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the are called by an exonym and i sort of think that it is wrong because we should respect their name and not just go around calling them a name that we made up for them and i think that it wrong!
Almost all nativ tribes and people of America have exonyms, off the top of my head: inca, ahh...-- 145.94.41.95 22:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Seems like Iran should be added to the list of examples wherein a country requests not to be refered to by use of an exonym, since it is one of the best known examples of this. Is there a particular reason it isn't included? I'd add it myself, but I don't know the date and circumstances, and have run out of time to research.
Recently included content relating to the conference has been cut entirely (and not transferred to the UN conference article as indicated in my edit summary), with the invitation to tidy it up and include in that article. RealityCheck 11:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to replace the current intro with the following. I'll go ahead and make the change if no objection is lodged:
An exonym is a name for a place or people that is different from the name used in the native language. For example, London is known as Londres in Spanish, French and Portuguese; Londra in Italian and Londýn in Czech and Slovak and Londyn in Polish. The opposite of an exonym is an endonym. Roma is an endonym, while Rome is an exonym.
The use of exonyms is often controversial. Groups often prefer that outsiders avoid exonyms; for example, Roma people prefer that term over exonyms like Gypsy. People may also seek to avoid exonyms due to historical sensitivities, as in the case of German language German names for Polish and Czech places.
In recent years, geographers have sought to reduce the use of exonyms to avoid these kind of problems. For example, it is now common for Latin Americans to refer to the Turkish capital as Ankara rather than use the Spanish exonym Angora.
But according to the United Nations Statistics Division:
Time has, however, shown that initial ambitious attempts to rapidly decrease the number of exonyms were over-optimistic and not possible to realise in the intended way. The reason would appear to be that many exonyms have become common words in a language and can be seen as part of the language’s cultural heritage.
(External links section:)
The article should talk about this, too. For example, the Megleno-Romanians no longer use a word derived from "romanus", but use "vlaşi", derived from Vlach, which was originally an exonym. bogdan 11:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
In fact, "India", which the article calls an exonym, became an endonym quite a while ago, as India and Bharat are both now official terms for the country. עבד יהוה talk 23:42, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Post colonial India is interesting in that recently Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, etc. (all major international airports) have dropped their exonyms in favour of endonyms. Some Indians have felt that this is part of an over-arching pro-Hindi political program - a component of the predominantly Hindi speaking (North-West Indian) power-holders who are working legislatively to drop English as the national language of India in favour of Hindi.
Of course, other exonyms used by the tea trade have also fallen into disuse (Formosa, Ceylon etc.) ( 20040302)
I have reverted the changes made by the user at 128.176.76.xxx (two separate endings; probably the same user). I did replace what he/she wrote about pronunciations but put it in better English. I removed the word "now" (I assume the user meant "current") before "Polish and Czech." All of today's Czech and Polish republics were occupied by the Germans during WWII, so the sentence about German exonyms applies to all Czech and Polish place names. (I'm not going to begin to get into the situation of formerly Polish places now in former Soviet republics.) -- Mwalcoff 00:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Does not "Maghreb" (and related words and spellings) refer to the whole Mediterranean-Coastal region of North-west Africa? Including Tunisia and colastal Algeria? So does not the use of the word by Morrocons refer to a trans-national identity at least as much as it does to the country that in English is known as "Morocco?" Dvd Avins 21:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Changed Cymry to correct spelling, Cymru, which of course does not mean 'Welsh,' but Wales.
Those are two different words and both are correct. 212.76.37.191 22:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I absolutely support using the exonyma in the national languages, because it is a part of our language and culture. But very often it is necessary to use both the exonym and endonym, because many people have troubles with the pronounciation or knowledge of some names. In my opinion it would be nonsense to say in English: I visited Praha. Normally you would say: I visited Prague but you should know that the endonym of Prague is Praha. The same example in the Czech language: You never say: Navštívil jsem London (I visited London) but Navštívil jsem Londýn.
