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If you look the words "groove metal" up on any search engine you wouldn't get much. I noticed people were using websites like last.fm and metal archives for history on the term during the discussion for the article's deletion, both non reliable sources. And the only reliable source even used in this article is Pantera's allmusic entry. The only other major sources I've really found on the genre are Blender refering to "Welcome to the Jungle" and I've read a book called The Rough Guide to Rock that dubs White Zombie "metal groove". Neither of which go indepth on any history. Terms in wider use like blues-metal, pop metal(well I tried to give this one a page, but it was unfortunatly deleted), and southern metal don't even have articles here. Can anyone find anything about this style's origin, history, anything? This article's notability is on thin ice. RG ( talk) 01:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
What about "post-thrash"? Portillo ( talk) 03:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Allmusic hardly even recognises thrash as a genre, sure they have an article on it, and use the term in reviews the odd time, but they never use it as the actual genre of the album they are reviewing. And why the hell does it say groove metal is a mix between hip-hop, dance, and hard rock and the citation of which leads to something about Korn? hardly a groove metal band. Also why was it necessary to cut this article down so much, it was hardly the biggest and best in the first place. Since when was groove metal not a genre, look at the bands, I mean some of them are extrememly influential, just look at exhorder, pantera and machine head in particular. Why does there have to be this elitism? look at all these emo core genres a new one seems to be made every day and there seems to be plenty of articles on them at least last time I checked. I may start editing this article.-- Thrashattack84 ( talk) 12:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
How about http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Groove+Metal/ Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 12:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Groove Metal was given as a term to replace "Post-thrash". Groove metal is a genre. Get over it. This article isn't going to be deleted —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.165.209.21 ( talk) 15:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Isn't groove metal just metal with a waltz or a swing added to it? That's basically 'cowboys from hell' and 'I'm broken'. Maybe it needs an opinion from someone who's more into music history than simply the metal or rock genre?
Impfireball (
talk) 10:02, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The amount of recognition this genre has, I'm surprised there aren't more sources explaining its existence. I mean, it's in pretty wide use... then again, that was shown by unreliable sources such as Metal Archives and Last.fm. There's going to be a lot of change around the metal-related parts of Wikipedia once this article's gone. (I'm not taking a side in anything here, just commenting.) -- LordNecronus ( talk) 20:02, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree, it really is surprisingly hard to find reliable sources on groove metal, even though its influence (let alone existence) is so obvious. Ryangardenour ( talk) 11:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Can anyone give me a reason why Rate Your Music would be considered a reliable source? RG ( talk) 18:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
You're right its not so I've removed it Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 08:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
This page as well as nu metal have been reverted. Learn to edit. You dont DELETE everything. You pick thorough the parts and if they are ABSOLUTELY FALSE or completely unverifiable, then remove it. 70.119.201.161 ( talk) 18:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The article currently appears to have several problems. At the beginning, it states that it was used to desribe one band, what does not seem to make a whole genre. The sources that the article cites contradict each other. Pantera does not seem to have any connection with hip-hop and dance music and does not appear to be the same genre as Korn, whose style is described in the source. This also might mislead the reader and cause a confusion with nu metal. The statement about Machine Head shows no evidence of any connecton to groove metal, so it should be clarified or removed.
