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Why is Albert Einstein on this page? This page is about Ethnic Germans. Albert Einstein was an Ethnic Jew. He's also on the Jewish American page of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pietervhuis ( talk • contribs) 16:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
The confusion here is between religion, ethnicity, and nationality. What the identifier "Jew" means in this category is often ambiguous, even amongst Jews themselves. If we asked Einstein during his life, his answer would certainly have change. What we know for sure is that he renounced his German identity long before emigrating to the US. However, he also accepted a chair in Berlin during the beginning of WW2. The most important thing to remember about German identity is that it existed long before the 19th century, and esp. before the Great War and WW2.
Einstein was of ethnic Jewish identity, German (then US) nationality, and of no verifiable religion. It is possible to be Jewish by ethnicity and not by religion, considering many ethnic Jews don't profess any and some have even adopted Christianity (Benjamin Disraeli, David Ricardo, etc.). Being Jewish is a unique overlap of religious and ethnic identity. There are far better candidates to exemplify ethnic Germans of US nationality. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
208.102.241.133 (
talk) 07:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Einstein was born in Ulm (today Baden-Wuertemberg), he had a German passport and was a German speaker. So why shouldnt he be counted as German American? You dont distinguish the English into Protestant-English-Americans and Catholic-English-Americans. Regligion doesnt play a role here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.57.11.46 ( talk) 00:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Einstein was not ethnically german therefore he is not a german-american. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.195.132 ( talk) 21:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
German Americans are citizens of the United States of ethnic German ancestry (first line of the German American article). Someone born in Germany is a German. Einstein was born in Germany AND he was a Jew. That makes him a Ashkenazi Jew or a German Jew.
Einsteins Citizenship: Germany (1879–96, 1914–33) Switzerland (1901–55) United States (1940–55)
Einstein became a citizen of the United States in 1940 and remained there the rest of his life, although he retained his Swiss citizenship. That makes him an American with German ethnicity or a German American. He was a German American. Chase I ( talk)
IMHO Einstein alone doesn't worth this discussion, but excluding Jewish Germans of this article would be considered extremely racist in today Germany! Most "German" immigrants to the US came before there was any so called "German" nation state (1871), so the definition must be by language and culture. Otherwise it's like saying Canadian and Mexican Aborigines are not American Indians, just because the US monopolized the term "American" after revolution.
Ashkenazi Jew is somehow misleading, because this is mainly a religious school in contrast to Sephardim and the majority of them lived in Eastern Europe, having a proper culture based on orthodox Judaism, Yiddish language and mostly living in homogeneous and isolated settlements like Shtetls. Saying this, I must admit that IMHO the Yiddish language (= "jidisch taitsch" = "Jüdisch-Deutsch") is intelligible with Standard German, fare more than Low German, Dutch or Swiss German idioms, just the culture is apart. (Anyway I wouldn't have a problem calling them "German", but I doubt they would appreciate this ;-)
But the so called "West Jews" like Einstein, Kurt Weill or Heinrich Heine were also Ashkenazim but assimilated into German culture (often even heavily patriotic, just compare the roles of Walther Rathenau or Fritz Haber in WWI or notorious Erhard Milch in WWII) ! Ironically even Theodor Herzl the inventor of Zionism, wanted German to become the language of Israel, no joke! (And the Israeli legal system was heavily influenced by Yekke lawers and judges) -- Popolfi ( talk) 20:33, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
@Pietervhuis I know what you mean but you could be misunderstood easily. To write Einstein was a Jew but not a German is racist. Could have been a quotation from Hitler if you ask me. He was born in Germany, lived many years in Germany with a German passport and spoke German. He was for sure even more German than American if you want to write about the ethnic stuff ! -- Vicente2782 ( talk) 14:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Are not German Americans 2nd or 3rd generation Americans. We sorta call those who where born in foreign nations like Armenia or Germany, Germans and Armenians. Armenian Americans are the offspring and such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.253.134 ( talk) 03:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
This is the way NAZIS think: that a Jew cannot be German. Religion is not everything: a German can be Protestant, Catholic, Jew or whatever.-- 88.18.151.15 ( talk) 02:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Why is somebody a Nazi if he thinks that Jews are not Germans???? German-Americans are American citizens who are of German ETHNIC origin. If you speak German as mother language, and if you are born in Germany and even if you hold German citizenship that does not make you ETHNIC German! A Jew (and not Jews only, any other ethnic group) can be a member of German nation, but cannot be an ethnic German...he is of different descent, of different cultural background, and thus cannot be a member of any other ethnic group but his...What if somebody who is for example, a Serb born in Germany, who has Serbian parents, but speaks rubish Serbian, and has only German passport, emigrates to USA? Is he regarded as German-American?? I don't think so...And i feel sick when I see people who are acting like some great "liberals" and "anti-fascist" ...-- Vule91 ( talk) 15:17, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The last paragraph in this section is confusing in its discussion about post-WWII immigrants. I think it's trying to say that the most recent immigrants from Germany have come because of professional work reasons, since Germany is no longer a place many people are trying to migrate from. It's confusing enough that I don't want to guess, however.
Also, that theory doesn't cover the post-war immigration of German ethnic refugees from Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union who were expelled by nations who had suffered under Nazi invasion and occupation. Enough Danouswabians immigrated from Hungary in the post-war years, for instance, to create cultural centers in cities such as Trenton, NJ and others.-- Parkwells ( talk) 22:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
This section claims Eisenhower and Hoover were of "primarily German ancestry", but doesn't offer sources or much evidence for the claim. Eisenhower's mother's maiden name was Stover and she was born in VA to Elizabeth Link and Simon Stover, both of whose names may also be of English ancestry. His father's family immigrated to the US in the 18th c., so there were many opportunities through the generations for Eisenhauer/Eisenhower marriages to spouses of other than German backgrounds. My German ancestors in NY started marrying out in the 1820s.-- Parkwells ( talk) 22:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The Richard Nixon reference in the article is interesting. Milhaus sounds German, but I thought that Nixon claimed Irish ancestry through a Quaker called Milhous who lived in the north of Ireland in the eighteenth century. But that Mr Milhous could of course have been of German origin.
I put a piece in the Irish American discussion about the relative paucity of German American Presidents in the light of the large number of Presidents claiming Irish ancestry, and how this was surprising considering that there are more German Americans than Irish Americans. It was deleted.
Came upon this while looking for something else, it's available on-line (choose the PDF version, the text version is a not-too-useful scan). The German soldier in the wars of the United States - by Rosengarten, J. G. (1835-1921), published 1886. Sorry to post to the article talk page rather than the correct place, but I'm new and still feeling my way around. Regards, 24.178.228.14 ( talk) 17:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
While reverting recent changes to delete Albert Einstein, a recently added photo of Paris Hilton was collateral. NOTE: Paris Hilton has German heritage, so she could go back.
Re the edit comment about "Ashkenazi Jew," note that "Ashkenaz is the Medieval Hebrew name for the region which later formed the country of Germany. Thus Ashkenazi Jews are literally 'German Jews.'"
This page has before needed protection. Hopefully that will not be necessary again. Proofreader77 ( talk) 19:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at the article now, and it seems like the bottom of it (including the sources) was chopped off, and the citation links don't go anywhere. I wouldn't want to mess with anything, but if this was someone's mistake or an intentional change, where can I find the original version or can someone fix this one?