58.179.72.140 changed "exonyms" to "endonyms" for the titles of a couple lists. This change looks wrong for the one that now says "List of English endonyms for peoples" because the English is the exonym. Otherwise, I would agree that the title should say these are endonyms because it really is a lookup for speakers of English that would perhaps only know the exonym already. Maybe just removing "English" makes more sense for that one table. Skapare 04:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Does it really rise to being a case of true exonym, at least for inclusion in a table or list, if the root form is obviously the same and there is only a minor spelling variance to fit the rules of another language? While "Germany" is a true exonym, is "Navarre" (same basic root form over a few languages)? Skapare 04:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Some of the exonym lists are not properly so-called, I think. Definitionally: if a region's population shifts, do the former population's toponyms become exonyms? Think Roman Empire, Kaliningrad Oblast, etc. If a region is inhabited by one population but forms part of a state dominated by another, are the local's toponyms endonyms and the "official" ones imposed by the state's majority exonyms, or vice versa, or something else? Think Brittany, South Tirol, Catalonia, Kosovo, etc. If a region is inhabited by multiple populations, whose is the endonym and whose the exonym? Think Transylvania, portions of Moldova, Lithuania, Ukraine, even Los Angeles vs. Los Ángeles. And how do we know which population is the majority.
Given that I believe some of the lists of exonyms are not truly so, it may be better to rename the lot to XXXian names of places in YYY, leaving the endo- vs. exo- debate to the articles themselves: pretty clear that English names of places in Lithuania, say, are exonyms, but less clear that German or Polish names of places in Lithuania is so, and the status of Russian or Belarussian names of places in Lithuania is murkier still, as is the status of Samogitian names of places in Lithuania.
Any thoughts about name changing the lists?
Carlossuarez46 20:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
On this point, I do not believe South Africa is an exonym, as it is what South Africans call South Africa, when speaking English in South Africa, and English is an official language within South Africa. Moreover Zuid-Afrika does not predate South Africa as the official name of the country. While Dutch was official in the region prior to English, that official status was in the Kaap/Cape colony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.123.76 ( talk) 09:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Surely the endonyms Cymru (Wales), Cymro (Welshman), Cymry (Welsh people, the Welsh) all derivez from cwm "valley" NOT "comrade". needs changing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.78.78.41 ( talk) 18:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC).
I'm not sure if this is even a real word (see Talk:Ethnonym), but if it is, it refers to exactly the same thing as this article. Merge - Jack (talk) 10:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to have the non-English words in some of these lists at least transliterated to English? I mean, it's great that the endonym of Russians is "Русские" but since I can't read Cyrillic characters, I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce this. It's bad enough when I don't know the pronounciation rules of languages that use Latin characters (i.e., Dutch)--with other languages I'm totally lost (and I doubt I'm the only one). :) RobertM525 09:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
autonym is by far the more common term. endonym does not even occur in most dictionaries. I would suggest that the article use the more common terminology. – ishwar (speak) 04:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it make sence to have a separate category called Exonym and to use that instead of Category:Endonyms as many of the terms (article names) found in the list are actually Exonyms and not Endonyms.
I'd like to discuss the possibility of controversial use of endonyms, rather than of exonyms. The ethnic group that often use the endonym "Romani" for themselves, or a variant thereof, are often labelled with an exonym ("Gypsy", "Gitano", etc) based on the incorrect supposition that they originated in Egypt. These exonyms are inappropriate and, as they are frequently applied prejoratively, it is understandable that an endonym is preferred. The endonym is said to derive from the word "rom"/"rrom", in the people's own language, meaning "husband", with "romni"/"rromni" meaning "wife". But the Wikipedia article for the Romani people says that "there are no historical proofs to clarify the etymology of these words". I hear Romanians complaining that they are being associated with this group because the names are similar, and claiming that this group's endonym came into being because its members often come from families that settled in Romania. Is this scenario, their endonym therefore ultimately derives from the some source as the Romanians' - from "Romans" - which is at least as inappropriate as the exonym for this group, considering the lack of any Latin connection. I have no axe to grind - I have never personally had any problems with either ethnic group. But can anybody throw light on the historical basis of using "Romani" as an endonym? Frankieparley 06:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
As written, the article seems to suggest that Serbian is written in the Latin alphabet. My understanding is that Serbs prefer to write their language in the Cyrillic alphabet, while Croats use the Latin alphabet to write what, depending on one's ideology, is either the same language or a closely related one. In any event, should "Serbian" here be "Croatian," or should the section be clarified to note that Serbs use Cyrillic? -- Mr. A. ( talk) 22:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Many Chinese endonyms have successfully become English exonyms, especially city and most province names in mainland China, following Hanyu Pinyin spelling, as the current standard romanisation in China, e.g. Beijing (北京 Běijīng), Guangdong (广东 Guǎngdōng) (province), Qingdao (青岛 Qīngdǎo), although older English exonyms are sometimes used in certain contexts - i.e. Peking (duck, opera, etc.), Canton, Tsintao, etc.