The sources do not seem to provide basic information about the genre for the infobox. This needs to be corrected. The article in general does not seem to be an encyclopedic summary of its topic, but rather a collection of statements that look like a debate. I would like to ask the editors, who wanted to keep the article in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Groove metal (3rd nomination), to provide new reliable sources about the topic and sort the problems out.-- LYKANTROP ✉ 11:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I haven't changed my explanation - it is merely that there are several reasons why it is not a neologism. WP:NEO is not a definition of the word "neologism", nor does it pretend to be. To your other point, a challenge regarding notability is absolutely not the same thing as a challenge about a neologism, and it's disingenuous to suggest that I've implied that. I've said it before but I do not need to prove that groove metal is not a neologism. You need to prove that it is or might be, and that WP:NEO applies in this case. You've suggested it, and absolutely nobody agrees with you - that's basically the end of it. If it were agreed that this guideline applies or has some relevance, then the contents of the guideline could be explored and implemented. An entity does not exist until somebody proves it exists. It is not the case that entities are believed to exist until somebody proves that they don't. Again, we are repeating ourselves with no prospect of resolution. Bretonbanquet ( talk) 22:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
DL? Not sure what you mean. Anyway, I could come up with a few sources to backup the fact that it is a notable sub-genre argument, but it won't do anything to change your mind, and I'm not inclined towards jumping through hoops because it will take time, and that is one thing you seem to be short on, trying to rush things through all the time. – B.hotep • talk• 17:55, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I wish people would stop ruining these articles and turning them into stubs. Portillo ( talk) 09:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Here is a list of available sources on groove metal. Feel free to pick the flesh from the bones and implement them as you see fit. If you want to see them on a seperate page, see here. Please do not remove any, if you have any comments, please put them at the end. – B.hotep • talk• 12:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
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The article is such right now that with the reliable sources provided above it can be expanded... not wholesale reverted back to nothingness. Leave the personal pov at the door. Wiki libs ( talk) 17:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Groove metal and nu metal were both doing fine until some people decided that it was better to turn them and keep them as stubs. Even when reliable sources are included. Portillo ( talk) 05:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment B.hotep has done a solid work of collecting sources. The article can be expanded. But I would like to point out that RG's comment from 13:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC) has a point. You really should try to elaborate on sources that actually talk about groove metal iself; most of what I see are reviews, not an evidence of an actual genre. Just to give a nice example of how a short but accurate and solid article that has reliable sources about it can look like: Deathgrind. If you can reach this, you've done your job. But watch out WP:SYN when using the sources that only use the term.-- LYKANTROP ✉ 09:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
What the hell is wrong with this article? The old one was perfect, it has been messed up by someone who seriously does not like groove metal, groove metal is NOT metalcore as in bands like trivium, nor is it nu-metal (korn), there is of course a hardcore influence as groove metal as it comes directly from thrash, and bands like pro-pain's early work and superjoint ritual combining an even stronger hardcore influence with groove metal, and what's with this part claiming artists do not wan't be under the genre? just because annihilator didn't wan't to be part of it initially(at the time may I add, because ironically they did have groove albums later) bands like exhorder and pantera openly stated they were groove metal, two of the most respected bands and originators. Also look at the bands, Exhorder, Pantera, Machine Head, Pro-pain, Fear Factory, Meshuggah, White Zombie, Prong, Nailbomb, Some of the best albums by Exodus(Atrocity Exhibit A + B), Overkill(W.F.O. and Killing Kind) and Sepultura (chaos A.D.), it is a respected genre, leave it that way. Thrashattack84 ( talk) 16:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
The Washington Post is not a legitimate source of genre distinction, especially not in technicalities such as between thrash metal and groove metal. This is easily verifiable by the discrepancies between descriptions of bands in articles throughout the years. Punkrockdude ( talk) 05:40, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I can see its been discussed at leangth but this article really needs improvement... The description confusses groove metal with nu metal... the part about annihilator detracting from it seems to be attack on it... Even the metalcore page doesnt have statements like that on it where bands often labeled metalcore like Trivium and Five Finger Death Punch slam it themselves. Can sources descriping the sound of early groove albums like pantera's vulgar display of power, sepultura's chaos A.D and Exhorder's The Law, and in fact refering to them as groove metal, not be used to provide a more accurate description and consiquently better article? 60.230.13.158 ( talk) 23:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
"straight forward metal act like Guns N' Roses" - Guns'n'Roses isn't any kind of metal at all, it's rock or hard rock depending on the song and album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.22.82.58 ( talk) 18:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add some characteristics about that? There's an empty section there, by the way. 112.203.182.93 ( talk) 15:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