71.238.25.46 ( talk) 14:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I was just looking at this article because we've got a discussion going on over at Britons with Latin American ancestry about who counts as British (some editors are arguing that permanent residency in the UK is sufficient, which I disagree with, arguing instead that the person needs to be a citizen, or at least describe themself as British, but that's beside the point). Anyway, I wondered what the situation was on a more-developed article such as this, but there seems to be an inconsistency. In the introduction, it states "German Americans are citizens of the United States of ethnic German ancestry", but then the 50,764,352 population figure seems to include 271,583 people who are not American citizens. Cordless Larry ( talk) 11:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
The most-known German American is Johnny Weissmüller, alias Tarzan. Therefore he should be included in the main box. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.3.74.229 ( talk • contribs) 13:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Surname sounded German, so I thought he's maybe German...-- Vule91 ( talk) 20:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Please don't include the Rockerfellers and Elvis Presley as German-Americans in the info box. Their families have been living in the Americas for centuries. It's too distant to count anymore to consider them ethnically "German" and their ancestors would have intermarried with other ethnic groups during that time. I think Elvis Presley's family mostly has Scottish and Cherokee ancestry. Their families has nothing to do with modern Germany anymore. In my opinion, the only people that should count as German Americans is if their families recently immigrated to the US (ie 1st, 2nd, or maybe 3rd generation German Americans) or they are German immigrants themselves like actress Kristen Dunst, Albert Einstein, President Eisenhower, Babe Ruth, Admiral Nimitz, General Pershing, actress Marlena Dietrich, General Franz Sigel, General Spaatz, actor Eric Braeden, and architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. -- Pilot expert ( talk) 18:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
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I removed the statement that the brewer "in the family still today", for two reasons. First, it has been a publicly traded corporation for decades. The Busches remained substantial stockholders, officers, board members of the corporation but this is not quite the same as a privately held company under family control. Second and perhaps more to the point, A-B has announced its intention to merge with another giant corporation. (See article on Anheuser Busch.) If the deal goes through, "in the family" will no longer be at all applicable. Publius3 ( talk) 05:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Bruce Willis and Clark Gable, despite their English American names (and paternal ancestries), are being labelled as German Americans because their mothers were German and German-Irish American respectively. In the absence of sources where they specifically identify themselves as German Americans, either they should be excluded, or they should be labelled as English and/or Irish Americans as well, to avoid obvious ethnic bias. 92.1.160.100 ( talk) 16:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate a quick show of hands at Talk:List of German Americans#Jews?, I don't want to revert the user a second time without a clearer consensus. Thanks, Amalthea 01:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
At the moment it reads German American (adjective). Surely, it should read German Americans (noun)? The article itself starts - quite correctly - with the noun. Norvo ( talk) 01:51, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Are there not any women in America of German ancestry? I can think of many, starting with Doris Day, Marlene Dietrich, Kim Basinger.-- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 06:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
The footnote from the History of the Jamestown Settlement (1607-1699) page http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/first_dutchmen_of_america.htm States - The “Dutchmen” were probably Netherlanders although there is a slight chance they may have been German speakers from elsewhere. If someone has a source showing the identity of the Dutchmen to in fact be German speakers they can undo my edit. Nitpyck ( talk) 22:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
"There have been two American presidents whose fathers were of German descent, Dwight Eisenhower (original family name Eisenhauer) and Herbert Hoover (original family name Huber)."
Is this really the best we can get? Why should Hoover and Eisenhower be representatives of the German-American subnation when there's almost nothing indicating they are even known as "German-Americans?" It simply doesn't make sense to edit war over this. There are so many better, sourcable examples. Bulldog123 04:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems somewhat inappropriate to describe Wernher von Braun as one of those who made an "intellectual" contribution. "Scientific" would be more accurate. Sca ( talk) 19:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
[2] -- Epeefleche ( talk) 16:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This article is written like all German Americans are like Germans and they are in the United States like immigrants, because we ("Germans") are all better than those Americans because we are Germans. There is subtle superiority, i'm different, i'm german, i'm not american tendency happening in this article. German Americans are Americans. Most of them lost their german identity and disproportianally most of them will not be regarded or cared if they are German in Germany. German Americans are different than Germans except the ones that actually immigrated to the USA recently like the 2000s or 1990s. Be proud to be American. German is like any other ethnic group. When I see Americans in the US, i can't tell a person is German until they speak the german language, and then they will believe, until then they are all Cowboy americans just like any other immigrant groups in the US like irish, english, mexican. German-American loyalty is to the US, they are identified as americans that drinks coke and eat burger. Don't get so obsessed on being german. adolf hitler is "austrian" by the way not german born. Unless you are born in Germany and speak the german language, identify with the german culture and watch german tv, you won't likely be considered German in Germany. Just my opinion. 97.124.255.168 ( talk) 02:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
You (rjensen) said in your edit summary here: "everything is cited; please read the bibliography before complaining)"
That statement is factually incorrect:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:German Americans/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
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I haven't had time to closely read the entire article, but it is in error where it says Theodore Roosevelt referred to German Americans as "hyphenated Americans." I am graduate student in journalism now finishing a history of German-language newspapers in the United States. My sources on the WWI period all agree it was Woodrow Wilson who used "hyphenated Americans" in reference to German Americans. Theodore Roosevelt was no fan of German Americans, but it was Wilson -- who was president during WWI -- who used that phrase. Nebraska Lola 06:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC) Isn't it true that German Americans are not white? For instance, though they are pale-skinned and have clean features, aren't they "beyond white", in the sense of being further beyond racial classifications? Isn't it an insult to people of Germanic origins to categorize them with Irish people, for instance? I vote that we categorize German-Americans are sur-white, beyond white, because they cannot be held back by definitions, and thus transcend the logic of caterogization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:15, 11 November 2015 (UTC). Substituted at 20:36, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
This section of the wiki seems to be based on no actual data. Nothing but a guess, an assumption that only the English will claim "American". Ive been around loads of people of different ancestries who refer to themselves as solely American including African Americans. Lots of people who select this option are also either making a statement or so many ancestries by now that they no longer feel ties to just one. Others could be a single ancestry or two with no cultural ties to the nation their ancestors came from so they feel "American". The assumption that this is proof of a larger English number seems like a total stretch to me especially considering other ethnic groups have also been here since the colonial days and after including Mexicans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:24C8:CE1D:D0D0:8CBA ( talk) 13:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I innitially thought the English number was lower but after doing some research I now know the English are more than likely still the largest. The same thing seems to have happened in Australia. Newer immigrants are likely to use hyphens while the older stock such as the English just go by "Australian".
How is the English American number so low, when literally all of the German American examples (Actors, entertainers etc) on this page also have either English, Scottish, Irish, or Welsh ancestry? Sometimes multiple British ancestries? That right there alone should make me people question the legitimacy of the number. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:391E:4A01:A34F:8FCB ( talk) 03:35, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
But see thats what I don't get. Usualy the people who claim the German ancestry have some miniscule ancestry of it making it even less "distinct" than the British isles ancestries (although genetically Germans aren't that different from the British) German-Americans largely blended in and assimilated with the Anglo-American WASP population pretty easily which resulted in a lot of them having their German ancestry diluted by British Americans. Take Brad Pitt for example, he's one of the Americans who claims German ancestry but a look at his family tree reveals that he's about 1/512 German the rest of his ancestors being British isles descended (English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh). This happened to a large portion of Americans. Logically the numbers should be as high, but I guess thats the problem with self identification, people decide what they want to identify with regardless of what they are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:391E:4A01:A34F:8FCB ( talk) 06:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Actually there's no way to tell just how much German Brad Pitt is. You're forgetting that most German immigrants changed their surnames. So just because one of Brad Pitt's ancestors may have an Anglo surname doesn't make that ancestor not a German themselves. In my honest opinion (this coming from someone who has been in both Britain & Germany) Pitt looks far more German than he does British. Ive come across many similar to him in Germany, none in Britain. He also has what most anthropologist call a "Faelid" bone structure. Which is apparently most common in Germany & Netherlands, less common in Britain. Google Faelid, a lot of them look similar to Pitt like Charlie Sheerer. The same thing you say about the Germans is the same thing that can be said about the British - Most British Americans also have atleast one German ancestor. I don't think people realize that the English although a very large population in the 1700s they only numbered at around 1 million. Do you know how large our population has gotten since then? a large chunk of our current White population came from immigration, not baby making. Thus I don't think the number is flawed at all. On the contrary I think the number for German Americans should be even higher. Ive even heard more Blacks claiming to have German ancestors over English or Scottish. There were MANY MANY Germans. And unless you're some expert on phenotypes you won't be able to know because surnames sure aren't useful proof for ancestry as even African Americans have Anglo surnames. How many of the Smiths in America actually used to be Schmidt instead? So just because someone has an Anglo surnames does not mean they're British or not German. Also just a little of my two cents, ive been throughout many states and I have to say White Americans as a whole look a lot more German than they do British. Its clear the German impact helped distinquish White American phenotypes from the other Anglosphere nations. Unlike the Australians, Americans don't look totally British, but I do see common American faces throughout Germany. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jessiluvv (
talk •
contribs) 03:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Sorry to burst your bubble but there IS a way to tell how much German Brad Pitt is. We've had his official documents for a while now. His Germany ancestry is miniscule. Based on his public ancestry records he had far more English ancestors than any other. Noone is going by surnames. They're going by census reports, where the ancestors came from. Thats how we know Brad Pitt is majority English. You're fogetting that there are millions of English and British Americans in general. Any German ancestor is more than likely to intermarry with a Brit. That offspring will also more than likely intermarry with a Brit. Thus weakening the German lineage with each generation. Which is exactly what happened with a lot of German Americans. Usually the German element in most German Americans is weaker than that of English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmen2013 ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
The bizarre lead mentions Einstein setting intellectual landmarks... correct, long before he retired in America becoming a dual citizen in his 60's, having left Nazi Germany. No one associates Einstein with America (bar living there in old age)...as after Germany its then to a much lesser degree Switzerland. The loose reference here in the lead lacks credibiity. Its like Iceland having a section on Bobby Fisher as a chess champion as he adopted citizenship in his latter years. The others in the section ARE noted German-Americans namely Babe Ruth, Jack Nicklaus, Leo DiCaprio.. they are Americans of German descent who have been influential while under that label. Yes with Einstein being German and adopting American citizenship in old age, that merits a bullet point in a German-American list, but thats it. BudSipkiss ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC).
