This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
general archive: up to June 2008
Having researched East Germany recently, it strikes me that there are some major points missing from the article:
Can someone explain why Economy of East Germany was pasted into East Germany and the link to it removed? It's far too long, and not a great article anyway (no structure, lots missing (see eg History of East Germany) and possibly derived from CIA or similar source). Rd232 13:21, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
And shouldn't the economy section have some mention at the massive economic difference between East and Wester Germany that became evident after reunification? TastyCakes ( talk) 17:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Who was the true leader of East Germany? From 1949-89/90 who was the actual leader? Which possetion heald the most power? Who was leader from 1951 onwards? A leader whos reign starts completely in the 50s. User:Vital Component
I just deleted this from the paragraph about the Vokskammer and the block parties: This is in contrast to West Germany, which did not allow people to vote for the parties they wished to, such as the Communist Party.
Fine, you can think about the West-German communist party and its dissolvment what you want. But using this to imply that the Volkskammer elections were democratic, like that anybody could have run as member of parliament in any party, that is really way off. Unfortunatly, I'm a typical Wessi, wth limited knowledge of East Germany, so: Any East Germans around? Could you, please, add some sentences about what the Blockparteien were, how they werked, how independent they were, and how the elections worked? Maybe also a few words about these famous >90% results in favour of the SED? Thanks a lot. Simon A. 09:35, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Can someone with more time and patience than I go through the recent changes, including by the anons, and check for accuracy, spelling, and NPOV? I noticed some problems. -- TJive 13:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I just removed Jeanette Biedermann from the list of important people. As she was born in 1981 and became famous well after reunification I don't think she should be listed as important people from the GDR. (just in case anyone's wondering) Madcynic 22:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Should we not redirect East Germany to here? Skinnyweed 22:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Imho, the list of East German politicians should be removed and the articles put into the category instead. The same for the artists. -- Abe Lincoln 15:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I added the name of Sigmund Jähn to the important people list. August 5, 2006
The term "East German Mark" or "Ostmark" in German was the colloquial name of the currency, being mostly used in West Germany. In the GDR, people would simply call it the "Mark" and use the term "Westmark" to distinguish the Deutsche Mark where necessary. The official name of the East German currency changed a few times, the last name that has been in use was "Mark der DDR" or "Mark of the GDR" in English. I suggest changing the item in the infobox accordingly.
Was there a state-owned monopolistic record company in the GDR similar to Melodiya in the USSR or Hungaroton in Hungary? If so, would anyone in the know care to add a sentence or short paragraph about this to the section? OMHalck 00:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I got lost. Did you say you took a picture of a Soviet soldier? Or an American soldier? I have heard of people being detained for doing such things, though. - Victor (Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:17:28 UTC)
I was an American exchange student in West Berlin in 1963-64. I was briefly detained in the police headquarters in Friedrichstrasse when I naively took a photograph of a soldier in front of a railroad bridge. My film was confiscated and there were no further consequences as far as I know. I wonder if anyone knows of Americans who were held in East Germany for extended periods, or where I could find information about this subject. Excuse if this is not an appropriate wikipedia question. Thanks, Merlin
Interesting. Over here in the USA they don't teach that Nazi functionaries got jobs in West Germany, and didn't in East Germany. Can someone elaborate? --Branden
"organized in Markts" in the history section is a typo; (Markt means market), it should be "organized in Marks". Admins please correct this! 82.83.132.165 12:41, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
DD isn't "deprecated", it's obsolete. (I can't fix the article because it's protected.) -- Zundark 10:15, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Seriously, this part that only talks about steroids is blatantly biased. The sports success was based on different factors, not only on that - not even exclusively. I hope someone with a better knowledge of the background than me can fix that ASAP. -- Madcynic 14:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
