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This page (and article) contained a lot of false, misleading, and outright hostile misinformation.
A few examples:
Claims
Reality Check
I have personal knowledge of Greg Caton's situation. Although I've never met him or his wife, I've had cancer and used his products (starting about ten years ago) and can tell you they do work. Evidently the 400 people who sent favorable letters to the judge for Caton's latest hearing (May 2010) thought so too.
I've spoken to and corresponded with Caton and his wife extensively, and I've found them to be honest, honorable, and sincerely interested in helping others. As I point out in a long article I wrote about him in 2004:
If you know nothing about how the FDA--the enforcement arm of the medical / pharmaceutical industry--persecutes anyone who dares challenge the entrenched orthodoxy of surgery, chemo, and radiation for cancer, regardless of the merits of their ideas, you should read my article before offering your opinions. And if you know nothing about the revolving door between the agency and the industry, I suggest reading another article of mine. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 08:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Greg Caton has become an internet Cause Celebre due to his extradition from Ecuador and a host of "conspiracists" promoting his illegal arrest. Caton is a convicted felon who was the subject of at least one book on fraud in the $21bn supplement industry and a subject of a 2007 BusinessWeek article. Mr. Caton represents a class of individual who seeks to circumvent US law through working in an unregulated foreign country. No doubt his case will become more relevant in the next few months. Jettparmer ( talk) 21:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Why is his conviction of 33 months in jail not mentioned? He has the sentencing transcript featured on his own web-site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.2.10 ( talk) 18:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I pumped this up with as much factual data, legal documents and other information available. It seems tha Mr. Caton is even more interesting than I imagined! The record would indicate that he may have filed a fraudulent patent, certainly skipped justice to Ecuador and was (apparently) legitimately taken into custody for violation of his terms of release. I could use some organizational help in this article. Jettparmer ( talk) 16:30, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
My edit was undone for being unreferenced, but the gist of it - that he was convicted of selling fake cancer cures - was in the Parade magazine reference immediately before the edit. The trial sentencing transcript is posted on his own website ( http://www.altcancer.com/docs/transcript_sentencing.pdf) He got 33 months it according to the transcript. This was not vandalism and should be reinstated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.2.10 ( talk) 20:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Don't really want to, but I removed some ridiculous walls of blockquotes. Article needs serious attention. Cheers, -- Tom (talk) 22:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I am trying to locate the close contributor for COI. Any comments? There is no data on this side. 204.110.170.5 ( talk) 16:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I added bare facts about Caton's arrest in Ecuador and extradition to the US, but I'm not comfortable with my own references. I verified the pertinent facts through the Interpol web site (which I can't include because of a critical broken link), but I prefer additional sources which aren't as blatantly slanted as the NaturalNews.com web site.
I notice User:Threeafterthree deleted a number of sources under WP:EL. While he did get rid of junk, it seems like an act of overkill. The article would have been better served converting the external links to citation footnotes.
-- UnicornTapestry ( talk) 10:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
Numerous spurious users have repeatedly dropped in to vandalize this page by attempting to change the functional definition of an escharotic. It should be clear that Cansema (black salve and escharotics) will attack and kill any tissue - cancerous or otherwise. Jettparmer ( talk) 02:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
This content is uncited Off2riorob ( talk) 20:56, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Cansema is a product which is classified as an escharotic. This material, which is essentially zinc chloride, attacks and kills human skin tissue, regardless of the presence of cancerous growth. This formulation is sold by many, although Caton claimed some exclusivity for his brand. The Independent, a UK newspaper, published a section on Cansema in an article on 18 November 1999.
Citations defining and classifying Cansema
I believe it is relevant to Caton's biography to provide a reference to the product he claims to have developed and certainly offered for sale. Thoughts? Jettparmer ( talk) 21:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Recent edits by an unsigned contributor revert several elements to non NPOV persepctives. This is consistent with repeated vandalism and unsourced information added to the site. Jettparmer ( talk) 16:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
To paraphrase another entry on the Biography RfC page, which fits this case perfectly: I'm attempting to bring NPOV to this article, because I find that nearly every paragraph has a criticism, veiled or stated outright, of the article's subject, and most of the article is written from a critical POV. I see poor writing, poor sources, and all-around bias. I revised the page, and the user responsible for most of the previous content accuses me of vandalism. I tried to discuss it with him on his user page, but his response is hostility and unsubstantiated claims. He admits to a bias against holistic healthcare, so probably cannot be considered objective enough to apply NPOV to articles on that subject. Since he has already assumed my quest for NPOV means that I have ulterior motives, I'd ask third parties to review this article as a whole and evaluate it. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 10:25, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) I am a minimalist/deletionist for the record. Is there ANY middle ground or maybe starting point, ie 1-2 sentences that both editors can agree upon and then go from there? Maybe somebody(either IP or Jettparmer) could post a "starting" version of the section/material here and then try to "work it" out? I tried to read the threads above, but I am so far from being a chemist, so its hard to tell whats what. Not being an expert, I always like to see citations that I can click on, open and read, and see that it supports what is being written in the article. Anyways, everybody stay calm (easy for me to say) and good luck. -- Tom (talk) 00:03, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I propose the following format with clear chronological sections
In each case the section should be focused upon a specific time period. Information must meet WP:RS, which will include his own websites, government reports, supporting alt-med sites, Quackwatch, statements attributable to his spouse. Avoided should be out of context claims (the Sue Guillart comments for example - cited in civil proceedings in Texas, unverified conjecture - the "rogue" FDA agent claim, etc.)