How RACIST are some people: KISSINGER and EINSTEIN are two German-Americans. They were/are Germans and Jews. Only the Nazis think that Einstein and Kissinger cannot be German because of their religion.-- 83.63.180.178 ( talk) 23:33, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
It's pretty clear, in my opinion, that Einstein's presence in this article is justifiable. I don't think anyone is attempting to claim that Einstein was more American than German, or that it is to America that he owes his having been able to achieve such importance in the scientific community. This article concerns all citizens of the United States who also happened to be of German ancestry, or who held both U.S. and German citizenship. By law and under any international standard, Einstein was a German-American individual, even if only for part of his life. It is utterly irrelevant whether he became a German American later in his life, or whether his grandest accomplishments occurred while he was in another country, or whether he came to the United States merely fleeing Nazi Germany or seeking to become an American citizen. The fact remains, he did become an American citizen, and having been born in Germany, that made him a German American. As for his notability as a German American, it is true that he became a Nobel Laureate well before he came to the U.S., but that doesn't mean that he wasn't a notable German-born citizen of the United States. While living in the U.S., he became active in U.S. political and social affairs. Even if he hadn't already been a famous scientist by the time he had come to the U.S., he would have secured a place in this nation's history for what he did when he was here (which, granted, he might not been able to do without his fame as a scientist). All in all, I don't see the point of BudSipkiss. Yes, Einstein's popularity arises more from what he did while he was in Europe than from what he did in the United States, but that doesn't make him any less American than he was when he became a U.S. citizen. He was a German-American and he was notable, therefore I don't see any reason to take him out of this article.-- AndresTM ( talk) 20:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
added Marlene Dietrich · Wernher von Braun · Henry Kissinger. Needed more women, and more German-American immigrants.-- Work permit ( talk) 06:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
===U.S. communities with the most residents born in Germany=== The 10 U.S. communities with the highest proportion of residents born in Germany are:<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.city-data.com/top2/h49.html |title=Top 101 cities with the most residents born in Germany (population 500+) |publisher=city-data.com |accessdate=2008-08-12}}</ref>
City-Data is not a source! It has no citation. It is a message board link. Tom Nyj0127 ( talk)
References
City-Data is not a credible resource. It is a message board site. They don't provide any resource (ex. Census records) to show there is a population born in Germany in any of those towns. It has no credibility. Please don't diminish the integrity of this article by allowing shoddy information. With that being said, please don't keep putting it back up there. I have been respectful enough to give you an explanation. I'd appreciate the same. Tom Nyj0127 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC).
I replaced the two sentences removed under the "undue weight" guideline. The point is to clarify that German American contributions to the U.S. brewing industry did not begin and end in 1850 with Bud Light and Pabst Blue Ribbon. There is a bunch of *good* beer in this country too, a lot of it is microbrew, and a lot of that resulted from German influences in the mid-to-late 20th Century. By definition, the most prominent microbrewer is going to be less of a household name than Anheiser-Busch. That doesn't stop microbrew from being important, however, and I chose to mention Karl Strauss as being one of the best known and most prominant of that group. I don't feel it is "undue weight" to clarify that there is more to the German influence on American beer than "Tastes great! Less Filling!" — Rnickel ( talk) 16:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
A lot of people talk about paranoia about people saying "Jews control America", which is obviously a ridiculous antisemitic claim. However it is true that Germany is very sensitive in matters involving Jews for the obvious reason of WW2 reparations. But what is often not heard is that the majority ancestry in the US is German. Could that be a source of 'shame'? Inclusion of articles from reliable source on the matter for betterment of the article would be appreciated. -- Leladax ( talk) 17:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Most Americans have 2, 3 or more ancestry. The Problem is, the Germans. These People looking only for one ancestry in People. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.204.12 ( talk) 11:10, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Correct! And 50 Millions Americans are German Americans is a false Info, because, at least 95% Americans have two or three ancestry and not 1. Also Kevin James has two or three ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.218.8 ( talk) 23:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Alsatians who emigrated to Texas during the 1840s were French citizens ! Alsace was French since 1648 ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.141.167.99 ( talk) 07:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
The Region of Elsass-Lothringen did belong as well to France as it did to Germany regarding the historical periods. But this Article is about people with ethnic German background and even if there have been centuries where Elsass belonged to France the people who lived there where about 98% ethnic Germans until WW1. I travelled there a lot. The German history is there everypresent in the architecture. Hell even many champagne houses have German names. And clearly Alsatians are called the German sheppard not the French sheppard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.90.137 ( talk) 02:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Di caprio is listed as both german and russian. I don't know which he is but the last name does not sound like either, sounds more latin to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.18.213 ( talk) 03:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
This Article has many errors. And DiCaprio is more Russian and Italien. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.193.20 ( talk) 11:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm thinking of opening up an RfC regarding the use of ethnic group "representation" infobox images on X-American pages. It's been going on unchecked for years now and has only escalated into a competition to see who can put more famous people in their infobox (painfully exemplified by Norwegian_American). In addition to being original research - in most cases these people are not held as "quintessential examples" of that group by external sources - it's also a WP:BLP issue, as there's no evidence many of these individuals would, could, or should be identified as members of this group. That last comment may be met with responses like, "Why would anyone find offense at being called a German American?" It's not merely about finding offense but about being misrepresented. Given, I doubt leading members of the German American community would appreciate having Leonardo Dicaprio (an individual with 1/4th ethnic German heritage who doesn't speak German or seem to have much association with German culture) seated next to a more authentically German German-American like Werner von Braun -- so that's where the "offense" part might come into play. By and large though, the "finding offense" thing is irrelevant. The main point is that it's not our job as Wikipedia editors to choose who best represents members of a certain community. Right now, the infoboxes are turning into Facebook Interest groups and ethnic-pride/cultural-promotion articles. My proposal is to find consensus at RfC to simply not put any images there and have that apply to all X-American pages. There's a similar issue with population numbers (which German Americans seems to have already implemented), but I'm not going to get into that now. Anyone here would support the RfC? Bulldog123 18:34, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph in this article starts off, "None of the historical German states had overseas colonies, so not until the 1680s did the first significant groups of German immigrants arrive in the British colonies..."
First, in the article for Brandenburg-Prussia, it says this:
So not only did at least one of the princely states have colonies, the one from Brandenburg-Prussia was founded in the same year that this article says that they were emigrating to the British colonies.
