(Redirected from
Talk:David Gilliland Racing)
 | On 22 November 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to TRICON Garage. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
| On 16 March 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from David Gilliland Racing to Tricon Garage. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This page should be renamed TRICON Garage, as this is the team’s new name. UsernameThatIsOriginal ( talk) 03:41, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus. This can be relooked into again in the future when there are independent, reliable sources using the new name. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 06:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
David Gilliland Racing → TRICON Garage – Subject racing team has changed name. Target page was previously created blank and then redirected to old page, whereas old page should have been redirected to new target page at time of creation. History section of old page notes some questions about the timing of the team's name change, but sequence of events is reasonably explains withing the page content, as well as the date of the legal and official name change, all with accurate citations. Kyle4344 ( talk) 20:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- This is a contested technical request ( permalink). Happily888 ( talk) 00:33, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- @ Kyle4344 and BarrelProof: queried move request Happily888 ( talk) 00:35, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Weak oppose: The all-caps seems just promotional, as a neologism combining
tri- (three) with icon, so
MOS:TM should be considered. Has the
WP:Common name used in independent reliable sources changed? I note that the article says this name change will take place in the future. I suggest that some discussion is needed. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, I would agree that per MOS:TM the preference for standard English could apply.
- As to the WP:Common concern, I believe some have misread the official announcement in late October, presently referenced in footnote 5. That announcement was: "Toyota Racing Development (TRD) is pleased to announce a partnership with TRICON Garage, formerly David Gilliland Racing, beginning with the 2023 NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series." A plain reading of that sentence is that what begins in 2023 is not the new name, but rather TRD's partnership. That same sentence also recognizes the previous name of the race team as "formerly". Also, as presently referenced as footnote 1, the former name has been legally and officially abandoned and replaced and recorded with the NC Secretary of State.
- The WP:Common standard is: "If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well." As explained above, reliable sources have and do use the new name, both as a standalone, but sometimes in concert with the former name. I have not found any source written since the name change that continues to use only the former name as a standalone.
Kyle4344 (
talk) 15:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Have you found any independent reliable sources that use "TRICON Garage" without providing the old name? That could be a sign of acceptance of the new name. Also, are all independent reliable sources using all-caps for the "TRICON" part of it? —
BarrelProof (
talk) 20:12, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following link addresses both your questions: Dead On Tools expands partnership with TRICON Garage – Jayski's NASCAR Silly Season Site
[1]
Kyle4344 (
talk) 20:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Unless I'm mistaken, that's a press release signed by "— TRICON Garage —". That's not an
WP:independent reliable source. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- If you were looking for verification that the race team has in fact changed their name, I again refer you to the government documentation referenced in what is presently footnote 1 of the Article.
- I understood your request for “independent reliable sources that use ‘TRICON Garage’ without providing the old name…” as seeking examples of routine use of the new name. The example I provided demonstrates that the media has now adopted the new name, as the publisher is Jayski.com.
- Per WP:INDEPENDENT Jayski qualifies as an independent source, in that it has no vested interest in the given topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. It has editorial independence and no conflicts of interest.
- Jayski.com is a well-established news outlet, and per WP:RELIABLE is presumed to be generally reliable. As noted on the publisher’s web page, Jayski has existed since 1996, is well known by NASCAR fans, and is part of the NASCAR Digital Media Network.
- As an aside, although press releases may be unreliable as to issues of fact, the cautions enumerated in WP:INDEPENDENT. are not absolute. In any event, the credibility of the content of the press release regarding “Dead on Tools” is not relevant to this discussion. Kyle4344 ( talk) 03:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Unless I'm mistaken, that's a press release signed by "— TRICON Garage —". That's not an
WP:independent reliable source. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following link addresses both your questions: Dead On Tools expands partnership with TRICON Garage – Jayski's NASCAR Silly Season Site
[1]
Kyle4344 (
talk) 20:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Have you found any independent reliable sources that use "TRICON Garage" without providing the old name? That could be a sign of acceptance of the new name. Also, are all independent reliable sources using all-caps for the "TRICON" part of it? —
BarrelProof (
talk) 20:12, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per
WP:NAMECHANGES.
"...whereas old page should have been redirected to new target page at time of creation"
False. We change the article name after reliable sources begin predominately using the new name more than the old name; thus far this has not happened and likely will not until closer to the start of the new racing season. no need to be hasty moving this. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( c/ t) 06:28, 22 November 2022 (UTC)- Thank you for your observations. I could agree that whomever created the new "TRICON Garage" page may have been a bit hasty, the official announcement, as explained above, was arguably sufficient authority to move and create the new page. I don't believe creating the new page and redirecting it to the old page was the best approach.
- Given the circumstances, I do not believe it's helpful to delay the move to some future, unknown date, and my view is that the name change is sufficiently routine to favor cleaning this up now.
