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The contents of the Roundup page were merged into Glyphosate on 26 August, 2012. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
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I introduced into the Lead a summary of the Lawsuits section of the article per WP:LEAD. @ Bon courage I was editing the text you reverted as I agree it was too detailed before. Hope you agree it is better now. If not let me know and I will self-revert so that we can figure it out. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 14:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Glyphosate-based products, particularly Monsanto's Roundup, have been the focus of substantial legal challenges. Approximately 165,000 claims have been filed, primarily accusing Roundup of causing cancer. Bayer, which acquired Monsanto in 2018, has settled many claims, paying billions in damages, but more than 50,000 cases are still pending as of 2023.
Bayer ordered to pay $1.56 billion in latest US trial loss over Roundup weedkillerNovember 20, 2023 [3]
I think you should read the article first rather than just the title← more bad faith falsity I see. I think since this appears to be trolling I shall WP:DENY. Bon courage ( talk) 14:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of U.S. agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018.
In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $9.6 billion but failed to get a settlement covering future cases. More than 50,000 claims remain pending.
Like most plaintiffs in Roundup lawsuits, Jones alleged that the product caused him to develop a form of cancer called non-Hodgkin lymphoma.
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018. In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $10.9 billion. Around 50,000 claims remain pending, according to regulatory filings.
Bon courage ( talk) 17:08, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Before its recent string of losses, which produced verdicts against the company totaling more than $2 billion, Bayer had won nine consecutive trials, meaning it has now won 10 of the last 15 trials. Further cases are expected to be tried in the coming year.
Yale University's guide to comparative literature lists newspaper articles as both primary and secondary sources, depending on whether they contain an interpretation of primary source material. We obviously fall into the secondary category here as those articles are an interpretation of the verdict (the primary source). {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 16:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The section should be removed. The lawsuits are regarding the brand, Roundup, and specific companies that make the formulation. This article is about a specific chemical, not the brand. It's very much a WP:DUE violation. Silver seren C 21:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The “Roundup” Controversy: Glyphosate Litigation, Non- Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, And Lessons For Toxics Regulation Going Forward[8] by "Professor Watnick, Professor and Chair of the Department of Law at the Zicklin School, is an expert on the regulation of toxic substances to protect human health" [9]. The litigation was entirely centered around the specific ingredient Glyphosate in RoundUp and not covering this would be entirely WP:UNDUE {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 22:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
it's all about legal cases concerning a brand of glyphosate, coming from a single company. It's really not about glyphosate as a generic compound.
Bayer has paid out over $9.6 billion in judgements and settlementsthis is incorrect/imprecise by a wide margin. Bayer has paid much more than that.
In the past two months, in four separate cases, juries have awarded more than $2 billion in damages to a handful of roughly 50,000 claims that weren’t covered by the 2020 settlement. The $10 billion agreement is one of the largest in history.[17] 9.6B$ is how much Bayer has paid in one single settlement in 2020. In the last few months alone they paid 2B$ more (See also [18])
Bayer has also won at least 10 cases, successfully arguing that their glyphosate-based herbicides were not responsible for the plaintiff's cancerthis is WP:UNDUE weight and a violation of WP:NPOV. We are focusing on 10 positive cases out of almost 200.000. Bayer has settled/lost most of them with the largest monetary damages in Pharma history. This paints a rosy picture where there clearly isn't one. In over 100.000 cases Monstanto/Bayer has chosen to settle the matter out of court or has failed to prove in court that glyphosate does not cause cancer being forced to pay billions because of this.
