This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
While the news media may often seem bewildered by Benedict's resignation, such events are not unprecedented in the history of the Catholic church. Suggest changing this to something more neutral, while acknowledging the period of having both a pope and a pope emeritus has ended. The exact phrasing escapes me at the moment, however, and I don't have time to hash it out right now.
Please see Papal resignation for more information if needed. GrandMote ( talk) 14:38, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
It's important to note that Benedict specifically cited his own declining health in 2013 as the reason for his renunciation of the Petrine office. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
As you may know, many editors despise the list-formated "Reactions" section, especially the flag icons. It should be converted into prose--not a bulleted list. Direct quotes from pandering politicians are unencyclopedic and sourcing must be better than Twitter--which is primary. Abductive ( reasoning) 01:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
For anyone inclined to provide an appropriate overview of reactions in place of the tedious list now in place -- the usual people saying what's expected -- one of the better early summaries is at Crux World mourns loss of complicated, controversial and cerebral Pope Benedict. It has a good range of personal contacts, political types, and religious leaders and it includes some that are critical (both nuanced and not IMHO). Also mixed from NCR: Wealth of tribute comes for Benedict, who desired simplicity. Rutsq ( talk) 15:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Neveselbert: what problem do you see with the link format in the "External links" section. The MOS says only: The syntax for referencing a web address is simple. Just enclose it in single brackets with a space between the URL. The format seems more than adequate to me. Elizium23 ( talk) 14:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Citations templates such as‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 14:57, 1 January 2023 (UTC){{ cite web}}
should not be used in the==External links==
section. External link templates such as{{ official website}}
are used instead of citation templates.
The whole pattern of attributing every statement to Matteo Bruni personally is tedious and misleading. Unbiased statements of fact do not need to be attributed: he received the sacraments, his remains will lie in state, the funeral will happen in such a way. If WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV is indicated, then attribute statements to the Holy See because it's Bruni's job to release official statements and speak for the whole organisation. Using his personal name throughout the article is going to confuse readers and it's implying that this is some unofficial journalist or pundit. Elizium23 ( talk) 01:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Are we positive that the funeral held for Benedict will be a state funeral, per article title? Are there sources which specify this? I cannot find any, and in light of the current details, I must cast doubt on the certainty of it as well. Only German and Italian state dignitaries have been invited, and there shall be no other official delegations. Benedict's express wishes specify simplicity. No source in my review used the term "state funeral". Elizium23 ( talk) 03:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Ravenpuff, bad form to put an enduring situation in past tense. That is not consistent with the sources, much less reality. Elizium23 ( talk) 15:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
There is no need for a three-sentence verbatim quote of the Press Office on Benedict's health update, especially since it contains a painful translation of "stationary" which I presume they meant as "stable". Why don't we paraphrase the statement in part or in full and show our command of the English language? Elizium23 ( talk) 15:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Which relatives did attend? I've read somewhere that his closest surviving relative is a first cousin once removed. 84.167.80.80 ( talk) 18:26, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Why don't want to put the Latin inscription on the coffin and its English translation for the funeral of Benedict XVI? On the wikipedia page dedicated to the funeral of John Paul II there is. It is not clear why in this case it shouldn't be there. I want a plausible answer. Thank you AB120399 ( talk) 22:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I also attach a link where a series of photos were posted, among which the plaque with the inscription was clearly visible. Clearer than that... yet for you it's unreliable. It must be inserted as was done for John Paul II. If you think you are better, I will accept your input on this point. AB120399 ( talk) 23:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I am asking for two redirects which target this article ( State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI): can this funeral be considered as State funeral?
Also, what makes John Paul II's funeral a State funeral (see Death and state funeral of Pope John Paul II)? Veverve ( talk) 03:36, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Veverve: Elizium was indeffed. I lean against saying state funeral for the added reason that only secular government officials from Germany and Italy were invited, alongside the Holy See's statements that it wasn't in this case. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 03:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
the Holy See's statements that it wasn't in this case: could you link this statement? Or are tou referring to José Manuel Vidal's euronews interview you linked above? Veverve ( talk) 04:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Benedict XVI did request a slimmed down funeral. Perhaps because he was the shy type, or because he didn't die in office. So it would appear that means he didn't want a 'state funeral'. GoodDay ( talk) 04:55, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
RS explained that at least 400 bishops and archbishops attended the funeral. Is it necessary to mention only some of them in the "Religious representatives" subsection? I think it would be more appropriate to include that number of attendees and to include representatives of other religious denominations individually. _-_Alsor ( talk) 11:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 7 § State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Veverve ( talk) 14:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 7 § Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Veverve ( talk) 14:06, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
While the news media may often seem bewildered by Benedict's resignation, such events are not unprecedented in the history of the Catholic church. Suggest changing this to something more neutral, while acknowledging the period of having both a pope and a pope emeritus has ended. The exact phrasing escapes me at the moment, however, and I don't have time to hash it out right now.