I've removed this statement in the intro:
Some languages use the same spelling as the endonym but change the pronunciation, thus making it an exonym. The English and German pronunciations of Paris, for example, are different from the French one (where the s is silent in modern French), though it is spelled the same in all three languages.
I'd like to see a source on this if it was to be put back in the intro. While it is true that Paris is pronounced differently, most languages sharing the same orthography pronounce their letter differently. If the statement is to be taken at face value, couldn't we make the arguement that many toponyms in Scotland are exonyms when pronounced in American English, that most Latin American toponyms are exonyms in Castillian Spanish and vice versa? And is Japanese for New York, "Nyū Yōku" an exonym even though it follows standard transliteration practice and is the closest aproximation possible in Japanese? o ( talk) 13:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
The missing citation and example farm tags are very relevant. The article has three references, none of them to clearly reliable sources. This is much too few for that amount of text. Secondly most of the article consists of unsourced examples rather than scholarly explanations of the differences between endonyms and exonyms. The tags will have to remain in place untill these issues have been adressed. (for the record I didn't place the tags myself) ·Maunus·ƛ· 22:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
One of the matters attended to by the working group was to polish the definitions of exonym and endonym. Not that we must or should use what anyone with the UN suggests for UN purposes, I include these here in an effort to help someone improve the article as the working group's definitions seem to me more accurate and far less awkward than what we currently have in the introduction.
Presumably, what is currently at http://www.zrc-sazu.si/ungegn/WGE/exonyms.htm are the new definitions:
Definitions agreed:
— RVJ ( talk) 02:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
The UN description of exonym lacks an inclusion of personal names. Has it been too sparingly quoted, or is that a flaw in the UN's work? SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
A section could be made about how some peoples name themselves "men" or "free men", marking the rest as "non-human" or "slaves". Examples are Franks, Roma people, Thai, Inuit. -- Error ( talk) 23:45, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
What is mainly wrong with this article, as I see it, is that it does not explain what is basic to the subject matter: that exonyms were created and then evolved due to a desire with a certain people that they should be able to communicate internally, in a reasonable manner, by using the phonetics of their own language even when talking about foreign places and persons (whose names they had heard). Examples: Gothenburg in English, for Swedish Göteborg, or Catherine in English, for Polish Katarzyna. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Readers of this page may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian exonyms, relating to one of a number of similar lists that were previously discussed in 2007 at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of European exonyms.-- Arxiloxos ( talk) 18:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
English and French still use the plural form of the name, as Greek 'officially' did until katharevousa was finally abandoned in the 1970s. Pamour ( talk) 08:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Chinese Language is not written in alphabets, but in Hanzi. When writing Chinese city names in English, one needs transliteration or romanisation, where more than one standards exist. Hanyu Pinyin is currently the most popular, because the "PRC" makes it standard and replaces standards used by the Republic of China Government. Hence it is inappropriate to say Peking (北京 using Chinese Postal Map Romanization, officially used by the ROC) is an English exonym but Beijing (北京 using Hanyu Pinyin, officially used by the "PRC") is a Chinese endonym; both should be classified into the same class. Unmistakable English exonyms of Chinese cities include Canton (廣州, Guangzhou), Port Arthur (旅順, Lüshunkou). -- Jabo-er ( talk) 06:51, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Removed this just now from the lede. Please! Where do opinionated judgements like this come from? Let's not engage in near mud slinging w/o sources! -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 23:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
, often derogatory or offensive. ditto. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 23:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
The part about Chinese place names was confusing to me. I think the old English names should be mentioned along with the new Hanyu pinyin names, not everyone knows that Canton is Guangdong. And the way the paragraph is structured, it is not clear if the Republic of China (Taiwan) has also made Hanyu Pinyin the standard in 1979 or not. It turns out it has done so, but only in 2008, and in practise nobody uses it for place names. So while "Beijing" has replaced "Peking" in the PRC, "Jinmen" has not yet replaced "Kinmen" in Taiwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.6.39.147 ( talk) 08:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Those cities mentioned are usually still called "Naples" and "Turin" in England, although the football team is usually called Napoli. Juventus are far more famous here than Torino, if you ask someone in England "which city are Juventus from" the reply will be "Turin". Of course this doesn't affect Milan, whose team officially uses the English name. It is also worth mentioning one obsolete English exonym that survives mainly as the name of a football team: River Plate. Walshie79 ( talk) 00:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
