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It's getting tiresome seeing Tags slapped onto articles with no explanations, especially when the tags themselves require just that. If someone chooses to rate this article, please indicate the reasoning, or leave it to someone else. Granted there is an article that explains the general idea of the ratings, but then it's a guessing game as to how it applies. And if the response is "It should be obvious", well, assume it's not. x 05:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted a change about the Animaniacs, not because I think it's wrong, but because I'd like to see something specific as to how this correction is more accurate. E.G. what episode was she mentioned in, and what year was that ep made? My understanding is that though Animaniacs was indeed beng produced before Superman:TAS started, that additional new eps were made afterwards. Any specifics please? x 13:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
This isn't about Animaniacs -- but the list of film credits omits one of her guest performances on Cheers. Dana Delany played a kindergarten teacher, a love interest of Sam Malone. It must have been in the 1980s but I don't know the name of the episode. But I definitely saw her as a guest star on the situation comedy Cheers. I don't know how to put this in the credits since I don't have the full information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.86.208 ( talk) 01:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC) Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I have gone over the filmography and used a reference to the Internet Movie Database (IMDb) (which had a much more thorough listing of all Dana's acting work) to update the filmography. The earlier Filmography omitted China Beach! so I put that in there, plus there were other films, voice-work, and TV credits that were added. So hopefully it is more up to date now. I figured out how to add a new line within a year. The key is making sure the "rowspan" number is right, and then playing with it to see if the grid comes out right. For example, if you're adding a film to 2002, it will say rowspan=2 if there are, say, two films she did that year; but if you're adding a new film, you have to make it say rowspan=3 because there will be three films. I copied and pasted the vertical line (there isn't one on my keyboard). There's a trial-and-error process and if you stick with it, it's not that hard to edit these grid boxes. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Though Lois Lane is a notable and iconic character in popular culture, I disagree that Dana is particularly noted for this voice over role, which is my understanding to be the intent of that section. x 22:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
“ | sorry but she's not really "noted" for that, though she's done it for a long time) | ” |
Frankly, this is a point-of-view statement (with no real evidence on the contrary) that was made. Also you seem to be contradicting yourself when you say that she isn't really "noted" for her voice-over work as Lois Lane, even though she's been doing it for a long time. TMC1982 8:56 p.m., 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Lois Lane is a fairly iconic character in popular culture (being an important part in the Superman, the most recognizable superhero of all-time, mythos). TMC1982 1:13 p.m., 1 May 2007 (UTC)
“ |
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001127/board/flat/37615917?p=1
Lois Lane by rpitoniak (Fri Mar 3 2006 23:28:56 )
i agree Dana would have been MUCH better than Kate Bosworth (who really can't act) but can we focus on getting the Wikipedia article right? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer ps Dana Delany rules.
Re: Lois Lane by I_AintFraidOfNoGhost (Thu Jun 8 2006 15:53:46 )
Re: Lois Lane by krnhorang85 (Tue Aug 1 2006 08:18:50 ) That would have been a good idea 20 years ago. I think her interpretation of Lois Lane works the best. Re: Lois Lane by jhoang85 (Fri Sep 15 2006 08:23:38 ) I also love her as the voice of lois lane. Dana Delany definitely has one of the sexiest voices I've ever heard. She's so beautiful, and I really hope that this new show "Kidnapped" will showcase her acting abilities and win her even more fans. Re: Lois Lane by patricia_chang_gorgeous (Fri Sep 29 2006 14:05:56 ) Dana Delany would've been a 500 times better Lois Lane than that poorest Kate Bosworth was |
” |
TMC1982 1:19 p.m., 1 May 2007 (UTC)
i agree with your assessment but we should stick to making a great wikipedia article Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this sentence:
Dana's great-grandfather John J. Delany founded the Coyne & Delany toilet valve company in 1879. citation needed
as it's not really about her personal or public life, it's more a trivia item about her family. Maybe a trivia section is needed? x ( talk) 03:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I can see your reasoning for removing the detail about her great-grandfather; if you're a guy, chances are you've seen the word "Delany" on toilets (I have); still, I think it's an interesting detail that perhaps should appear somewhere in this article. I like the idea of a trivia section. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information (from a trivia site) about the flush valve in case you want to include it: Toilet flush valves. The Delany Flush Valve is a diaphragm valve used on commercial toilets not equipped with water tanks. This type of valve and plumbing mechanism is used almost universally in commercial and public restroom facilities. The Coyne & Delany Company was founded in 1879 by John J. Delany and Thomas Coyne, and is located in Charlottesville, Virginia; they have a web site at www.coynedelany.com. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
One other thing about Coyne-Delany flush valves. Other sites featuring Dana Delany with biographies usually mention the flush valve connection. Yahoo movies described her as the granddaughter of the inventor of the flush valve (not great granddaughter). So I think we should consider taking a cue from other sites and including it -- plus, I think it's an interesting factoid. Check out yahoo movies: http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800025956/bio Tomwsulcer ( talk) 01:47, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I've removed this:
Delany, along with the cast, was nominated at the 14th Annual Screen Actor's Guild Award for Best Ensemble in a Comedy Series. Because she has received such critical and commercial acclaim for her role on the show, it is widely speculated that this role will earn Delany yet another Emmy this year.
It reads more like a news item than as enclopedic content, is a bit gossipy, refers to present and future tenses which is preferred to be avoided in WP articles, and some of it is POV. x ( talk) 17:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I think this was a good choice to remove this -- it does sound newsy, and it won't be important in a year or so from now. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I've removed this:
In 1990, she was featured on the hard to find China Beach soundtrack album "Music & Memories" singing the song "Far From Home."