Kyle4344 (
talk) 15:34, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
"the official announcement, as explained above, was arguably sufficient authority to move and create the new page."
My entire point, which is explained perfectly well by WP:NAMECHANGES, is that it is not. People asking the question "which team did Hailie Deegan drive for this past season?" will likely be surprised when they go to her article, click the link in the first sentence of her article to David Gilliland Racing and find it's at a different title already. Sources are still having to mention that "TRICON Garage" is "formerly known as" David Gilliland Racing or "Team DGR", [2] [3] so I am not satisfied that the average reader has caught up with the change. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( c/ t) 01:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per WP:NAMECHANGES. To TRICON Garage, lowercase TRICON per WP:TM. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- PS A search of google news is showing that both names are being used together (ie the new name has not replaced the old in usage). Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose almost exactly per User:GhostOfDanGurney. The move should be made to some variant of "TRICON Garage" eventually, but not until the name is used in reliable sources. Frank Anchor 21:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can someone rename the page to Tricon Garage since the team rebranded? Threepeater11 ( talk) 00:10, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- As discussed in the recent WP:RM discussion, evidence of the WP:Common name used in WP:Independent reliable sources should be provided. "The team rebranded" is not a good enough reason by itself to rename an article, since that remark is not based on Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. If you think the circumstances have significantly changed since the recent move request discussion, instructions for opening a new move request discussion can be found at WP:RM. "Tricon" (as you suggested) may be better than "TRICON" for reasons described in MOS:ALLCAPS and WP:TITLETM. — BarrelProof ( talk) 00:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think we are at the point of changing this. Tricon is the standard in reporting via all major sources. I think the change should be similar to Legacy Motor Club as all caps are only for branding. It is not an acronym.
- [4]Toby Christie
- [5]Jayski
- [6]St. Louis Post Dispatch KD0710 ( talk) 13:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) SkyWarrior 00:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
David Gilliland Racing → Tricon Garage – As discussed above on the article Talk page, the team has rebranded, and various independent sources are now using the new name without reference to the prior name, thus meeting the criterion mentioned in the prior RM closing summary of November 2022. The team itself uses all-caps styling as "TRICON Garage", but "TRICON" is not an inititalism, so the all-caps is not suggested here ( MOS:ALLCAPS and WP:TITLETM). — BarrelProof ( talk) 19:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. NASCARfan0548 (alt) ↗ 17:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Redirected from
Talk:David Gilliland Racing)
 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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| On 22 November 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to TRICON Garage. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
| On 16 March 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from David Gilliland Racing to Tricon Garage. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This page should be renamed TRICON Garage, as this is the team’s new name. UsernameThatIsOriginal ( talk) 03:41, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus. This can be relooked into again in the future when there are independent, reliable sources using the new name. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 06:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
David Gilliland Racing → TRICON Garage – Subject racing team has changed name. Target page was previously created blank and then redirected to old page, whereas old page should have been redirected to new target page at time of creation. History section of old page notes some questions about the timing of the team's name change, but sequence of events is reasonably explains withing the page content, as well as the date of the legal and official name change, all with accurate citations. Kyle4344 ( talk) 20:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- This is a contested technical request ( permalink). Happily888 ( talk) 00:33, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- @ Kyle4344 and BarrelProof: queried move request Happily888 ( talk) 00:35, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Weak oppose: The all-caps seems just promotional, as a neologism combining
tri- (three) with icon, so
MOS:TM should be considered. Has the
WP:Common name used in independent reliable sources changed? I note that the article says this name change will take place in the future. I suggest that some discussion is needed. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, I would agree that per MOS:TM the preference for standard English could apply.
- As to the WP:Common concern, I believe some have misread the official announcement in late October, presently referenced in footnote 5. That announcement was: "Toyota Racing Development (TRD) is pleased to announce a partnership with TRICON Garage, formerly David Gilliland Racing, beginning with the 2023 NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series." A plain reading of that sentence is that what begins in 2023 is not the new name, but rather TRD's partnership. That same sentence also recognizes the previous name of the race team as "formerly". Also, as presently referenced as footnote 1, the former name has been legally and officially abandoned and replaced and recorded with the NC Secretary of State.
- The WP:Common standard is: "If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well." As explained above, reliable sources have and do use the new name, both as a standalone, but sometimes in concert with the former name. I have not found any source written since the name change that continues to use only the former name as a standalone.
Kyle4344 (
talk) 15:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Have you found any independent reliable sources that use "TRICON Garage" without providing the old name? That could be a sign of acceptance of the new name. Also, are all independent reliable sources using all-caps for the "TRICON" part of it? —
BarrelProof (
talk) 20:12, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following link addresses both your questions: Dead On Tools expands partnership with TRICON Garage – Jayski's NASCAR Silly Season Site
[1]
Kyle4344 (
talk) 20:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Unless I'm mistaken, that's a press release signed by "— TRICON Garage —". That's not an
WP:independent reliable source. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- If you were looking for verification that the race team has in fact changed their name, I again refer you to the government documentation referenced in what is presently footnote 1 of the Article.