Second, the year 1680 *can't be right! and it can't be 1860s either. I actually came to find information on German emigration prior to the civil war, of which there was quite a bit for a number of reasons (and I was looking for those reasons [1]... guess I'll have to keep looking).
stevendolan (whose email is at google.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.184.91 ( talk) 02:31, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
References
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Infobox_Images_for_Ethnic_Groups. Bulldog123 09:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Either the percentage numbers are wrong or the order of places 2 and 3 is. 43<44 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.189.85.244 ( talk) 23:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I do not agree that there are only very few places with German names. There are several Berlins, Frankforts, there's a Bismarck (ND), New Braunfels (TX), New Paltz (NY) etc. If we can agree that the aforementioned count as "German" place names, I would be more than happy to try and come up with a comprehensive list. -- Aquinate ( talk) 11:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Off the bat, Wikipedia lists over 20 places in the US with the name "Hamburg," over 20 with the name "Berlin," 19 with the name "Hanover," 2 Mecklenburgs, 1 Brandenburg, 1 Flensburg. Names originally from German-speaking Europe (outside modern Germany) would also include places like Carlsbad (4 in the US with Wikipedia articles), Vienna (19 places with Wikipedia articles), Strasburg (9 places with Wikipedia articles named that in the US), Zurich (4 places in the US with Wiki articles), Posen (4 Wikipedia articles), 1 Stettin, 2 Breslau, etc. In any case that hardly counts as "extremely rare!" In fact there are probably too many for a list. Udibi ( talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I am copying this from my talk page. The talk page on this article is a much more appropriate place for this discussion.
Infobox Edits |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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I encourage other editors to review and contribute. Erikeltic ( Talk) 00:09, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
You could argue that infobox images don't add anything to the article's content, but such an argument is purely academic. The reality is that we have infobox images as a tool to enhance the article; therfore, I think it makes sense to showcase the most "significant" German-Americans. Whether that number is six or fifteen is the less important issue in my opinion. The more important and more difficult question is how are we defining "significance". In my opinion, the infobox should include Rockefeller, Schurz and Mencken for different reasons. In any listing of German-Americans, John D. Rockefeller, the first American billionaire, is always listed near the top. Based on the combination of accomplishment and sheer name recognition, he should be in the infobox. Schurz and Mencken were not only very famous and accomplished men, they were German-Americans in a political sense, which is now obsolete. If I had to remove any images, I would remove Marlene Dietrich and Albert Einstein, who are more associated with the countries of their birth and also Sandra Bullock, who would be hard-pressed to make my list of the Top 100 most significant German-Americans. Vdjj1960 ( talk) 19:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
There is an urban legend that the term "Pennsylvania Dutch" comes from the Standard German word "Deutsch". The story sounds reasonable but is not true.
1. The English word "Dutch" is an old word that has Saxon roots and which shares much of its etymology with the Standard German endonym deutsch but that is not the same thing as being derived from that word. They both evolved from common roots.
2. The English word "Dutch" used to be used to refer to anyone who spoke a Germanic language. Dutch is a Germanic language, as are Pennsylvania German (aka Pennsylvania Dutch) and Standard German. At the time that these immigrants settled in Pennsylvania the term "Dutch" was a perfectly valid way to refer to them, and it was only later that meaning of Dutch narrowed to the point where it now is commonly used just to refer to Netherlanders.
3. The people who settled Pennsylvania for the most part did not speak Standard German and would not have used the word deutsch to refer to themselves. They would have used the Palatinate word deitsch which is likewise not a corruption of deutsch but a parallel evolution from the same root.
4. There is an excellent section on this etymology in the Pennsylvania German page to which I refer anybody who is interested in this topic. It is quite fascinating IMO. (I did not write that section but I have made recent edits to the article and am familiar with its contents.)
I hope this clears up this confusion. I know the "we mispronounced/misheard deutsch" explanation is commonly heard and often repeated but it is not accurate.
Dave ( djkernen)| Talk to me| Please help! 19:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Gentlemen, you may want to read this article Low German, and see that nothing is completely clearcut about the German language and its roots. Low German, which has been spoken throughout this entire region (Netherlands to Prussia) of Europe, has been ruled not a dialect and not a completely different language, but somewhere in between. I suggest that the "german" spoken by the settlers in the Pennsylvania region likely spoke a type of low german. These apparently were derivatives of Old Saxon, which is a distinct language. -- THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 13:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Why does User:Erikeltic undo addition of famous German Americans in the text and there pictures?
All information are readable in the linked articles and correct. User:Erikeltic, please read the linked articles before destroying the changes or tell us, which person of them you think would not be German American or worth mentioning here. Then we can decide about each of them. But please don’t destroy everything. It took hours of work. -- 87.176.203.112 ( talk) 13:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
OK, in order to discuss it, here is the suggested infobox: -- 87.176.203.112 ( talk) 13:49, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Regions with significant populations | |
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Throughout entire United States Plurality in 23 states [1], [2] | |
Languages | |
American English, German | |
Religion | |
Christian: Protestant ( Lutheran, Reformed, Mennonite, Amish, and others) Roman Catholic Jewish | |
Related ethnic groups | |
Germans Austrian Americans Swiss Americans Pennsylvania Dutch German diaspora German Canadians |
References
Ethnic German or Ethnic Ashkenazi Jews? I think this question will upset some but Jewish people don't consider themselves anything but Jewish ethnically and it is intellectually dishonest to put a non-ethnic German in the picture montage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.78.99 ( talk) 17:41, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Wouldn't he be a better fit for the American Jews page? Ashkenazi Jews and Germans are not the same people. Evildoer187 ( talk) 12:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
I concur with Iblardi. Evildoer187 ( talk) 00:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Why not have Bruce Lee as a German American? He was born in the USA, and his mother was half German genetically, although she was not born in the USA. 81.129.182.195 ( talk) 23:40, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I added this to the bibliography section, but wanted to call attention to it for anyone doing research:
It has detailed, cited, scholarly biographies written by academics. For example, picking a random subject:
I hope that is helpful! guanxi ( talk) 16:57, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Listing basic demographic statistics such the percentage of a given people per state is not an infringement of personal privacy. - SFK2 ( talk) 09:15, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
I deleted some of the pictures that do not show german americans — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.103.146.73 ( talk) 22:23, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
I've been teased and picked on by being german due to what the germans did in the civil war and was wondering if the civil war part can be edited out if that was ok? I would greatly appreciate it. I don't like the bullying from people and they poitn to this article. thanks Erik bjohnson ( talk) 10:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I have red-added the citations from scientists, demographers and genealogists about English Americans and the serious under-count, according to all research this sudden surge in German Americans makes absolutely no sense; six million more people self-identified as 'German-American' recently yet only 1200 Germans arrived and when the dna results came in only 5.8% of all Americans are descended from Germans while the English and British dna results come in as by far the largest at 42.6% which makes sense as in the 1980 census the largest group by far were English Americans then in 2000 the census added an 'American' category which allowed the English who have lived in the USA so long to identify as indigenous. Twobells ( talk) 22:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
seem to be both German-Americans and Swiss-Americans, see here and here. -- Kantischüler ( talk) 20:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
They were Jews. Not Germans. They are not of, as the articles states in the lead, "German descent". JDiala ( talk) 07:52, 29 October 2014 (UTC) Einstein isn't in the collage, he's mentioned as one of the Germans that emigrated to the US following the rise of Nazi Germany, perhaps it should say: "Including Albert Einstein (a German citizen of Jewish descent)". Arendt is in the collage, and perhaps he should be removed because he's not of German but of German Jewish descent. I have no problem if they're removed altogether or simply classified as German citizens of Jewish descent. Guy355 ( talk) 12:33, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, I really don't mind, this is all very arbitrary. Guy355 ( talk) 05:23, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
That's also true. This subject is very contrevirsal, considering the fact that there were Jews in Germany since at least the 4th century C.E. The fact that Yiddish is a German dialect, and that many Jews attempted and managed to assimilate. 213.8.52.148 ( talk) 06:32, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
I feel like this page is trying to undermine the German influence in some way to the point it almost makes it sound like it was edited by an anglophile. Especially in comparison to the English American page that tries so hard and gives us parapragphs basically trying to convince us that the English is dominant and the real one. There's not one mention on that page that the English number TOO is self reported just as the German number is. Fact of the matter is the English number is not 49 million. If you look at the 1980 census it also showed more than half of the people of these ancestries were multi-ethnic overall if I remember the paper correctly only around 20 million English Americans checked off being only English while the rest checked off being more than one ancestry. So do people honestly think that number that was already so low in the 80s miraculously grew? American's aren't homogeneous and it's not like German ancestry doesn't run through the veins of most English Americans and vice versa, they intermarried and lived in the same neighborhoods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalissa47 ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Why is Albert Einstein on this page? This page is about Ethnic Germans. Albert Einstein was an Ethnic Jew. He's also on the Jewish American page of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pietervhuis ( talk • contribs) 16:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
The confusion here is between religion, ethnicity, and nationality. What the identifier "Jew" means in this category is often ambiguous, even amongst Jews themselves. If we asked Einstein during his life, his answer would certainly have change. What we know for sure is that he renounced his German identity long before emigrating to the US. However, he also accepted a chair in Berlin during the beginning of WW2. The most important thing to remember about German identity is that it existed long before the 19th century, and esp. before the Great War and WW2.