It's kind of a digression where it was placed, maybe it could be added as trivia in a separate section? Also, make it less POV. x ( talk) 15:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
-- Cokeandpoprocks ( talk) 12:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree the photo should be changed but my issue isn't that the photo doesn't look like Dana, but rather that it's a side shot which doesn't fully reflect her beauty; better shot is a full-on face shot but where she's looking to the side. I think we should change the photo. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I'm thinking there should be more in this article about how Dana looks at film-making, television, success. Right now the article only lists her accomplishments (she starred in this, she did this movie, etc.) But the article could be improved (in my view) with her thoughts about being an actress, about technique; and this stuff is out there. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Great quote from People magazine article in April 1991: "Always get a good haircut," she (Dana) advises, and little wonder. When Delany tried out as nurse Colleen McMurphy on China Beach, she was shown the door. "They thought I wasn't pretty enough," she explains. Then director Paul (American Gigolo) Schrader asked her to cut her long tresses into a bob to play a terrorist in Patty Hearst. After the China Beach producers lost their first choice, they saw delovely Delany a new and flipped—as soon did much of America. Now Schrader is having Delany trimmed again, this time to play an ex-junkie in his Light Sleeper. Even if lightning doesn't strike twice, Delany is secure in her looks. "I know my weak points," she says. "But I've thought I was attractive since I was a girl because my father thought I was. He must have been kind. I was always cute, but I was a butterball." Source: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20063419,00.html
Marital/Family history and current status is missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.36.89.7 ( talk) 17:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree the marital family history stuff is interesting and perhaps should be in there. I don't think she has yet married, but she had interesting relationships with famous people (possibly Treat Williams, Henry Czerny, others), and this is the kind of stuff (unfortunately) that people are interested in. If memory is right, I think her parents divorced when she was, perhaps, 18, and did this have any influence on her life? Is this the kind of stuff that typically appears in biographies of actors -- I think it is. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Information from a website (not necessarily a good source) about Dana's early family life: Dana Welles Delany was born on March 13, 1956. She was raised in Stamford, Connecticut and Charlottesville, Virginia. She was born in New York, New York. Dana was born in Manhattan, and spent most of her childhood living in Stamford. Her parents divorced when Dana was 16, after which she moved to Charlottesville with her father and siblings. Dana has one sister (an interior designer) and one brother (an attorney). Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Here's more information from the source uk.askmen.com --> Although Dana has had several long-term relationships -- and a reportedly not so long-term one with Treat Williams -- she remains unattached. "I honestly haven't found the right guy," she explains. Dana has come to realize that her career isn't everything, since "I've reached a place with my work where I'm ready to concentrate more on life." Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information from Movietome about Dana's thinking about marriage -- Dana is very close to her sister. She said on The View (December of 2007) that her sister's 30 year marriage has broken up and she was taking her on holiday for the 2007 Christmas. When she appeared on The View in December of 2007, Dana admitted that getting married and having children has never been a priority for her. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information from Movietome to consider adding to the article (about Dana commenting on her personal life): Dana: I like people who are still actively creating in their life, who aren't set, I don't feel like I'm set. And I don't have any baggage, for better or worse. I don't have any plants or pets or kids. I can lock the door and go. I need to be with somebody for whom that's okay. Dana: Marriage has never been a big deal for me, but I think I'm ready now. Before, I wanted adventures. I feel like, in some ways, I was smarter than anybody. I got to have all the fun in the world, to experience a lot of people and figure out what I really like. I got to evolve. Now I know what makes me happy Dana: I've been dating younger men since my 20s, When I was 29, I dated someone 21… younger men are just more fun. I like their energy. I've always been kind of young for my age. Dana: Television is more of a business. You can't take as many risks, because there's so many channels now, and the advertising's dropping. Dana: I have faith in my imperfections! Dana (on joining the cast of "Desperate Housewives"): It was a little bit like trying to board a train that’s left the station. But I’ve been around a long time, and I’ve never worked on a show that’s run so smoothly. All the kinks are worked out. Whatever rumors there were in the past, the actresses have worked it all out. Dana (on Christoper Reeve): Chris was an old friend of mine from my early days in New York. There's something about him in that role (Superman) that was just meant to be. He never shined more (as an actor) than when he was playing that part. And certainly after the accident, he rose to the integrity of that role. I think he surprised all of us (with) how amazing he was. He's one of those guys you look at and go 'there but for the grace of G-d'; I don't know that I could have done the same in his situation. Dana: In Europe the parents are included as with children. All three generations are together. I'm thinking of Italy. You go out on a Sunday afternoon and the whole family is there. Dana: I'm the worst rider. I'm a terrible rider. Me and horses are not a good mix. For some reason, people are always trying to get me on a horse in a movie. Dana: (talking about crying on camera) Once I hit my 40's, I found it very, very easy to cry. There is something about hitting midlife. It's not really a sign of sadness when I cry. I'm just grateful to be alive. Dana: We all know that television is better for women as they get into their 40s. You could be more three-dimensional, not just the wife or the mother. Dana: I've reached a place with my work where I'm ready to concentrate more on life. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:55, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Great quotes for possible consideration about putting it in the article. The source was Movietome. Here they go: Dana: I love being on stage or in front of the camera. My work brings me a lot of joy. It helps me figure out who I am. I'm really lucky that I get to make a living at acting. Dana: I think I would make a good spy. I can sort of be a chameleon. People don't notice me very easily. I never get recognized. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think this stuff is interesting and helps round out the article, gives the article life, but I don't think we should focus too much on it. I'm thinking one line in the personal section listing some of the boyfriends (without dates) and listing yahoo as the source. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 01:52, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update: my current thinking is we should leave all the boyfriend stuff OUT (based on sensible advice from Tabercil and Hullaballoo Wolfowitz) because as they point out, the sources which provide this information are shaky, so the information may be wrong, and even while I find it is interesting, we have to really only include neutral POV which is relevant and based on good sources. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
In the "early work" section, there was no information about her appearances on TV soap operas or possibly early Broadway work -- rather, after college, it jumps right into 1988 (10 years later) with her first big big break -- getting the role on "China Beach". I think there should be more information about how she learned how to act (did she take lessons with Stanislavski) and how she made the transition to television in Hollywood. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 03:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Here's source material from a trivia site about her early years as an actress: she got a theatrical degree in Wesleyan University graduating 1978. She starred in two daytime soap operas: "As the World Turns" and "Love of Life". Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I was wondering what to do when some of the movies listed appear in red. This means as we know that the movie (for example, Baby For Sale) doesn't have a Wikipedia page. Should we (1) leave the movie there in red with the hope that somebody in future might create a Wikipedia page for this movie or (2) remove the brackets (and leave the single-quote mark symbols) so that the name of the movie appears in italics, but not in blue (or red). If somebody knows what to do here, please advise. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update -- excellent editor ShelfSkewed said how to handle Redlinks is a matter of opinion, but leans towards leaving it in since it indicates a possible future article that future wikipedia editors may wish to write. So I am siding with ShelfSkewed about this unless I get more information. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed how Eva Longoria had an awards and nominations section and Dana didn't, so I copied Longoria's and updated it with Emmy, Golden Globe and Q award information. I bet there are other awards Dana has won. Does anybody know what they are? If so, please add them. It's a little tricky to modify the box, but just remember to copy a whole chunk, beginning with the first vertical line to the left, and which ends with a vertical line followed by a minus sign. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Wondering if awards like in 1998, Wesleyan presented Dana with a Distinguished Alumni Award in recognition for her professional accomplishments. Should this be included with awards like Emmys and Golden Globes? Probably not, but wondering if we should put it in elsewhere? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
There are probably other awards -- Prism awards, Screen Actors Guild awards (SAG) that need to be researched, and included. I haven't had time to do this yet. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed Marcia Cross has an "additional achievements" section with things like being one of the most beautiful people in a certain year, a magazine naming her "woman of the year, etc. I think Dana needs one too. So I lifted the format from Marcia Cross's page (I hope she won't be cross about this -- sorry very bad pun) and we should put stuff about Dana in there, plus have a note at the bottom about the references. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
There are CERTAINLY other notable achievements that can be put in here. I haven't yet fully researched them. But things like magazine endorsements. I wonder if there's any database which tracks how often stars are featured on the covers of prominent magazines? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update: this section has been removed since there was only one line. But if more awards and nominations are found by future researchers, and you want to put it back in, then consider doing this. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think the article is getting much better, the information is solid with excellent references, but the subcategories are somewhat off. There's a section called "Voice work" which interrupts the early career and later career stuff (but I agree with editors who think Dana's voice work is important and should be emphasized, although I don't think it should be included as a major section, but rather mixed into the chronological sections). But it's like the format switches gears mid-stream (sorry about mixing metaphors) from chronology to type of work (ie voice), and I hope we could get something which is more logically consistent, as well as helping readers find information that they need quickly. And I think all of it could be better organized somehow. I think most biographies have a chronological format, from early to current, and this is the best choice. I'm wondering: what categories can we have which keeps the chronological format while emphasizing the voice work? I've been researching this actress for some time now and my sense is that she's not a lightweight pretty face type actress but a serious, intense heavy-duty one who can master tough roles, a powerhouse who loves acting but sometimes gets snared in frivolous projects, and the consistent thing about her career is: a love of acting. That's what she loves. And I don't think things like friendships or causes should have their own section but rather should be included in the chronology when they're relevant and appropriate. But here's my sense of her career goes something like this --
I. early life (birth, schooling)
II. New York City -- breaking into the business
Soap operas Broadway (critical reviews) Off-Broadway (critical attention) Key friendships and connections (Christopher Reeve, for example)
III. Early Hollywood years (TV guest starring spots, China Beach) -- establishing herself as a major actress
TV guest starring spots (showcasing her talent) China Beach (should include: how did she get this role? should get its own paragraph I think, mentioning Emmys plus critical attention) Movies TV movies Voice work (The Batman/Superman, Lois Lane, fan reactions, critical acclaim -- Why Dana = major voice talent) Relationships (there are dates so we could put this in where appropriate)
IV. Later Hollywood years -- pursuing acting
More TV work (sitcoms that didn't get off the ground, critical reviews, etc) Other projects (narrating, Vietnam nurses, audio books) Guest spots on talk shows Dana-as-a-celebrity (being a presenter in awards shows, talk show appearances, interactions with fans) Causes (scleroderma, other causes) Relationships/personal
V. Filmography
VI. Awards
VII. Notable achievements
VIII. References
So, my question to other editors is: do you like this organizational scheme? Or can we think of something better? I'm interested in getting feedback from excellent wikipedia editors such as yourself. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Since you, Tomwsulcer, seem to be using this article as a learning experience, I thought I'd just pick a few nits for you by suggesting some small corrections. And maybe you'll learn a bit more as you go...
