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 | The contents of the Southern Schleswig page were merged into Duchy of Schleswig on July 20, 2013. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I strongly oppose the requested merger between the two pages. Sydslesvig (Southern Schleswig) has a unique position in Danish history and is the home of a number of Danish institutions and associations for the Danish minority. This should be reflected in a special article. -- Valentinian (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- Merger tag removed. Ksbrown 17:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)0
In German Wikipedia, it is a hard work to make people familiar with the actual names of localities, which are in Poland or the Czech Republic, nowadays. This work is obstructed, if in English Wikipdia objects nowadays situated in Germany are not called by their German names. -- Ulamm ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be the title of its article? - Yorkshirian ( talk) 14:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- OK guys, I'm moving this to "Duchy of Schleswig" based on the German article been at "Herzogtum Schleswig" and the Danish one at "Hertugdømmet Slesvig", both of the first words mean "Duchy". - Yorkshirian ( talk) 22:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm still on the fence with the original " Schleswig" → "Duchy of" move; I simply moved it from Duchy of Slesvig to Duchy of Schleswig because the latter term is used more in English publications. If there is a consensus to restore the page to "Schleswig" I can do so. The German wiki does have de:Schleswig as a disambiguation page; we could turn Schleswig into a simple disambig page as well. If we do keep a detailed Duchy of Schleswig page, the intro needs to be adjusted to reflect this (currently it describes the Schleswig region, not the duchy). Olessi ( talk) 01:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It says that the capital is not specified, but would it not be logical that it was the city of Sleswig?
- The ducal residence (in times, when it was split, the residence of the main branch) was at Gottorp Castle near (today in) Schleswig, and in the last years of Danish rule, the parliament of the douchy met in the city hall of Schleswig. So I think it isn't wrong to call Schleswig city the capital of the duchy. --
Ulamm (
talk) 10:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
- Schleswig war the capital of the Gottorp branch, while Copenhagen was the captital of the royal branch in Schleswig (and of course the capital of the Danish monarchy/Helstaten). In the last years of the Danish rule (after 1848/51), the parliament of the Duchy of Schleswig met in the Stænderhuset in Flensburg, while the Ministry of Schleswig was in Copenhagen. -- 91.4.121.47 ( talk) 19:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
I added the template fact in "published by the Danish cartographer Olsen {{fact}} in the 1830s" sentence in the Former naming dispute section. Can someone supply the first name of Olsen, so the link to Olsen in the Olsen (surname) DAB is accurate and distinctive from the surname?-- DThomsen8 ( talk) 11:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Old version, as of 21 January 2010:
The Kingdom of Prussia, led by Otto von Bismarck, intervened and defeated Denmark in the resulting First War of Schleswig, but was forced to return Schleswig and Holstein under pressure from the Austrian and Russian Empires.
Current version:
The Kingdom of Prussia, led by Otto von Bismarck. Denmark was victorious and the Prussian troops were ordered to pull out of Schleswig and Holstein following the London Protocol of 1952.
The sloppy edit resulting in a truncated sentence is, of course, a giveaway. The historical course is, as I see it, far more complicated as either version imply, (Prussian troops were not ordered by Austria and Russia to withdraw, but the collapse of the Paulskirche government resulted in a truce with Dennmark and a lot of other things to follow...) but could someone try to put the whole course into a few POV-free sentences? -- megA ( talk) 14:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Sønderjylland is a region in Denmark, right at the border with Germany / Schleswig-Holstein(I come from S/H and went to school in Tinglev, which is located in Sønderjylland). The understandable mistake aside, people there might take offense to being made germans(again). :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.13.90.121 ( talk) 01:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Sønderjylland is historically the same as the duchy of Slesvig/Schleswig ie. the name for the land betweem the Eider and Kongeåen. The modern Danish region Sønderjylland was called "de sønderjyske landsdele" (litterally "country parts") after the reunification with Denmark in 1920, but this was quickly shortened to Sønderjylland in everyday use - also in 1970 Sønderjyllands Amt (county) was formed. Many modern inhabitants of the region therefore dont know the historical meaning of the term Søndrjylland. Furtherore Slesvig is not a German term, but a Danish one probably derived from a Frisian word for the name of the town Slesvig.-- Orakologen ( talk) 10:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The article currently states that for the King of Denmark to be Duke of Slesvig simultaneously "was an anomaly – a king holding a ducal title of which he as king was the fount and liege lord." It's not unusual for kings to have a scad of subsidiary titles which can include dukedoms, and it has routinely happened that a ducal appanage is (re)united with the crown. Q·L· 1968 ☿ 05:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Margrethe II has resolved this problem by renouncing use of the string of hereditary titles accumulated by and historically attached to the kingship of Denmark. Previously, the "anomaly" reflected the English common law perspective that since the monarch is the lawful fons honorum for all peerages, when a peer becomes the British monarch, or the British monarch inherits a peerage, that peerage, ipso facto, "merges" with the Crown, i.e., is extinguished. Thus, it can be granted anew. But the Danish duchy of Schleswig is not a British