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- Desiderata - read it online here
- Desiderata by Max Ehrmann from "Geometry Step by Step from the Land of the Incas"
- http://marilee.us/desiderata.html (with many links)
Moved out of the main article, as they all seem to be just copies of the text, and we only need one of that. Feel free to re-add with sufficient explanation of what extra value they add. (Links are insufficient, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a web directory) JesseW 05:43, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Hoax seems rather strong for what was pretty certainly just a misunderstanding. Our own definition says it's a deliberate attempt to trick. Since we have no way of knowing what the intent of the person who originally distributed it that way, probably the word "misattribution" is better. The word "hoax" is both biased and original research. -- Dhartung | Talk 05:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The writer(s) of the current version use 'The Desiderata', some of the time. While this tallies with the title of the published work, surely the 'the' is not usually applied? At the very least we should be consistent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.64.168.196 ( talk • contribs) .
- True enough. Most of them just disappear after rewording. -- Dhartung | Talk 06:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The page [1] contained (among other things) the full text of the poem. Now in its place there is the following notice:
- DESIDERATA is copyrighted material, and can not be reproduced or sold without permision. Any violation is the basis for legal action. Books containing DESIDERATA are published by Crown Publishers, N.Y.C. and can be obtained from Tim Tiley Ltd., Bristol. The author was Max Ehrmann. Other permissions must be obtained from the owner of the copyright -- Robert L. Bell, 427 South Shore Drive, Sarasota, Florida, USA 34234.
Regardless of the US copyright status, since the author died in 1945, the text should be copyright in all countries that use the "year of death + 70" rule
- I added this clarification, but I have since come to the conclusion that the work is not in copyright in the United States based on the 1976 court decision and the recognition by the Registrar of Copyrights that it was precedential.
- The copyright was in its second term as of the Copyright Act of 1976, extending its termination to 2002, and as of the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act, to 2022.
- If there are non-US jurisdictions where the copyright holds, we should document those (I know the work has been translated). Certainly Bell is currently publishing the poem in the US in various Desiderata: Subtitle forms but with ancillary material surrounding it. This isn't an argument for or against including the text of the poem, but I personally don't think that it's an issue. -- Dhartung | Talk 13:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Supposedly, there was a court decision regarding the supposed copyright, which dismissed it and put the poen into public domain. I don't have access to these, but see "Bell v. Combined Registry Co., 536 F.2d 164 (7th Cir., 1976)". If someone with legal expertise could examine this, we could figure out the issue once and for all. Through the persistent claims of it being from 1692, I believe that any copyright, were it to exist, is practicably unenforcable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.31.55.175 ( talk) 23:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia page on Max Ehrmann states "Desiderata" is Latin for: "something desired as essential" instead of "desired things". Which one is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.6.164.50 ( talk) 14:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC).
- The "essential" is Ehrmann's gloss. The simpler meaning is correct, to my knowledge, but there isn't much practical difference between them. wiktionary -- Dhartung | Talk 07:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Interpretation of the Desiderata with the principles of manifesting. Desiderata in Life I recommend it under the External Links
Myjosweet ( talk) 21:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I have come across old copies of that Poem in spanish and the Author is listed as anonymous. But there is little information available on which language the Poem was written in. However the fact that the copyright was done establish current ownership
Jfmart ( talk) 05:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
My great grandfather Robert Bell owns this poem. I have no idea why it's not listed on the page. Our family has had much trouble with people publishing it as 'Anonymous' and handing it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.146.38 ( talk) 02:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Even so, it's a beautiful poem. What's wrong with sharing a little beauty in the world?-- Groccoli ( talk) 17:22, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I heartily agree with the very good comment of "Groccoli"!! He hit it in the nail! That's how the goodness of the heart feels!!
Magri 16:15, 29 October 2010 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.67.167.200 (
talk)
this is just a rip off from the old testament book ecclesiastes the writer as just reworded and updated the script —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.141.72 ( talk) 00:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone say more about this? Jaimalalatetre ( talk) 21:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.": The capitals in "God" and "Him" make it look like it's from the Bible but "whatever ..." is for people who believe in various other gods. This was written when Americans were getting into Eastern religions. From the Theosophical Society 1875 to The Waste Land 1922 etc. QuentinUK ( talk) 07:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
- "The text, largely unknown in the author's lifetime public first for its usage in a church hymnal which dated it, mistakenly, to the 17th century, then for its being found on the bedside table of Adlai Stevenson upon his death in 1965, and then Les Crane's spoken-word recording in 1971 and 1972."