These, along with Tabercil's suggestions, should make for a pretty solid article. Oh, and if you need a quote from her interview in the August '94 issue of Playboy, let me know. The issue is in my collection. Dismas| (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I've been researching newspapers and reputable sources for good critical commentary. It's always positive. I have yet to come across a critic who said Dana really screwed up a role but I keep searching (and if I find it, I'll put that in, because I'm trying to be balanced and fair). Note: one unofficial critic described DD as "seriously bad" in Tombstone but I didn't think this reviewer was associated with a reputable newspaper or magazine. What happens is this: Dana tends to go for complex, dark, multi-faceted roles with good writing, but these TV shows don't hit the mass market -- the shows are liked by critics, but the public can't follow them, and they get canned. Or, the show screws up, or the director, or any number of factors screw things up. Many projects she's worked on have not panned out, but this is how the business works I suppose (I don't think it's her fault). But China Beach was one of the critically-acclaimed TV shows which tried to find an audience -- it lasted for 3 years surprisingly -- and then went down the tubes (perhaps by bad choices by the producers in the third year?) Ditto, Pasadena -- great TV show, too intellectual for the public, but Dana was great in it. Then, she'll appear in mass market fodder like Desperate Housewives which tends to be dumbed down (but Dana still does a good job of acting). But this stuff gets her lots of attention and helps her keep acting -- and that I think is the dominant principle at work -- she loves acting -- that's it -- I don't think she's in it for the celebrity or money or fame -- rather, she loves the process of acting, and she's VERY good at it, not just a pretty face. What do other editors think about this? And does this article convey this? I think there was one TV show where I thought she was miscast -- something about her playing an FBI agent -- I remember seeing it myself back in the 1980s and thinking "hey, she's not an FBI agent", but I can't find critical commentary on this. But I'm looking for more interview like stuff in which she describes her thoughts about acting, celebrity, show business, and such, and I think this will help improve the article. Right now, I'm doing Google searches within a newspaper's site (so hopefully whatever I find will have a reputable source) and then see if any of it is worth putting in the article. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update on critical commentary and general work on the article: I continued searching for negative reviews about Dana's performance, from established critics (newspapers, TV channels, other reputable sources) but really haven't found any. I found some great interviews in which she speaks openly about her life, acting. This stuff is interesting to me, and I interspersed some of her comments in the article so it makes it more lively, more well-rounded, like Dana's take on playing Katherine Mayfair. I added about how she turned down the role of Carrie in Sex and the City, supported by two references. Overall I think the article is getting stronger, more specific, more interesting but I still am not totally happy with the organizational format and I'd love to see more pictures. I wonder how to get information about her theater work at Wesleyan University? She must have done some interesting stuff there. Plus, there is information about her parents' rather tough divorce -- quotes from Dana herself about this -- and how it may have impacted her views on marriage; I think this stuff is interesting but I'm wondering whether the sources are strong enough to justify inclusion into the article. I'm wondering what other editors such as the illustrious Tabercil and the illustrious Dismas think about this. Also, if there's great information from a Playboy article (Tabercil said this or Dismas, I can't remember) -- if I can get this, I'll put stuff in if you like. Also, I'm noticing inconsistencies in the article, like sometimes a show is properly listed with italics and in color, sometimes it isn't. Also, I think we should consider putting the stuff about the Coyne-Delany flush valve back in (if editors agree?) because I think it's an interesting factoid; Dana has commented herself in interviews about the valve, and it positions her somewhat in a historical context within US history, that is, she comes from a somewhat-established entrepreneurial business family. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Editors might notice that sometimes there are three or four references following a line. I put in lots of references because I thought this was the only way to get the Wikibots to remove the tag which complained about lack of references -- and the tag or flag stayed there (and I kept adding references) until I finally realized that I, myself, could remove the tag (which I did). Not one of my more brilliant moments, sorry. The excellent Tabercil suggested that some references can be removed, so other editors might want to do this, hopefully keeping the BEST references, and when there's a controversial quote, or something which may be disputed (especially like DD's decisions to turn down big roles) I think it's better to leave more references in, to back up what the article is about. But the excellent Tabercil suggests references may not be needed when it's just a line about "Delany made such and such a movie in 1991". My bias is to kind of reference everything but I'm probably overdoing things. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 13:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Clicking on "Choices of the Heart" leads to the incorrect 1983 "Choices of the Heart" movie, not the 1995 "Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story". There is a Wikipedia page for the 1983 movie but none for the 1995 movie. Not sure what to do here -- is it worth creating a wikipedia page for the 1995 movie? Or remove the brackets around the words "choices of the heart" in the DD article? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 13:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think there are better pictures of Dana available -- this side shot is okay but I'm wondering if people think we can't find a better picture. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
About an alternative picture: I think the picture of Dana as Katherine Mayfair is much more accurate than the current picture. Plus there are probably no copyright issues since the picture is already working for the "Katherine Mayfair" wikipedia page. I think we should switch the picture but I would prefer if other editors make this decision. Plus, I'm not that familiar with how to get the technical stuff right. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I copied information from the Katherine Mayfair page:
Note: removed extra stuff from Katherine Mayfair photo Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:30, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed on Eva Longoria's page there are TWO pictures -- so why can't we have two pictures of Dana? And I can copy the one from the Katherine Mayfair wikipedia article and use the whole thing becuase it's relevant and formatted and it will make the whole article more visually appealing. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 20:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Note: I added pictures from the Wikimedia Commons (so no copyright problems) because the whole thing has expanded (with longer filmography, references, notable achievements) and it looks boring without something visual on there. So now there are more pictures of Dana so it's doesn't look like a market research report. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update on pictures: as I write, there are three working pictures of Dana in the article, down from four (one picture of her as Katherine Mayfair got yanked by the Tabercil because of some copyright problems I was unaware of -- so good that we're not doing anything wrong here). Still, I think pictures improve the look of this article and I think if we can get more pictures in it, the article will be more fun to look at (and hopefully to read too). So if other editors can help here with how to get them, put them in, without violating copyright stuff, please go ahead. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Noticed great pictures from Tabercil. Great! Makes the article look SO much better! Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Hope this helps. x ( talk) 14:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
General problem with Dana Delany pictures is pictures don't show her acting but are posed after-event celebrity shots or getting awards. There are only eight (8) shots of DD on the Commons. And I think the posed shots are misleading because DD's career isn't about celebrity or awards but acting. Removed address/phone of DD's talent agency. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 00:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
with a simple request: please UPLOAD pictures of Dana acting in various roles to Wikipedia's Commons site at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and make sure to fill out the copyright permissions and tags and descriptors so we can improve her article. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Wondering if anybody minds. I tend to type too much and want to cut out much of my former junk. If nobody objects, I'll whittle down my OWN (nobody else's) stuff so this talk page doesn't get too long. Okay? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
A disclaimer: Actually I've done a lot of editing of this article in the past, but I've seen a large amount of recent edits being done, which might fail the Stability requirement as mentioned in the
Wikipedia:Good article nominations (even if not specifically a result of an edit war).
