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Why is the time for "czech lands" on "since the 18th Century?" Czechs and Moravians had occupied the area before 900AD.
psnack@seznam.cz
http://svacina.com/czechia/czechia.html
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -
GTBacchus(
talk) 03:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Czech lands → Lands of the Bohemian Crown —(Discuss)— These lands are primarily of historical interest, therefore the term Bohemia is preferred. It also includes all of Silesia which never was a Czech land. An article "Czech lands" might be useful too, but there should be an article on the "Lands of the Bohemian crown", which is currently a redirect to this article. Str1977 (smile back) 13:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
This is a formal copy of the proposal, which in fact I oppose.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Survey
Oppose Lands of the Bohemian Crown would be wider, including, at a minimum, all of Silesia; arguably all of Austria down to the head of the Adriatic. Another article on the subject would be welcome.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Czech lands" is the common term. "Lands of the Bohemian crown" may be changed from a redirect into a separate article. --
Mwalcoff 23:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Discussion
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
You are invited to join
Wikipedia:Czech Wikipedian's notice board! The Czech notice board can be used for discussions on Czech-related topics; to plan your Czech-related projects; and ask for, or offer assistance for Czech-related subjects. Editors are encouraged to sign their nickname on the list of active participators. --
Thus Spake Anittas 02:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Capitalization
I think, the capitalization used is wrong, it should be "Czech Lands" not "Czech lands". --
Jirka6 (
talk) 00:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)reply
the capitalisation is correct.
Eleni Kaltsi (
talk) 07:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Can someone more familiar with the term "Czech lands" and its usage clarify whether it's a generic term (as in "British territory" or "German wilderness"), or a proper noun / place name (as in "United States" or "West Germany")? It's not clear from the article which is the case. In my opinion, whether the L in "lands" should be capitalized depends on which of these it is.
Note also that the editor who objected to capitalizing the L above was later banned for being a sockpuppet.
Stephen Hui (
talk) 21:19, 26 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Czech lands or Bohemian lands
Czech lands or Bohemian lands ?? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.113.58.8 (
talk) 11:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Czech lands or Bohemian lands or Lands of the Crown of Bohemia or Sudeten lands ? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.113.47.139 (
talk) 10:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)reply
„The Sudetenland“ was just a smaller part of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia. I wouldn't be afraid of „Czech lands“, although there have been a bigger German minority. The Germans were invited by Czech kings. --
Zik2 (
talk) 23:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)reply
The word 'Czech' does not automatically imply 'ethnic Czech' (meaning Slavic Czech). The adjective 'Czech' can be used geographically or ethnically. There is no distinction between 'Czech' and 'Bohemian' in the Czech language and this influences the usage in English as well (that the word 'Bohemian' has two meanings is a factor too). For example, it is common to say 'Czech German' for the people of German origin living in Czech Lands. To stress that a Czech is of Slavic origin (although the people intermingled for centuries so it is kind of fuzzy) one can say 'ethnic-Czech'. The usage in German language is different. --
Jirka6 (
talk) 01:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Ahm, actually it isn't common to say 'Czech German' in German. Neither 'Deutschtscheche' nor 'Tschechendeutscher' makes an awful lot of sense. Much more common was, and still is, 'Deutschböhme', meaning a German from Bohemia (and Moravia). 'Czech German' in German denotes a assimilated German. In German the difference between Bohemian and Czech lands is huge, since the latter excludes the Germans. This was, btw., one of the major issues between Czechs and Germans in the beginning of the 20th century.
But this is the English Wikipedia, and neither the Czech nor the German viewpoint is important. A Google book search clearly favors Czech lands.