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Unless requested sources are added in the next month or so, I will be deleting huge chunks of unsourced POV & conjecture here. Boxes look awful. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:10, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
The English name "Athens" is derived from ancient Greek (not from modern Greek, as is misleadingly implied in the article). The plural "-s" ending reflects the fact that the Ancient Greek name was plural (while the modern Greek name is singular -- in ancient Greek, the singular form was the name of the goddess Athena, not of the city)... AnonMoos ( talk) 12:53, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
While many of the names for London are true exonyms (where the spelling in latin script is different), are the exonyms in Armenian, Persian and Vietnamese true exonyms rather than standard transcriptions? The Armenian rendered in latin script is "London". OsFish ( talk) 01:45, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Cisgender/Cisgenderism is an Exonym. It was given to non-trans people by Trans people. Should it be mentioned here? Fishchaircan ( talk) 09:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Tye original research template was added here, but I'm not sure where the concern is. Newystats ( talk) 22:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
In the page Gitanos, the words endonym and exonym both link to this page. The 'floater' text you see when you hover over the word uses the same first sentence of this article for both words - this means the definition for 'endonym' is correct, but the definition for 'exonym' is wrong, as it's giving the endonym definition a second time. This seems like a Wikipedia-wide issue, but is there any way to fix it for this page specifically? (Apologies for any format issues, I'm a noob) 2600:6C50:7F:B4BC:9186:A98F:E498:8C4D ( talk) 07:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
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the are called by an exonym and i sort of think that it is wrong because we should respect their name and not just go around calling them a name that we made up for them and i think that it wrong!
Almost all nativ tribes and people of America have exonyms, off the top of my head: inca, ahh...-- 145.94.41.95 22:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Seems like Iran should be added to the list of examples wherein a country requests not to be refered to by use of an exonym, since it is one of the best known examples of this. Is there a particular reason it isn't included? I'd add it myself, but I don't know the date and circumstances, and have run out of time to research.
Recently included content relating to the conference has been cut entirely (and not transferred to the UN conference article as indicated in my edit summary), with the invitation to tidy it up and include in that article. RealityCheck 11:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to replace the current intro with the following. I'll go ahead and make the change if no objection is lodged:
An exonym is a name for a place or people that is different from the name used in the native language. For example, London is known as Londres in Spanish, French and Portuguese; Londra in Italian and Londýn in Czech and Slovak and Londyn in Polish. The opposite of an exonym is an endonym. Roma is an endonym, while Rome is an exonym.
The use of exonyms is often controversial. Groups often prefer that outsiders avoid exonyms; for example, Roma people prefer that term over exonyms like Gypsy. People may also seek to avoid exonyms due to historical sensitivities, as in the case of German language German names for Polish and Czech places.
In recent years, geographers have sought to reduce the use of exonyms to avoid these kind of problems. For example, it is now common for Latin Americans to refer to the Turkish capital as Ankara rather than use the Spanish exonym Angora.
But according to the United Nations Statistics Division:
Time has, however, shown that initial ambitious attempts to rapidly decrease the number of exonyms were over-optimistic and not possible to realise in the intended way. The reason would appear to be that many exonyms have become common words in a language and can be seen as part of the language’s cultural heritage.
(External links section:)
The article should talk about this, too. For example, the Megleno-Romanians no longer use a word derived from "romanus", but use "vlaşi", derived from Vlach, which was originally an exonym. bogdan 11:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
In fact, "India", which the article calls an exonym, became an endonym quite a while ago, as India and Bharat are both now official terms for the country. עבד יהוה talk 23:42, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Post colonial India is interesting in that recently Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, etc. (all major international airports) have dropped their exonyms in favour of endonyms. Some Indians have felt that this is part of an over-arching pro-Hindi political program - a component of the predominantly Hindi speaking (North-West Indian) power-holders who are working legislatively to drop English as the national language of India in favour of Hindi.