We've found one short article that's not well written or researched about groove metal and use that to base essentially ALL of our knowledge bank of groove metal on? Since when has groove metal been a fusion of hip-hop? Funk and dance, I can understand but there are no hip-hop elements in groove metal. This is turning very slowly in to a clone of the nu metal section. Groove metal of old certainly wasn't hip-hop based or anything along the lines of Korn. Groove metal of the 2000's certainly isn't influenced by hip-hop (cite: Machine Head, Warrel Dane, Gojira, Lamb of God, Mastodon, Meshuggah and every other band on there APART FROM Korn). I would like to just remove the whole reference of Korn being groove metal and just start again with another article because there's too little to base an article of any depth on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tordah16 ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC) go listen to dead bodies everywhere and divine then tell me korn aren't groove metal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 ( talk) 08:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Well i have an mp3 of a Jonathan davis interview laying around somewhere, Where he specifically mentions Pantera and Vulgar Display of Power as major influences to him around the recording of Korn's first album, so i can see why Korn may have initially been lumped in with groove metal bands like Pantera (pre nu-metal becoming big) — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Hahaha. Anybody says anything Spiritual Beggars is not a groove metal band at all, so it must be removed from the Groups section. -- Aranyos ( talk) 08:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
The source currently used in the article from the Washington Post which cites Korn as an example of groove metal should not be used. While you should obviously use reliable sources, this does not mean we have to use every single reliable source available. And this particular source is not the most important to use. Considering it does not match up with the facts presented every other source, it's pretty clear that is actually talking about nu metal. For these reasons, I believe that all reference to this article be removed from the article. Munci ( talk) 00:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) This issue has been raised before unfortunately the source is reliable even though it is accurate.Wikipedia works on verifibility,not truth Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 21:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello everyone! I have read the references section here and concluded that most of sources are refering this "groove metal" as a term and adjective not a genre. These reviewers are simply merging " groove" with " metal" for their own sake; in most of the text passages the writers use the word "groove" without "metal". I think it was necessary someone with a different opinion give some input regarding the legitimacy of this article.-- Malconfort ( talk) 16:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC) Have you actually looked at the sources. Groove is not being used as an adjective here, besides if it was groovy or groove-laden would be the adjective. I still don't know where the post-thrash term comes from though. Sounds like original research Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 21:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
(inappropriate content removed)
This article is still here and I've been gone a year. My job is done. Vindicated. Thank you. – B.hotep • talk• 23:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
It was really influenced by groove metal. both articles about Nu metal and Groove metal having reliable sources say it. -- 82.139.5.13 ( talk) 09:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Nu metal is a devirative genre of alternative metal, groove metal is just a minor influence, and only to the more aggressive nu metal bands (slipknot etc.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 ( talk) 18:41, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
they're first album sounds pretty groove metalish to me — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
source says "laid the foundation" . Metalcore was started mid 80s and at least 3 notable groups were doing it by late 80s. in the text of the article it says (2000's) as to clarify when the foundations would be. The foundations were already established. I edited a sentence or two that instead of "reversion" by my new pal, should have been worked out until the grammar was perfect. CombatMarshmallow ( talk) 02:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Mashaunix: Wants these removed, I think it should be discussed so, I'm starting this thread to gain consensus, interested editors please chime in. Mlpearc ( open channel) 15:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
And isn't it just metal with a waltz or a swing added to it? Listening to 'cowboys from hell' and 'I'm broken', that's pretty much what it sounds like. Or maybe this needs an opinion from someone who's more broadly versed in music history outside of just metal and rock? Artists that create new sounds can get their inspiration from anywhere, and if it sounds 'fresh', then it only really means it's outside of the scope of the audience that are into that 'scene'. At least, that's my opinion. No need to delete the article, just go into a little more detail explaining this. 'Groove' is clearly not a technical term. It's more like an unofficial category termed by the artist or fans, when it's more technically waltz or swing, in reality (in a heavy metal style, of course). Impfireball ( talk) 10:06, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
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Neue Deutsche Harte (Rammstein, Oomph, Eisbrecher and etc.) was influenced by Groove metal. [1]. So, can we add NDH to derivatives of Groove metal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aljan2000 ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't seem to hear it at all.