As the author of that section, I have to agree with the fact that certain amount of discipline is required to win olympic medals and world records. There are of course other factors such as government sponsored professionalism (where the government actually paid these athletes in eastern bloc coutnries to have their full time jobs as sports while the western bloc countries were "amateurs" (which of course is not the case anymore). My expertise lays in the area of steroids in sports and in history. My input in this area is specifically based on that so it can sound biased without the input of others. Just like any other contributing expert members of Wikipedia, I fully support you on the fact that all other areas should be explored and discovered. I certainly encourage others to join and expand this section but the fact is that starting with Soviet Union in 1950s (with the world weightlifting championships as a start) government sponsored steroid usage and the development of technology to mask this usage was in full force. From a population ratio, the success rate of olympic and world records in Eastern Germany and the rapid decline of these success rates after the unification of Germany, Steroids certainly played a major part in East German sports. Steroid Expert 21:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
(UTC)
Isn't 'Dance Dance Recolution' the much more recognized/known meaning for the acronym 'DDR'? I asked a few people (selection/volume bias, I know, but...), and the German Democratic Republic is NOT what they say! -- 69.138.61.168 18:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I suggest most of the materials be moved to the relevant articles under Germany because we are dealing with a historical state now. Most of the article was a direct borrowing of the US Library of Congress's 1988 information [1], which, at the time of writing, there was still a GDR state. Much of the information such as Culture and Economy would be of "current events" interest and anyone who wants to view them now would go to the main Germany article instead. -- JNZ 06:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I've heard that either East Germany or West Germany had a "plain" german flag (black, red, gold), but that the other had the same flag but with the [apparently] West German coat of arms (the black eagle). Is this true? And if it is, should I send Wikipedia of a flag with this coat of arms (that I may or may not be able to find)? 70.69.206.62 03:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Proper
For the common Olympic team (the states didn't participate individually prior to 1972), the coat of arms was replaced with the Olympic rings. The West German flag with the coat of arms is the so-called Bundesdienstflagge (Flag of the federal authorities of Germany). This flag may only be used by federal government authorities. For all other uses, West Germany used the plain flag. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madcynic ( talk • contribs) 12:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I have removed Till Lindemann from the famous people list as he is listed as well as all 6 Rammstein members which includes him
I was looking to read on GDR law or jurisprudence. Were the country's laws originally a fusion of Soviet and German law, or were they entirely Soviet? nadav 02:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You´ll find many links in german Wiki under "DDR-Justiz" (GDR justice) go to "16.1 DDR-Gesetze" (GDR laws). But... in german. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.243.55 ( talk) 14:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
The History section begins During the post-Roman migration period, many of these populations left for other lands, without mentioning which populations. I assume that some text was deleted from the beginning of the section without checking that the new first sentence still made sense. I suggest either deleting of these, or naming the populations of the time, or replacing of these populations with people. Coyets 14:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Surely describing Karl-Eduard von Schnitzler as "famous" (in quotation marks) is not a neutral standpoint. He was certainly very well-known, and, because his program was controversial, he was disliked by many people. Wikipedia should be stating these facts, and not expressing an opinion by the use of quotation marks. Coyets 14:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I added a population density map of the GDR in the history section. I think it is a valuable and important part of this article. However, upon adding it some fo the article's text has been jumbled. I'm not good with cosmetic editing so if someone could fix that please I would appreciate it. If you think it can be moved somewhere else in the article please go ahead and do so. Dreieich 00:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
GDR in Microsoft terms is a General Distribution Release, which is a second type for a hotfix (first type is QFE = Quick Fix Engineering). A very good explanation can be found under http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=70074 -andy 194.138.39.140 11:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Added a link to Saar_(protectorate) in caption of political map to allow users to follow and clarify the purple Saar region. Otherwise, there is no mention whatsoever in the East Germany article of the French Saar protectorate region. With some linking and reading I made the connection myself and wanted to facilitate said connections for future parties. Also in the interest of consistency, as a similar reference and link may be found in the caption of the political map in the West Germany article.
Does anyone else think that this part is poorly written? I don't know anything about stamps, so I am not going to try and re-write it, but it needs work. There are other statements made that should be adjusted, eg "...most beautiful stamps..".