Of course, other exonyms used by the tea trade have also fallen into disuse (Formosa, Ceylon etc.) ( 20040302)
I have reverted the changes made by the user at 128.176.76.xxx (two separate endings; probably the same user). I did replace what he/she wrote about pronunciations but put it in better English. I removed the word "now" (I assume the user meant "current") before "Polish and Czech." All of today's Czech and Polish republics were occupied by the Germans during WWII, so the sentence about German exonyms applies to all Czech and Polish place names. (I'm not going to begin to get into the situation of formerly Polish places now in former Soviet republics.) -- Mwalcoff 00:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Does not "Maghreb" (and related words and spellings) refer to the whole Mediterranean-Coastal region of North-west Africa? Including Tunisia and colastal Algeria? So does not the use of the word by Morrocons refer to a trans-national identity at least as much as it does to the country that in English is known as "Morocco?" Dvd Avins 21:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Changed Cymry to correct spelling, Cymru, which of course does not mean 'Welsh,' but Wales.
Those are two different words and both are correct. 212.76.37.191 22:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I absolutely support using the exonyma in the national languages, because it is a part of our language and culture. But very often it is necessary to use both the exonym and endonym, because many people have troubles with the pronounciation or knowledge of some names. In my opinion it would be nonsense to say in English: I visited Praha. Normally you would say: I visited Prague but you should know that the endonym of Prague is Praha. The same example in the Czech language: You never say: Navštívil jsem London (I visited London) but Navštívil jsem Londýn.
58.179.72.140 changed "exonyms" to "endonyms" for the titles of a couple lists. This change looks wrong for the one that now says "List of English endonyms for peoples" because the English is the exonym. Otherwise, I would agree that the title should say these are endonyms because it really is a lookup for speakers of English that would perhaps only know the exonym already. Maybe just removing "English" makes more sense for that one table. Skapare 04:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Does it really rise to being a case of true exonym, at least for inclusion in a table or list, if the root form is obviously the same and there is only a minor spelling variance to fit the rules of another language? While "Germany" is a true exonym, is "Navarre" (same basic root form over a few languages)? Skapare 04:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Some of the exonym lists are not properly so-called, I think. Definitionally: if a region's population shifts, do the former population's toponyms become exonyms? Think Roman Empire, Kaliningrad Oblast, etc. If a region is inhabited by one population but forms part of a state dominated by another, are the local's toponyms endonyms and the "official" ones imposed by the state's majority exonyms, or vice versa, or something else? Think Brittany, South Tirol, Catalonia, Kosovo, etc. If a region is inhabited by multiple populations, whose is the endonym and whose the exonym? Think Transylvania, portions of Moldova, Lithuania, Ukraine, even Los Angeles vs. Los Ángeles. And how do we know which population is the majority.
Given that I believe some of the lists of exonyms are not truly so, it may be better to rename the lot to XXXian names of places in YYY, leaving the endo- vs. exo- debate to the articles themselves: pretty clear that English names of places in Lithuania, say, are exonyms, but less clear that German or Polish names of places in Lithuania is so, and the status of Russian or Belarussian names of places in Lithuania is murkier still, as is the status of Samogitian names of places in Lithuania.
Any thoughts about name changing the lists?
Carlossuarez46 20:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
On this point, I do not believe South Africa is an exonym, as it is what South Africans call South Africa, when speaking English in South Africa, and English is an official language within South Africa. Moreover Zuid-Afrika does not predate South Africa as the official name of the country. While Dutch was official in the region prior to English, that official status was in the Kaap/Cape colony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.123.76 ( talk) 09:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Surely the endonyms Cymru (Wales), Cymro (Welshman), Cymry (Welsh people, the Welsh) all derivez from cwm "valley" NOT "comrade". needs changing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.78.78.41 ( talk) 18:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC).