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018. In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $10.9 billion. Around 50,000 claims remain pending, according to regulatory filings.Reuters
In the past two months, in four separate cases, juries have awarded more than $2 billion in damages to a handful of roughly 50,000 claims that weren’t covered by the 2020 settlement. The $10 billion agreement is one of the largest in history . Bayer has set aside an additional $6 billion, which the company has said is enough to cover pending lawsuits as well as potential future ones. But analysts and investors worry Bayer could be on the hook for billions more, threatening the 160-year-old company’s future.New York Times
Bayer is currently facing about 50,000 Roundup lawsuits, even after agreeing in 2020 to pay nearly $10 billion to settle nearly 125,000 then-existing claims.Legal Examiner
a short and dismissive edit summary← did you not see the fuller explanation posted to the talk page (just above)? I commend it to you. (BTW, I notice STONEWALLing is defined on Wikipedia as "repeatedly pushing a viewpoint with which the consensus of the community clearly does not agree, effectively preventing a policy-based resolution." You either need to strike that (in my view backwards) accusation or raise it at an appropriate Wikipedia venue (ANI, AE ... ) with supporting evidence.) Bon courage ( talk) 15:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
Does the "Advertising controversies" need to be dropped? Bon courage ( talk) 17:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
According to the complaint, tests from an independent laboratory found the amount of glyphosate in Nature Valley products was 0.45 parts per million. EPA standards allow for 30 parts per million in grains.KoA ( talk) 17:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
I propose merging Glyphosate-based herbicides into Glyphosate. The two pages have a total overlap and maintaining both is extremely challenging. Glyphosate Herbicides are the main use of Glyphosate so a sub-section there would suffice plus merging most of the rest. We also have Roundup (herbicide) that can accomodate some specific content on that specific product (although it should probably be merged as well as Roundup=Main Glyphosate-based herbicide=Glyphosate in a bottle). {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 14:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
The primary difference among the many available glyphosate products is the surfactant mixture found in the formulated product. Surfactants enhance the retention and absorption of glyphosate by plants contacted by the spray solution.[ [22]]. You basically just change the color of the box and the wrapping but it is always just glyphosate. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 10:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
the one and only active ingredient.
RoundUp is a brand name that refers to multiple products that have only one thing in common: they contain Glyphosate.No pages say that because in addition to what Tryptofish said, that statement is objectively not accurate as already discussed, even in my comment you are replying to. Repeating the claim does not make it any truer. That is why everyone else has been discussing how the formulations and different active ingredients make targeting/merges more complicated than depicted. KoA ( talk) 16:26, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
that statement is objectively not accuratewhat evidence do you have of this? Bayer says:
glyphosate, the active ingredient in most Roundup® brand herbicides and other weed-control products.[26]. The only reason they say "most" is due to the ongoing litigation:
To further reduce future litigation risk, we have transitioned the manufacturing of our glyphosate products for the U.S. residential L&G market to new formulations that have different active ingredients.[27]. In the rest of the world Bayer is very clear that Roundup is Glyphosate with surfactants:
Roundup is the total systemic foliar herbicide, the combination of the active ingredient (glyphosate), in its salified form, with surfactants and inert agents specific for each type of formulation, available in 3 different formulationstranslated from Bayer's Italian Website [28] {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 23:51, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
The main active ingredient of Roundup is the isopropylamine salt of glyphosate. Another ingredient of Roundup is the surfactant POEA (polyethoxylated tallow amine).Only a small subset of production and only in the US is not glyphosate based. And that specific production was specifically created to try and limit glyphosate litigation. If "Roundup≠glyphosate" was true the Roundup page would not exist as it would just be a generic herbicide brand with nothing notable about it. In any case: this merge proposal is about the Glyphosate and the Glyphosate-based herbicides articles. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 17:24, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/
Abstract
Glyphosate, a non-selective systemic biocide with broad-spectrum activity, is the most widely used herbicide in the world. It can persist in the environment for days or months, and its intensive and large-scale use can constitute a major environmental and health problem. In this systematic review, we investigate the current state of our knowledge related to the effects of this pesticide on the nervous system of various animal species and humans. The information provided indicates that exposure to glyphosate or its commercial formulations induces several neurotoxic effects. It has been shown that exposure to this pesticide during the early stages of life can seriously affect normal cell development by deregulating some of the signaling pathways involved in this process, leading to alterations in differentiation, neuronal growth, and myelination. Glyphosate also seems to exert a significant toxic effect on neurotransmission and to induce oxidative stress, neuroinflammation and mitochondrial dysfunction, processes that lead to neuronal death due to autophagy, necrosis, or apoptosis, as well as the appearance of behavioral and motor disorders. The doses of glyphosate that produce these neurotoxic effects vary widely but are lower than the limits set by regulatory agencies. Although there are important discrepancies between the analyzed findings, it is unequivocal that exposure to glyphosate produces important alterations in the structure and function of the nervous system of humans, rodents, fish, and invertebrates. 172.58.56.248 ( talk) 01:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
Stauffer Chemical patented the agent as a chemical chelator - the source listed does not support that claim see also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132386/ 156.146.156.168 ( talk) 19:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Glyphosate article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20Auto-archiving period: 6 months |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Roundup page were merged into Glyphosate on 26 August, 2012. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
I introduced into the Lead a summary of the Lawsuits section of the article per WP:LEAD. @ Bon courage I was editing the text you reverted as I agree it was too detailed before. Hope you agree it is better now. If not let me know and I will self-revert so that we can figure it out. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 14:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Glyphosate-based products, particularly Monsanto's Roundup, have been the focus of substantial legal challenges. Approximately 165,000 claims have been filed, primarily accusing Roundup of causing cancer. Bayer, which acquired Monsanto in 2018, has settled many claims, paying billions in damages, but more than 50,000 cases are still pending as of 2023.