"East Germany existed from 1949 until 1990, when its STATES acceded to ...Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany)..." In the Part "Administrative divisions" is accurately described that East Germany has got no states but districts. On July 22nd 1990 the Volkskammer agreed a law for the reintroducion of the states in the GDR (Verfassungsgesetz zur Bildung von Ländern in der DDR - Ländereinführungsgesetzes) with effect from october 14th 1990. But the unification treaty (Einigungsvertag) brought this forward on the day of reunification (3rd October 1990). Link to the Ministry Of Justice (in german) where you can read this: http://bundesrecht.juris.de/einigvtr/anlage_ii_kap_ii_a_ii_218.html So the right term is: "East Germany existed from 1949 until 1990, when its DISTRICTS acceded to ...Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany)..." Could anyone registered change this please? Thanx
Michael (native (east) german)
I deleted this section:
Travelling in Eastern Germany has become an adventure in the mid 90s. Many African and Asian people became victims of crimes recently. It is highly recommended for this group to avoid travelling alone, or late night travel in general. It is still considered safest for this group to just not enter this area of Germany.
Firstly: what relevance does this section have in an article about a state that was abolished years ago? Secondly: it contains nothing but one editor's opinions about the situation in the former GDR. J-C V ( talk) 19:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
It is good that this section was deleted, because it is a fact that africans and asians, mostly illegal aliens, have COMMITTED an increasing number of racial crimes against White Germans, far more than the reverse. Walter Ring —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.136.179 ( talk) 23:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the introduction currently states: Until 1952 it consisted of the German states of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Brandenburg, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia, and Saxony. But the article doesn't indicate how that changed in 1952. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Any positive portrayal of this or ANY communist state in any way, shape or form should be forbidden just as any positive portrayal of National Socialist Germany is prohibited. At least the National Socialists did not have to build a complex wall complete with dogs, guards with machine guns, tunnel detectors, mines, glass shards and electric fences to keep people in as the communists did when they took over East Germany. Walter Ring —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.136.179 ( talk) 23:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually Walter Ring the Nazis did build all of these things around the Jewish populations of the Reich, so you are wrong. FALSCH! Compared to the racist and fascist Third Reich, life in the DDR was quite pleasant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.132.84 ( talk) 21:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Whatever good things the Nazi's did (industrialized their nation using fascism, etc.) should be noted, as should their negative things. (Killing millions simply due to ethnicity, not being very kind to Jews, etc.) Same with the G.D.R. Show all sides of the argument. That's the purpose of an encyclopedia article on ideologies, economics, science, nation histories, etc. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
general archive: up to June 2008
Having researched East Germany recently, it strikes me that there are some major points missing from the article:
Can someone explain why Economy of East Germany was pasted into East Germany and the link to it removed? It's far too long, and not a great article anyway (no structure, lots missing (see eg History of East Germany) and possibly derived from CIA or similar source). Rd232 13:21, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
And shouldn't the economy section have some mention at the massive economic difference between East and Wester Germany that became evident after reunification? TastyCakes ( talk) 17:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Who was the true leader of East Germany? From 1949-89/90 who was the actual leader? Which possetion heald the most power? Who was leader from 1951 onwards? A leader whos reign starts completely in the 50s. User:Vital Component
I just deleted this from the paragraph about the Vokskammer and the block parties: This is in contrast to West Germany, which did not allow people to vote for the parties they wished to, such as the Communist Party.
Fine, you can think about the West-German communist party and its dissolvment what you want. But using this to imply that the Volkskammer elections were democratic, like that anybody could have run as member of parliament in any party, that is really way off. Unfortunatly, I'm a typical Wessi, wth limited knowledge of East Germany, so: Any East Germans around? Could you, please, add some sentences about what the Blockparteien were, how they werked, how independent they were, and how the elections worked? Maybe also a few words about these famous >90% results in favour of the SED? Thanks a lot. Simon A. 09:35, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Can someone with more time and patience than I go through the recent changes, including by the anons, and check for accuracy, spelling, and NPOV? I noticed some problems. -- TJive 13:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I just removed Jeanette Biedermann from the list of important people. As she was born in 1981 and became famous well after reunification I don't think she should be listed as important people from the GDR. (just in case anyone's wondering) Madcynic 22:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Should we not redirect East Germany to here? Skinnyweed 22:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Imho, the list of East German politicians should be removed and the articles put into the category instead. The same for the artists. -- Abe Lincoln 15:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I added the name of Sigmund Jähn to the important people list. August 5, 2006
The term "East German Mark" or "Ostmark" in German was the colloquial name of the currency, being mostly used in West Germany. In the GDR, people would simply call it the "Mark" and use the term "Westmark" to distinguish the Deutsche Mark where necessary. The official name of the East German currency changed a few times, the last name that has been in use was "Mark der DDR" or "Mark of the GDR" in English. I suggest changing the item in the infobox accordingly.
