Home • Search • Translate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rewrite of article, changes passages & reasons therefore

This article, imo, needed some major revisions. It was too long and included more information that should be in encylopedia's biographical sketch. The On-line Britannica article is only a few paragraphs and contains far fewer details while getting the point, as it were, much more efficiently.

Below are the major passages that I've edited. Beneath them, in parentheses, are the reasons for the changes. The reasons are not in a polished, concise form.

PainMan 23:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Paragraphs Changes; Reasons for edits

corps in the army

(the corps was not a military formation until the Napoleonic Wars, 160+ years after this period)


At first as adjutant-general to the Parliamentary lord-lieutenant, his old friend Lord Lisle, and afterwards

as governor of Ulster, he rendered great services to his new masters. In conjunction with Colonel Michael

Jones, governor of Leinster, he made headway against the rebels for two years, but in the third (1649) the

Parliamentarians, weakened by defections brought about by the execution of the king, were no longer able to

keep the field.

. Ten days after hoisting his flag for the first time he was engaged with his colleagues, [[Robert Blake

(admiral)|Robert Blake]] and Richard Deane, in the Battle of Portland ( 28 February - 2 March

1653). In the Battle of the Gabbard (2 - 3 June 1653) Monck exercised the general command

after Deane's death. The Battle of Scheveningen followed on 29 - July 31,


(far too much detail for an encyclopedic bio article; this belongs, more properly to the history of the English Civil War or English Commonwealth


diplomatist

(incorrect word and rather archaic)


It is improbable that at this time Monck had proposed to himself the restoration of the king, though so astute

a politician must have weighed the chances of such an event. His very reticence, however, caused alarm on one

side and hope on the other.


(It seems unlikley Cromwell would have continued to trust him if he thought Monck wavering in his loyalty to

himself. The subsequent part of the paragraph thus directly contradicts the first.)


But when Booth rose in Cheshire for the king, so tempting did the

opportunity seem that he was on the point of joining forces with him, and a manifesto was prepared. His

habitual caution, however, induced him to wait until the next post from England, and the next post brought

news of Booth's defeat.

(Not really important enough for inclusion; the important point, to which this is redundant, is made again in

the same paragraph.)


The navy, some of the English garrisons and the army in Ireland declared for the parliament, and the army from

Scotland crossed the Tweed on 2 January 1660. It was inferior in numbers, but in all other respects

superior to Lambert's, and Monck slowly marched on to London, disbanding or taking over on his way the

detachments of Lambert's army which he met....


(Just too much information; this belongs more to an article on the Restoration or the history of Britain or

even Parliament itself)


which Monk was imposing on the remnant of the old,

(if Monck had the power to force the Rump's dissolution, then he obviously had the power to call for new

elections)


With the Restoration the historic interest of Monck's career ceases.

(just a little bit of POV...)


and commander-in-chief


(of what? The army? Which army & where? Also, citation needed for that.)


As long as the army existed of which he was the idol, and of which the last service was to suppress [[Thomas

Venner]]'s revolt (January 1661), he remained a person of influence.


(Venner's revolt was minor of little conciquence. And Monck clearly remained a "person influence" since he was

given further military responsibilities by Charles II, notably fighting in the Second Anglo-Dutch War.

Charles II remained sincerely grateful.)


In 1664 Monck had charge of the admiralty when James, duke of York, commanded the

fleet, and when in 1665 much of the populace deserted London on account of the Great Plague, Monck, with all the readiness of a man accustomed to obey without thinking of risk, remained in

charge of the government of the city.


(not really important enough for Monck's biography, belongs more to the story of the Plague of 1665)


Once more, at the end of 1665, he was called upon to fight, having a joint commission with [[Prince Rupert of

the Rhine|Prince Rupert]] against the Dutch in the Second Anglo-Dutch War. The whole burden of the

preparations fell upon him. On 23 April 1666 the admirals joined the fleet, and on 1 June 1666

began the great Four Days Battle, in which Monck showed not only all his old coolness and skill, but also

a reckless daring which had seemed hitherto foreign to his character. As this recklessness had cost the

English many ships, command of the fleet was taken from him and given to Rupert, whom he would accompany in

the St James's Day Battle, the last battle at sea in which he would participate. Later in the same year he

maintained order in the city of London during the Great Fire.