Please see Papal resignation for more information if needed. GrandMote ( talk) 14:38, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
It's important to note that Benedict specifically cited his own declining health in 2013 as the reason for his renunciation of the Petrine office. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
As you may know, many editors despise the list-formated "Reactions" section, especially the flag icons. It should be converted into prose--not a bulleted list. Direct quotes from pandering politicians are unencyclopedic and sourcing must be better than Twitter--which is primary. Abductive ( reasoning) 01:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
For anyone inclined to provide an appropriate overview of reactions in place of the tedious list now in place -- the usual people saying what's expected -- one of the better early summaries is at Crux World mourns loss of complicated, controversial and cerebral Pope Benedict. It has a good range of personal contacts, political types, and religious leaders and it includes some that are critical (both nuanced and not IMHO). Also mixed from NCR: Wealth of tribute comes for Benedict, who desired simplicity. Rutsq ( talk) 15:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Neveselbert: what problem do you see with the link format in the "External links" section. The MOS says only: The syntax for referencing a web address is simple. Just enclose it in single brackets with a space between the URL. The format seems more than adequate to me. Elizium23 ( talk) 14:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Citations templates such as‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 14:57, 1 January 2023 (UTC){{ cite web}}
should not be used in the==External links==
section. External link templates such as{{ official website}}
are used instead of citation templates.
The whole pattern of attributing every statement to Matteo Bruni personally is tedious and misleading. Unbiased statements of fact do not need to be attributed: he received the sacraments, his remains will lie in state, the funeral will happen in such a way. If WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV is indicated, then attribute statements to the Holy See because it's Bruni's job to release official statements and speak for the whole organisation. Using his personal name throughout the article is going to confuse readers and it's implying that this is some unofficial journalist or pundit. Elizium23 ( talk) 01:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Are we positive that the funeral held for Benedict will be a state funeral, per article title? Are there sources which specify this? I cannot find any, and in light of the current details, I must cast doubt on the certainty of it as well. Only German and Italian state dignitaries have been invited, and there shall be no other official delegations. Benedict's express wishes specify simplicity. No source in my review used the term "state funeral". Elizium23 ( talk) 03:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Ravenpuff, bad form to put an enduring situation in past tense. That is not consistent with the sources, much less reality. Elizium23 ( talk) 15:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
There is no need for a three-sentence verbatim quote of the Press Office on Benedict's health update, especially since it contains a painful translation of "stationary" which I presume they meant as "stable". Why don't we paraphrase the statement in part or in full and show our command of the English language? Elizium23 ( talk) 15:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Which relatives did attend? I've read somewhere that his closest surviving relative is a first cousin once removed. 84.167.80.80 ( talk) 18:26, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Why don't want to put the Latin inscription on the coffin and its English translation for the funeral of Benedict XVI? On the wikipedia page dedicated to the funeral of John Paul II there is. It is not clear why in this case it shouldn't be there. I want a plausible answer. Thank you AB120399 ( talk) 22:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I also attach a link where a series of photos were posted, among which the plaque with the inscription was clearly visible. Clearer than that... yet for you it's unreliable. It must be inserted as was done for John Paul II. If you think you are better, I will accept your input on this point. AB120399 ( talk) 23:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I am asking for two redirects which target this article ( State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI): can this funeral be considered as State funeral?
Also, what makes John Paul II's funeral a State funeral (see Death and state funeral of Pope John Paul II)? Veverve ( talk) 03:36, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Veverve: Elizium was indeffed. I lean against saying state funeral for the added reason that only secular government officials from Germany and Italy were invited, alongside the Holy See's statements that it wasn't in this case. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 03:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
the Holy See's statements that it wasn't in this case: could you link this statement? Or are tou referring to José Manuel Vidal's euronews interview you linked above? Veverve ( talk) 04:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Benedict XVI did request a slimmed down funeral. Perhaps because he was the shy type, or because he didn't die in office. So it would appear that means he didn't want a 'state funeral'. GoodDay ( talk) 04:55, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
RS explained that at least 400 bishops and archbishops attended the funeral. Is it necessary to mention only some of them in the "Religious representatives" subsection? I think it would be more appropriate to include that number of attendees and to include representatives of other religious denominations individually. _-_Alsor ( talk) 11:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 7 § State funeral of Pope Benedict XVI until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Veverve ( talk) 14:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 7 § Death and state funeral of Pope Benedict XVI until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Veverve ( talk) 14:06, 7 January 2023 (UTC)