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Recent news story on a study on ASD children. Parking here for later: https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2017/09/03/horse-riding-reduce-autism-symptoms-children/ Montanabw (talk) 20:20, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
- There's nothing MEDRS (or even SCIRS) appropriate about that source or the primary study it's reporting on. Nothing really worth mentioning here on the talk page, especially in light of previous reviews being critical of the practice. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 02:01, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- We haven't actually done much on autism spectrum stuff here at all due to the overall controversy on this page. The study referenced in the article is from a journal, (here: http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/14/7/776 ) I don't have full text access yet, though. Just parking the link for access to the underlying study. Montanabw (talk) 00:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
The lead was two sentences, and didn't really reflect the actual article. Upon looking at the changes made since my cursory edit, the small expansio was useful. I added more, as the lead needed some expansion to more accurately summarize the article. I looked over what's sources and stable in the text and threw in a wee bit of the history plus took a stab at a summary on what little we have on physical health stuff. We actually only have meta-analysis sources in the article on the mental health side, there's very little coverage of the review of physical health, the Selby article noted in passing how little has been done and how recent it is. From a cursory look, hippotherapy does seem to have some study in literature on physical therapies of various sorts, though the stuff on benefits for random diseases does appear a bit too full of woo. The autism spectrum stuff and benefits for people with developmental disabilities probably needs expansion eventually, but I don't really see a pressing need to change or update the body text at this point, given that every source and sentence has to be added with consensus. But a two-sentence lead isn't in compliance with WP:LEAD and we should improve it. Montanabw (talk) 00:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I tried to link this article to the French version ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89quith%C3%A9rapie) however it says the article is already linked to "Hippotherapy". Which is confusing because there is no such article on EN Wikipedia, it's just a section within Equire-assisted therapy. I'm not a Wiki expert, if someone can help to fix this... -- Nasht00 ( talk) 09:34, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
I think this article needs a statement somewhere to explain that this topic is not related to Para-equestrian sports. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 19:02, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Maybe, though not sure about why there is a problem. Is there confusion? And actually, therapeutic riding for people with physical disabilities is kind of connected... Montanabw (talk) 03:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
This section is just about incomprehensible. It needs to be re-written (or deleted?). In addition, the sources that support all say nearly identical things, in the same words, so I suspect they are all taken from the same press release. That makes me wonder whether this section is encyclopedic at all, or is just there to promote this business.-- Gronk Oz ( talk) 12:48, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- I removed the section. It definitely comes across as buzzwordy/promotional in the sense that it has a lot of words yet comes across as vague. If it were a specific area worth mentioning here, there should be better sources specifically carving it out.
KoA (
talk) 18:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that it was incomprehensible gibberish, but it’s a “thing” that’s out there, usually seen either as some kind of executive team-building activity or just one of other assorted New Age personal growth type programs. I took a whack at making it readable and short. Won’t break my heart if it is removed altogether, but I generally suggest giving these things just enough lipservice to keep the next drive by from trying to create a 10,000 word missive in this article.
Montanabw
(talk) 07:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Either way, it's still not an indication it belongs on this specific page. Better to leave it out until it actually can make a case for that, nor is it really being preventative. If anything, increasing the list of buzzwords just encourages more of them.
KoA (
talk) 00:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- You might have a point about the list of buzzwords. Your thoughts on the topic as a standalone article, given that it appears to be a personal growth program that isn’t making medical claims? I’m not interested enough to do it, at least not at this time, but curious if a decent draft at RfC could make it past the speedy deletion phase.
Montanabw
(talk) 05:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- At least in my browsing and the deleted content, I didn't see anything that really set itself up for WP:N, but moreso as a WP:NEOLOGISM right now. I get the feeling someone trying to write something up would fall into common traps of neologisms without much meat or focus in content, but I could always be proven wrong too if someone does decide to really work on it. KoA ( talk) 01:59, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
- You might have a point about the list of buzzwords. Your thoughts on the topic as a standalone article, given that it appears to be a personal growth program that isn’t making medical claims? I’m not interested enough to do it, at least not at this time, but curious if a decent draft at RfC could make it past the speedy deletion phase.