Einstein was of ethnic Jewish identity, German (then US) nationality, and of no verifiable religion. It is possible to be Jewish by ethnicity and not by religion, considering many ethnic Jews don't profess any and some have even adopted Christianity (Benjamin Disraeli, David Ricardo, etc.). Being Jewish is a unique overlap of religious and ethnic identity. There are far better candidates to exemplify ethnic Germans of US nationality. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
208.102.241.133 (
talk) 07:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Einstein was born in Ulm (today Baden-Wuertemberg), he had a German passport and was a German speaker. So why shouldnt he be counted as German American? You dont distinguish the English into Protestant-English-Americans and Catholic-English-Americans. Regligion doesnt play a role here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.57.11.46 ( talk) 00:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Einstein was not ethnically german therefore he is not a german-american. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.195.132 ( talk) 21:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
German Americans are citizens of the United States of ethnic German ancestry (first line of the German American article). Someone born in Germany is a German. Einstein was born in Germany AND he was a Jew. That makes him a Ashkenazi Jew or a German Jew.
Einsteins Citizenship: Germany (1879–96, 1914–33) Switzerland (1901–55) United States (1940–55)
Einstein became a citizen of the United States in 1940 and remained there the rest of his life, although he retained his Swiss citizenship. That makes him an American with German ethnicity or a German American. He was a German American. Chase I ( talk)
IMHO Einstein alone doesn't worth this discussion, but excluding Jewish Germans of this article would be considered extremely racist in today Germany! Most "German" immigrants to the US came before there was any so called "German" nation state (1871), so the definition must be by language and culture. Otherwise it's like saying Canadian and Mexican Aborigines are not American Indians, just because the US monopolized the term "American" after revolution.
Ashkenazi Jew is somehow misleading, because this is mainly a religious school in contrast to Sephardim and the majority of them lived in Eastern Europe, having a proper culture based on orthodox Judaism, Yiddish language and mostly living in homogeneous and isolated settlements like Shtetls. Saying this, I must admit that IMHO the Yiddish language (= "jidisch taitsch" = "Jüdisch-Deutsch") is intelligible with Standard German, fare more than Low German, Dutch or Swiss German idioms, just the culture is apart. (Anyway I wouldn't have a problem calling them "German", but I doubt they would appreciate this ;-)
But the so called "West Jews" like Einstein, Kurt Weill or Heinrich Heine were also Ashkenazim but assimilated into German culture (often even heavily patriotic, just compare the roles of Walther Rathenau or Fritz Haber in WWI or notorious Erhard Milch in WWII) ! Ironically even Theodor Herzl the inventor of Zionism, wanted German to become the language of Israel, no joke! (And the Israeli legal system was heavily influenced by Yekke lawers and judges) -- Popolfi ( talk) 20:33, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
@Pietervhuis I know what you mean but you could be misunderstood easily. To write Einstein was a Jew but not a German is racist. Could have been a quotation from Hitler if you ask me. He was born in Germany, lived many years in Germany with a German passport and spoke German. He was for sure even more German than American if you want to write about the ethnic stuff ! -- Vicente2782 ( talk) 14:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Are not German Americans 2nd or 3rd generation Americans. We sorta call those who where born in foreign nations like Armenia or Germany, Germans and Armenians. Armenian Americans are the offspring and such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.253.134 ( talk) 03:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
This is the way NAZIS think: that a Jew cannot be German. Religion is not everything: a German can be Protestant, Catholic, Jew or whatever.-- 88.18.151.15 ( talk) 02:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Why is somebody a Nazi if he thinks that Jews are not Germans???? German-Americans are American citizens who are of German ETHNIC origin. If you speak German as mother language, and if you are born in Germany and even if you hold German citizenship that does not make you ETHNIC German! A Jew (and not Jews only, any other ethnic group) can be a member of German nation, but cannot be an ethnic German...he is of different descent, of different cultural background, and thus cannot be a member of any other ethnic group but his...What if somebody who is for example, a Serb born in Germany, who has Serbian parents, but speaks rubish Serbian, and has only German passport, emigrates to USA? Is he regarded as German-American?? I don't think so...And i feel sick when I see people who are acting like some great "liberals" and "anti-fascist" ...-- Vule91 ( talk) 15:17, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The last paragraph in this section is confusing in its discussion about post-WWII immigrants. I think it's trying to say that the most recent immigrants from Germany have come because of professional work reasons, since Germany is no longer a place many people are trying to migrate from. It's confusing enough that I don't want to guess, however.
Also, that theory doesn't cover the post-war immigration of German ethnic refugees from Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union who were expelled by nations who had suffered under Nazi invasion and occupation. Enough Danouswabians immigrated from Hungary in the post-war years, for instance, to create cultural centers in cities such as Trenton, NJ and others.-- Parkwells ( talk) 22:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
This section claims Eisenhower and Hoover were of "primarily German ancestry", but doesn't offer sources or much evidence for the claim. Eisenhower's mother's maiden name was Stover and she was born in VA to Elizabeth Link and Simon Stover, both of whose names may also be of English ancestry. His father's family immigrated to the US in the 18th c., so there were many opportunities through the generations for Eisenhauer/Eisenhower marriages to spouses of other than German backgrounds. My German ancestors in NY started marrying out in the 1820s.-- Parkwells ( talk) 22:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The Richard Nixon reference in the article is interesting. Milhaus sounds German, but I thought that Nixon claimed Irish ancestry through a Quaker called Milhous who lived in the north of Ireland in the eighteenth century. But that Mr Milhous could of course have been of German origin.
I put a piece in the Irish American discussion about the relative paucity of German American Presidents in the light of the large number of Presidents claiming Irish ancestry, and how this was surprising considering that there are more German Americans than Irish Americans. It was deleted.
Came upon this while looking for something else, it's available on-line (choose the PDF version, the text version is a not-too-useful scan). The German soldier in the wars of the United States - by Rosengarten, J. G. (1835-1921), published 1886. Sorry to post to the article talk page rather than the correct place, but I'm new and still feeling my way around. Regards, 24.178.228.14 ( talk) 17:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
While reverting recent changes to delete Albert Einstein, a recently added photo of Paris Hilton was collateral. NOTE: Paris Hilton has German heritage, so she could go back.
Re the edit comment about "Ashkenazi Jew," note that "Ashkenaz is the Medieval Hebrew name for the region which later formed the country of Germany. Thus Ashkenazi Jews are literally 'German Jews.'"
This page has before needed protection. Hopefully that will not be necessary again. Proofreader77 ( talk) 19:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at the article now, and it seems like the bottom of it (including the sources) was chopped off, and the citation links don't go anywhere. I wouldn't want to mess with anything, but if this was someone's mistake or an intentional change, where can I find the original version or can someone fix this one?
