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The contents of the 1421: The Year China Discovered the World page were merged into Gavin Menzies. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The contents of the 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance page were merged into Gavin Menzies. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I was under the impression that a Wiki entry should be about the subject. It seems that most of the information here DEBUNKS the book. It seems out of proportion with the amount of space devoted to describing the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.75.153 ( talk) 20:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
That's exactly it, this article is nothing more than criticism. From the beginning paragraph there is a clear agenda to discredit the man, and obvious underlying assumptions are supported with random critique of character and qualification. Even the man's service record (during a Cold War hushed in secret) is brought into question.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Threebillygoats ( talk • contribs) 01:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Now I see the first comment may have been a bit ambiguous, sorry. In no way does the article break from academic structure; in fact, one could argue that the content is over-sourced and entirely unoriginal, which is what I'm really trying to get at here.. The "uncited subjective notes of opinion" are subtle, underlying assumptions only partly masked by citation of "reliable sources." The article is fairly well structured and written, but the cited facts serve a certain context of the story, rather than the story itself. A decent book review I suppose, but inadequate as a short biography. Threebillygoats ( talk) 04:41, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
It's really an attack on his books, which wouldn't be a problem if done correctly and not misusing Wikipedia's proceedings. You made an inversion: created an article supposedly about the person, but starts it commenting the controversies on the books, puts "gender: pseudohistory" above, and creates the topic "Biography" below. The correct (usual in Wikipedia) would be to start with a summary biography, where you might even cite the books and the polemics around them, and after create below the topic "Controversies" to detail and explore the criticisms against his works. Paolo E F Maurício ( talk) 04:09, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
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I'm not sure if this article is about author Gavin Menzies or it's a platform for people who hate on his books.
Shouldn't most of the comments be located on a page about the books, not a person's page?
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Put the Category:Academic people related to Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories on this page because he is related to a Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theorie which shows a Chinese landfall in America before Christopher Columbus arrive in America in 1492. 191.180.142.106 ( talk) 14:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
"Off topic" content copied, as suggested, from Wikipedia:Requests for page protection:
———————————————————————————
Temporary semi-protection: The ip said everything was a personal attack and removed most of the sources. Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The IP is removing citations that show that his work as been debunked and is POV pushing Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:48, 24 July 2019 (UTC) like this,
On 21 July 2004, the Public Broadcasting System (PBS) broadcast a two-hour-long documentary debunking all of Menzies's major claims, featuring professional Chinese historians. [1] In 2004, historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof". [2] Finlay wrote:
National University of Singapore, acknowledges that there was a cross exchange of technological ideas between Europe and China, but ultimately classifies Menzies' book as historical fiction and asserts that there is "absolutely no Chinese evidence" for a maritime venture to Italy in 1434. [3] Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:51, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gavin_Menzies&diff=907735350&oldid=907733521
1.)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1386655/Explorer-from-China-who-beat-Columbus-to-America.html
2.)
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/ancient-chinese-explorers/
3.)
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/community/2005/11/29/documentary-on-zheng-hes-adventures/
4.)
http://thephotosociety.org/products/zheng-he-tracing-the-epic-voyages-of-chinas-greatest-explorer/
5.)
https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/august/the-greatest-explorer-you-never-heard-of.asp
6.)
https://www.ancient.eu/article/1334/the-seven-voyages-of-zheng-he/
7.)
https://www.thehindu.com/thread/arts-culture-society/article8120894.ece — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
2600:1011:B004:1D90:7C9B:B7CC:547C:B8D8 (
talk) 22:59, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The ip is still pov pushing and Removing Content Jack90s15 ( talk) 23:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gavin_Menzies&action=history
———————————————————————————
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gavin Menzies article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 3 months |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to pseudoscience and fringe science, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
The contents of the 1421: The Year China Discovered the World page were merged into Gavin Menzies. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The contents of the 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance page were merged into Gavin Menzies. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I was under the impression that a Wiki entry should be about the subject. It seems that most of the information here DEBUNKS the book. It seems out of proportion with the amount of space devoted to describing the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.75.153 ( talk) 20:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
That's exactly it, this article is nothing more than criticism. From the beginning paragraph there is a clear agenda to discredit the man, and obvious underlying assumptions are supported with random critique of character and qualification. Even the man's service record (during a Cold War hushed in secret) is brought into question.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Threebillygoats ( talk • contribs) 01:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Now I see the first comment may have been a bit ambiguous, sorry. In no way does the article break from academic structure; in fact, one could argue that the content is over-sourced and entirely unoriginal, which is what I'm really trying to get at here.. The "uncited subjective notes of opinion" are subtle, underlying assumptions only partly masked by citation of "reliable sources." The article is fairly well structured and written, but the cited facts serve a certain context of the story, rather than the story itself. A decent book review I suppose, but inadequate as a short biography. Threebillygoats ( talk) 04:41, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
It's really an attack on his books, which wouldn't be a problem if done correctly and not misusing Wikipedia's proceedings. You made an inversion: created an article supposedly about the person, but starts it commenting the controversies on the books, puts "gender: pseudohistory" above, and creates the topic "Biography" below. The correct (usual in Wikipedia) would be to start with a summary biography, where you might even cite the books and the polemics around them, and after create below the topic "Controversies" to detail and explore the criticisms against his works. Paolo E F Maurício ( talk) 04:09, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Gavin Menzies. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:32, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this article is about author Gavin Menzies or it's a platform for people who hate on his books.
Shouldn't most of the comments be located on a page about the books, not a person's page?
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Put the Category:Academic people related to Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories on this page because he is related to a Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theorie which shows a Chinese landfall in America before Christopher Columbus arrive in America in 1492. 191.180.142.106 ( talk) 14:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
"Off topic" content copied, as suggested, from Wikipedia:Requests for page protection:
———————————————————————————
Temporary semi-protection: The ip said everything was a personal attack and removed most of the sources. Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The IP is removing citations that show that his work as been debunked and is POV pushing Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:48, 24 July 2019 (UTC) like this,
On 21 July 2004, the Public Broadcasting System (PBS) broadcast a two-hour-long documentary debunking all of Menzies's major claims, featuring professional Chinese historians. [1] In 2004, historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof". [2] Finlay wrote:
National University of Singapore, acknowledges that there was a cross exchange of technological ideas between Europe and China, but ultimately classifies Menzies' book as historical fiction and asserts that there is "absolutely no Chinese evidence" for a maritime venture to Italy in 1434. [3] Jack90s15 ( talk) 22:51, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gavin_Menzies&diff=907735350&oldid=907733521
1.)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/1386655/Explorer-from-China-who-beat-Columbus-to-America.html
2.)
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/ancient-chinese-explorers/
3.)
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/community/2005/11/29/documentary-on-zheng-hes-adventures/
4.)
http://thephotosociety.org/products/zheng-he-tracing-the-epic-voyages-of-chinas-greatest-explorer/
5.)
https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/august/the-greatest-explorer-you-never-heard-of.asp
6.)
https://www.ancient.eu/article/1334/the-seven-voyages-of-zheng-he/
7.)
https://www.thehindu.com/thread/arts-culture-society/article8120894.ece — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
2600:1011:B004:1D90:7C9B:B7CC:547C:B8D8 (
talk) 22:59, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The ip is still pov pushing and Removing Content Jack90s15 ( talk) 23:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gavin_Menzies&action=history
———————————————————————————