References
I believe Industrial Metal, Sludge Metal, and Metalcore should be put under the Derivative forms next to Nu Metal. All the genres listed include similar atmospheres and at times riffing styles. These genres were all appearing around the same time that being the early to mid 90s and show that they all heavily worked off each other. Industrial Metal bands such as Fear Factory, Nailbomb, Ministry, Static X, and Strapping Young Lad have been listed as groove metal bands or have at least have made groove metal album within their discography. Examples includes Fear Factorys "Demanufacture" [1], Nailbombs "Point Blank" [2] (which was worked on by Max Cavalera [3] and Alex Newport [4], both acclaimed groove metal artists), Static Xs "Cannibal" [5], Strapping Young Lad and Ministry have been listed as groove metal on the platform "Last fm" [6]. Sludge Metal bands such as Acid Bath, Crowbar, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Superjoint Ritual and Fudge Tunnel (which was worked on by the previous mentioned Alex Newport) have all been compared to the likes of bands such as Pantera, Prong, and Helmet (bands who were extremely influential to groove metal and pioneered it) as seen on the similar artists tabs on their Metal Archives pages [7] [8]. Sludge Metal is strongly influenced by Hardcore Punk just like Groove Metal, their scenes even overlapped in New Orleans with bands such as Crowbar and Exhorder (Often consider the god father of groove metal) being from their. Metalcores origins can be tied back to bands such as Earth Crisis [9], Merauder [10], Pro Pain, and Hatebreed, all bands who have been cited to have heavy groove metal influence or have even made a groove metal album. The NWOAHM is also comprised mostly of metalcore bands who are often labeled as groove metal as well, this includes bands such as Lamb of God, Chimaira, Machine Head (A strong influence to Earth Crisis), Shadows Fall, and Trivium. With all of this presented I hope these genres can be added onto groove metals derivative forms.
References
Currently the only influence listed is thrash metal, but that’s not true. The genre also takes influence from death metal, sludge metal, and hard rock. It’s not just thrash metal slowed down, it’s also heavier and bluesier. Ganondox ( talk) 08:02, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
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If you look the words "groove metal" up on any search engine you wouldn't get much. I noticed people were using websites like last.fm and metal archives for history on the term during the discussion for the article's deletion, both non reliable sources. And the only reliable source even used in this article is Pantera's allmusic entry. The only other major sources I've really found on the genre are Blender refering to "Welcome to the Jungle" and I've read a book called The Rough Guide to Rock that dubs White Zombie "metal groove". Neither of which go indepth on any history. Terms in wider use like blues-metal, pop metal(well I tried to give this one a page, but it was unfortunatly deleted), and southern metal don't even have articles here. Can anyone find anything about this style's origin, history, anything? This article's notability is on thin ice. RG ( talk) 01:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
What about "post-thrash"? Portillo ( talk) 03:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Allmusic hardly even recognises thrash as a genre, sure they have an article on it, and use the term in reviews the odd time, but they never use it as the actual genre of the album they are reviewing. And why the hell does it say groove metal is a mix between hip-hop, dance, and hard rock and the citation of which leads to something about Korn? hardly a groove metal band. Also why was it necessary to cut this article down so much, it was hardly the biggest and best in the first place. Since when was groove metal not a genre, look at the bands, I mean some of them are extrememly influential, just look at exhorder, pantera and machine head in particular. Why does there have to be this elitism? look at all these emo core genres a new one seems to be made every day and there seems to be plenty of articles on them at least last time I checked. I may start editing this article.-- Thrashattack84 ( talk) 12:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
How about http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Groove+Metal/ Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 12:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Groove Metal was given as a term to replace "Post-thrash". Groove metal is a genre. Get over it. This article isn't going to be deleted —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.165.209.21 ( talk) 15:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Isn't groove metal just metal with a waltz or a swing added to it? That's basically 'cowboys from hell' and 'I'm broken'. Maybe it needs an opinion from someone who's more into music history than simply the metal or rock genre?