- I understood your request for “independent reliable sources that use ‘TRICON Garage’ without providing the old name…” as seeking examples of routine use of the new name. The example I provided demonstrates that the media has now adopted the new name, as the publisher is Jayski.com.
- Per WP:INDEPENDENT Jayski qualifies as an independent source, in that it has no vested interest in the given topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. It has editorial independence and no conflicts of interest.
- Jayski.com is a well-established news outlet, and per WP:RELIABLE is presumed to be generally reliable. As noted on the publisher’s web page, Jayski has existed since 1996, is well known by NASCAR fans, and is part of the NASCAR Digital Media Network.
- As an aside, although press releases may be unreliable as to issues of fact, the cautions enumerated in WP:INDEPENDENT. are not absolute. In any event, the credibility of the content of the press release regarding “Dead on Tools” is not relevant to this discussion. Kyle4344 ( talk) 03:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Unless I'm mistaken, that's a press release signed by "— TRICON Garage —". That's not an
WP:independent reliable source. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 21:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- The following link addresses both your questions: Dead On Tools expands partnership with TRICON Garage – Jayski's NASCAR Silly Season Site
[1]
Kyle4344 (
talk) 20:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Have you found any independent reliable sources that use "TRICON Garage" without providing the old name? That could be a sign of acceptance of the new name. Also, are all independent reliable sources using all-caps for the "TRICON" part of it? —
BarrelProof (
talk) 20:12, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per
WP:NAMECHANGES.
"...whereas old page should have been redirected to new target page at time of creation"
False. We change the article name after reliable sources begin predominately using the new name more than the old name; thus far this has not happened and likely will not until closer to the start of the new racing season. no need to be hasty moving this. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( c/ t) 06:28, 22 November 2022 (UTC)- Thank you for your observations. I could agree that whomever created the new "TRICON Garage" page may have been a bit hasty, the official announcement, as explained above, was arguably sufficient authority to move and create the new page. I don't believe creating the new page and redirecting it to the old page was the best approach.
- Given the circumstances, I do not believe it's helpful to delay the move to some future, unknown date, and my view is that the name change is sufficiently routine to favor cleaning this up now.
Kyle4344 (
talk) 15:34, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
"the official announcement, as explained above, was arguably sufficient authority to move and create the new page."
My entire point, which is explained perfectly well by WP:NAMECHANGES, is that it is not. People asking the question "which team did Hailie Deegan drive for this past season?" will likely be surprised when they go to her article, click the link in the first sentence of her article to David Gilliland Racing and find it's at a different title already. Sources are still having to mention that "TRICON Garage" is "formerly known as" David Gilliland Racing or "Team DGR", [2] [3] so I am not satisfied that the average reader has caught up with the change. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( c/ t) 01:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per WP:NAMECHANGES. To TRICON Garage, lowercase TRICON per WP:TM. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- PS A search of google news is showing that both names are being used together (ie the new name has not replaced the old in usage). Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose almost exactly per User:GhostOfDanGurney. The move should be made to some variant of "TRICON Garage" eventually, but not until the name is used in reliable sources. Frank Anchor 21:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can someone rename the page to Tricon Garage since the team rebranded? Threepeater11 ( talk) 00:10, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- As discussed in the recent WP:RM discussion, evidence of the WP:Common name used in WP:Independent reliable sources should be provided. "The team rebranded" is not a good enough reason by itself to rename an article, since that remark is not based on Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. If you think the circumstances have significantly changed since the recent move request discussion, instructions for opening a new move request discussion can be found at WP:RM. "Tricon" (as you suggested) may be better than "TRICON" for reasons described in MOS:ALLCAPS and WP:TITLETM. — BarrelProof ( talk) 00:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think we are at the point of changing this. Tricon is the standard in reporting via all major sources. I think the change should be similar to Legacy Motor Club as all caps are only for branding. It is not an acronym.
- [4]Toby Christie
- [5]Jayski
- [6]St. Louis Post Dispatch KD0710 ( talk) 13:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) SkyWarrior 00:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
David Gilliland Racing → Tricon Garage – As discussed above on the article Talk page, the team has rebranded, and various independent sources are now using the new name without reference to the prior name, thus meeting the criterion mentioned in the prior RM closing summary of November 2022. The team itself uses all-caps styling as "TRICON Garage", but "TRICON" is not an inititalism, so the all-caps is not suggested here ( MOS:ALLCAPS and WP:TITLETM). — BarrelProof ( talk) 19:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. NASCARfan0548 (alt) ↗ 17:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.