I'm not completely sure what this should be, but it doesn't seem to be grammatical English. 71.170.112.233 ( talk) 05:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I found this syntax mystifying myself. Is it missing a "became" there before "public"? Bryce ( talk) 05:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I think you're right Bryce. My take is that this sentence is trying to say that the book was not known during the authors lifetime, but became popular because of three usages: first in a church hymnal which mistakenly dated it to the 17th century, then when it was found on the bedside table of the American statesman Adlai Stevenson when he died in 1965, and third because of Les Crane's spoken-word recording in 1971 and 1972. Jaimalalatetre ( talk) 21:45, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
The next-to-top Google result for Desiderata after the Wikipedia article has two major typos, as well as punctuation differences. "Neither be critical about love" for "Neither be cynical about love" and "Be careful" for "Be cheerful." The webpage it is on has been online since 1996, and the typos on it have apparently propagated not only to other websites, but even to books. -- Larrybob ( talk) 20:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia version uses "vexatious" but many of the 3rd party versions I have seen use "vexations." Is this discrepancy intended? (never mind the irony of the next line warning against comparisons to others). -- Psifer ( talk) 13:58, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
No mention of the Klingon parody? 2001:56A:F414:D300:4417:E13A:6EBF:5E34 ( talk) 07:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
My attempt to justify the poem in the article on both the right and left, that was reverted, was to make it as faithful as possible to the earliest published version in 1948, a photocopy of which is two-thirds down www.desiderata.com. This includes requiring each line to begin and end with the same words as those in the photocopy, as poems are usually required to do. Readability was not a consideration – faithfulness to the original was. The 1948 published version has two words that are split at the end of a line, thus are hyphenated, with-out and trick-ery. I suspect this was an artifact of the publisher to which the author could not object because he was already dead. Nevertheless, it is what it is. — Joe Kress ( talk) 19:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm not certain if well-known parodies belong in the "Significan usages..." section, but not not knowing where else to put it, and feeling that Deteriorata deserved a mention, I added it there. 107.77.227.111 ( talk) 21:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)Barefoot Mike
- Deteriorata is a notable parody, and at a minimum should be included as a see-also link. AnonMoos ( talk) 23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
please stop attributing this piece to Max Ehrman. Desiderata dates much farther back. How much farther, none know for sure, but at least to the 15th Century, and probably much earlier. 68.59.55.124 ( talk) 14:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
| This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Desiderata article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
|
| This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||
- Desiderata - read it online here
- Desiderata by Max Ehrmann from "Geometry Step by Step from the Land of the Incas"
- http://marilee.us/desiderata.html (with many links)
Moved out of the main article, as they all seem to be just copies of the text, and we only need one of that. Feel free to re-add with sufficient explanation of what extra value they add. (Links are insufficient, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a web directory) JesseW 05:43, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Hoax seems rather strong for what was pretty certainly just a misunderstanding. Our own definition says it's a deliberate attempt to trick. Since we have no way of knowing what the intent of the person who originally distributed it that way, probably the word "misattribution" is better. The word "hoax" is both biased and original research. -- Dhartung | Talk 05:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The writer(s) of the current version use 'The Desiderata', some of the time. While this tallies with the title of the published work, surely the 'the' is not usually applied? At the very least we should be consistent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.64.168.196 ( talk • contribs) .
- True enough. Most of them just disappear after rewording. -- Dhartung | Talk 06:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The page [1] contained (among other things) the full text of the poem. Now in its place there is the following notice:
- DESIDERATA is copyrighted material, and can not be reproduced or sold without permision. Any violation is the basis for legal action. Books containing DESIDERATA are published by Crown Publishers, N.Y.C. and can be obtained from Tim Tiley Ltd., Bristol. The author was Max Ehrmann. Other permissions must be obtained from the owner of the copyright -- Robert L. Bell, 427 South Shore Drive, Sarasota, Florida, USA 34234.
Regardless of the US copyright status, since the author died in 1945, the text should be copyright in all countries that use the "year of death + 70" rule
- I added this clarification, but I have since come to the conclusion that the work is not in copyright in the United States based on the 1976 court decision and the recognition by the Registrar of Copyrights that it was precedential.
- The copyright was in its second term as of the Copyright Act of 1976, extending its termination to 2002, and as of the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act, to 2022.