Impfireball (
talk) 10:02, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The amount of recognition this genre has, I'm surprised there aren't more sources explaining its existence. I mean, it's in pretty wide use... then again, that was shown by unreliable sources such as Metal Archives and Last.fm. There's going to be a lot of change around the metal-related parts of Wikipedia once this article's gone. (I'm not taking a side in anything here, just commenting.) -- LordNecronus ( talk) 20:02, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree, it really is surprisingly hard to find reliable sources on groove metal, even though its influence (let alone existence) is so obvious. Ryangardenour ( talk) 11:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Can anyone give me a reason why Rate Your Music would be considered a reliable source? RG ( talk) 18:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
You're right its not so I've removed it Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 08:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
This page as well as nu metal have been reverted. Learn to edit. You dont DELETE everything. You pick thorough the parts and if they are ABSOLUTELY FALSE or completely unverifiable, then remove it. 70.119.201.161 ( talk) 18:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The article currently appears to have several problems. At the beginning, it states that it was used to desribe one band, what does not seem to make a whole genre. The sources that the article cites contradict each other. Pantera does not seem to have any connection with hip-hop and dance music and does not appear to be the same genre as Korn, whose style is described in the source. This also might mislead the reader and cause a confusion with nu metal. The statement about Machine Head shows no evidence of any connecton to groove metal, so it should be clarified or removed.
The sources do not seem to provide basic information about the genre for the infobox. This needs to be corrected. The article in general does not seem to be an encyclopedic summary of its topic, but rather a collection of statements that look like a debate. I would like to ask the editors, who wanted to keep the article in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Groove metal (3rd nomination), to provide new reliable sources about the topic and sort the problems out.-- LYKANTROP ✉ 11:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I haven't changed my explanation - it is merely that there are several reasons why it is not a neologism. WP:NEO is not a definition of the word "neologism", nor does it pretend to be. To your other point, a challenge regarding notability is absolutely not the same thing as a challenge about a neologism, and it's disingenuous to suggest that I've implied that. I've said it before but I do not need to prove that groove metal is not a neologism. You need to prove that it is or might be, and that WP:NEO applies in this case. You've suggested it, and absolutely nobody agrees with you - that's basically the end of it. If it were agreed that this guideline applies or has some relevance, then the contents of the guideline could be explored and implemented. An entity does not exist until somebody proves it exists. It is not the case that entities are believed to exist until somebody proves that they don't. Again, we are repeating ourselves with no prospect of resolution. Bretonbanquet ( talk) 22:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
DL? Not sure what you mean. Anyway, I could come up with a few sources to backup the fact that it is a notable sub-genre argument, but it won't do anything to change your mind, and I'm not inclined towards jumping through hoops because it will take time, and that is one thing you seem to be short on, trying to rush things through all the time. – B.hotep • talk• 17:55, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I wish people would stop ruining these articles and turning them into stubs. Portillo ( talk) 09:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Here is a list of available sources on groove metal. Feel free to pick the flesh from the bones and implement them as you see fit. If you want to see them on a seperate page, see here. Please do not remove any, if you have any comments, please put them at the end. – B.hotep • talk• 12:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
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help); Missing or empty |url=
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The article is such right now that with the reliable sources provided above it can be expanded... not wholesale reverted back to nothingness. Leave the personal pov at the door. Wiki libs ( talk) 17:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Groove metal and nu metal were both doing fine until some people decided that it was better to turn them and keep them as stubs. Even when reliable sources are included. Portillo ( talk) 05:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment B.hotep has done a solid work of collecting sources. The article can be expanded. But I would like to point out that RG's comment from 13:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC) has a point. You really should try to elaborate on sources that actually talk about groove metal iself; most of what I see are reviews, not an evidence of an actual genre. Just to give a nice example of how a short but accurate and solid article that has reliable sources about it can look like: Deathgrind. If you can reach this, you've done your job. But watch out WP:SYN when using the sources that only use the term.-- LYKANTROP ✉ 09:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