Karasek (
talk) 13:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes you called us Böhmisches Volk. But after the rise of nationalism you started to call us Tschechen too negate the Czech history of this land.(
85.0.2.33 (
talk) 18:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC))reply
Quite right. Even today they say: Das sind Böhmische Dörfer für mich, meaning that's completely unknown to me,
or Das sind Böhmische Wörter für mich, meaning I do not understand what you are saying.--
Posp68 (
talk) 12:53, 29 July 2018 (UTC)reply
I fully agree. Yes, in German, there is a big difference between 'Boemisch' (related to the place) and 'Tschechisch' (related to the ethical group). Czech language does not have this distinction. And modern English (usually) does not make it either (probably because of the other, more frequent, meaning of Bohemian). (I see now that the order of sentences in my previous post suggested that the example was related to German. It was not supposed to be. I moved the note about German at the end to make it clearer.). --
Jirka6 (
talk) 16:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Just call it Czechia and be done with it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.127.64.22 (
talk) 20:39, 23 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Requested move 15 November 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose. I think the current title is the best for this topic. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Why do you think so? 'Czech lands' should be a disambiguation page, it may refer to the all lands of the Bohemian Crown or only to the regions of the Czech Republic.
Caenus (
talk) 19:32, 16 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Not all lands of the Bohemian Crown can be described as Czech lands. (Could we describe Croatia, Bosnia or Romania as "Hungarian lands"? Obviously not, although they or their territory were
Lands of the Hungarian Crown.)
Borsoka (
talk) 01:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Proposed title is more recognisable.
Vpab15 (
talk) 22:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Proposal which does not address how multiple articles and categories with Czech lands in title would be solved. Eg. "Historians of the Czech lands" a) Historians of historical regions of the Czech Republic b) Historians of the Czech Republic. Both bad. "Czech lands under Habsburg rule", "Prehistory of the Czech lands"... There's more reservations but let us start with this... Either it should be complex proposal or do not bother at all.
Chrz (
talk) 23:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Czech lands is a term used in multiple article and category titles, so it deserves main article with the name Czech lands.
Chrz (
talk) 08:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Czech Republic, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
Czech Republic on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Czech RepublicWikipedia:WikiProject Czech RepublicTemplate:WikiProject Czech RepublicCzech Republic articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
geography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GeographyWikipedia:WikiProject GeographyTemplate:WikiProject Geographygeography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
Why is the time for "czech lands" on "since the 18th Century?" Czechs and Moravians had occupied the area before 900AD.
psnack@seznam.cz
http://svacina.com/czechia/czechia.html
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -
GTBacchus(
talk) 03:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Czech lands → Lands of the Bohemian Crown —(Discuss)— These lands are primarily of historical interest, therefore the term Bohemia is preferred. It also includes all of Silesia which never was a Czech land. An article "Czech lands" might be useful too, but there should be an article on the "Lands of the Bohemian crown", which is currently a redirect to this article. Str1977 (smile back) 13:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
This is a formal copy of the proposal, which in fact I oppose.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Survey
Oppose Lands of the Bohemian Crown would be wider, including, at a minimum, all of Silesia; arguably all of Austria down to the head of the Adriatic. Another article on the subject would be welcome.
SeptentrionalisPMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Czech lands" is the common term. "Lands of the Bohemian crown" may be changed from a redirect into a separate article. --
Mwalcoff 23:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Discussion
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
You are invited to join
Wikipedia:Czech Wikipedian's notice board! The Czech notice board can be used for discussions on Czech-related topics; to plan your Czech-related projects; and ask for, or offer assistance for Czech-related subjects. Editors are encouraged to sign their nickname on the list of active participators. --
Thus Spake Anittas 02:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Capitalization
I think, the capitalization used is wrong, it should be "Czech Lands" not "Czech lands". --
Jirka6 (
talk) 00:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)reply
the capitalisation is correct.
Eleni Kaltsi (
talk) 07:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Can someone more familiar with the term "Czech lands" and its usage clarify whether it's a generic term (as in "British territory" or "German wilderness"), or a proper noun / place name (as in "United States" or "West Germany")? It's not clear from the article which is the case. In my opinion, whether the L in "lands" should be capitalized depends on which of these it is.