- If there are non-US jurisdictions where the copyright holds, we should document those (I know the work has been translated). Certainly Bell is currently publishing the poem in the US in various Desiderata: Subtitle forms but with ancillary material surrounding it. This isn't an argument for or against including the text of the poem, but I personally don't think that it's an issue. -- Dhartung | Talk 13:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Supposedly, there was a court decision regarding the supposed copyright, which dismissed it and put the poen into public domain. I don't have access to these, but see "Bell v. Combined Registry Co., 536 F.2d 164 (7th Cir., 1976)". If someone with legal expertise could examine this, we could figure out the issue once and for all. Through the persistent claims of it being from 1692, I believe that any copyright, were it to exist, is practicably unenforcable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.31.55.175 ( talk) 23:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia page on Max Ehrmann states "Desiderata" is Latin for: "something desired as essential" instead of "desired things". Which one is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.6.164.50 ( talk) 14:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC).
- The "essential" is Ehrmann's gloss. The simpler meaning is correct, to my knowledge, but there isn't much practical difference between them. wiktionary -- Dhartung | Talk 07:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Interpretation of the Desiderata with the principles of manifesting. Desiderata in Life I recommend it under the External Links
Myjosweet ( talk) 21:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I have come across old copies of that Poem in spanish and the Author is listed as anonymous. But there is little information available on which language the Poem was written in. However the fact that the copyright was done establish current ownership
Jfmart ( talk) 05:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
My great grandfather Robert Bell owns this poem. I have no idea why it's not listed on the page. Our family has had much trouble with people publishing it as 'Anonymous' and handing it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.146.38 ( talk) 02:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Even so, it's a beautiful poem. What's wrong with sharing a little beauty in the world?-- Groccoli ( talk) 17:22, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I heartily agree with the very good comment of "Groccoli"!! He hit it in the nail! That's how the goodness of the heart feels!!
Magri 16:15, 29 October 2010 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.67.167.200 (
talk)
this is just a rip off from the old testament book ecclesiastes the writer as just reworded and updated the script —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.141.72 ( talk) 00:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone say more about this? Jaimalalatetre ( talk) 21:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.": The capitals in "God" and "Him" make it look like it's from the Bible but "whatever ..." is for people who believe in various other gods. This was written when Americans were getting into Eastern religions. From the Theosophical Society 1875 to The Waste Land 1922 etc. QuentinUK ( talk) 07:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
- "The text, largely unknown in the author's lifetime public first for its usage in a church hymnal which dated it, mistakenly, to the 17th century, then for its being found on the bedside table of Adlai Stevenson upon his death in 1965, and then Les Crane's spoken-word recording in 1971 and 1972."
I'm not completely sure what this should be, but it doesn't seem to be grammatical English. 71.170.112.233 ( talk) 05:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I found this syntax mystifying myself. Is it missing a "became" there before "public"? Bryce ( talk) 05:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I think you're right Bryce. My take is that this sentence is trying to say that the book was not known during the authors lifetime, but became popular because of three usages: first in a church hymnal which mistakenly dated it to the 17th century, then when it was found on the bedside table of the American statesman Adlai Stevenson when he died in 1965, and third because of Les Crane's spoken-word recording in 1971 and 1972. Jaimalalatetre ( talk) 21:45, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
The next-to-top Google result for Desiderata after the Wikipedia article has two major typos, as well as punctuation differences. "Neither be critical about love" for "Neither be cynical about love" and "Be careful" for "Be cheerful." The webpage it is on has been online since 1996, and the typos on it have apparently propagated not only to other websites, but even to books. -- Larrybob ( talk) 20:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia version uses "vexatious" but many of the 3rd party versions I have seen use "vexations." Is this discrepancy intended? (never mind the irony of the next line warning against comparisons to others). -- Psifer ( talk) 13:58, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
No mention of the Klingon parody? 2001:56A:F414:D300:4417:E13A:6EBF:5E34 ( talk) 07:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
My attempt to justify the poem in the article on both the right and left, that was reverted, was to make it as faithful as possible to the earliest published version in 1948, a photocopy of which is two-thirds down www.desiderata.com. This includes requiring each line to begin and end with the same words as those in the photocopy, as poems are usually required to do. Readability was not a consideration – faithfulness to the original was. The 1948 published version has two words that are split at the end of a line, thus are hyphenated, with-out and trick-ery. I suspect this was an artifact of the publisher to which the author could not object because he was already dead. Nevertheless, it is what it is. — Joe Kress ( talk) 19:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm not certain if well-known parodies belong in the "Significan usages..." section, but not not knowing where else to put it, and feeling that Deteriorata deserved a mention, I added it there. 107.77.227.111 ( talk) 21:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)Barefoot Mike
- Deteriorata is a notable parody, and at a minimum should be included as a see-also link. AnonMoos ( talk) 23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
please stop attributing this piece to Max Ehrman. Desiderata dates much farther back. How much farther, none know for sure, but at least to the 15th Century, and probably much earlier. 68.59.55.124 ( talk) 14:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)