peerage. It was first granted by a Danish king to a cadet branch of his dynasty in 1115. Although it was undoubtedly then an appanage, subordinate to the Danish king's suzerainty, in 1386 its traditional union with the County of Holstein was declared permanent. But Holstein was never formally part of or a vassal of Denmark. Rather, it was a fief within the Holy Roman Empire until the Empire was dissolved in 1806. Meanwhile, the Countship of Holstein and the Dukedom of Schleswig all fell, by inheritance, to the King of Denmark in 1474 -- but those three domains remained, legally, in personal union rather than united into a single realm. Upon the death of Frederick VIII of Denmark in 1860, the claims to those realms diverged to different heirs, with Prussia resolved to annex German Holstein as soon as it could find a pretext for doing so. The branch of the House of Oldenburg first endowed with the duchy still exists in the legitimate male line, and Denmark has never cancelled the grant. FactStraight ( talk) 07:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
There is misding a map for an overview for its plave in central europe. -- 178.197.230.81 ( talk) 14:18, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Until now, I have never seen the "flag of Schleswig" anywhere else than here. I don't think it actually exists. A search yields this page with an image of the flag: flaggenlexikon.de, however it contradicts itself since it says the flag is not used. While many German states and historical states use a horizontally striped flag based on the colours of coats of arms, it doesn't mean you can just take the coat of arms of any entity and turn it into a flag. A flag for (South) Schleswig exists insofar as it is sometimes used by the Danish minority – it is the two lions on a blue background. I don't think the majority population use it. They use the Schleswig-Holstein tricolore or the North Frisian flag. Last year, Danish priest Peder Kristiansen in North Slesvig proposed a flag for all of South Jutland/Schleswig: a yellow cross with blue borders on a yellow background. It remains to see whether it will catch on. At least one specimen has been actually made and used: Sønderjylland skal da have sit eget flag!, with pictures, synnejysk.dk. -- Sasper ( talk) 00:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
The article is quite misleading in many points. The Frisians did not arrive until the 8th or 9th century, much later than Roman times. Saxons also did not arrive until later. The area between Danevirke/Eckernförde and the Eider is commonly believed to have been a rather empty forest zone, and then colonized from the south, at a rather late time (11th century or so). -- Sasper ( talk) 00:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
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| The contents of the Southern Schleswig page were merged into Duchy of Schleswig on July 20, 2013. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I strongly oppose the requested merger between the two pages. Sydslesvig (Southern Schleswig) has a unique position in Danish history and is the home of a number of Danish institutions and associations for the Danish minority. This should be reflected in a special article. -- Valentinian (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- Merger tag removed. Ksbrown 17:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)0
In German Wikipedia, it is a hard work to make people familiar with the actual names of localities, which are in Poland or the Czech Republic, nowadays. This work is obstructed, if in English Wikipdia objects nowadays situated in Germany are not called by their German names. -- Ulamm ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be the title of its article? - Yorkshirian ( talk) 14:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- OK guys, I'm moving this to "Duchy of Schleswig" based on the German article been at "Herzogtum Schleswig" and the Danish one at "Hertugdømmet Slesvig", both of the first words mean "Duchy". - Yorkshirian ( talk) 22:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm still on the fence with the original " Schleswig" → "Duchy of" move; I simply moved it from Duchy of Slesvig to Duchy of Schleswig because the latter term is used more in English publications. If there is a consensus to restore the page to "Schleswig" I can do so. The German wiki does have de:Schleswig as a disambiguation page; we could turn Schleswig into a simple disambig page as well. If we do keep a detailed Duchy of Schleswig page, the intro needs to be adjusted to reflect this (currently it describes the Schleswig region, not the duchy). Olessi ( talk) 01:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It says that the capital is not specified, but would it not be logical that it was the city of Sleswig?
- The ducal residence (in times, when it was split, the residence of the main branch) was at Gottorp Castle near (today in) Schleswig, and in the last years of Danish rule, the parliament of the douchy met in the city hall of Schleswig. So I think it isn't wrong to call Schleswig city the capital of the duchy. --
Ulamm (
talk) 10:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
- Schleswig war the capital of the Gottorp branch, while Copenhagen was the captital of the royal branch in Schleswig (and of course the capital of the Danish monarchy/Helstaten). In the last years of the Danish rule (after 1848/51), the parliament of the Duchy of Schleswig met in the Stænderhuset in Flensburg, while the Ministry of Schleswig was in Copenhagen. -- 91.4.121.47 ( talk) 19:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
I added the template fact in "published by the Danish cartographer Olsen {{fact}} in the 1830s" sentence in the Former naming dispute section. Can someone supply the first name of Olsen, so the link to Olsen in the Olsen (surname) DAB is accurate and distinctive from the surname?-- DThomsen8 ( talk) 11:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Old version, as of 21 January 2010:
The Kingdom of Prussia, led by Otto von Bismarck, intervened and defeated Denmark in the resulting First War of Schleswig, but was forced to return Schleswig and Holstein under pressure from the Austrian and Russian Empires.