Montanabw
(talk) 05:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- Either way, it's still not an indication it belongs on this specific page. Better to leave it out until it actually can make a case for that, nor is it really being preventative. If anything, increasing the list of buzzwords just encourages more of them.
KoA (
talk) 00:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that it was incomprehensible gibberish, but it’s a “thing” that’s out there, usually seen either as some kind of executive team-building activity or just one of other assorted New Age personal growth type programs. I took a whack at making it readable and short. Won’t break my heart if it is removed altogether, but I generally suggest giving these things just enough lipservice to keep the next drive by from trying to create a 10,000 word missive in this article.
Montanabw
(talk) 07:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
For starters I happen to like spending time with horses myself. However I’m surprised reading this article that there’s no criticism section. Many people are happier after spending some time with the horses and most people if they don’t do something to make themselves happy will eventually become depressed or otherwise have some condition that could be diagnosed and for which someone could suggest equine therapy. So I don’t think that people neglecting themselves and then going to a doctor who says “once you get your COVID vaccine I’m prescribing you an equine at your Obamacare insurance’s expense” is really all that good. Work can heal traumas too, but we don’t have “work therapy.”
There’s other people who have made the same observation so I think that this opinion should be listed on this page amongst the criticisms of such “therapies.” 65.207.199.90 ( talk) 22:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
- You are welcome to make those changes with suitable weight given to reliable sources. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 22:31, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
We can't use Wikipedia articles to promote stuff guys and gals. If you want to make medical claims you need to follow WP:MEDRS. I removed the worst nonsense, but this article is far from perfect. Polygnotus ( talk) 05:12, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I took a stab at some major cleanup way back, but it's good to have other folks keeping an eye out for these sorts of things, especially from the MEDRS perspective.
KoA (
talk) 17:42, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- @ KoA: Please keep this article watchlisted. The presence of animals can certainly have positive effects on people, but that does not mean they have magical wizard powers. Animal-assisted therapy is also far from perfect. Polygnotus ( talk) 17:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
You can't imply or pretend Lis Hartel was cured by a horse. Polio is a horrible disease, you shouldn't joke about such things. Polygnotus ( talk) 17:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Debate about the definition from Animal-assisted therapy
Animal-assisted therapy contained the following text, focusing mainly on the precise definition. Because that is a bit too in depth for an overview article I moved it here for now. Polygnotus ( talk) 18:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
A distinction exists between hippotherapy and therapeutic horseback riding. The American Hippotherapy Association defines hippotherapy as a physical, occupational, and speech-language therapy treatment strategy that utilizes equine movement as part of an integrated intervention program to achieve functional outcomes, while the Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International ( PATH) defines therapeutic riding as a riding lesson specially adapted for people with special needs. [1] According to Marty Becker, hippotherapy programs are active "in twenty-four countries and the horse's functions have expanded to therapeutic riding for people with physical, psychological, cognitive, social, and behavioral problems". [1]: 124 Hippotherapy has also been approved by the American Speech and Hearing Association as a treatment method for individuals with speech disorders. [1] In addition, equine assisted psychotherapy uses horses for work with persons who have mental health issues. Equine assisted psychotherapy often does not involve riding. [2] [3] Additional information pertaining to equine assisted therapy can be seen with Laira Gold's open clinical study of EAT. [4] Polygnotus ( talk) 18:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b c Becker M (2002). The Healing Power of Pets: Harnessing the Amazing Ability of Pets to Make and Keep People Happy and Healthy. New York: Hyperion. ISBN 978-0-7868-6808-7.
- ^ "What is EAP and EAL?". Equine Assisted Growth and Learning Association. Archived from the original on 2012-03-25. Retrieved 2012-03-18.
- ^ Quiroz Rothe E, Jiménez Vega B, Mazo Torres R, Campos Soler SM, Molina RM (2005). "From kids and horses: Equine facilitated psychotherapy for children" (PDF). International Journal of Clinical and Health Psychology. 5 (2): 373–383.
- ^ Bivens A, Leinart D, Klontz B, Klontz T (2007). "The Effectiveness of Equine-Assisted Experiential Therapy: Results of an Open Clinical Trial". Society & Animals. 15 (3): 257–267. doi: 10.1163/156853007x217195.