(this can be put more pithily, since the only really important point is that he fought in the Second

Anglo-Dutch War)


Isle of Rhe


(This is normally spelled as Isle of Ré or the French Île de Ré)

PainMan 23:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Venner's Second Rising ensured the continuation of the British Standing Army and led directly to the Code of Clarendon or Five Acts suppressing Dissenters until the reign of James II. Venner's fifty men held off several thousands troops in central London in 1660/1--Streona (talk) 14:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Bias

This article over-glorifies this figure to a great extent. Thedreamdied 19:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC) reply

Abdael...

Poets such as Dryden refer to George as Abdael. Can someone explain in the article what this name comes from and what poems it appears in? Kingturtle ( talk) 19:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC) reply

New file File:George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle by Samuel Cooper.jpg

Recently the file File:George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle by Samuel Cooper.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 20:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC) reply

the slaughter of innocents

I notice the severe lack of mention, the fact he killed over 1200 soldiers and citizens of dundee, including 200 women and children then masicared the town the in the days afterwards, disposing of the bodies in mass graves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.91.8 ( talk) 22:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC) reply

His massacre of men, women and children in the Highlands, and his campaign of burning townships there, is also not mentioned. Whitewash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.107.120 ( talk) 18:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC) reply

character section

I notice that the character section consists of two old quotes. Is there a modern assessment that we can include? Bazuz ( talk) 12:13, 20 October 2011 (UTC) reply

Discussion of his wife

The character of Monck's wife is certainly dragged through the mud in several sections of this article. Perhaps everything that is said about her is both true and fully verifiable.... On the other hand, Monck himself was clearly a controversial figure during his own lifetime, with many enemies and many who envied his success. It would not be unusual for some of these to seek to get at him by way of suggestions that his wife was a filthy, foul-mouthed trollope. Can anyone provide access to the conclusions of modern scholars who have looked critically into the contemporary accounts to determine if this is more than politically-motivated character assassination? Nandt1 ( talk) 14:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC) reply

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{ source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC) reply

B class review

Nice work. B class. I added a word and a comma to paragraph 3 of the Introduction. Please use the long dash for date ranges and page ranges. (See: Special characters > Symbols > long dash is after m³.) Djmaschek ( talk) 20:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC) reply

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:George_Monck,_1st_Duke_of_Albemarle&oldid=1216970747"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rewrite of article, changes passages & reasons therefore

This article, imo, needed some major revisions. It was too long and included more information that should be in encylopedia's biographical sketch. The On-line Britannica article is only a few paragraphs and contains far fewer details while getting the point, as it were, much more efficiently.

Below are the major passages that I've edited. Beneath them, in parentheses, are the reasons for the changes. The reasons are not in a polished, concise form.

PainMan 23:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Paragraphs Changes; Reasons for edits

corps in the army

(the corps was not a military formation until the Napoleonic Wars, 160+ years after this period)


At first as adjutant-general to the Parliamentary lord-lieutenant, his old friend Lord Lisle, and afterwards

as governor of Ulster, he rendered great services to his new masters. In conjunction with Colonel Michael

Jones, governor of Leinster, he made headway against the rebels for two years, but in the third (1649) the

Parliamentarians, weakened by defections brought about by the execution of the king, were no longer able to

keep the field.

. Ten days after hoisting his flag for the first time he was engaged with his colleagues, [[Robert Blake

(admiral)|Robert Blake]] and Richard Deane, in the Battle of Portland ( 28 February - 2 March

1653). In the Battle of the Gabbard (2 - 3 June 1653) Monck exercised the general command

after Deane's death. The Battle of Scheveningen followed on 29 - July 31,


(far too much detail for an encyclopedic bio article; this belongs, more properly to the history of the English Civil War or English Commonwealth


diplomatist

(incorrect word and rather archaic)


It is improbable that at this time Monck had proposed to himself the restoration of the king, though so astute

a politician must have weighed the chances of such an event. His very reticence, however, caused alarm on one

side and hope on the other.


(It seems unlikley Cromwell would have continued to trust him if he thought Monck wavering in his loyalty to

himself. The subsequent part of the paragraph thus directly contradicts the first.)


But when Booth rose in Cheshire for the king, so tempting did the

opportunity seem that he was on the point of joining forces with him, and a manifesto was prepared. His

habitual caution, however, induced him to wait until the next post from England, and the next post brought

news of Booth's defeat.

(Not really important enough for inclusion; the important point, to which this is redundant, is made again in

the same paragraph.)


The navy, some of the English garrisons and the army in Ireland declared for the parliament, and the army from

Scotland crossed the Tweed on 2 January 1660. It was inferior in numbers, but in all other respects

superior to Lambert's, and Monck slowly marched on to London, disbanding or taking over on his way the

detachments of Lambert's army which he met....


