum age to purchase a long gun by state" was added to the top of the article recently, here. I'm going to remove that, because it gives undue weight to just one of the many aspects of gun laws by state. Though purchase age for long guns is a topic of current discussion, the article should not over-emphasize that subject. And as a secondary issue, that map may not be completely accurate. — Mudwater ( Talk) 10:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
The very first Map should be Updated after New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, there is no May-issue States anymore. 67.170.255.241 ( talk) 10:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gun laws in the United States by state article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
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|
Reading down through the list of state laws, it seems rather confusing the way the layout - apparently - distinguishes (or doesn't?) between a concealed carry permit being required, and whether open carry is "permitted". Hell you can see the confusion in the way I just wrote that.
Most of the listings state "Carry Permits Required?". However, I've also run across
But the biggest problem comes immediately thereafter in each listing. Right after "Carry Permits Required?", the majority of listings follow it with simply "Open Carry?" (with some saying "Open Carry Permitted?" or "Open Carry Allowed?" etc.).
Setting aside the linguistic problem of "Carry Permit" and "Open Carry Permitted ", the shorthand "Open Carry?" is precisely that - shorthand, and unclear, particularly that in the sense used in most listings, it seems to mean that you may open carry, and you do not require an issued license or permit to do so - so the answer is almost always "Yes", coming right after the 'yes' for "Carry Permit required".
Do you see the problem? It's grossly confusing. I believe that almost all instances of "Carry Permits Required?" actually mean "Concealed Carry Permits Required". Likewise, I believe most "Open Carry?" actually mean "(No) permit required for Open Carry".
For maximum clarity, I believe all should be conformed to:
"Concealed Carry Permit Required?" followed by "Open Carry Permit Required?". This maintains a coherent sensibility to the 'yes' and 'no', rather than being reversed in most cases.
I'm up to the task, though it'll be quite a slog to do it for all 50 states plus territories. But before I do so, I'd want some feedback from my peers. Thanks. Anastrophe ( talk) 19:30, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
the core of the problem is that the state tables are just borrowed from the detailed state articles. The tables are optimized for each state's idiosyncrasies. However, certainly some improvement could be made in many (but perhaps not all) cases to get them to be more similar. Open/Concealed Carry? Prohibited. May issue permit required. Shall issue permit required. Allowed without permit. Allowed without permit but (may/shall) permits offered for reciprocity. That set seems like it covers most cases. For the places like NY/CA, we could perhaps add in restrictive/permissive modifiers in the answer as well. ResultingConstant ( talk) 23:06, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I like Mudwater's last suggestion. Terrorist96 ( talk) 01:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Sir Joseph: You may be interested in this discussion. Terrorist96 ( talk) 04:09, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Back on January 1st -- see above -- I suggested the following way to standardize the row headers for concealed and open carry: The first row could be "Permit required for concealed carry?". Then for the second row, if the state allows open carry, it could be "Permit required for open carry?" But for states that do not allow open carry, the question could be "Open carry allowed?" with an answer of "no". So not all states would be the same, but then each question could have a "yes" or "no" answer.
I think I'm going to go ahead and start changing the state tables that don't already conform to that. But, as several editors have pointed out, there may be some states where this is not the best approach, so we should not strictly enforce this. —
Mudwater (
Talk) 22:41, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Please, add a comparison in the form of a common table, such or similar:
http://wykop.ginden.pl/gun_law_america.html
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolvverine ( talk • contribs) 18:32, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
What is "Duty to inform"? The state articles and Concealed carry in the United States do not explain. – S. Rich ( talk) 19:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
A map of "Minimum age to purchase a long gun by state" was added to the top of the article recently, here. I'm going to remove that, because it gives undue weight to just one of the many aspects of gun laws by state. Though purchase age for long guns is a topic of current discussion, the article should not over-emphasize that subject. And as a secondary issue, that map may not be completely accurate. — Mudwater ( Talk) 10:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
The very first Map should be Updated after New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, there is no May-issue States anymore. 67.170.255.241 ( talk) 10:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)