71.238.25.46 ( talk) 14:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I was just looking at this article because we've got a discussion going on over at Britons with Latin American ancestry about who counts as British (some editors are arguing that permanent residency in the UK is sufficient, which I disagree with, arguing instead that the person needs to be a citizen, or at least describe themself as British, but that's beside the point). Anyway, I wondered what the situation was on a more-developed article such as this, but there seems to be an inconsistency. In the introduction, it states "German Americans are citizens of the United States of ethnic German ancestry", but then the 50,764,352 population figure seems to include 271,583 people who are not American citizens. Cordless Larry ( talk) 11:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
The most-known German American is Johnny Weissmüller, alias Tarzan. Therefore he should be included in the main box. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.3.74.229 ( talk • contribs) 13:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Surname sounded German, so I thought he's maybe German...-- Vule91 ( talk) 20:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Please don't include the Rockerfellers and Elvis Presley as German-Americans in the info box. Their families have been living in the Americas for centuries. It's too distant to count anymore to consider them ethnically "German" and their ancestors would have intermarried with other ethnic groups during that time. I think Elvis Presley's family mostly has Scottish and Cherokee ancestry. Their families has nothing to do with modern Germany anymore. In my opinion, the only people that should count as German Americans is if their families recently immigrated to the US (ie 1st, 2nd, or maybe 3rd generation German Americans) or they are German immigrants themselves like actress Kristen Dunst, Albert Einstein, President Eisenhower, Babe Ruth, Admiral Nimitz, General Pershing, actress Marlena Dietrich, General Franz Sigel, General Spaatz, actor Eric Braeden, and architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe. -- Pilot expert ( talk) 18:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
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I removed the statement that the brewer "in the family still today", for two reasons. First, it has been a publicly traded corporation for decades. The Busches remained substantial stockholders, officers, board members of the corporation but this is not quite the same as a privately held company under family control. Second and perhaps more to the point, A-B has announced its intention to merge with another giant corporation. (See article on Anheuser Busch.) If the deal goes through, "in the family" will no longer be at all applicable. Publius3 ( talk) 05:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Bruce Willis and Clark Gable, despite their English American names (and paternal ancestries), are being labelled as German Americans because their mothers were German and German-Irish American respectively. In the absence of sources where they specifically identify themselves as German Americans, either they should be excluded, or they should be labelled as English and/or Irish Americans as well, to avoid obvious ethnic bias. 92.1.160.100 ( talk) 16:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate a quick show of hands at Talk:List of German Americans#Jews?, I don't want to revert the user a second time without a clearer consensus. Thanks, Amalthea 01:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
At the moment it reads German American (adjective). Surely, it should read German Americans (noun)? The article itself starts - quite correctly - with the noun. Norvo ( talk) 01:51, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Are there not any women in America of German ancestry? I can think of many, starting with Doris Day, Marlene Dietrich, Kim Basinger.-- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 06:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
The footnote from the History of the Jamestown Settlement (1607-1699) page http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/first_dutchmen_of_america.htm States - The “Dutchmen” were probably Netherlanders although there is a slight chance they may have been German speakers from elsewhere. If someone has a source showing the identity of the Dutchmen to in fact be German speakers they can undo my edit. Nitpyck ( talk) 22:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
"There have been two American presidents whose fathers were of German descent, Dwight Eisenhower (original family name Eisenhauer) and Herbert Hoover (original family name Huber)."
Is this really the best we can get? Why should Hoover and Eisenhower be representatives of the German-American subnation when there's almost nothing indicating they are even known as "German-Americans?" It simply doesn't make sense to edit war over this. There are so many better, sourcable examples. Bulldog123 04:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems somewhat inappropriate to describe Wernher von Braun as one of those who made an "intellectual" contribution. "Scientific" would be more accurate. Sca ( talk) 19:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
[2] -- Epeefleche ( talk) 16:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This article is written like all German Americans are like Germans and they are in the United States like immigrants, because we ("Germans") are all better than those Americans because we are Germans. There is subtle superiority, i'm different, i'm german, i'm not american tendency happening in this article. German Americans are Americans. Most of them lost their german identity and disproportianally most of them will not be regarded or cared if they are German in Germany. German Americans are different than Germans except the ones that actually immigrated to the USA recently like the 2000s or 1990s. Be proud to be American. German is like any other ethnic group. When I see Americans in the US, i can't tell a person is German until they speak the german language, and then they will believe, until then they are all Cowboy americans just like any other immigrant groups in the US like irish, english, mexican. German-American loyalty is to the US, they are identified as americans that drinks coke and eat burger. Don't get so obsessed on being german. adolf hitler is "austrian" by the way not german born. Unless you are born in Germany and speak the german language, identify with the german culture and watch german tv, you won't likely be considered German in Germany. Just my opinion. 97.124.255.168 ( talk) 02:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
You (rjensen) said in your edit summary here: "everything is cited; please read the bibliography before complaining)"
That statement is factually incorrect:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:German Americans/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
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I haven't had time to closely read the entire article, but it is in error where it says Theodore Roosevelt referred to German Americans as "hyphenated Americans." I am graduate student in journalism now finishing a history of German-language newspapers in the United States. My sources on the WWI period all agree it was Woodrow Wilson who used "hyphenated Americans" in reference to German Americans. Theodore Roosevelt was no fan of German Americans, but it was Wilson -- who was president during WWI -- who used that phrase. Nebraska Lola 06:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC) Isn't it true that German Americans are not white? For instance, though they are pale-skinned and have clean features, aren't they "beyond white", in the sense of being further beyond racial classifications? Isn't it an insult to people of Germanic origins to categorize them with Irish people, for instance? I vote that we categorize German-Americans are sur-white, beyond white, because they cannot be held back by definitions, and thus transcend the logic of caterogization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:15, 11 November 2015 (UTC). Substituted at 20:36, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
This section of the wiki seems to be based on no actual data. Nothing but a guess, an assumption that only the English will claim "American". Ive been around loads of people of different ancestries who refer to themselves as solely American including African Americans. Lots of people who select this option are also either making a statement or so many ancestries by now that they no longer feel ties to just one. Others could be a single ancestry or two with no cultural ties to the nation their ancestors came from so they feel "American". The assumption that this is proof of a larger English number seems like a total stretch to me especially considering other ethnic groups have also been here since the colonial days and after including Mexicans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:24C8:CE1D:D0D0:8CBA ( talk) 13:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I innitially thought the English number was lower but after doing some research I now know the English are more than likely still the largest. The same thing seems to have happened in Australia. Newer immigrants are likely to use hyphens while the older stock such as the English just go by "Australian".
How is the English American number so low, when literally all of the German American examples (Actors, entertainers etc) on this page also have either English, Scottish, Irish, or Welsh ancestry? Sometimes multiple British ancestries? That right there alone should make me people question the legitimacy of the number. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:391E:4A01:A34F:8FCB ( talk) 03:35, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
But see thats what I don't get. Usualy the people who claim the German ancestry have some miniscule ancestry of it making it even less "distinct" than the British isles ancestries (although genetically Germans aren't that different from the British) German-Americans largely blended in and assimilated with the Anglo-American WASP population pretty easily which resulted in a lot of them having their German ancestry diluted by British Americans. Take Brad Pitt for example, he's one of the Americans who claims German ancestry but a look at his family tree reveals that he's about 1/512 German the rest of his ancestors being British isles descended (English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh). This happened to a large portion of Americans. Logically the numbers should be as high, but I guess thats the problem with self identification, people decide what they want to identify with regardless of what they are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:391E:4A01:A34F:8FCB ( talk) 06:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Actually there's no way to tell just how much German Brad Pitt is. You're forgetting that most German immigrants changed their surnames. So just because one of Brad Pitt's ancestors may have an Anglo surname doesn't make that ancestor not a German themselves. In my honest opinion (this coming from someone who has been in both Britain & Germany) Pitt looks far more German than he does British. Ive come across many similar to him in Germany, none in Britain. He also has what most anthropologist call a "Faelid" bone structure. Which is apparently most common in Germany & Netherlands, less common in Britain. Google Faelid, a lot of them look similar to Pitt like Charlie Sheerer. The same thing you say about the Germans is the same thing that can be said about the British - Most British Americans also have atleast one German ancestor. I don't think people realize that the English although a very large population in the 1700s they only numbered at around 1 million. Do you know how large our population has gotten since then? a large chunk of our current White population came from immigration, not baby making. Thus I don't think the number is flawed at all. On the contrary I think the number for German Americans should be even higher. Ive even heard more Blacks claiming to have German ancestors over English or Scottish. There were MANY MANY Germans. And unless you're some expert on phenotypes you won't be able to know because surnames sure aren't useful proof for ancestry as even African Americans have Anglo surnames. How many of the Smiths in America actually used to be Schmidt instead? So just because someone has an Anglo surnames does not mean they're British or not German. Also just a little of my two cents, ive been throughout many states and I have to say White Americans as a whole look a lot more German than they do British. Its clear the German impact helped distinquish White American phenotypes from the other Anglosphere nations. Unlike the Australians, Americans don't look totally British, but I do see common American faces throughout Germany. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jessiluvv (
talk •
contribs) 03:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Sorry to burst your bubble but there IS a way to tell how much German Brad Pitt is. We've had his official documents for a while now. His Germany ancestry is miniscule. Based on his public ancestry records he had far more English ancestors than any other. Noone is going by surnames. They're going by census reports, where the ancestors came from. Thats how we know Brad Pitt is majority English. You're fogetting that there are millions of English and British Americans in general. Any German ancestor is more than likely to intermarry with a Brit. That offspring will also more than likely intermarry with a Brit. Thus weakening the German lineage with each generation. Which is exactly what happened with a lot of German Americans. Usually the German element in most German Americans is weaker than that of English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmen2013 ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
The bizarre lead mentions Einstein setting intellectual landmarks... correct, long before he retired in America becoming a dual citizen in his 60's, having left Nazi Germany. No one associates Einstein with America (bar living there in old age)...as after Germany its then to a much lesser degree Switzerland. The loose reference here in the lead lacks credibiity. Its like Iceland having a section on Bobby Fisher as a chess champion as he adopted citizenship in his latter years. The others in the section ARE noted German-Americans namely Babe Ruth, Jack Nicklaus, Leo DiCaprio.. they are Americans of German descent who have been influential while under that label. Yes with Einstein being German and adopting American citizenship in old age, that merits a bullet point in a German-American list, but thats it. BudSipkiss ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC).