(Just too much information; this belongs more to an article on the Restoration or the history of Britain or

even Parliament itself)


which Monk was imposing on the remnant of the old,

(if Monck had the power to force the Rump's dissolution, then he obviously had the power to call for new

elections)


With the Restoration the historic interest of Monck's career ceases.

(just a little bit of POV...)


and commander-in-chief


(of what? The army? Which army & where? Also, citation needed for that.)


As long as the army existed of which he was the idol, and of which the last service was to suppress [[Thomas

Venner]]'s revolt (January 1661), he remained a person of influence.


(Venner's revolt was minor of little conciquence. And Monck clearly remained a "person influence" since he was

given further military responsibilities by Charles II, notably fighting in the Second Anglo-Dutch War.

Charles II remained sincerely grateful.)


In 1664 Monck had charge of the admiralty when James, duke of York, commanded the

fleet, and when in 1665 much of the populace deserted London on account of the Great Plague, Monck, with all the readiness of a man accustomed to obey without thinking of risk, remained in

charge of the government of the city.


(not really important enough for Monck's biography, belongs more to the story of the Plague of 1665)


Once more, at the end of 1665, he was called upon to fight, having a joint commission with [[Prince Rupert of

the Rhine|Prince Rupert]] against the Dutch in the Second Anglo-Dutch War. The whole burden of the

preparations fell upon him. On 23 April 1666 the admirals joined the fleet, and on 1 June 1666

began the great Four Days Battle, in which Monck showed not only all his old coolness and skill, but also

a reckless daring which had seemed hitherto foreign to his character. As this recklessness had cost the

English many ships, command of the fleet was taken from him and given to Rupert, whom he would accompany in

the St James's Day Battle, the last battle at sea in which he would participate. Later in the same year he

maintained order in the city of London during the Great Fire.


(this can be put more pithily, since the only really important point is that he fought in the Second

Anglo-Dutch War)


Isle of Rhe


(This is normally spelled as Isle of Ré or the French Île de Ré)

PainMan 23:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Venner's Second Rising ensured the continuation of the British Standing Army and led directly to the Code of Clarendon or Five Acts suppressing Dissenters until the reign of James II. Venner's fifty men held off several thousands troops in central London in 1660/1--Streona (talk) 14:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Bias

This article over-glorifies this figure to a great extent. Thedreamdied 19:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC) reply

Abdael...

Poets such as Dryden refer to George as Abdael. Can someone explain in the article what this name comes from and what poems it appears in? Kingturtle ( talk) 19:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC) reply

New file File:George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle by Samuel Cooper.jpg

Recently the file File:George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle by Samuel Cooper.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 20:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC) reply

the slaughter of innocents

I notice the severe lack of mention, the fact he killed over 1200 soldiers and citizens of dundee, including 200 women and children then masicared the town the in the days afterwards, disposing of the bodies in mass graves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.91.8 ( talk) 22:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC) reply

His massacre of men, women and children in the Highlands, and his campaign of burning townships there, is also not mentioned. Whitewash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.107.120 ( talk) 18:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC) reply

character section

I notice that the character section consists of two old quotes. Is there a modern assessment that we can include? Bazuz ( talk) 12:13, 20 October 2011 (UTC) reply

Discussion of his wife

The character of Monck's wife is certainly dragged through the mud in several sections of this article. Perhaps everything that is said about her is both true and fully verifiable.... On the other hand, Monck himself was clearly a controversial figure during his own lifetime, with many enemies and many who envied his success. It would not be unusual for some of these to seek to get at him by way of suggestions that his wife was a filthy, foul-mouthed trollope. Can anyone provide access to the conclusions of modern scholars who have looked critically into the contemporary accounts to determine if this is more than politically-motivated character assassination? Nandt1 ( talk) 14:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC) reply

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{ source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC) reply

B class review

Nice work. B class. I added a word and a comma to paragraph 3 of the Introduction. Please use the long dash for date ranges and page ranges. (See: Special characters > Symbols > long dash is after m³.) Djmaschek ( talk) 20:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC) reply

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:George_Monck,_1st_Duke_of_Albemarle&oldid=1216970747"

Videos

Youtube | Vimeo | Bing

Websites

Google | Yahoo | Bing

Encyclopedia

Google | Yahoo | Bing

Facebook




Top Of Page

Home • Search • Translate

© CSE