There are several very clear facts about Greg. He is a very intelligent individual who was successful in a number of areas. He also is a twice convicted felon and at present in prison for violation of probation stemming from his second set of felony charges. His notoriety should be easy to determine based upon his case, his clear intellignce and impact on the herbal / alt-med community.
Comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jettparmer ( talk • contribs) 02:12, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
People assume that since he's been convicted, he must be a bad guy and have been out to rip people off. However, as I point out in the article on my site, "Can one seriously believe, looking at the depth of information on Caton's web site, the extent of the knowledge it reflects, the variety of products, the hundreds of testimonials, that he's out to defraud people--unless one were already predisposed to view any alternative treatment as a fraud?" Since you fit the description in the last clause, I assume you'll be meticulous about observing neutrality.
96.237.170.36 ( talk) 13:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not "establish" Quackwatch as a reliable source, except in the opinion of those who wrote the article (who have the same beliefs you do about alternatives). Evidence indicates that it and other articles with a negative portrayal of alternative healthcare are a concerted effort with backing of the med/pharma industry. (A perfect example: I tried to create links, but Wiki blocks this site: http://bolenreport .com/feature_articles/feature_article077.htm and http://www.bolenreport .com/feature_articles/feature_article088.htm. Delete the space in the URLs.)
For now, I'll take you at your word that you're not part of that and are acting with the integrity one would expect of a former naval officer.
However, Wiki has no authority in the real world. People consult it for information, but since anyone can edit it, there's no way to assure its accuracy, and in fact, a lot of it is incomplete, biased, or just plain wrong. A court, on the other hand, is an institution of civil society that does have quite a bit of authority, and a California court says Barrett is "biased and unworthy of credibility." For a court to go out of its way to say that about a litigant is unusual and significant, and I'd assume a former military officer would be more likely to respect that judgment than a crowd-sourced opinion on Wikipedia.
Also, as I pointed out above, according to WP:V, "Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer." Barrett is a self-published source and a well-known (relatively speaking) writer; consequently, QW is, according to Wiki's own standards, inadmissible.
Therefore, I can't agree to using QW as a source. But again, since it's primarily opinion rather than reporting, I don't see that it's necessary. My recollection is that you used it only once in the earlier version, so I'm sure you can find a way around it.
Caton's story is inextricably linked with Cansema (as are the two articles here), and Hurley's book apparently attempts to portray them both as dangerous frauds. Since many people don't believe that, a book representing the opposite viewpoint should be included. However, you can use a title specific to escharotics rather than alt-cancer treatments in general: The Value Of Escharotics, by Perry Nichols, MD. An article about him appears in the May 2004 issue of Dermatology Times (seems to be a problem accessing it; it's also available at http://www.whale .to/a/nichol6.html [another blocked site--delete the space]). Perry built a clinic where escharotics were used from 1911 to its closure in 1956, 31 years after his death.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by posting a proposed template. If you're going to do a draft of the new article, go ahead. If it's just going to be the outline you indicated above, I don't see any point--it would be easier to just reconcile the two versions we've already got. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 14:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Recommend including comments about Greg's current wife and business partner, Cathyrn Caton, ND. She is featured in issues relating to his business and is still operating his business in Ecuador. In regards to his grandparents, parents or minor children - they should be referenced for completeness in a manner which adheres to WP:BLP. It is WP:REL to include immediate family members as they related to information about an individual's life. Jettparmer ( talk) 15:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Let's hope that edit wars over this article can be avoided in the future. Now the article seems more in line with Wiki standards. So it's just a little extra push now, such as rewriting the lead, and the disclaimers at the top can be removed? -- Dyuku ( talk) 21:29, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Recent edits have indicated that Caton has completed his term in prison or been released on appeal. We need good citations on this, referencing the self published Meditopia.org is unverifiable. Jettparmer ( talk) 21:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Updated with link showing intervieww with Greg Caton and Dr. Oz. Caton remains at large selling his bogus cancer curse. Jettparmer ( talk) 14:30, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 8 July 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 18 December 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This page (and article) contained a lot of false, misleading, and outright hostile misinformation.