Note also that the editor who objected to capitalizing the L above was later banned for being a sockpuppet.
Stephen Hui (
talk) 21:19, 26 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Czech lands or Bohemian lands
Czech lands or Bohemian lands ?? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.113.58.8 (
talk) 11:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Czech lands or Bohemian lands or Lands of the Crown of Bohemia or Sudeten lands ? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.113.47.139 (
talk) 10:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)reply
„The Sudetenland“ was just a smaller part of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia. I wouldn't be afraid of „Czech lands“, although there have been a bigger German minority. The Germans were invited by Czech kings. --
Zik2 (
talk) 23:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)reply
The word 'Czech' does not automatically imply 'ethnic Czech' (meaning Slavic Czech). The adjective 'Czech' can be used geographically or ethnically. There is no distinction between 'Czech' and 'Bohemian' in the Czech language and this influences the usage in English as well (that the word 'Bohemian' has two meanings is a factor too). For example, it is common to say 'Czech German' for the people of German origin living in Czech Lands. To stress that a Czech is of Slavic origin (although the people intermingled for centuries so it is kind of fuzzy) one can say 'ethnic-Czech'. The usage in German language is different. --
Jirka6 (
talk) 01:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Ahm, actually it isn't common to say 'Czech German' in German. Neither 'Deutschtscheche' nor 'Tschechendeutscher' makes an awful lot of sense. Much more common was, and still is, 'Deutschböhme', meaning a German from Bohemia (and Moravia). 'Czech German' in German denotes a assimilated German. In German the difference between Bohemian and Czech lands is huge, since the latter excludes the Germans. This was, btw., one of the major issues between Czechs and Germans in the beginning of the 20th century.
But this is the English Wikipedia, and neither the Czech nor the German viewpoint is important. A Google book search clearly favors Czech lands.
Karasek (
talk) 13:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes you called us Böhmisches Volk. But after the rise of nationalism you started to call us Tschechen too negate the Czech history of this land.(
85.0.2.33 (
talk) 18:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC))reply
Quite right. Even today they say: Das sind Böhmische Dörfer für mich, meaning that's completely unknown to me,
or Das sind Böhmische Wörter für mich, meaning I do not understand what you are saying.--
Posp68 (
talk) 12:53, 29 July 2018 (UTC)reply
I fully agree. Yes, in German, there is a big difference between 'Boemisch' (related to the place) and 'Tschechisch' (related to the ethical group). Czech language does not have this distinction. And modern English (usually) does not make it either (probably because of the other, more frequent, meaning of Bohemian). (I see now that the order of sentences in my previous post suggested that the example was related to German. It was not supposed to be. I moved the note about German at the end to make it clearer.). --
Jirka6 (
talk) 16:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Just call it Czechia and be done with it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.127.64.22 (
talk) 20:39, 23 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Requested move 15 November 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose. I think the current title is the best for this topic. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Why do you think so? 'Czech lands' should be a disambiguation page, it may refer to the all lands of the Bohemian Crown or only to the regions of the Czech Republic.
Caenus (
talk) 19:32, 16 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Not all lands of the Bohemian Crown can be described as Czech lands. (Could we describe Croatia, Bosnia or Romania as "Hungarian lands"? Obviously not, although they or their territory were
Lands of the Hungarian Crown.)
Borsoka (
talk) 01:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Proposed title is more recognisable.
Vpab15 (
talk) 22:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Proposal which does not address how multiple articles and categories with Czech lands in title would be solved. Eg. "Historians of the Czech lands" a) Historians of historical regions of the Czech Republic b) Historians of the Czech Republic. Both bad. "Czech lands under Habsburg rule", "Prehistory of the Czech lands"... There's more reservations but let us start with this... Either it should be complex proposal or do not bother at all.
Chrz (
talk) 23:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Czech lands is a term used in multiple article and category titles, so it deserves main article with the name Czech lands.
Chrz (
talk) 08:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.