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There is no explanation as to what plantagenet means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 14:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Shouldnt this article really be called Geoffrey, Duke of Normandy? Duke is a higher title than Count? The Quill ( talk) 12:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
In the 2000 publication The Plantagenet Chronicles, they give 1128 not 1129 as the year of Geoffrey's birth. Is there any way to verify which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.25.55 ( talk) 16:45, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Geoffry was two times ´King of Jerusalem´ (before his son and behind) - He is THE primogenitor of Europe. He was a HERO. There is existing a wonderfull drawing of him! (without name) For this famous detection, I want the title ´SIR´ from the Queen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.128.208.56 ( talk) 16:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Pastoureau is making a quibble about the quality of the sourcing that is well understood but not considered noteworthy - by his criteria, we can't say that Harold II was king of England, because there is no surviving evidence of that from his lifetime. His position represents one voice, flying in the face of consensus (or perhaps just being hypercritical to make a point), not a new consensus. Agricolae ( talk) 21:57, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I’m not sure why you want to suppress a genuine disagreement among experts, in favor of an outdated consensus, but a couple of your sources provide useful information that could be (& now have been) incorporated into the article. (Some of the popular sources & guidebooks I would dismiss as just parroting older material, but the Gage & Bradbury seem helpful. Note that Bradbury states that “this is often discredited” -- not *was* but *is*. Sounds like an ongoing controversy to me.) BTW, can you provide the page number for Gage? I especially think Pastoureau’s statement that “So Geoffrey Plantagenet probably never bore arms” is especially significant here. Please stop taking it out.
As to your scold about my “sockpuppetry”, I won’t even dignify it with a response. Valerius Tygart ( talk) 13:00, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
I removed the word "teenager" and a potted bio of William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury from the "Early Heraldry" section. It was reverted with this edit summary: "well the entire term "Dark Ages" is a pejorative and outdated misnomer based on old lack of info of the period, anyway don't push POV".
This seems to make no sense whatsoever. I only used the expression "Dark Ages" in my edit summary, and regardless of what one calls the period, the word "teenager" conveys an impression of a social status between child and adult which only emerged in the 1920s. It is not remotely sensible to use it about a 12th century nobleman.
I also don't see how I'm "pushing a POV" when I remove some detail which is in my view unnecessary. The point of the section is that Geoffrey Plantagenet's badge was used by his descendants, not to tell the reader all about those descendants. Pinkbeast ( talk) 14:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm not going to just revert this out without discussion now it's cited, but I think the recent edit re the paternity of his descendants is pretty pointless. There were illegitimate children in the Middle Ages - this is about as notable as the news that the Sun rises in the East. Furthermore, the connection of this result to Geoffrey Plantagenet seems tenuous at best, since the cite initially places the break somewhere after Edward III (not that this should be taken as endorsement of putting this on any later Plantagenet's page) and then says actually we don't even know that.
I would say it certainly doesn't belong in the lead, but I don't want to imply it belongs anywhere else in the article. The result that Richard III's corpse was actually Richard III's corpse was interesting; that some illegitimate children occur between 1133 and the present day would be meaningless trivia apart from the convention that trivia is typically in some way surprising. Pinkbeast ( talk) 17:54, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:53, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph of Funerary plaque of, seeking detail showing the lining of his cloak, for
tincture (heraldry)#Vair_and_its_variants be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
There is no explanation as to what plantagenet means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 ( talk) 14:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Shouldnt this article really be called Geoffrey, Duke of Normandy? Duke is a higher title than Count? The Quill ( talk) 12:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
In the 2000 publication The Plantagenet Chronicles, they give 1128 not 1129 as the year of Geoffrey's birth. Is there any way to verify which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.25.55 ( talk) 16:45, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Geoffry was two times ´King of Jerusalem´ (before his son and behind) - He is THE primogenitor of Europe. He was a HERO. There is existing a wonderfull drawing of him! (without name) For this famous detection, I want the title ´SIR´ from the Queen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.128.208.56 ( talk) 16:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Pastoureau is making a quibble about the quality of the sourcing that is well understood but not considered noteworthy - by his criteria, we can't say that Harold II was king of England, because there is no surviving evidence of that from his lifetime. His position represents one voice, flying in the face of consensus (or perhaps just being hypercritical to make a point), not a new consensus. Agricolae ( talk) 21:57, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I’m not sure why you want to suppress a genuine disagreement among experts, in favor of an outdated consensus, but a couple of your sources provide useful information that could be (& now have been) incorporated into the article. (Some of the popular sources & guidebooks I would dismiss as just parroting older material, but the Gage & Bradbury seem helpful. Note that Bradbury states that “this is often discredited” -- not *was* but *is*. Sounds like an ongoing controversy to me.) BTW, can you provide the page number for Gage? I especially think Pastoureau’s statement that “So Geoffrey Plantagenet probably never bore arms” is especially significant here. Please stop taking it out.
As to your scold about my “sockpuppetry”, I won’t even dignify it with a response. Valerius Tygart ( talk) 13:00, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
I removed the word "teenager" and a potted bio of William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury from the "Early Heraldry" section. It was reverted with this edit summary: "well the entire term "Dark Ages" is a pejorative and outdated misnomer based on old lack of info of the period, anyway don't push POV".
This seems to make no sense whatsoever. I only used the expression "Dark Ages" in my edit summary, and regardless of what one calls the period, the word "teenager" conveys an impression of a social status between child and adult which only emerged in the 1920s. It is not remotely sensible to use it about a 12th century nobleman.
I also don't see how I'm "pushing a POV" when I remove some detail which is in my view unnecessary. The point of the section is that Geoffrey Plantagenet's badge was used by his descendants, not to tell the reader all about those descendants. Pinkbeast ( talk) 14:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm not going to just revert this out without discussion now it's cited, but I think the recent edit re the paternity of his descendants is pretty pointless. There were illegitimate children in the Middle Ages - this is about as notable as the news that the Sun rises in the East. Furthermore, the connection of this result to Geoffrey Plantagenet seems tenuous at best, since the cite initially places the break somewhere after Edward III (not that this should be taken as endorsement of putting this on any later Plantagenet's page) and then says actually we don't even know that.
I would say it certainly doesn't belong in the lead, but I don't want to imply it belongs anywhere else in the article. The result that Richard III's corpse was actually Richard III's corpse was interesting; that some illegitimate children occur between 1133 and the present day would be meaningless trivia apart from the convention that trivia is typically in some way surprising. Pinkbeast ( talk) 17:54, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:53, 15 April 2023 (UTC)