What the hell is wrong with this article? The old one was perfect, it has been messed up by someone who seriously does not like groove metal, groove metal is NOT metalcore as in bands like trivium, nor is it nu-metal (korn), there is of course a hardcore influence as groove metal as it comes directly from thrash, and bands like pro-pain's early work and superjoint ritual combining an even stronger hardcore influence with groove metal, and what's with this part claiming artists do not wan't be under the genre? just because annihilator didn't wan't to be part of it initially(at the time may I add, because ironically they did have groove albums later) bands like exhorder and pantera openly stated they were groove metal, two of the most respected bands and originators. Also look at the bands, Exhorder, Pantera, Machine Head, Pro-pain, Fear Factory, Meshuggah, White Zombie, Prong, Nailbomb, Some of the best albums by Exodus(Atrocity Exhibit A + B), Overkill(W.F.O. and Killing Kind) and Sepultura (chaos A.D.), it is a respected genre, leave it that way. Thrashattack84 ( talk) 16:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
The Washington Post is not a legitimate source of genre distinction, especially not in technicalities such as between thrash metal and groove metal. This is easily verifiable by the discrepancies between descriptions of bands in articles throughout the years. Punkrockdude ( talk) 05:40, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I can see its been discussed at leangth but this article really needs improvement... The description confusses groove metal with nu metal... the part about annihilator detracting from it seems to be attack on it... Even the metalcore page doesnt have statements like that on it where bands often labeled metalcore like Trivium and Five Finger Death Punch slam it themselves. Can sources descriping the sound of early groove albums like pantera's vulgar display of power, sepultura's chaos A.D and Exhorder's The Law, and in fact refering to them as groove metal, not be used to provide a more accurate description and consiquently better article? 60.230.13.158 ( talk) 23:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
"straight forward metal act like Guns N' Roses" - Guns'n'Roses isn't any kind of metal at all, it's rock or hard rock depending on the song and album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.22.82.58 ( talk) 18:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add some characteristics about that? There's an empty section there, by the way. 112.203.182.93 ( talk) 15:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
We've found one short article that's not well written or researched about groove metal and use that to base essentially ALL of our knowledge bank of groove metal on? Since when has groove metal been a fusion of hip-hop? Funk and dance, I can understand but there are no hip-hop elements in groove metal. This is turning very slowly in to a clone of the nu metal section. Groove metal of old certainly wasn't hip-hop based or anything along the lines of Korn. Groove metal of the 2000's certainly isn't influenced by hip-hop (cite: Machine Head, Warrel Dane, Gojira, Lamb of God, Mastodon, Meshuggah and every other band on there APART FROM Korn). I would like to just remove the whole reference of Korn being groove metal and just start again with another article because there's too little to base an article of any depth on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tordah16 ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC) go listen to dead bodies everywhere and divine then tell me korn aren't groove metal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 ( talk) 08:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Well i have an mp3 of a Jonathan davis interview laying around somewhere, Where he specifically mentions Pantera and Vulgar Display of Power as major influences to him around the recording of Korn's first album, so i can see why Korn may have initially been lumped in with groove metal bands like Pantera (pre nu-metal becoming big) — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Hahaha. Anybody says anything Spiritual Beggars is not a groove metal band at all, so it must be removed from the Groups section. -- Aranyos ( talk) 08:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
The source currently used in the article from the Washington Post which cites Korn as an example of groove metal should not be used. While you should obviously use reliable sources, this does not mean we have to use every single reliable source available. And this particular source is not the most important to use. Considering it does not match up with the facts presented every other source, it's pretty clear that is actually talking about nu metal. For these reasons, I believe that all reference to this article be removed from the article. Munci ( talk) 00:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) This issue has been raised before unfortunately the source is reliable even though it is accurate.Wikipedia works on verifibility,not truth Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 21:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello everyone! I have read the references section here and concluded that most of sources are refering this "groove metal" as a term and adjective not a genre. These reviewers are simply merging " groove" with " metal" for their own sake; in most of the text passages the writers use the word "groove" without "metal". I think it was necessary someone with a different opinion give some input regarding the legitimacy of this article.-- Malconfort ( talk) 16:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC) Have you actually looked at the sources. Groove is not being used as an adjective here, besides if it was groovy or groove-laden would be the adjective. I still don't know where the post-thrash term comes from though. Sounds like original research Syxxpackid420 ( talk) 21:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