A few examples:
Claims
Reality Check
I have personal knowledge of Greg Caton's situation. Although I've never met him or his wife, I've had cancer and used his products (starting about ten years ago) and can tell you they do work. Evidently the 400 people who sent favorable letters to the judge for Caton's latest hearing (May 2010) thought so too.
I've spoken to and corresponded with Caton and his wife extensively, and I've found them to be honest, honorable, and sincerely interested in helping others. As I point out in a long article I wrote about him in 2004:
If you know nothing about how the FDA--the enforcement arm of the medical / pharmaceutical industry--persecutes anyone who dares challenge the entrenched orthodoxy of surgery, chemo, and radiation for cancer, regardless of the merits of their ideas, you should read my article before offering your opinions. And if you know nothing about the revolving door between the agency and the industry, I suggest reading another article of mine. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 08:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Greg Caton has become an internet Cause Celebre due to his extradition from Ecuador and a host of "conspiracists" promoting his illegal arrest. Caton is a convicted felon who was the subject of at least one book on fraud in the $21bn supplement industry and a subject of a 2007 BusinessWeek article. Mr. Caton represents a class of individual who seeks to circumvent US law through working in an unregulated foreign country. No doubt his case will become more relevant in the next few months. Jettparmer ( talk) 21:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Why is his conviction of 33 months in jail not mentioned? He has the sentencing transcript featured on his own web-site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.2.10 ( talk) 18:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I pumped this up with as much factual data, legal documents and other information available. It seems tha Mr. Caton is even more interesting than I imagined! The record would indicate that he may have filed a fraudulent patent, certainly skipped justice to Ecuador and was (apparently) legitimately taken into custody for violation of his terms of release. I could use some organizational help in this article. Jettparmer ( talk) 16:30, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
My edit was undone for being unreferenced, but the gist of it - that he was convicted of selling fake cancer cures - was in the Parade magazine reference immediately before the edit. The trial sentencing transcript is posted on his own website ( http://www.altcancer.com/docs/transcript_sentencing.pdf) He got 33 months it according to the transcript. This was not vandalism and should be reinstated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.2.10 ( talk) 20:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Don't really want to, but I removed some ridiculous walls of blockquotes. Article needs serious attention. Cheers, -- Tom (talk) 22:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I am trying to locate the close contributor for COI. Any comments? There is no data on this side. 204.110.170.5 ( talk) 16:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I added bare facts about Caton's arrest in Ecuador and extradition to the US, but I'm not comfortable with my own references. I verified the pertinent facts through the Interpol web site (which I can't include because of a critical broken link), but I prefer additional sources which aren't as blatantly slanted as the NaturalNews.com web site.
I notice User:Threeafterthree deleted a number of sources under WP:EL. While he did get rid of junk, it seems like an act of overkill. The article would have been better served converting the external links to citation footnotes.
-- UnicornTapestry ( talk) 10:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
Numerous spurious users have repeatedly dropped in to vandalize this page by attempting to change the functional definition of an escharotic. It should be clear that Cansema (black salve and escharotics) will attack and kill any tissue - cancerous or otherwise. Jettparmer ( talk) 02:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
This content is uncited Off2riorob ( talk) 20:56, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Cansema is a product which is classified as an escharotic. This material, which is essentially zinc chloride, attacks and kills human skin tissue, regardless of the presence of cancerous growth. This formulation is sold by many, although Caton claimed some exclusivity for his brand. The Independent, a UK newspaper, published a section on Cansema in an article on 18 November 1999.
Citations defining and classifying Cansema
I believe it is relevant to Caton's biography to provide a reference to the product he claims to have developed and certainly offered for sale. Thoughts? Jettparmer ( talk) 21:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Recent edits by an unsigned contributor revert several elements to non NPOV persepctives. This is consistent with repeated vandalism and unsourced information added to the site. Jettparmer ( talk) 16:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
To paraphrase another entry on the Biography RfC page, which fits this case perfectly: I'm attempting to bring NPOV to this article, because I find that nearly every paragraph has a criticism, veiled or stated outright, of the article's subject, and most of the article is written from a critical POV. I see poor writing, poor sources, and all-around bias. I revised the page, and the user responsible for most of the previous content accuses me of vandalism. I tried to discuss it with him on his user page, but his response is hostility and unsubstantiated claims. He admits to a bias against holistic healthcare, so probably cannot be considered objective enough to apply NPOV to articles on that subject. Since he has already assumed my quest for NPOV means that I have ulterior motives, I'd ask third parties to review this article as a whole and evaluate it. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 10:25, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) I am a minimalist/deletionist for the record. Is there ANY middle ground or maybe starting point, ie 1-2 sentences that both editors can agree upon and then go from there? Maybe somebody(either IP or Jettparmer) could post a "starting" version of the section/material here and then try to "work it" out? I tried to read the threads above, but I am so far from being a chemist, so its hard to tell whats what. Not being an expert, I always like to see citations that I can click on, open and read, and see that it supports what is being written in the article. Anyways, everybody stay calm (easy for me to say) and good luck. -- Tom (talk) 00:03, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I propose the following format with clear chronological sections
In each case the section should be focused upon a specific time period. Information must meet WP:RS, which will include his own websites, government reports, supporting alt-med sites, Quackwatch, statements attributable to his spouse. Avoided should be out of context claims (the Sue Guillart comments for example - cited in civil proceedings in Texas, unverified conjecture - the "rogue" FDA agent claim, etc.)