A lot of these edits, though copious in information and probably accurate, don't seem fit the standards that I understand to be applicable to Wiki articles, or fitting the Wikipedia:Good article criteria, mainly relating to keeping it to Broad Coverage. A lot of quotes and individual remarks have been added, that seem excessive and bring in some POV concerns as well, making it read more like a magazine article than an encyclopedic one.
This article may need some clean up before being passed. x ( talk) 15:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
A disclaimer: I've done considerable editing recently on the Dana Delany article, but wanted to add my two cents. I kind of agree that the article has become somewhat long, but I think this could be solved by better organization -- perhaps a paragraph or two summarizing the major events of her theatrical career, specifically the China Beach stuff and the Desperate Housewives stuff, like near the top (under the first paragraph). Or maybe an expanded first paragraph? I think most readers would only be interested in these two things (ie CB and DH). But, for the few readers who are interested in more detailed information, I recommend keeping the critics' comments in, although perhaps the list of films and projects she's worked on could be shortened. The filmography (I think) is great -- I combined stuff from numerous sites as well as put new stuff in, and meticulously checked this over. I bet Wikipedia has the MOST AUTHORITATIVE FILMOGRAPHY of DD and this will help Wikipedia's reputation I hope (although I'll try to keep it updated as DD does new stuff.) I hunted extensively for both positive and negative criticism of her work -- the only negative stuff I found was a blogger's comment that DD was lousy in something (and blogger = flaky source as you know); in addition, critic Terrence Rafferty once described one of her performances as "uninteresting", but I didn't know what that meant, and didn't know how to include it. DD is a talented actress who rarely screws up a role -- if you hunt through the web for negative stuff, it's very hard to find. Many of the films she was in sucked -- I put that info in, too, like when a film got mixed to negative reviews (Housesitter was lackluster in my personal opinion too). And my personal opinion was that she sucked in some TV role I saw her in (casting problem probably) and I can't remember the name of the show -- it was in the early 90s I think -- but that's my personal opinion, not printable. My biggest problem with the DD article so far is that the pictures are boring -- just DD accepting awards like at Emmys -- I'd like to see pictures of DD starring in actual productions -- but even though I tried writing and phoning her agents, requesting better pictures, nothing seems to happen about getting better pictures. My personal bias is to include more pictures since I think too much text is a turnoff. And, I don't think the "voice talent" stuff is that important, but there are users who relate to this stuff, and I don't want to get into an edit war with them about this detail. But generally I'm going to only watch the DD page and not do anything major for a long while since I'm doing stuff on BMC Software and Statistics New Zealand and other stuff I know nothing about. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 17:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
This GA review seems to be orphaned, and a bit old (GA reviews should not take longer than 2-3 weeks). To sum the article up against the six GA criteria, I don't think this passes at the present time. Here's the summary:
I know there are some editors who love DD's voice-work and relate to it; but I don't think "Work on Lois Lane" deserves its own sub-subsection -- if we add one sub-subsection, and it's the only one, it looks odd -- possibly we'll have to add more sub-subsections (which I advise against since it doesn't add more information and I don't think it will help readers find stuff). I advise removing the "Work on Lois Lane" header. I'm a writer. Please trust my thinking on this. My bias is towards making this article better, hopefully a "good article", maybe someday a "featured article". If we can make it a featured article, then possibly more readers will look at it. If the interest of other editors is helping DD gain more exposure, and tell more readers about the Lois Lane stuff, then things like editing for flow will help. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Love the voice work in the header section. Shows how petty and evil wikipedia editors can be. Great job! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.213.131.190 ( talk) 17:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Generally, I think we have limited choices here about how to organize this article -- chronological or by type of work (TV, movies, stage, voice). The format now is mostly chronological (with subsections -- 1980s, 1990s, 2000s etc), except the voice work is somewhat out of sequence chronologically. So, some of the voice work from the early 1990s, as well as later 2000s, is in a clump around the later 1990s -- somewhat out of sequence; in addition, her cause-related work is in a clump of its own at the bottom. But this structure is similar to what many other celebrities have, probably helpful for readers, I think, to find information they're seeking quickly. I don't think there are any great organizational alternatives here. I lean towards the chronological structure because it makes it possible to put in interesting stuff like DD's initial turn-down of her D.Housewives role, or her initial attempts at the China Beach role. I tried organizing it by type of project, but then it didn't look right to my eyes. And I don't think acting on a stage is that different from acting on TV (that is, enough to merit separating the two). What I'm saying is -- let's stick with one structure (I favor chronological). Further, another benefit of the chronological structure is that it makes it easy for future editors to add new stuff as DD does new projects -- they put it at the bottom. If an editor wants to totally rewrite the DD article by type of project, this is a lot of work, but I'll consider serious changes, but to do this well one would have to be a fairly good writer I think; ,I think we should stick with the chronological structure that we've got. The exception is if a future editor feels the whole article is too long, and wants to cut substantial portions of it, then considerations of topic-related organization might be feasible. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I am quite disappointed that you failed to mention in Dana Delany's bio that she appeared as Josephine Marcus in the movie "TOMBSTONE" with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.154.174 ( talk) 17:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
I've included these two in a sentence. But couldn't provide proper reference. Could anyone please help me? ANUbOMB ( talk) 08:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
She starred in Tombstone. Missing from the 90s. filmography — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.176.160.26 ( talk) 01:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
There. I said it. Before doing your own research, be advised that, while tasteful (in a "Bettie Page" kind of way), the images are certainly NSFW. Viewer Discretion is advised! 2003:CA:3F18:46E4:F59C:3DE8:9C45:F01C ( talk) 11:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