Current version:
The Kingdom of Prussia, led by Otto von Bismarck. Denmark was victorious and the Prussian troops were ordered to pull out of Schleswig and Holstein following the London Protocol of 1952.
The sloppy edit resulting in a truncated sentence is, of course, a giveaway. The historical course is, as I see it, far more complicated as either version imply, (Prussian troops were not ordered by Austria and Russia to withdraw, but the collapse of the Paulskirche government resulted in a truce with Dennmark and a lot of other things to follow...) but could someone try to put the whole course into a few POV-free sentences? -- megA ( talk) 14:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Sønderjylland is a region in Denmark, right at the border with Germany / Schleswig-Holstein(I come from S/H and went to school in Tinglev, which is located in Sønderjylland). The understandable mistake aside, people there might take offense to being made germans(again). :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.13.90.121 ( talk) 01:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Sønderjylland is historically the same as the duchy of Slesvig/Schleswig ie. the name for the land betweem the Eider and Kongeåen. The modern Danish region Sønderjylland was called "de sønderjyske landsdele" (litterally "country parts") after the reunification with Denmark in 1920, but this was quickly shortened to Sønderjylland in everyday use - also in 1970 Sønderjyllands Amt (county) was formed. Many modern inhabitants of the region therefore dont know the historical meaning of the term Søndrjylland. Furtherore Slesvig is not a German term, but a Danish one probably derived from a Frisian word for the name of the town Slesvig.-- Orakologen ( talk) 10:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The article currently states that for the King of Denmark to be Duke of Slesvig simultaneously "was an anomaly – a king holding a ducal title of which he as king was the fount and liege lord." It's not unusual for kings to have a scad of subsidiary titles which can include dukedoms, and it has routinely happened that a ducal appanage is (re)united with the crown. Q·L· 1968 ☿ 05:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Margrethe II has resolved this problem by renouncing use of the string of hereditary titles accumulated by and historically attached to the kingship of Denmark. Previously, the "anomaly" reflected the English common law perspective that since the monarch is the lawful fons honorum for all peerages, when a peer becomes the British monarch, or the British monarch inherits a peerage, that peerage, ipso facto, "merges" with the Crown, i.e., is extinguished. Thus, it can be granted anew. But the Danish duchy of Schleswig is not a British peerage. It was first granted by a Danish king to a cadet branch of his dynasty in 1115. Although it was undoubtedly then an appanage, subordinate to the Danish king's suzerainty, in 1386 its traditional union with the County of Holstein was declared permanent. But Holstein was never formally part of or a vassal of Denmark. Rather, it was a fief within the Holy Roman Empire until the Empire was dissolved in 1806. Meanwhile, the Countship of Holstein and the Dukedom of Schleswig all fell, by inheritance, to the King of Denmark in 1474 -- but those three domains remained, legally, in personal union rather than united into a single realm. Upon the death of Frederick VIII of Denmark in 1860, the claims to those realms diverged to different heirs, with Prussia resolved to annex German Holstein as soon as it could find a pretext for doing so. The branch of the House of Oldenburg first endowed with the duchy still exists in the legitimate male line, and Denmark has never cancelled the grant. FactStraight ( talk) 07:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
There is misding a map for an overview for its plave in central europe. -- 178.197.230.81 ( talk) 14:18, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Until now, I have never seen the "flag of Schleswig" anywhere else than here. I don't think it actually exists. A search yields this page with an image of the flag: flaggenlexikon.de, however it contradicts itself since it says the flag is not used. While many German states and historical states use a horizontally striped flag based on the colours of coats of arms, it doesn't mean you can just take the coat of arms of any entity and turn it into a flag. A flag for (South) Schleswig exists insofar as it is sometimes used by the Danish minority – it is the two lions on a blue background. I don't think the majority population use it. They use the Schleswig-Holstein tricolore or the North Frisian flag. Last year, Danish priest Peder Kristiansen in North Slesvig proposed a flag for all of South Jutland/Schleswig: a yellow cross with blue borders on a yellow background. It remains to see whether it will catch on. At least one specimen has been actually made and used: Sønderjylland skal da have sit eget flag!, with pictures, synnejysk.dk. -- Sasper ( talk) 00:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
The article is quite misleading in many points. The Frisians did not arrive until the 8th or 9th century, much later than Roman times. Saxons also did not arrive until later. The area between Danevirke/Eckernförde and the Eider is commonly believed to have been a rather empty forest zone, and then colonized from the south, at a rather late time (11th century or so). -- Sasper ( talk) 00:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)