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I created the " Ethical challenges to autism treatment" article because the autism rights movement article was getting too big. The section on "Historic prognosis ..." I did not write but I do have some concerns about neutrality of that section. I was able to prefix some opinions in that section with things like "it is the opinion of autism rights activists ..." but I don't know enough about the topic to edit it more than that. I'd like for someone else who knows more about that topic to check that section and make sure it is neutral. Q0 03:28, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The section historic prognosis for permanently institutionalized autistic children was flagged as having weasel terms. Please try to improve as necessary. - Frazzydee| ✍ 04:14, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Medical professionals I have talked to, as well as an instruction for Swedish healthcare personell which I don't have anymore, stated that neuroleptics should never be administered to people with pervasive developmental disorders (I believe it mentioned ADHD and Asperger explicitly, though I assume the same goes for autism), unless it is the only way to prevent immediate risk of significant harm to the patient or others. The reason for this was, as I recall, that these people are more sensitive to long-term effects than neurotypicals. Anecdotally, I have PDD/NOS with features of ADD and Asperger, and got severe long-term effects from a single 5mg dose of Nozinan, including but not limited to severe cognitive, personality, motor and hormonal changes. Some of these have slowly started to reverse after 3 years, starting after a prolonged course of treatment with dopaminergic drugs. Of course, that can't be in the article, but it bears searching for further information about the topic. Zuiram 06:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
The following section, without an outside citation, is original research and really shouldn't be in here. Furthermore, it doesn't actually say anything about autism aside from OIL being one of the pioneers of autism treatment. Wikipedia can't make arguments, it can only report pre-existing arguments from reliable sources. WLU 14:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM until it was removed in 1973 mostly due to political activism and controversy. Some ABA critics have noted there are still efforts to "cure" homosexuality through " reparative therapy", although the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is unchangeable. [1] Ivar Lovaas, generally considered to be the father of behavioral interventions for autism, is one of the authors of a 1974 article titled Behavioral treatment of deviant sex role behaviors in a male child published in the Journal of Applied Behavioral Analysis [2].
How can you possibly do a double blind study of a behavior modification technique? I think it would always be pretty obvious to the subject whether they were receiving behavior modification or not. That's like saying there are no double-blind studies proving that incisions in the skin cause bleeding. 71.63.105.172 16:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I had the same reaction as the previous poster. Ive hear criticism like this from a speech therapist, and I thought "gee, don't you have the same problem?". How would any therapist not know what treatment they are giving to a patient if it involves knowing information about the patient. Hornung9 02:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Or Alternating Treatment Design... yay single case design! I am highly supportive of your work Josh. - Hornung9 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornung9 ( talk • contribs) 02:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Modern medicine sees all mental illness including austism, deriving only from the brain - primarily from neurotransmitter imbalance and nothing else - the truth is that in many cases there is often an underlining physical cause (eg: infection, celiac disease, etc) and this is often never investigated, and so its no wonder today we are faced with the current tragedy that the Mentally ill die 25 years earlier, on average!. We have found many interesting medical studies such as: 'Enterocolitis in children with Autism' 'an autopsy of 82 patients who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Gastritis was found in 50%, enteritis in 85% and colitis in 92%.' read more... '99% certain of a genetic association between schizophrenia and coeliac disease' Gut and mental illness
I 'nominated' -- not sure if I just added a template, or if a bot will bring this to someone who'll render judgement...but anyway, I'm looking at the article and finding no sources that back up any of this being 'an ethical challenge' -- we have a website for DAN and under the ABA heading -- you have the 'ABA Controversy' Ethical_challenges_to_autism_treatment#ABA_controversy. The first 7 sources are in support of ABA as an ethical treatment -- so it seems that the 'sourced info' contraindicates ABA being in this page...Drug Therapy's 'ethical challenge' also not a challenge to ethics -- just a bit of unsourced information about drug treatment...again, I think this page should be removed as it is not about ethical challenges that are sourced at all. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 20:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
<undent>Do you have any sources that are not autism rights related that discuss ethics of ABA? I haven't heard of one...so I don't agree with your statement 'its a separate issue' Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 18:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Fenke, FC is not only used w/autism, but also DD, CP, and brain injuries...and it has been debunked not as a treatment for autism, but treatment for anything -- I view this differently than the medications for autism -- they're only ethically indicated for treatment of autism -- the argument isn't that antidepressants aren't good for treatment; it is that they aren't good for the treatment of autism. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 23:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
There have been no efforts to cite much of this -- I'll begin to remove non-related copy as well as non-cited copy until we have a well-cited article. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 02:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed a merge back into the Autism Rights Movement - there is some discussion above why this may be a good or bad idea. All points should have some sort of source, rather than your OR. I will being, I see no verifiable information in this article that would not fit under the same heading under the Autism_rights_movement. In fact, the majority of verifiable information on this page is opposing the inclusion of those topics as ethical challenges. Please discuss. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 03:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
<undent> I agree with WLU -- Fenke, here's how I show the merge is appropriate:
Furthermore, I'm simply saying, either source the material, or I'm deleting it; if it is not sourced quickly, there'll be no material left -- and instead of a merge, we'll have an empty page that will be marked for speedy deletion for lack of content. I'm trying to facilitate you(or whomever else thinks this info is important) keeping whatever you can salvage from this mess of an article and merge it into the ARM article. I continue to stand by my statement that it is not notable on its own -- you have yet to refute any of the statements I have made indicating why it should be merged. Therefore -- do you have a reason to oppose the merge, or shall we begin the merging? Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 03:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