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It's getting tiresome seeing Tags slapped onto articles with no explanations, especially when the tags themselves require just that. If someone chooses to rate this article, please indicate the reasoning, or leave it to someone else. Granted there is an article that explains the general idea of the ratings, but then it's a guessing game as to how it applies. And if the response is "It should be obvious", well, assume it's not. x 05:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted a change about the Animaniacs, not because I think it's wrong, but because I'd like to see something specific as to how this correction is more accurate. E.G. what episode was she mentioned in, and what year was that ep made? My understanding is that though Animaniacs was indeed beng produced before Superman:TAS started, that additional new eps were made afterwards. Any specifics please? x 13:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
This isn't about Animaniacs -- but the list of film credits omits one of her guest performances on Cheers. Dana Delany played a kindergarten teacher, a love interest of Sam Malone. It must have been in the 1980s but I don't know the name of the episode. But I definitely saw her as a guest star on the situation comedy Cheers. I don't know how to put this in the credits since I don't have the full information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.86.208 ( talk) 01:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC) Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I have gone over the filmography and used a reference to the Internet Movie Database (IMDb) (which had a much more thorough listing of all Dana's acting work) to update the filmography. The earlier Filmography omitted China Beach! so I put that in there, plus there were other films, voice-work, and TV credits that were added. So hopefully it is more up to date now. I figured out how to add a new line within a year. The key is making sure the "rowspan" number is right, and then playing with it to see if the grid comes out right. For example, if you're adding a film to 2002, it will say rowspan=2 if there are, say, two films she did that year; but if you're adding a new film, you have to make it say rowspan=3 because there will be three films. I copied and pasted the vertical line (there isn't one on my keyboard). There's a trial-and-error process and if you stick with it, it's not that hard to edit these grid boxes. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Though Lois Lane is a notable and iconic character in popular culture, I disagree that Dana is particularly noted for this voice over role, which is my understanding to be the intent of that section. x 22:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
“ | sorry but she's not really "noted" for that, though she's done it for a long time) | ” |
Frankly, this is a point-of-view statement (with no real evidence on the contrary) that was made. Also you seem to be contradicting yourself when you say that she isn't really "noted" for her voice-over work as Lois Lane, even though she's been doing it for a long time. TMC1982 8:56 p.m., 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Lois Lane is a fairly iconic character in popular culture (being an important part in the Superman, the most recognizable superhero of all-time, mythos). TMC1982 1:13 p.m., 1 May 2007 (UTC)
“ |
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001127/board/flat/37615917?p=1
Lois Lane by rpitoniak (Fri Mar 3 2006 23:28:56 )
i agree Dana would have been MUCH better than Kate Bosworth (who really can't act) but can we focus on getting the Wikipedia article right? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer ps Dana Delany rules.
Re: Lois Lane by I_AintFraidOfNoGhost (Thu Jun 8 2006 15:53:46 )
Re: Lois Lane by krnhorang85 (Tue Aug 1 2006 08:18:50 ) That would have been a good idea 20 years ago. I think her interpretation of Lois Lane works the best. Re: Lois Lane by jhoang85 (Fri Sep 15 2006 08:23:38 ) I also love her as the voice of lois lane. Dana Delany definitely has one of the sexiest voices I've ever heard. She's so beautiful, and I really hope that this new show "Kidnapped" will showcase her acting abilities and win her even more fans. Re: Lois Lane by patricia_chang_gorgeous (Fri Sep 29 2006 14:05:56 ) Dana Delany would've been a 500 times better Lois Lane than that poorest Kate Bosworth was |
” |
TMC1982 1:19 p.m., 1 May 2007 (UTC)
i agree with your assessment but we should stick to making a great wikipedia article Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this sentence:
Dana's great-grandfather John J. Delany founded the Coyne & Delany toilet valve company in 1879. citation needed
as it's not really about her personal or public life, it's more a trivia item about her family. Maybe a trivia section is needed? x ( talk) 03:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I can see your reasoning for removing the detail about her great-grandfather; if you're a guy, chances are you've seen the word "Delany" on toilets (I have); still, I think it's an interesting detail that perhaps should appear somewhere in this article. I like the idea of a trivia section. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information (from a trivia site) about the flush valve in case you want to include it: Toilet flush valves. The Delany Flush Valve is a diaphragm valve used on commercial toilets not equipped with water tanks. This type of valve and plumbing mechanism is used almost universally in commercial and public restroom facilities. The Coyne & Delany Company was founded in 1879 by John J. Delany and Thomas Coyne, and is located in Charlottesville, Virginia; they have a web site at www.coynedelany.com. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
One other thing about Coyne-Delany flush valves. Other sites featuring Dana Delany with biographies usually mention the flush valve connection. Yahoo movies described her as the granddaughter of the inventor of the flush valve (not great granddaughter). So I think we should consider taking a cue from other sites and including it -- plus, I think it's an interesting factoid. Check out yahoo movies: http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800025956/bio Tomwsulcer ( talk) 01:47, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I've removed this:
Delany, along with the cast, was nominated at the 14th Annual Screen Actor's Guild Award for Best Ensemble in a Comedy Series. Because she has received such critical and commercial acclaim for her role on the show, it is widely speculated that this role will earn Delany yet another Emmy this year.
It reads more like a news item than as enclopedic content, is a bit gossipy, refers to present and future tenses which is preferred to be avoided in WP articles, and some of it is POV. x ( talk) 17:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I think this was a good choice to remove this -- it does sound newsy, and it won't be important in a year or so from now. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I've removed this:
In 1990, she was featured on the hard to find China Beach soundtrack album "Music & Memories" singing the song "Far From Home."