Bayer ordered to pay $1.56 billion in latest US trial loss over Roundup weedkillerNovember 20, 2023 [3]
I think you should read the article first rather than just the title← more bad faith falsity I see. I think since this appears to be trolling I shall WP:DENY. Bon courage ( talk) 14:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of U.S. agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018.
In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $9.6 billion but failed to get a settlement covering future cases. More than 50,000 claims remain pending.
Like most plaintiffs in Roundup lawsuits, Jones alleged that the product caused him to develop a form of cancer called non-Hodgkin lymphoma.
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018. In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $10.9 billion. Around 50,000 claims remain pending, according to regulatory filings.
Bon courage ( talk) 17:08, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Before its recent string of losses, which produced verdicts against the company totaling more than $2 billion, Bayer had won nine consecutive trials, meaning it has now won 10 of the last 15 trials. Further cases are expected to be tried in the coming year.
Yale University's guide to comparative literature lists newspaper articles as both primary and secondary sources, depending on whether they contain an interpretation of primary source material. We obviously fall into the secondary category here as those articles are an interpretation of the verdict (the primary source). {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 16:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The section should be removed. The lawsuits are regarding the brand, Roundup, and specific companies that make the formulation. This article is about a specific chemical, not the brand. It's very much a WP:DUE violation. Silver seren C 21:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The “Roundup” Controversy: Glyphosate Litigation, Non- Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, And Lessons For Toxics Regulation Going Forward[8] by "Professor Watnick, Professor and Chair of the Department of Law at the Zicklin School, is an expert on the regulation of toxic substances to protect human health" [9]. The litigation was entirely centered around the specific ingredient Glyphosate in RoundUp and not covering this would be entirely WP:UNDUE {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 22:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
it's all about legal cases concerning a brand of glyphosate, coming from a single company. It's really not about glyphosate as a generic compound.
Bayer has paid out over $9.6 billion in judgements and settlementsthis is incorrect/imprecise by a wide margin. Bayer has paid much more than that.
In the past two months, in four separate cases, juries have awarded more than $2 billion in damages to a handful of roughly 50,000 claims that weren’t covered by the 2020 settlement. The $10 billion agreement is one of the largest in history.[17] 9.6B$ is how much Bayer has paid in one single settlement in 2020. In the last few months alone they paid 2B$ more (See also [18])
Bayer has also won at least 10 cases, successfully arguing that their glyphosate-based herbicides were not responsible for the plaintiff's cancerthis is WP:UNDUE weight and a violation of WP:NPOV. We are focusing on 10 positive cases out of almost 200.000. Bayer has settled/lost most of them with the largest monetary damages in Pharma history. This paints a rosy picture where there clearly isn't one. In over 100.000 cases Monstanto/Bayer has chosen to settle the matter out of court or has failed to prove in court that glyphosate does not cause cancer being forced to pay billions because of this.