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| This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Equine-assisted therapy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
|
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 365 days
|
|
| This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 8 sections are present. |
Recent news story on a study on ASD children. Parking here for later: https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2017/09/03/horse-riding-reduce-autism-symptoms-children/ Montanabw (talk) 20:20, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
- There's nothing MEDRS (or even SCIRS) appropriate about that source or the primary study it's reporting on. Nothing really worth mentioning here on the talk page, especially in light of previous reviews being critical of the practice. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 02:01, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- We haven't actually done much on autism spectrum stuff here at all due to the overall controversy on this page. The study referenced in the article is from a journal, (here: http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/14/7/776 ) I don't have full text access yet, though. Just parking the link for access to the underlying study. Montanabw (talk) 00:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
The lead was two sentences, and didn't really reflect the actual article. Upon looking at the changes made since my cursory edit, the small expansio was useful. I added more, as the lead needed some expansion to more accurately summarize the article. I looked over what's sources and stable in the text and threw in a wee bit of the history plus took a stab at a summary on what little we have on physical health stuff. We actually only have meta-analysis sources in the article on the mental health side, there's very little coverage of the review of physical health, the Selby article noted in passing how little has been done and how recent it is. From a cursory look, hippotherapy does seem to have some study in literature on physical therapies of various sorts, though the stuff on benefits for random diseases does appear a bit too full of woo. The autism spectrum stuff and benefits for people with developmental disabilities probably needs expansion eventually, but I don't really see a pressing need to change or update the body text at this point, given that every source and sentence has to be added with consensus. But a two-sentence lead isn't in compliance with WP:LEAD and we should improve it. Montanabw (talk) 00:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I tried to link this article to the French version ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89quith%C3%A9rapie) however it says the article is already linked to "Hippotherapy". Which is confusing because there is no such article on EN Wikipedia, it's just a section within Equire-assisted therapy. I'm not a Wiki expert, if someone can help to fix this... -- Nasht00 ( talk) 09:34, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
I think this article needs a statement somewhere to explain that this topic is not related to Para-equestrian sports. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 19:02, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Maybe, though not sure about why there is a problem. Is there confusion? And actually, therapeutic riding for people with physical disabilities is kind of connected... Montanabw (talk) 03:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
This section is just about incomprehensible. It needs to be re-written (or deleted?). In addition, the sources that support all say nearly identical things, in the same words, so I suspect they are all taken from the same press release. That makes me wonder whether this section is encyclopedic at all, or is just there to promote this business.-- Gronk Oz ( talk) 12:48, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- I removed the section. It definitely comes across as buzzwordy/promotional in the sense that it has a lot of words yet comes across as vague. If it were a specific area worth mentioning here, there should be better sources specifically carving it out.
KoA (
talk) 18:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that it was incomprehensible gibberish, but it’s a “thing” that’s out there, usually seen either as some kind of executive team-building activity or just one of other assorted New Age personal growth type programs. I took a whack at making it readable and short. Won’t break my heart if it is removed altogether, but I generally suggest giving these things just enough lipservice to keep the next drive by from trying to create a 10,000 word missive in this article.
Montanabw
(talk) 07:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Either way, it's still not an indication it belongs on this specific page. Better to leave it out until it actually can make a case for that, nor is it really being preventative. If anything, increasing the list of buzzwords just encourages more of them.
KoA (
talk) 00:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- You might have a point about the list of buzzwords. Your thoughts on the topic as a standalone article, given that it appears to be a personal growth program that isn’t making medical claims? I’m not interested enough to do it, at least not at this time, but curious if a decent draft at RfC could make it past the speedy deletion phase.
Montanabw
(talk) 05:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- At least in my browsing and the deleted content, I didn't see anything that really set itself up for WP:N, but moreso as a WP:NEOLOGISM right now. I get the feeling someone trying to write something up would fall into common traps of neologisms without much meat or focus in content, but I could always be proven wrong too if someone does decide to really work on it. KoA ( talk) 01:59, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
- You might have a point about the list of buzzwords. Your thoughts on the topic as a standalone article, given that it appears to be a personal growth program that isn’t making medical claims? I’m not interested enough to do it, at least not at this time, but curious if a decent draft at RfC could make it past the speedy deletion phase.