It's kind of a digression where it was placed, maybe it could be added as trivia in a separate section? Also, make it less POV. x ( talk) 15:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
-- Cokeandpoprocks ( talk) 12:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree the photo should be changed but my issue isn't that the photo doesn't look like Dana, but rather that it's a side shot which doesn't fully reflect her beauty; better shot is a full-on face shot but where she's looking to the side. I think we should change the photo. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I'm thinking there should be more in this article about how Dana looks at film-making, television, success. Right now the article only lists her accomplishments (she starred in this, she did this movie, etc.) But the article could be improved (in my view) with her thoughts about being an actress, about technique; and this stuff is out there. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Great quote from People magazine article in April 1991: "Always get a good haircut," she (Dana) advises, and little wonder. When Delany tried out as nurse Colleen McMurphy on China Beach, she was shown the door. "They thought I wasn't pretty enough," she explains. Then director Paul (American Gigolo) Schrader asked her to cut her long tresses into a bob to play a terrorist in Patty Hearst. After the China Beach producers lost their first choice, they saw delovely Delany a new and flipped—as soon did much of America. Now Schrader is having Delany trimmed again, this time to play an ex-junkie in his Light Sleeper. Even if lightning doesn't strike twice, Delany is secure in her looks. "I know my weak points," she says. "But I've thought I was attractive since I was a girl because my father thought I was. He must have been kind. I was always cute, but I was a butterball." Source: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20063419,00.html
Marital/Family history and current status is missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.36.89.7 ( talk) 17:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree the marital family history stuff is interesting and perhaps should be in there. I don't think she has yet married, but she had interesting relationships with famous people (possibly Treat Williams, Henry Czerny, others), and this is the kind of stuff (unfortunately) that people are interested in. If memory is right, I think her parents divorced when she was, perhaps, 18, and did this have any influence on her life? Is this the kind of stuff that typically appears in biographies of actors -- I think it is. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Information from a website (not necessarily a good source) about Dana's early family life: Dana Welles Delany was born on March 13, 1956. She was raised in Stamford, Connecticut and Charlottesville, Virginia. She was born in New York, New York. Dana was born in Manhattan, and spent most of her childhood living in Stamford. Her parents divorced when Dana was 16, after which she moved to Charlottesville with her father and siblings. Dana has one sister (an interior designer) and one brother (an attorney). Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Here's more information from the source uk.askmen.com --> Although Dana has had several long-term relationships -- and a reportedly not so long-term one with Treat Williams -- she remains unattached. "I honestly haven't found the right guy," she explains. Dana has come to realize that her career isn't everything, since "I've reached a place with my work where I'm ready to concentrate more on life." Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information from Movietome about Dana's thinking about marriage -- Dana is very close to her sister. She said on The View (December of 2007) that her sister's 30 year marriage has broken up and she was taking her on holiday for the 2007 Christmas. When she appeared on The View in December of 2007, Dana admitted that getting married and having children has never been a priority for her. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
More information from Movietome to consider adding to the article (about Dana commenting on her personal life): Dana: I like people who are still actively creating in their life, who aren't set, I don't feel like I'm set. And I don't have any baggage, for better or worse. I don't have any plants or pets or kids. I can lock the door and go. I need to be with somebody for whom that's okay. Dana: Marriage has never been a big deal for me, but I think I'm ready now. Before, I wanted adventures. I feel like, in some ways, I was smarter than anybody. I got to have all the fun in the world, to experience a lot of people and figure out what I really like. I got to evolve. Now I know what makes me happy Dana: I've been dating younger men since my 20s, When I was 29, I dated someone 21… younger men are just more fun. I like their energy. I've always been kind of young for my age. Dana: Television is more of a business. You can't take as many risks, because there's so many channels now, and the advertising's dropping. Dana: I have faith in my imperfections! Dana (on joining the cast of "Desperate Housewives"): It was a little bit like trying to board a train that’s left the station. But I’ve been around a long time, and I’ve never worked on a show that’s run so smoothly. All the kinks are worked out. Whatever rumors there were in the past, the actresses have worked it all out. Dana (on Christoper Reeve): Chris was an old friend of mine from my early days in New York. There's something about him in that role (Superman) that was just meant to be. He never shined more (as an actor) than when he was playing that part. And certainly after the accident, he rose to the integrity of that role. I think he surprised all of us (with) how amazing he was. He's one of those guys you look at and go 'there but for the grace of G-d'; I don't know that I could have done the same in his situation. Dana: In Europe the parents are included as with children. All three generations are together. I'm thinking of Italy. You go out on a Sunday afternoon and the whole family is there. Dana: I'm the worst rider. I'm a terrible rider. Me and horses are not a good mix. For some reason, people are always trying to get me on a horse in a movie. Dana: (talking about crying on camera) Once I hit my 40's, I found it very, very easy to cry. There is something about hitting midlife. It's not really a sign of sadness when I cry. I'm just grateful to be alive. Dana: We all know that television is better for women as they get into their 40s. You could be more three-dimensional, not just the wife or the mother. Dana: I've reached a place with my work where I'm ready to concentrate more on life. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:55, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Great quotes for possible consideration about putting it in the article. The source was Movietome. Here they go: Dana: I love being on stage or in front of the camera. My work brings me a lot of joy. It helps me figure out who I am. I'm really lucky that I get to make a living at acting. Dana: I think I would make a good spy. I can sort of be a chameleon. People don't notice me very easily. I never get recognized. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think this stuff is interesting and helps round out the article, gives the article life, but I don't think we should focus too much on it. I'm thinking one line in the personal section listing some of the boyfriends (without dates) and listing yahoo as the source. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 01:52, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update: my current thinking is we should leave all the boyfriend stuff OUT (based on sensible advice from Tabercil and Hullaballoo Wolfowitz) because as they point out, the sources which provide this information are shaky, so the information may be wrong, and even while I find it is interesting, we have to really only include neutral POV which is relevant and based on good sources. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
In the "early work" section, there was no information about her appearances on TV soap operas or possibly early Broadway work -- rather, after college, it jumps right into 1988 (10 years later) with her first big big break -- getting the role on "China Beach". I think there should be more information about how she learned how to act (did she take lessons with Stanislavski) and how she made the transition to television in Hollywood. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 03:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Here's source material from a trivia site about her early years as an actress: she got a theatrical degree in Wesleyan University graduating 1978. She starred in two daytime soap operas: "As the World Turns" and "Love of Life". Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I was wondering what to do when some of the movies listed appear in red. This means as we know that the movie (for example, Baby For Sale) doesn't have a Wikipedia page. Should we (1) leave the movie there in red with the hope that somebody in future might create a Wikipedia page for this movie or (2) remove the brackets (and leave the single-quote mark symbols) so that the name of the movie appears in italics, but not in blue (or red). If somebody knows what to do here, please advise. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update -- excellent editor ShelfSkewed said how to handle Redlinks is a matter of opinion, but leans towards leaving it in since it indicates a possible future article that future wikipedia editors may wish to write. So I am siding with ShelfSkewed about this unless I get more information. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed how Eva Longoria had an awards and nominations section and Dana didn't, so I copied Longoria's and updated it with Emmy, Golden Globe and Q award information. I bet there are other awards Dana has won. Does anybody know what they are? If so, please add them. It's a little tricky to modify the box, but just remember to copy a whole chunk, beginning with the first vertical line to the left, and which ends with a vertical line followed by a minus sign. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Wondering if awards like in 1998, Wesleyan presented Dana with a Distinguished Alumni Award in recognition for her professional accomplishments. Should this be included with awards like Emmys and Golden Globes? Probably not, but wondering if we should put it in elsewhere? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
There are probably other awards -- Prism awards, Screen Actors Guild awards (SAG) that need to be researched, and included. I haven't had time to do this yet. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed Marcia Cross has an "additional achievements" section with things like being one of the most beautiful people in a certain year, a magazine naming her "woman of the year, etc. I think Dana needs one too. So I lifted the format from Marcia Cross's page (I hope she won't be cross about this -- sorry very bad pun) and we should put stuff about Dana in there, plus have a note at the bottom about the references. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
There are CERTAINLY other notable achievements that can be put in here. I haven't yet fully researched them. But things like magazine endorsements. I wonder if there's any database which tracks how often stars are featured on the covers of prominent magazines? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update: this section has been removed since there was only one line. But if more awards and nominations are found by future researchers, and you want to put it back in, then consider doing this. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think the article is getting much better, the information is solid with excellent references, but the subcategories are somewhat off. There's a section called "Voice work" which interrupts the early career and later career stuff (but I agree with editors who think Dana's voice work is important and should be emphasized, although I don't think it should be included as a major section, but rather mixed into the chronological sections). But it's like the format switches gears mid-stream (sorry about mixing metaphors) from chronology to type of work (ie voice), and I hope we could get something which is more logically consistent, as well as helping readers find information that they need quickly. And I think all of it could be better organized somehow. I think most biographies have a chronological format, from early to current, and this is the best choice. I'm wondering: what categories can we have which keeps the chronological format while emphasizing the voice work? I've been researching this actress for some time now and my sense is that she's not a lightweight pretty face type actress but a serious, intense heavy-duty one who can master tough roles, a powerhouse who loves acting but sometimes gets snared in frivolous projects, and the consistent thing about her career is: a love of acting. That's what she loves. And I don't think things like friendships or causes should have their own section but rather should be included in the chronology when they're relevant and appropriate. But here's my sense of her career goes something like this --
I. early life (birth, schooling)
II. New York City -- breaking into the business
Soap operas Broadway (critical reviews) Off-Broadway (critical attention) Key friendships and connections (Christopher Reeve, for example)
III. Early Hollywood years (TV guest starring spots, China Beach) -- establishing herself as a major actress
TV guest starring spots (showcasing her talent) China Beach (should include: how did she get this role? should get its own paragraph I think, mentioning Emmys plus critical attention) Movies TV movies Voice work (The Batman/Superman, Lois Lane, fan reactions, critical acclaim -- Why Dana = major voice talent) Relationships (there are dates so we could put this in where appropriate)
IV. Later Hollywood years -- pursuing acting
More TV work (sitcoms that didn't get off the ground, critical reviews, etc) Other projects (narrating, Vietnam nurses, audio books) Guest spots on talk shows Dana-as-a-celebrity (being a presenter in awards shows, talk show appearances, interactions with fans) Causes (scleroderma, other causes) Relationships/personal
V. Filmography
VI. Awards
VII. Notable achievements
VIII. References
So, my question to other editors is: do you like this organizational scheme? Or can we think of something better? I'm interested in getting feedback from excellent wikipedia editors such as yourself. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 14:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Since you, Tomwsulcer, seem to be using this article as a learning experience, I thought I'd just pick a few nits for you by suggesting some small corrections. And maybe you'll learn a bit more as you go...