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This article is still here and I've been gone a year. My job is done. Vindicated. Thank you. – B.hotep • talk• 23:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
It was really influenced by groove metal. both articles about Nu metal and Groove metal having reliable sources say it. -- 82.139.5.13 ( talk) 09:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Nu metal is a devirative genre of alternative metal, groove metal is just a minor influence, and only to the more aggressive nu metal bands (slipknot etc.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.220.148 ( talk) 18:41, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
they're first album sounds pretty groove metalish to me — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
source says "laid the foundation" . Metalcore was started mid 80s and at least 3 notable groups were doing it by late 80s. in the text of the article it says (2000's) as to clarify when the foundations would be. The foundations were already established. I edited a sentence or two that instead of "reversion" by my new pal, should have been worked out until the grammar was perfect. CombatMarshmallow ( talk) 02:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Mashaunix: Wants these removed, I think it should be discussed so, I'm starting this thread to gain consensus, interested editors please chime in. Mlpearc ( open channel) 15:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
And isn't it just metal with a waltz or a swing added to it? Listening to 'cowboys from hell' and 'I'm broken', that's pretty much what it sounds like. Or maybe this needs an opinion from someone who's more broadly versed in music history outside of just metal and rock? Artists that create new sounds can get their inspiration from anywhere, and if it sounds 'fresh', then it only really means it's outside of the scope of the audience that are into that 'scene'. At least, that's my opinion. No need to delete the article, just go into a little more detail explaining this. 'Groove' is clearly not a technical term. It's more like an unofficial category termed by the artist or fans, when it's more technically waltz or swing, in reality (in a heavy metal style, of course). Impfireball ( talk) 10:06, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
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Neue Deutsche Harte (Rammstein, Oomph, Eisbrecher and etc.) was influenced by Groove metal. [1]. So, can we add NDH to derivatives of Groove metal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aljan2000 ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't seem to hear it at all.
References
I believe Industrial Metal, Sludge Metal, and Metalcore should be put under the Derivative forms next to Nu Metal. All the genres listed include similar atmospheres and at times riffing styles. These genres were all appearing around the same time that being the early to mid 90s and show that they all heavily worked off each other. Industrial Metal bands such as Fear Factory, Nailbomb, Ministry, Static X, and Strapping Young Lad have been listed as groove metal bands or have at least have made groove metal album within their discography. Examples includes Fear Factorys "Demanufacture" [1], Nailbombs "Point Blank" [2] (which was worked on by Max Cavalera [3] and Alex Newport [4], both acclaimed groove metal artists), Static Xs "Cannibal" [5], Strapping Young Lad and Ministry have been listed as groove metal on the platform "Last fm" [6]. Sludge Metal bands such as Acid Bath, Crowbar, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Superjoint Ritual and Fudge Tunnel (which was worked on by the previous mentioned Alex Newport) have all been compared to the likes of bands such as Pantera, Prong, and Helmet (bands who were extremely influential to groove metal and pioneered it) as seen on the similar artists tabs on their Metal Archives pages [7] [8]. Sludge Metal is strongly influenced by Hardcore Punk just like Groove Metal, their scenes even overlapped in New Orleans with bands such as Crowbar and Exhorder (Often consider the god father of groove metal) being from their. Metalcores origins can be tied back to bands such as Earth Crisis [9], Merauder [10], Pro Pain, and Hatebreed, all bands who have been cited to have heavy groove metal influence or have even made a groove metal album. The NWOAHM is also comprised mostly of metalcore bands who are often labeled as groove metal as well, this includes bands such as Lamb of God, Chimaira, Machine Head (A strong influence to Earth Crisis), Shadows Fall, and Trivium. With all of this presented I hope these genres can be added onto groove metals derivative forms.
References
Currently the only influence listed is thrash metal, but that’s not true. The genre also takes influence from death metal, sludge metal, and hard rock. It’s not just thrash metal slowed down, it’s also heavier and bluesier. Ganondox ( talk) 08:02, 13 October 2022 (UTC)