Montanabw
(talk) 05:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
- Either way, it's still not an indication it belongs on this specific page. Better to leave it out until it actually can make a case for that, nor is it really being preventative. If anything, increasing the list of buzzwords just encourages more of them.
KoA (
talk) 00:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that it was incomprehensible gibberish, but it’s a “thing” that’s out there, usually seen either as some kind of executive team-building activity or just one of other assorted New Age personal growth type programs. I took a whack at making it readable and short. Won’t break my heart if it is removed altogether, but I generally suggest giving these things just enough lipservice to keep the next drive by from trying to create a 10,000 word missive in this article.
Montanabw
(talk) 07:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
For starters I happen to like spending time with horses myself. However I’m surprised reading this article that there’s no criticism section. Many people are happier after spending some time with the horses and most people if they don’t do something to make themselves happy will eventually become depressed or otherwise have some condition that could be diagnosed and for which someone could suggest equine therapy. So I don’t think that people neglecting themselves and then going to a doctor who says “once you get your COVID vaccine I’m prescribing you an equine at your Obamacare insurance’s expense” is really all that good. Work can heal traumas too, but we don’t have “work therapy.”
There’s other people who have made the same observation so I think that this opinion should be listed on this page amongst the criticisms of such “therapies.” 65.207.199.90 ( talk) 22:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
- You are welcome to make those changes with suitable weight given to reliable sources. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 22:31, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
We can't use Wikipedia articles to promote stuff guys and gals. If you want to make medical claims you need to follow WP:MEDRS. I removed the worst nonsense, but this article is far from perfect. Polygnotus ( talk) 05:12, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I took a stab at some major cleanup way back, but it's good to have other folks keeping an eye out for these sorts of things, especially from the MEDRS perspective.
KoA (
talk) 17:42, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- @ KoA: Please keep this article watchlisted. The presence of animals can certainly have positive effects on people, but that does not mean they have magical wizard powers. Animal-assisted therapy is also far from perfect. Polygnotus ( talk) 17:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
You can't imply or pretend Lis Hartel was cured by a horse. Polio is a horrible disease, you shouldn't joke about such things. Polygnotus ( talk) 17:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Debate about the definition from Animal-assisted therapy
Animal-assisted therapy contained the following text, focusing mainly on the precise definition. Because that is a bit too in depth for an overview article I moved it here for now. Polygnotus ( talk) 18:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
A distinction exists between hippotherapy and therapeutic horseback riding. The American Hippotherapy Association defines hippotherapy as a physical, occupational, and speech-language therapy treatment strategy that utilizes equine movement as part of an integrated intervention program to achieve functional outcomes, while the Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International ( PATH) defines therapeutic riding as a riding lesson specially adapted for people with special needs. [1] According to Marty Becker, hippotherapy programs are active "in twenty-four countries and the horse's functions have expanded to therapeutic riding for people with physical, psychological, cognitive, social, and behavioral problems". [1]: 124 Hippotherapy has also been approved by the American Speech and Hearing Association as a treatment method for individuals with speech disorders. [1] In addition, equine assisted psychotherapy uses horses for work with persons who have mental health issues. Equine assisted psychotherapy often does not involve riding. [2] [3] Additional information pertaining to equine assisted therapy can be seen with Laira Gold's open clinical study of EAT. [4] Polygnotus ( talk) 18:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b c Becker M (2002). The Healing Power of Pets: Harnessing the Amazing Ability of Pets to Make and Keep People Happy and Healthy. New York: Hyperion. ISBN 978-0-7868-6808-7.
- ^ "What is EAP and EAL?". Equine Assisted Growth and Learning Association. Archived from the original on 2012-03-25. Retrieved 2012-03-18.
- ^ Quiroz Rothe E, Jiménez Vega B, Mazo Torres R, Campos Soler SM, Molina RM (2005). "From kids and horses: Equine facilitated psychotherapy for children" (PDF). International Journal of Clinical and Health Psychology. 5 (2): 373–383.
- ^ Bivens A, Leinart D, Klontz B, Klontz T (2007). "The Effectiveness of Equine-Assisted Experiential Therapy: Results of an Open Clinical Trial". Society & Animals. 15 (3): 257–267. doi: 10.1163/156853007x217195.
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