There are several very clear facts about Greg. He is a very intelligent individual who was successful in a number of areas. He also is a twice convicted felon and at present in prison for violation of probation stemming from his second set of felony charges. His notoriety should be easy to determine based upon his case, his clear intellignce and impact on the herbal / alt-med community.
Comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jettparmer ( talk • contribs) 02:12, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
People assume that since he's been convicted, he must be a bad guy and have been out to rip people off. However, as I point out in the article on my site, "Can one seriously believe, looking at the depth of information on Caton's web site, the extent of the knowledge it reflects, the variety of products, the hundreds of testimonials, that he's out to defraud people--unless one were already predisposed to view any alternative treatment as a fraud?" Since you fit the description in the last clause, I assume you'll be meticulous about observing neutrality.
96.237.170.36 ( talk) 13:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not "establish" Quackwatch as a reliable source, except in the opinion of those who wrote the article (who have the same beliefs you do about alternatives). Evidence indicates that it and other articles with a negative portrayal of alternative healthcare are a concerted effort with backing of the med/pharma industry. (A perfect example: I tried to create links, but Wiki blocks this site: http://bolenreport .com/feature_articles/feature_article077.htm and http://www.bolenreport .com/feature_articles/feature_article088.htm. Delete the space in the URLs.)
For now, I'll take you at your word that you're not part of that and are acting with the integrity one would expect of a former naval officer.
However, Wiki has no authority in the real world. People consult it for information, but since anyone can edit it, there's no way to assure its accuracy, and in fact, a lot of it is incomplete, biased, or just plain wrong. A court, on the other hand, is an institution of civil society that does have quite a bit of authority, and a California court says Barrett is "biased and unworthy of credibility." For a court to go out of its way to say that about a litigant is unusual and significant, and I'd assume a former military officer would be more likely to respect that judgment than a crowd-sourced opinion on Wikipedia.
Also, as I pointed out above, according to WP:V, "Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer." Barrett is a self-published source and a well-known (relatively speaking) writer; consequently, QW is, according to Wiki's own standards, inadmissible.
Therefore, I can't agree to using QW as a source. But again, since it's primarily opinion rather than reporting, I don't see that it's necessary. My recollection is that you used it only once in the earlier version, so I'm sure you can find a way around it.
Caton's story is inextricably linked with Cansema (as are the two articles here), and Hurley's book apparently attempts to portray them both as dangerous frauds. Since many people don't believe that, a book representing the opposite viewpoint should be included. However, you can use a title specific to escharotics rather than alt-cancer treatments in general: The Value Of Escharotics, by Perry Nichols, MD. An article about him appears in the May 2004 issue of Dermatology Times (seems to be a problem accessing it; it's also available at http://www.whale .to/a/nichol6.html [another blocked site--delete the space]). Perry built a clinic where escharotics were used from 1911 to its closure in 1956, 31 years after his death.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by posting a proposed template. If you're going to do a draft of the new article, go ahead. If it's just going to be the outline you indicated above, I don't see any point--it would be easier to just reconcile the two versions we've already got. 96.237.170.36 ( talk) 14:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Recommend including comments about Greg's current wife and business partner, Cathyrn Caton, ND. She is featured in issues relating to his business and is still operating his business in Ecuador. In regards to his grandparents, parents or minor children - they should be referenced for completeness in a manner which adheres to WP:BLP. It is WP:REL to include immediate family members as they related to information about an individual's life. Jettparmer ( talk) 15:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Let's hope that edit wars over this article can be avoided in the future. Now the article seems more in line with Wiki standards. So it's just a little extra push now, such as rewriting the lead, and the disclaimers at the top can be removed? -- Dyuku ( talk) 21:29, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Recent edits have indicated that Caton has completed his term in prison or been released on appeal. We need good citations on this, referencing the self published Meditopia.org is unverifiable. Jettparmer ( talk) 21:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Updated with link showing intervieww with Greg Caton and Dr. Oz. Caton remains at large selling his bogus cancer curse. Jettparmer ( talk) 14:30, 12 May 2017 (UTC)