Was there a state-owned monopolistic record company in the GDR similar to Melodiya in the USSR or Hungaroton in Hungary? If so, would anyone in the know care to add a sentence or short paragraph about this to the section? OMHalck 00:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I got lost. Did you say you took a picture of a Soviet soldier? Or an American soldier? I have heard of people being detained for doing such things, though. - Victor (Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:17:28 UTC)
I was an American exchange student in West Berlin in 1963-64. I was briefly detained in the police headquarters in Friedrichstrasse when I naively took a photograph of a soldier in front of a railroad bridge. My film was confiscated and there were no further consequences as far as I know. I wonder if anyone knows of Americans who were held in East Germany for extended periods, or where I could find information about this subject. Excuse if this is not an appropriate wikipedia question. Thanks, Merlin
Interesting. Over here in the USA they don't teach that Nazi functionaries got jobs in West Germany, and didn't in East Germany. Can someone elaborate? --Branden
"organized in Markts" in the history section is a typo; (Markt means market), it should be "organized in Marks". Admins please correct this! 82.83.132.165 12:41, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
DD isn't "deprecated", it's obsolete. (I can't fix the article because it's protected.) -- Zundark 10:15, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Seriously, this part that only talks about steroids is blatantly biased. The sports success was based on different factors, not only on that - not even exclusively. I hope someone with a better knowledge of the background than me can fix that ASAP. -- Madcynic 14:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
As the author of that section, I have to agree with the fact that certain amount of discipline is required to win olympic medals and world records. There are of course other factors such as government sponsored professionalism (where the government actually paid these athletes in eastern bloc coutnries to have their full time jobs as sports while the western bloc countries were "amateurs" (which of course is not the case anymore). My expertise lays in the area of steroids in sports and in history. My input in this area is specifically based on that so it can sound biased without the input of others. Just like any other contributing expert members of Wikipedia, I fully support you on the fact that all other areas should be explored and discovered. I certainly encourage others to join and expand this section but the fact is that starting with Soviet Union in 1950s (with the world weightlifting championships as a start) government sponsored steroid usage and the development of technology to mask this usage was in full force. From a population ratio, the success rate of olympic and world records in Eastern Germany and the rapid decline of these success rates after the unification of Germany, Steroids certainly played a major part in East German sports. Steroid Expert 21:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
(UTC)
Isn't 'Dance Dance Recolution' the much more recognized/known meaning for the acronym 'DDR'? I asked a few people (selection/volume bias, I know, but...), and the German Democratic Republic is NOT what they say! -- 69.138.61.168 18:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I suggest most of the materials be moved to the relevant articles under Germany because we are dealing with a historical state now. Most of the article was a direct borrowing of the US Library of Congress's 1988 information [1], which, at the time of writing, there was still a GDR state. Much of the information such as Culture and Economy would be of "current events" interest and anyone who wants to view them now would go to the main Germany article instead. -- JNZ 06:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I've heard that either East Germany or West Germany had a "plain" german flag (black, red, gold), but that the other had the same flag but with the [apparently] West German coat of arms (the black eagle). Is this true? And if it is, should I send Wikipedia of a flag with this coat of arms (that I may or may not be able to find)? 70.69.206.62 03:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Proper
For the common Olympic team (the states didn't participate individually prior to 1972), the coat of arms was replaced with the Olympic rings. The West German flag with the coat of arms is the so-called Bundesdienstflagge (Flag of the federal authorities of Germany). This flag may only be used by federal government authorities. For all other uses, West Germany used the plain flag. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madcynic ( talk • contribs) 12:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
I have removed Till Lindemann from the famous people list as he is listed as well as all 6 Rammstein members which includes him
I was looking to read on GDR law or jurisprudence. Were the country's laws originally a fusion of Soviet and German law, or were they entirely Soviet? nadav 02:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You´ll find many links in german Wiki under "DDR-Justiz" (GDR justice) go to "16.1 DDR-Gesetze" (GDR laws). But... in german. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.243.55 ( talk) 14:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