How RACIST are some people: KISSINGER and EINSTEIN are two German-Americans. They were/are Germans and Jews. Only the Nazis think that Einstein and Kissinger cannot be German because of their religion.-- 83.63.180.178 ( talk) 23:33, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
It's pretty clear, in my opinion, that Einstein's presence in this article is justifiable. I don't think anyone is attempting to claim that Einstein was more American than German, or that it is to America that he owes his having been able to achieve such importance in the scientific community. This article concerns all citizens of the United States who also happened to be of German ancestry, or who held both U.S. and German citizenship. By law and under any international standard, Einstein was a German-American individual, even if only for part of his life. It is utterly irrelevant whether he became a German American later in his life, or whether his grandest accomplishments occurred while he was in another country, or whether he came to the United States merely fleeing Nazi Germany or seeking to become an American citizen. The fact remains, he did become an American citizen, and having been born in Germany, that made him a German American. As for his notability as a German American, it is true that he became a Nobel Laureate well before he came to the U.S., but that doesn't mean that he wasn't a notable German-born citizen of the United States. While living in the U.S., he became active in U.S. political and social affairs. Even if he hadn't already been a famous scientist by the time he had come to the U.S., he would have secured a place in this nation's history for what he did when he was here (which, granted, he might not been able to do without his fame as a scientist). All in all, I don't see the point of BudSipkiss. Yes, Einstein's popularity arises more from what he did while he was in Europe than from what he did in the United States, but that doesn't make him any less American than he was when he became a U.S. citizen. He was a German-American and he was notable, therefore I don't see any reason to take him out of this article.-- AndresTM ( talk) 20:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
added Marlene Dietrich · Wernher von Braun · Henry Kissinger. Needed more women, and more German-American immigrants.-- Work permit ( talk) 06:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
===U.S. communities with the most residents born in Germany=== The 10 U.S. communities with the highest proportion of residents born in Germany are:<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.city-data.com/top2/h49.html |title=Top 101 cities with the most residents born in Germany (population 500+) |publisher=city-data.com |accessdate=2008-08-12}}</ref>
City-Data is not a source! It has no citation. It is a message board link. Tom Nyj0127 ( talk)
References
City-Data is not a credible resource. It is a message board site. They don't provide any resource (ex. Census records) to show there is a population born in Germany in any of those towns. It has no credibility. Please don't diminish the integrity of this article by allowing shoddy information. With that being said, please don't keep putting it back up there. I have been respectful enough to give you an explanation. I'd appreciate the same. Tom Nyj0127 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC).
I replaced the two sentences removed under the "undue weight" guideline. The point is to clarify that German American contributions to the U.S. brewing industry did not begin and end in 1850 with Bud Light and Pabst Blue Ribbon. There is a bunch of *good* beer in this country too, a lot of it is microbrew, and a lot of that resulted from German influences in the mid-to-late 20th Century. By definition, the most prominent microbrewer is going to be less of a household name than Anheiser-Busch. That doesn't stop microbrew from being important, however, and I chose to mention Karl Strauss as being one of the best known and most prominant of that group. I don't feel it is "undue weight" to clarify that there is more to the German influence on American beer than "Tastes great! Less Filling!" — Rnickel ( talk) 16:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
A lot of people talk about paranoia about people saying "Jews control America", which is obviously a ridiculous antisemitic claim. However it is true that Germany is very sensitive in matters involving Jews for the obvious reason of WW2 reparations. But what is often not heard is that the majority ancestry in the US is German. Could that be a source of 'shame'? Inclusion of articles from reliable source on the matter for betterment of the article would be appreciated. -- Leladax ( talk) 17:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Most Americans have 2, 3 or more ancestry. The Problem is, the Germans. These People looking only for one ancestry in People. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.204.12 ( talk) 11:10, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Correct! And 50 Millions Americans are German Americans is a false Info, because, at least 95% Americans have two or three ancestry and not 1. Also Kevin James has two or three ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.218.8 ( talk) 23:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Alsatians who emigrated to Texas during the 1840s were French citizens ! Alsace was French since 1648 ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.141.167.99 ( talk) 07:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
The Region of Elsass-Lothringen did belong as well to France as it did to Germany regarding the historical periods. But this Article is about people with ethnic German background and even if there have been centuries where Elsass belonged to France the people who lived there where about 98% ethnic Germans until WW1. I travelled there a lot. The German history is there everypresent in the architecture. Hell even many champagne houses have German names. And clearly Alsatians are called the German sheppard not the French sheppard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.90.137 ( talk) 02:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Di caprio is listed as both german and russian. I don't know which he is but the last name does not sound like either, sounds more latin to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.18.213 ( talk) 03:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
This Article has many errors. And DiCaprio is more Russian and Italien. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.246.193.20 ( talk) 11:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm thinking of opening up an RfC regarding the use of ethnic group "representation" infobox images on X-American pages. It's been going on unchecked for years now and has only escalated into a competition to see who can put more famous people in their infobox (painfully exemplified by Norwegian_American). In addition to being original research - in most cases these people are not held as "quintessential examples" of that group by external sources - it's also a WP:BLP issue, as there's no evidence many of these individuals would, could, or should be identified as members of this group. That last comment may be met with responses like, "Why would anyone find offense at being called a German American?" It's not merely about finding offense but about being misrepresented. Given, I doubt leading members of the German American community would appreciate having Leonardo Dicaprio (an individual with 1/4th ethnic German heritage who doesn't speak German or seem to have much association with German culture) seated next to a more authentically German German-American like Werner von Braun -- so that's where the "offense" part might come into play. By and large though, the "finding offense" thing is irrelevant. The main point is that it's not our job as Wikipedia editors to choose who best represents members of a certain community. Right now, the infoboxes are turning into Facebook Interest groups and ethnic-pride/cultural-promotion articles. My proposal is to find consensus at RfC to simply not put any images there and have that apply to all X-American pages. There's a similar issue with population numbers (which German Americans seems to have already implemented), but I'm not going to get into that now. Anyone here would support the RfC? Bulldog123 18:34, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph in this article starts off, "None of the historical German states had overseas colonies, so not until the 1680s did the first significant groups of German immigrants arrive in the British colonies..."
First, in the article for Brandenburg-Prussia, it says this:
So not only did at least one of the princely states have colonies, the one from Brandenburg-Prussia was founded in the same year that this article says that they were emigrating to the British colonies.