I'm not sure if this is even a real word (see Talk:Ethnonym), but if it is, it refers to exactly the same thing as this article. Merge - Jack (talk) 10:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to have the non-English words in some of these lists at least transliterated to English? I mean, it's great that the endonym of Russians is "Русские" but since I can't read Cyrillic characters, I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce this. It's bad enough when I don't know the pronounciation rules of languages that use Latin characters (i.e., Dutch)--with other languages I'm totally lost (and I doubt I'm the only one). :) RobertM525 09:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
autonym is by far the more common term. endonym does not even occur in most dictionaries. I would suggest that the article use the more common terminology. – ishwar (speak) 04:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it make sence to have a separate category called Exonym and to use that instead of Category:Endonyms as many of the terms (article names) found in the list are actually Exonyms and not Endonyms.
I'd like to discuss the possibility of controversial use of endonyms, rather than of exonyms. The ethnic group that often use the endonym "Romani" for themselves, or a variant thereof, are often labelled with an exonym ("Gypsy", "Gitano", etc) based on the incorrect supposition that they originated in Egypt. These exonyms are inappropriate and, as they are frequently applied prejoratively, it is understandable that an endonym is preferred. The endonym is said to derive from the word "rom"/"rrom", in the people's own language, meaning "husband", with "romni"/"rromni" meaning "wife". But the Wikipedia article for the Romani people says that "there are no historical proofs to clarify the etymology of these words". I hear Romanians complaining that they are being associated with this group because the names are similar, and claiming that this group's endonym came into being because its members often come from families that settled in Romania. Is this scenario, their endonym therefore ultimately derives from the some source as the Romanians' - from "Romans" - which is at least as inappropriate as the exonym for this group, considering the lack of any Latin connection. I have no axe to grind - I have never personally had any problems with either ethnic group. But can anybody throw light on the historical basis of using "Romani" as an endonym? Frankieparley 06:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
As written, the article seems to suggest that Serbian is written in the Latin alphabet. My understanding is that Serbs prefer to write their language in the Cyrillic alphabet, while Croats use the Latin alphabet to write what, depending on one's ideology, is either the same language or a closely related one. In any event, should "Serbian" here be "Croatian," or should the section be clarified to note that Serbs use Cyrillic? -- Mr. A. ( talk) 22:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Many Chinese endonyms have successfully become English exonyms, especially city and most province names in mainland China, following Hanyu Pinyin spelling, as the current standard romanisation in China, e.g. Beijing (北京 Běijīng), Guangdong (广东 Guǎngdōng) (province), Qingdao (青岛 Qīngdǎo), although older English exonyms are sometimes used in certain contexts - i.e. Peking (duck, opera, etc.), Canton, Tsintao, etc.
I've removed this statement in the intro:
Some languages use the same spelling as the endonym but change the pronunciation, thus making it an exonym. The English and German pronunciations of Paris, for example, are different from the French one (where the s is silent in modern French), though it is spelled the same in all three languages.
I'd like to see a source on this if it was to be put back in the intro. While it is true that Paris is pronounced differently, most languages sharing the same orthography pronounce their letter differently. If the statement is to be taken at face value, couldn't we make the arguement that many toponyms in Scotland are exonyms when pronounced in American English, that most Latin American toponyms are exonyms in Castillian Spanish and vice versa? And is Japanese for New York, "Nyū Yōku" an exonym even though it follows standard transliteration practice and is the closest aproximation possible in Japanese? o ( talk) 13:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
The missing citation and example farm tags are very relevant. The article has three references, none of them to clearly reliable sources. This is much too few for that amount of text. Secondly most of the article consists of unsourced examples rather than scholarly explanations of the differences between endonyms and exonyms. The tags will have to remain in place untill these issues have been adressed. (for the record I didn't place the tags myself) ·Maunus·ƛ· 22:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
One of the matters attended to by the working group was to polish the definitions of exonym and endonym. Not that we must or should use what anyone with the UN suggests for UN purposes, I include these here in an effort to help someone improve the article as the working group's definitions seem to me more accurate and far less awkward than what we currently have in the introduction.