These, along with Tabercil's suggestions, should make for a pretty solid article. Oh, and if you need a quote from her interview in the August '94 issue of Playboy, let me know. The issue is in my collection. Dismas| (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I've been researching newspapers and reputable sources for good critical commentary. It's always positive. I have yet to come across a critic who said Dana really screwed up a role but I keep searching (and if I find it, I'll put that in, because I'm trying to be balanced and fair). Note: one unofficial critic described DD as "seriously bad" in Tombstone but I didn't think this reviewer was associated with a reputable newspaper or magazine. What happens is this: Dana tends to go for complex, dark, multi-faceted roles with good writing, but these TV shows don't hit the mass market -- the shows are liked by critics, but the public can't follow them, and they get canned. Or, the show screws up, or the director, or any number of factors screw things up. Many projects she's worked on have not panned out, but this is how the business works I suppose (I don't think it's her fault). But China Beach was one of the critically-acclaimed TV shows which tried to find an audience -- it lasted for 3 years surprisingly -- and then went down the tubes (perhaps by bad choices by the producers in the third year?) Ditto, Pasadena -- great TV show, too intellectual for the public, but Dana was great in it. Then, she'll appear in mass market fodder like Desperate Housewives which tends to be dumbed down (but Dana still does a good job of acting). But this stuff gets her lots of attention and helps her keep acting -- and that I think is the dominant principle at work -- she loves acting -- that's it -- I don't think she's in it for the celebrity or money or fame -- rather, she loves the process of acting, and she's VERY good at it, not just a pretty face. What do other editors think about this? And does this article convey this? I think there was one TV show where I thought she was miscast -- something about her playing an FBI agent -- I remember seeing it myself back in the 1980s and thinking "hey, she's not an FBI agent", but I can't find critical commentary on this. But I'm looking for more interview like stuff in which she describes her thoughts about acting, celebrity, show business, and such, and I think this will help improve the article. Right now, I'm doing Google searches within a newspaper's site (so hopefully whatever I find will have a reputable source) and then see if any of it is worth putting in the article. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update on critical commentary and general work on the article: I continued searching for negative reviews about Dana's performance, from established critics (newspapers, TV channels, other reputable sources) but really haven't found any. I found some great interviews in which she speaks openly about her life, acting. This stuff is interesting to me, and I interspersed some of her comments in the article so it makes it more lively, more well-rounded, like Dana's take on playing Katherine Mayfair. I added about how she turned down the role of Carrie in Sex and the City, supported by two references. Overall I think the article is getting stronger, more specific, more interesting but I still am not totally happy with the organizational format and I'd love to see more pictures. I wonder how to get information about her theater work at Wesleyan University? She must have done some interesting stuff there. Plus, there is information about her parents' rather tough divorce -- quotes from Dana herself about this -- and how it may have impacted her views on marriage; I think this stuff is interesting but I'm wondering whether the sources are strong enough to justify inclusion into the article. I'm wondering what other editors such as the illustrious Tabercil and the illustrious Dismas think about this. Also, if there's great information from a Playboy article (Tabercil said this or Dismas, I can't remember) -- if I can get this, I'll put stuff in if you like. Also, I'm noticing inconsistencies in the article, like sometimes a show is properly listed with italics and in color, sometimes it isn't. Also, I think we should consider putting the stuff about the Coyne-Delany flush valve back in (if editors agree?) because I think it's an interesting factoid; Dana has commented herself in interviews about the valve, and it positions her somewhat in a historical context within US history, that is, she comes from a somewhat-established entrepreneurial business family. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 18:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Editors might notice that sometimes there are three or four references following a line. I put in lots of references because I thought this was the only way to get the Wikibots to remove the tag which complained about lack of references -- and the tag or flag stayed there (and I kept adding references) until I finally realized that I, myself, could remove the tag (which I did). Not one of my more brilliant moments, sorry. The excellent Tabercil suggested that some references can be removed, so other editors might want to do this, hopefully keeping the BEST references, and when there's a controversial quote, or something which may be disputed (especially like DD's decisions to turn down big roles) I think it's better to leave more references in, to back up what the article is about. But the excellent Tabercil suggests references may not be needed when it's just a line about "Delany made such and such a movie in 1991". My bias is to kind of reference everything but I'm probably overdoing things. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 13:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Clicking on "Choices of the Heart" leads to the incorrect 1983 "Choices of the Heart" movie, not the 1995 "Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story". There is a Wikipedia page for the 1983 movie but none for the 1995 movie. Not sure what to do here -- is it worth creating a wikipedia page for the 1995 movie? Or remove the brackets around the words "choices of the heart" in the DD article? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 13:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I think there are better pictures of Dana available -- this side shot is okay but I'm wondering if people think we can't find a better picture. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
About an alternative picture: I think the picture of Dana as Katherine Mayfair is much more accurate than the current picture. Plus there are probably no copyright issues since the picture is already working for the "Katherine Mayfair" wikipedia page. I think we should switch the picture but I would prefer if other editors make this decision. Plus, I'm not that familiar with how to get the technical stuff right. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I copied information from the Katherine Mayfair page:
Note: removed extra stuff from Katherine Mayfair photo Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:30, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
I noticed on Eva Longoria's page there are TWO pictures -- so why can't we have two pictures of Dana? And I can copy the one from the Katherine Mayfair wikipedia article and use the whole thing becuase it's relevant and formatted and it will make the whole article more visually appealing. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 20:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Note: I added pictures from the Wikimedia Commons (so no copyright problems) because the whole thing has expanded (with longer filmography, references, notable achievements) and it looks boring without something visual on there. So now there are more pictures of Dana so it's doesn't look like a market research report. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 22:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update on pictures: as I write, there are three working pictures of Dana in the article, down from four (one picture of her as Katherine Mayfair got yanked by the Tabercil because of some copyright problems I was unaware of -- so good that we're not doing anything wrong here). Still, I think pictures improve the look of this article and I think if we can get more pictures in it, the article will be more fun to look at (and hopefully to read too). So if other editors can help here with how to get them, put them in, without violating copyright stuff, please go ahead. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Noticed great pictures from Tabercil. Great! Makes the article look SO much better! Tomwsulcer ( talk) 02:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Hope this helps. x ( talk) 14:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
General problem with Dana Delany pictures is pictures don't show her acting but are posed after-event celebrity shots or getting awards. There are only eight (8) shots of DD on the Commons. And I think the posed shots are misleading because DD's career isn't about celebrity or awards but acting. Removed address/phone of DD's talent agency. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 00:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
with a simple request: please UPLOAD pictures of Dana acting in various roles to Wikipedia's Commons site at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and make sure to fill out the copyright permissions and tags and descriptors so we can improve her article. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Wondering if anybody minds. I tend to type too much and want to cut out much of my former junk. If nobody objects, I'll whittle down my OWN (nobody else's) stuff so this talk page doesn't get too long. Okay? Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
A disclaimer: Actually I've done a lot of editing of this article in the past, but I've seen a large amount of recent edits being done, which might fail the Stability requirement as mentioned in the
Wikipedia:Good article nominations (even if not specifically a result of an edit war).