I created the " Ethical challenges to autism treatment" article because the autism rights movement article was getting too big. The section on "Historic prognosis ..." I did not write but I do have some concerns about neutrality of that section. I was able to prefix some opinions in that section with things like "it is the opinion of autism rights activists ..." but I don't know enough about the topic to edit it more than that. I'd like for someone else who knows more about that topic to check that section and make sure it is neutral. Q0 03:28, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The section historic prognosis for permanently institutionalized autistic children was flagged as having weasel terms. Please try to improve as necessary. - Frazzydee| ✍ 04:14, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Medical professionals I have talked to, as well as an instruction for Swedish healthcare personell which I don't have anymore, stated that neuroleptics should never be administered to people with pervasive developmental disorders (I believe it mentioned ADHD and Asperger explicitly, though I assume the same goes for autism), unless it is the only way to prevent immediate risk of significant harm to the patient or others. The reason for this was, as I recall, that these people are more sensitive to long-term effects than neurotypicals. Anecdotally, I have PDD/NOS with features of ADD and Asperger, and got severe long-term effects from a single 5mg dose of Nozinan, including but not limited to severe cognitive, personality, motor and hormonal changes. Some of these have slowly started to reverse after 3 years, starting after a prolonged course of treatment with dopaminergic drugs. Of course, that can't be in the article, but it bears searching for further information about the topic. Zuiram 06:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
The following section, without an outside citation, is original research and really shouldn't be in here. Furthermore, it doesn't actually say anything about autism aside from OIL being one of the pioneers of autism treatment. Wikipedia can't make arguments, it can only report pre-existing arguments from reliable sources. WLU 14:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM until it was removed in 1973 mostly due to political activism and controversy. Some ABA critics have noted there are still efforts to "cure" homosexuality through " reparative therapy", although the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is unchangeable. [1] Ivar Lovaas, generally considered to be the father of behavioral interventions for autism, is one of the authors of a 1974 article titled Behavioral treatment of deviant sex role behaviors in a male child published in the Journal of Applied Behavioral Analysis [2].
How can you possibly do a double blind study of a behavior modification technique? I think it would always be pretty obvious to the subject whether they were receiving behavior modification or not. That's like saying there are no double-blind studies proving that incisions in the skin cause bleeding. 71.63.105.172 16:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I had the same reaction as the previous poster. Ive hear criticism like this from a speech therapist, and I thought "gee, don't you have the same problem?". How would any therapist not know what treatment they are giving to a patient if it involves knowing information about the patient. Hornung9 02:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Or Alternating Treatment Design... yay single case design! I am highly supportive of your work Josh. - Hornung9 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornung9 ( talk • contribs) 02:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Modern medicine sees all mental illness including austism, deriving only from the brain - primarily from neurotransmitter imbalance and nothing else - the truth is that in many cases there is often an underlining physical cause (eg: infection, celiac disease, etc) and this is often never investigated, and so its no wonder today we are faced with the current tragedy that the Mentally ill die 25 years earlier, on average!. We have found many interesting medical studies such as: 'Enterocolitis in children with Autism' 'an autopsy of 82 patients who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Gastritis was found in 50%, enteritis in 85% and colitis in 92%.' read more... '99% certain of a genetic association between schizophrenia and coeliac disease' Gut and mental illness
I 'nominated' -- not sure if I just added a template, or if a bot will bring this to someone who'll render judgement...but anyway, I'm looking at the article and finding no sources that back up any of this being 'an ethical challenge' -- we have a website for DAN and under the ABA heading -- you have the 'ABA Controversy' Ethical_challenges_to_autism_treatment#ABA_controversy. The first 7 sources are in support of ABA as an ethical treatment -- so it seems that the 'sourced info' contraindicates ABA being in this page...Drug Therapy's 'ethical challenge' also not a challenge to ethics -- just a bit of unsourced information about drug treatment...again, I think this page should be removed as it is not about ethical challenges that are sourced at all. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 20:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
<undent>Do you have any sources that are not autism rights related that discuss ethics of ABA? I haven't heard of one...so I don't agree with your statement 'its a separate issue' Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 18:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Fenke, FC is not only used w/autism, but also DD, CP, and brain injuries...and it has been debunked not as a treatment for autism, but treatment for anything -- I view this differently than the medications for autism -- they're only ethically indicated for treatment of autism -- the argument isn't that antidepressants aren't good for treatment; it is that they aren't good for the treatment of autism. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 23:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
There have been no efforts to cite much of this -- I'll begin to remove non-related copy as well as non-cited copy until we have a well-cited article. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 02:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed a merge back into the Autism Rights Movement - there is some discussion above why this may be a good or bad idea. All points should have some sort of source, rather than your OR. I will being, I see no verifiable information in this article that would not fit under the same heading under the Autism_rights_movement. In fact, the majority of verifiable information on this page is opposing the inclusion of those topics as ethical challenges. Please discuss. Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 03:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
<undent> I agree with WLU -- Fenke, here's how I show the merge is appropriate:
Furthermore, I'm simply saying, either source the material, or I'm deleting it; if it is not sourced quickly, there'll be no material left -- and instead of a merge, we'll have an empty page that will be marked for speedy deletion for lack of content. I'm trying to facilitate you(or whomever else thinks this info is important) keeping whatever you can salvage from this mess of an article and merge it into the ARM article. I continue to stand by my statement that it is not notable on its own -- you have yet to refute any of the statements I have made indicating why it should be merged. Therefore -- do you have a reason to oppose the merge, or shall we begin the merging? Josh.Pritchard.DBA ( talk) 03:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)