Presumably, what is currently at http://www.zrc-sazu.si/ungegn/WGE/exonyms.htm are the new definitions:
Definitions agreed:
— RVJ ( talk) 02:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
The UN description of exonym lacks an inclusion of personal names. Has it been too sparingly quoted, or is that a flaw in the UN's work? SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
A section could be made about how some peoples name themselves "men" or "free men", marking the rest as "non-human" or "slaves". Examples are Franks, Roma people, Thai, Inuit. -- Error ( talk) 23:45, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
What is mainly wrong with this article, as I see it, is that it does not explain what is basic to the subject matter: that exonyms were created and then evolved due to a desire with a certain people that they should be able to communicate internally, in a reasonable manner, by using the phonetics of their own language even when talking about foreign places and persons (whose names they had heard). Examples: Gothenburg in English, for Swedish Göteborg, or Catherine in English, for Polish Katarzyna. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Readers of this page may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian exonyms, relating to one of a number of similar lists that were previously discussed in 2007 at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of European exonyms.-- Arxiloxos ( talk) 18:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
English and French still use the plural form of the name, as Greek 'officially' did until katharevousa was finally abandoned in the 1970s. Pamour ( talk) 08:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Chinese Language is not written in alphabets, but in Hanzi. When writing Chinese city names in English, one needs transliteration or romanisation, where more than one standards exist. Hanyu Pinyin is currently the most popular, because the "PRC" makes it standard and replaces standards used by the Republic of China Government. Hence it is inappropriate to say Peking (北京 using Chinese Postal Map Romanization, officially used by the ROC) is an English exonym but Beijing (北京 using Hanyu Pinyin, officially used by the "PRC") is a Chinese endonym; both should be classified into the same class. Unmistakable English exonyms of Chinese cities include Canton (廣州, Guangzhou), Port Arthur (旅順, Lüshunkou). -- Jabo-er ( talk) 06:51, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Removed this just now from the lede. Please! Where do opinionated judgements like this come from? Let's not engage in near mud slinging w/o sources! -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 23:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
, often derogatory or offensive. ditto. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 23:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
The part about Chinese place names was confusing to me. I think the old English names should be mentioned along with the new Hanyu pinyin names, not everyone knows that Canton is Guangdong. And the way the paragraph is structured, it is not clear if the Republic of China (Taiwan) has also made Hanyu Pinyin the standard in 1979 or not. It turns out it has done so, but only in 2008, and in practise nobody uses it for place names. So while "Beijing" has replaced "Peking" in the PRC, "Jinmen" has not yet replaced "Kinmen" in Taiwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.6.39.147 ( talk) 08:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Those cities mentioned are usually still called "Naples" and "Turin" in England, although the football team is usually called Napoli. Juventus are far more famous here than Torino, if you ask someone in England "which city are Juventus from" the reply will be "Turin". Of course this doesn't affect Milan, whose team officially uses the English name. It is also worth mentioning one obsolete English exonym that survives mainly as the name of a football team: River Plate. Walshie79 ( talk) 00:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
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Unless requested sources are added in the next month or so, I will be deleting huge chunks of unsourced POV & conjecture here. Boxes look awful. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:10, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
The English name "Athens" is derived from ancient Greek (not from modern Greek, as is misleadingly implied in the article). The plural "-s" ending reflects the fact that the Ancient Greek name was plural (while the modern Greek name is singular -- in ancient Greek, the singular form was the name of the goddess Athena, not of the city)... AnonMoos ( talk) 12:53, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
While many of the names for London are true exonyms (where the spelling in latin script is different), are the exonyms in Armenian, Persian and Vietnamese true exonyms rather than standard transcriptions? The Armenian rendered in latin script is "London". OsFish ( talk) 01:45, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Cisgender/Cisgenderism is an Exonym. It was given to non-trans people by Trans people. Should it be mentioned here? Fishchaircan ( talk) 09:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Tye original research template was added here, but I'm not sure where the concern is. Newystats ( talk) 22:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
In the page Gitanos, the words endonym and exonym both link to this page. The 'floater' text you see when you hover over the word uses the same first sentence of this article for both words - this means the definition for 'endonym' is correct, but the definition for 'exonym' is wrong, as it's giving the endonym definition a second time. This seems like a Wikipedia-wide issue, but is there any way to fix it for this page specifically? (Apologies for any format issues, I'm a noob) 2600:6C50:7F:B4BC:9186:A98F:E498:8C4D ( talk) 07:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)