A lot of these edits, though copious in information and probably accurate, don't seem fit the standards that I understand to be applicable to Wiki articles, or fitting the Wikipedia:Good article criteria, mainly relating to keeping it to Broad Coverage. A lot of quotes and individual remarks have been added, that seem excessive and bring in some POV concerns as well, making it read more like a magazine article than an encyclopedic one.
This article may need some clean up before being passed. x ( talk) 15:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
A disclaimer: I've done considerable editing recently on the Dana Delany article, but wanted to add my two cents. I kind of agree that the article has become somewhat long, but I think this could be solved by better organization -- perhaps a paragraph or two summarizing the major events of her theatrical career, specifically the China Beach stuff and the Desperate Housewives stuff, like near the top (under the first paragraph). Or maybe an expanded first paragraph? I think most readers would only be interested in these two things (ie CB and DH). But, for the few readers who are interested in more detailed information, I recommend keeping the critics' comments in, although perhaps the list of films and projects she's worked on could be shortened. The filmography (I think) is great -- I combined stuff from numerous sites as well as put new stuff in, and meticulously checked this over. I bet Wikipedia has the MOST AUTHORITATIVE FILMOGRAPHY of DD and this will help Wikipedia's reputation I hope (although I'll try to keep it updated as DD does new stuff.) I hunted extensively for both positive and negative criticism of her work -- the only negative stuff I found was a blogger's comment that DD was lousy in something (and blogger = flaky source as you know); in addition, critic Terrence Rafferty once described one of her performances as "uninteresting", but I didn't know what that meant, and didn't know how to include it. DD is a talented actress who rarely screws up a role -- if you hunt through the web for negative stuff, it's very hard to find. Many of the films she was in sucked -- I put that info in, too, like when a film got mixed to negative reviews (Housesitter was lackluster in my personal opinion too). And my personal opinion was that she sucked in some TV role I saw her in (casting problem probably) and I can't remember the name of the show -- it was in the early 90s I think -- but that's my personal opinion, not printable. My biggest problem with the DD article so far is that the pictures are boring -- just DD accepting awards like at Emmys -- I'd like to see pictures of DD starring in actual productions -- but even though I tried writing and phoning her agents, requesting better pictures, nothing seems to happen about getting better pictures. My personal bias is to include more pictures since I think too much text is a turnoff. And, I don't think the "voice talent" stuff is that important, but there are users who relate to this stuff, and I don't want to get into an edit war with them about this detail. But generally I'm going to only watch the DD page and not do anything major for a long while since I'm doing stuff on BMC Software and Statistics New Zealand and other stuff I know nothing about. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 17:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
This GA review seems to be orphaned, and a bit old (GA reviews should not take longer than 2-3 weeks). To sum the article up against the six GA criteria, I don't think this passes at the present time. Here's the summary:
I know there are some editors who love DD's voice-work and relate to it; but I don't think "Work on Lois Lane" deserves its own sub-subsection -- if we add one sub-subsection, and it's the only one, it looks odd -- possibly we'll have to add more sub-subsections (which I advise against since it doesn't add more information and I don't think it will help readers find stuff). I advise removing the "Work on Lois Lane" header. I'm a writer. Please trust my thinking on this. My bias is towards making this article better, hopefully a "good article", maybe someday a "featured article". If we can make it a featured article, then possibly more readers will look at it. If the interest of other editors is helping DD gain more exposure, and tell more readers about the Lois Lane stuff, then things like editing for flow will help. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Love the voice work in the header section. Shows how petty and evil wikipedia editors can be. Great job! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.213.131.190 ( talk) 17:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Generally, I think we have limited choices here about how to organize this article -- chronological or by type of work (TV, movies, stage, voice). The format now is mostly chronological (with subsections -- 1980s, 1990s, 2000s etc), except the voice work is somewhat out of sequence chronologically. So, some of the voice work from the early 1990s, as well as later 2000s, is in a clump around the later 1990s -- somewhat out of sequence; in addition, her cause-related work is in a clump of its own at the bottom. But this structure is similar to what many other celebrities have, probably helpful for readers, I think, to find information they're seeking quickly. I don't think there are any great organizational alternatives here. I lean towards the chronological structure because it makes it possible to put in interesting stuff like DD's initial turn-down of her D.Housewives role, or her initial attempts at the China Beach role. I tried organizing it by type of project, but then it didn't look right to my eyes. And I don't think acting on a stage is that different from acting on TV (that is, enough to merit separating the two). What I'm saying is -- let's stick with one structure (I favor chronological). Further, another benefit of the chronological structure is that it makes it easy for future editors to add new stuff as DD does new projects -- they put it at the bottom. If an editor wants to totally rewrite the DD article by type of project, this is a lot of work, but I'll consider serious changes, but to do this well one would have to be a fairly good writer I think; ,I think we should stick with the chronological structure that we've got. The exception is if a future editor feels the whole article is too long, and wants to cut substantial portions of it, then considerations of topic-related organization might be feasible. Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I am quite disappointed that you failed to mention in Dana Delany's bio that she appeared as Josephine Marcus in the movie "TOMBSTONE" with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.154.174 ( talk) 17:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
I've included these two in a sentence. But couldn't provide proper reference. Could anyone please help me? ANUbOMB ( talk) 08:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
She starred in Tombstone. Missing from the 90s. filmography — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.176.160.26 ( talk) 01:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
There. I said it. Before doing your own research, be advised that, while tasteful (in a "Bettie Page" kind of way), the images are certainly NSFW. Viewer Discretion is advised! 2003:CA:3F18:46E4:F59C:3DE8:9C45:F01C ( talk) 11:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)