The History section begins During the post-Roman migration period, many of these populations left for other lands, without mentioning which populations. I assume that some text was deleted from the beginning of the section without checking that the new first sentence still made sense. I suggest either deleting of these, or naming the populations of the time, or replacing of these populations with people. Coyets 14:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Surely describing Karl-Eduard von Schnitzler as "famous" (in quotation marks) is not a neutral standpoint. He was certainly very well-known, and, because his program was controversial, he was disliked by many people. Wikipedia should be stating these facts, and not expressing an opinion by the use of quotation marks. Coyets 14:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I added a population density map of the GDR in the history section. I think it is a valuable and important part of this article. However, upon adding it some fo the article's text has been jumbled. I'm not good with cosmetic editing so if someone could fix that please I would appreciate it. If you think it can be moved somewhere else in the article please go ahead and do so. Dreieich 00:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
GDR in Microsoft terms is a General Distribution Release, which is a second type for a hotfix (first type is QFE = Quick Fix Engineering). A very good explanation can be found under http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=70074 -andy 194.138.39.140 11:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Added a link to Saar_(protectorate) in caption of political map to allow users to follow and clarify the purple Saar region. Otherwise, there is no mention whatsoever in the East Germany article of the French Saar protectorate region. With some linking and reading I made the connection myself and wanted to facilitate said connections for future parties. Also in the interest of consistency, as a similar reference and link may be found in the caption of the political map in the West Germany article.
Does anyone else think that this part is poorly written? I don't know anything about stamps, so I am not going to try and re-write it, but it needs work. There are other statements made that should be adjusted, eg "...most beautiful stamps..".
"East Germany existed from 1949 until 1990, when its STATES acceded to ...Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany)..." In the Part "Administrative divisions" is accurately described that East Germany has got no states but districts. On July 22nd 1990 the Volkskammer agreed a law for the reintroducion of the states in the GDR (Verfassungsgesetz zur Bildung von Ländern in der DDR - Ländereinführungsgesetzes) with effect from october 14th 1990. But the unification treaty (Einigungsvertag) brought this forward on the day of reunification (3rd October 1990). Link to the Ministry Of Justice (in german) where you can read this: http://bundesrecht.juris.de/einigvtr/anlage_ii_kap_ii_a_ii_218.html So the right term is: "East Germany existed from 1949 until 1990, when its DISTRICTS acceded to ...Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany)..." Could anyone registered change this please? Thanx
Michael (native (east) german)
I deleted this section:
Travelling in Eastern Germany has become an adventure in the mid 90s. Many African and Asian people became victims of crimes recently. It is highly recommended for this group to avoid travelling alone, or late night travel in general. It is still considered safest for this group to just not enter this area of Germany.
Firstly: what relevance does this section have in an article about a state that was abolished years ago? Secondly: it contains nothing but one editor's opinions about the situation in the former GDR. J-C V ( talk) 19:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
It is good that this section was deleted, because it is a fact that africans and asians, mostly illegal aliens, have COMMITTED an increasing number of racial crimes against White Germans, far more than the reverse. Walter Ring —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.136.179 ( talk) 23:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the introduction currently states: Until 1952 it consisted of the German states of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Brandenburg, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia, and Saxony. But the article doesn't indicate how that changed in 1952. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Any positive portrayal of this or ANY communist state in any way, shape or form should be forbidden just as any positive portrayal of National Socialist Germany is prohibited. At least the National Socialists did not have to build a complex wall complete with dogs, guards with machine guns, tunnel detectors, mines, glass shards and electric fences to keep people in as the communists did when they took over East Germany. Walter Ring —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.136.179 ( talk) 23:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually Walter Ring the Nazis did build all of these things around the Jewish populations of the Reich, so you are wrong. FALSCH! Compared to the racist and fascist Third Reich, life in the DDR was quite pleasant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.132.84 ( talk) 21:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Whatever good things the Nazi's did (industrialized their nation using fascism, etc.) should be noted, as should their negative things. (Killing millions simply due to ethnicity, not being very kind to Jews, etc.) Same with the G.D.R. Show all sides of the argument. That's the purpose of an encyclopedia article on ideologies, economics, science, nation histories, etc. -- Mrdie ( talk) 07:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)