Around 165,000 claims have been made against the company for personal injuries allegedly caused by Roundup, which Bayer acquired as part of its $63 billion purchase of agrochemical company Monsanto in 2018. In 2020, Bayer settled most of the then-pending Roundup cases for up to $10.9 billion. Around 50,000 claims remain pending, according to regulatory filings.Reuters
In the past two months, in four separate cases, juries have awarded more than $2 billion in damages to a handful of roughly 50,000 claims that weren’t covered by the 2020 settlement. The $10 billion agreement is one of the largest in history . Bayer has set aside an additional $6 billion, which the company has said is enough to cover pending lawsuits as well as potential future ones. But analysts and investors worry Bayer could be on the hook for billions more, threatening the 160-year-old company’s future.New York Times
Bayer is currently facing about 50,000 Roundup lawsuits, even after agreeing in 2020 to pay nearly $10 billion to settle nearly 125,000 then-existing claims.Legal Examiner
a short and dismissive edit summary← did you not see the fuller explanation posted to the talk page (just above)? I commend it to you. (BTW, I notice STONEWALLing is defined on Wikipedia as "repeatedly pushing a viewpoint with which the consensus of the community clearly does not agree, effectively preventing a policy-based resolution." You either need to strike that (in my view backwards) accusation or raise it at an appropriate Wikipedia venue (ANI, AE ... ) with supporting evidence.) Bon courage ( talk) 15:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
Does the "Advertising controversies" need to be dropped? Bon courage ( talk) 17:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
According to the complaint, tests from an independent laboratory found the amount of glyphosate in Nature Valley products was 0.45 parts per million. EPA standards allow for 30 parts per million in grains.KoA ( talk) 17:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
I propose merging Glyphosate-based herbicides into Glyphosate. The two pages have a total overlap and maintaining both is extremely challenging. Glyphosate Herbicides are the main use of Glyphosate so a sub-section there would suffice plus merging most of the rest. We also have Roundup (herbicide) that can accomodate some specific content on that specific product (although it should probably be merged as well as Roundup=Main Glyphosate-based herbicide=Glyphosate in a bottle). {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 14:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
The primary difference among the many available glyphosate products is the surfactant mixture found in the formulated product. Surfactants enhance the retention and absorption of glyphosate by plants contacted by the spray solution.[ [22]]. You basically just change the color of the box and the wrapping but it is always just glyphosate. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 10:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
the one and only active ingredient.
RoundUp is a brand name that refers to multiple products that have only one thing in common: they contain Glyphosate.No pages say that because in addition to what Tryptofish said, that statement is objectively not accurate as already discussed, even in my comment you are replying to. Repeating the claim does not make it any truer. That is why everyone else has been discussing how the formulations and different active ingredients make targeting/merges more complicated than depicted. KoA ( talk) 16:26, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
that statement is objectively not accuratewhat evidence do you have of this? Bayer says:
glyphosate, the active ingredient in most Roundup® brand herbicides and other weed-control products.[26]. The only reason they say "most" is due to the ongoing litigation:
To further reduce future litigation risk, we have transitioned the manufacturing of our glyphosate products for the U.S. residential L&G market to new formulations that have different active ingredients.[27]. In the rest of the world Bayer is very clear that Roundup is Glyphosate with surfactants:
Roundup is the total systemic foliar herbicide, the combination of the active ingredient (glyphosate), in its salified form, with surfactants and inert agents specific for each type of formulation, available in 3 different formulationstranslated from Bayer's Italian Website [28] {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 23:51, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
The main active ingredient of Roundup is the isopropylamine salt of glyphosate. Another ingredient of Roundup is the surfactant POEA (polyethoxylated tallow amine).Only a small subset of production and only in the US is not glyphosate based. And that specific production was specifically created to try and limit glyphosate litigation. If "Roundup≠glyphosate" was true the Roundup page would not exist as it would just be a generic herbicide brand with nothing notable about it. In any case: this merge proposal is about the Glyphosate and the Glyphosate-based herbicides articles. {{u| Gtoffoletto}} talk 17:24, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/
Abstract
Glyphosate, a non-selective systemic biocide with broad-spectrum activity, is the most widely used herbicide in the world. It can persist in the environment for days or months, and its intensive and large-scale use can constitute a major environmental and health problem. In this systematic review, we investigate the current state of our knowledge related to the effects of this pesticide on the nervous system of various animal species and humans. The information provided indicates that exposure to glyphosate or its commercial formulations induces several neurotoxic effects. It has been shown that exposure to this pesticide during the early stages of life can seriously affect normal cell development by deregulating some of the signaling pathways involved in this process, leading to alterations in differentiation, neuronal growth, and myelination. Glyphosate also seems to exert a significant toxic effect on neurotransmission and to induce oxidative stress, neuroinflammation and mitochondrial dysfunction, processes that lead to neuronal death due to autophagy, necrosis, or apoptosis, as well as the appearance of behavioral and motor disorders. The doses of glyphosate that produce these neurotoxic effects vary widely but are lower than the limits set by regulatory agencies. Although there are important discrepancies between the analyzed findings, it is unequivocal that exposure to glyphosate produces important alterations in the structure and function of the nervous system of humans, rodents, fish, and invertebrates. 172.58.56.248 ( talk) 01:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
Stauffer Chemical patented the agent as a chemical chelator - the source listed does not support that claim see also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132386/ 156.146.156.168 ( talk) 19:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)