Second, the year 1680 *can't be right! and it can't be 1860s either. I actually came to find information on German emigration prior to the civil war, of which there was quite a bit for a number of reasons (and I was looking for those reasons [1]... guess I'll have to keep looking).
stevendolan (whose email is at google.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.184.91 ( talk) 02:31, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
References
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Infobox_Images_for_Ethnic_Groups. Bulldog123 09:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Either the percentage numbers are wrong or the order of places 2 and 3 is. 43<44 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.189.85.244 ( talk) 23:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I do not agree that there are only very few places with German names. There are several Berlins, Frankforts, there's a Bismarck (ND), New Braunfels (TX), New Paltz (NY) etc. If we can agree that the aforementioned count as "German" place names, I would be more than happy to try and come up with a comprehensive list. -- Aquinate ( talk) 11:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Off the bat, Wikipedia lists over 20 places in the US with the name "Hamburg," over 20 with the name "Berlin," 19 with the name "Hanover," 2 Mecklenburgs, 1 Brandenburg, 1 Flensburg. Names originally from German-speaking Europe (outside modern Germany) would also include places like Carlsbad (4 in the US with Wikipedia articles), Vienna (19 places with Wikipedia articles), Strasburg (9 places with Wikipedia articles named that in the US), Zurich (4 places in the US with Wiki articles), Posen (4 Wikipedia articles), 1 Stettin, 2 Breslau, etc. In any case that hardly counts as "extremely rare!" In fact there are probably too many for a list. Udibi ( talk) 10:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I am copying this from my talk page. The talk page on this article is a much more appropriate place for this discussion.
Infobox Edits |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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I encourage other editors to review and contribute. Erikeltic ( Talk) 00:09, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
You could argue that infobox images don't add anything to the article's content, but such an argument is purely academic. The reality is that we have infobox images as a tool to enhance the article; therfore, I think it makes sense to showcase the most "significant" German-Americans. Whether that number is six or fifteen is the less important issue in my opinion. The more important and more difficult question is how are we defining "significance". In my opinion, the infobox should include Rockefeller, Schurz and Mencken for different reasons. In any listing of German-Americans, John D. Rockefeller, the first American billionaire, is always listed near the top. Based on the combination of accomplishment and sheer name recognition, he should be in the infobox. Schurz and Mencken were not only very famous and accomplished men, they were German-Americans in a political sense, which is now obsolete. If I had to remove any images, I would remove Marlene Dietrich and Albert Einstein, who are more associated with the countries of their birth and also Sandra Bullock, who would be hard-pressed to make my list of the Top 100 most significant German-Americans. Vdjj1960 ( talk) 19:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
There is an urban legend that the term "Pennsylvania Dutch" comes from the Standard German word "Deutsch". The story sounds reasonable but is not true.
1. The English word "Dutch" is an old word that has Saxon roots and which shares much of its etymology with the Standard German endonym deutsch but that is not the same thing as being derived from that word. They both evolved from common roots.
2. The English word "Dutch" used to be used to refer to anyone who spoke a Germanic language. Dutch is a Germanic language, as are Pennsylvania German (aka Pennsylvania Dutch) and Standard German. At the time that these immigrants settled in Pennsylvania the term "Dutch" was a perfectly valid way to refer to them, and it was only later that meaning of Dutch narrowed to the point where it now is commonly used just to refer to Netherlanders.
3. The people who settled Pennsylvania for the most part did not speak Standard German and would not have used the word deutsch to refer to themselves. They would have used the Palatinate word deitsch which is likewise not a corruption of deutsch but a parallel evolution from the same root.
4. There is an excellent section on this etymology in the Pennsylvania German page to which I refer anybody who is interested in this topic. It is quite fascinating IMO. (I did not write that section but I have made recent edits to the article and am familiar with its contents.)
I hope this clears up this confusion. I know the "we mispronounced/misheard deutsch" explanation is commonly heard and often repeated but it is not accurate.
Dave ( djkernen)| Talk to me| Please help! 19:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Gentlemen, you may want to read this article Low German, and see that nothing is completely clearcut about the German language and its roots. Low German, which has been spoken throughout this entire region (Netherlands to Prussia) of Europe, has been ruled not a dialect and not a completely different language, but somewhere in between. I suggest that the "german" spoken by the settlers in the Pennsylvania region likely spoke a type of low german. These apparently were derivatives of Old Saxon, which is a distinct language. -- THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 13:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Why does User:Erikeltic undo addition of famous German Americans in the text and there pictures?
All information are readable in the linked articles and correct. User:Erikeltic, please read the linked articles before destroying the changes or tell us, which person of them you think would not be German American or worth mentioning here. Then we can decide about each of them. But please don’t destroy everything. It took hours of work. -- 87.176.203.112 ( talk) 13:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
OK, in order to discuss it, here is the suggested infobox: -- 87.176.203.112 ( talk) 13:49, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Regions with significant populations | |
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Throughout entire United States Plurality in 23 states [1], [2] | |
Languages | |
American English, German | |
Religion | |
Christian: Protestant ( Lutheran, Reformed, Mennonite, Amish, and others) Roman Catholic Jewish | |
Related ethnic groups | |
Germans Austrian Americans Swiss Americans Pennsylvania Dutch German diaspora German Canadians |
References
Ethnic German or Ethnic Ashkenazi Jews? I think this question will upset some but Jewish people don't consider themselves anything but Jewish ethnically and it is intellectually dishonest to put a non-ethnic German in the picture montage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.78.99 ( talk) 17:41, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Wouldn't he be a better fit for the American Jews page? Ashkenazi Jews and Germans are not the same people. Evildoer187 ( talk) 12:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
I concur with Iblardi. Evildoer187 ( talk) 00:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Why not have Bruce Lee as a German American? He was born in the USA, and his mother was half German genetically, although she was not born in the USA. 81.129.182.195 ( talk) 23:40, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I added this to the bibliography section, but wanted to call attention to it for anyone doing research:
It has detailed, cited, scholarly biographies written by academics. For example, picking a random subject:
I hope that is helpful! guanxi ( talk) 16:57, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Listing basic demographic statistics such the percentage of a given people per state is not an infringement of personal privacy. - SFK2 ( talk) 09:15, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
I deleted some of the pictures that do not show german americans — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.103.146.73 ( talk) 22:23, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
I've been teased and picked on by being german due to what the germans did in the civil war and was wondering if the civil war part can be edited out if that was ok? I would greatly appreciate it. I don't like the bullying from people and they poitn to this article. thanks Erik bjohnson ( talk) 10:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I have red-added the citations from scientists, demographers and genealogists about English Americans and the serious under-count, according to all research this sudden surge in German Americans makes absolutely no sense; six million more people self-identified as 'German-American' recently yet only 1200 Germans arrived and when the dna results came in only 5.8% of all Americans are descended from Germans while the English and British dna results come in as by far the largest at 42.6% which makes sense as in the 1980 census the largest group by far were English Americans then in 2000 the census added an 'American' category which allowed the English who have lived in the USA so long to identify as indigenous. Twobells ( talk) 22:32, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
seem to be both German-Americans and Swiss-Americans, see here and here. -- Kantischüler ( talk) 20:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
They were Jews. Not Germans. They are not of, as the articles states in the lead, "German descent". JDiala ( talk) 07:52, 29 October 2014 (UTC) Einstein isn't in the collage, he's mentioned as one of the Germans that emigrated to the US following the rise of Nazi Germany, perhaps it should say: "Including Albert Einstein (a German citizen of Jewish descent)". Arendt is in the collage, and perhaps he should be removed because he's not of German but of German Jewish descent. I have no problem if they're removed altogether or simply classified as German citizens of Jewish descent. Guy355 ( talk) 12:33, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, I really don't mind, this is all very arbitrary. Guy355 ( talk) 05:23, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
That's also true. This subject is very contrevirsal, considering the fact that there were Jews in Germany since at least the 4th century C.E. The fact that Yiddish is a German dialect, and that many Jews attempted and managed to assimilate. 213.8.52.148 ( talk) 06:32, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
I feel like this page is trying to undermine the German influence in some way to the point it almost makes it sound like it was edited by an anglophile. Especially in comparison to the English American page that tries so hard and gives us parapragphs basically trying to convince us that the English is dominant and the real one. There's not one mention on that page that the English number TOO is self reported just as the German number is. Fact of the matter is the English number is not 49 million. If you look at the 1980 census it also showed more than half of the people of these ancestries were multi-ethnic overall if I remember the paper correctly only around 20 million English Americans checked off being only English while the rest checked off being more than one ancestry. So do people honestly think that number that was already so low in the 80s miraculously grew? American's aren't homogeneous and it's not like German ancestry doesn't run through the veins of most English Americans and vice versa, they intermarried and lived in the same neighborhoods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalissa47 ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 24 September 2015 (UTC)