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Deleted the link ** Proklos' summary of the Epic Cycle translated by Gregory Nagy
Could not retrieve it from internet archives
- Corrected and reinstated on 28 September, but I forgot to mention that here at that time. Oops. Petrouchka 02:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- Kypria → Cypria —( Discuss)— English usage is Cypria. — 16:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC) Septentrionalis
Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support as nom 22:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC) Septentrionalis
- Support The most common form in English is Cypria, as in the Oxford Classical Dictionary, s.v. "Epic Cycle". Per WP:GREEK, Cypria is also the preferred transliteration on WP. (n.b. I personally prefer Kypria, but no one has made me King of Greek Transliteration yet.) --Akhilleus ( talk) 16:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support as Akhilleus. Andrew Dalby 18:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support. Jonathunder 23:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Abstain, as the person who created the article and wrote most of what's still in it. While I strongly oppose the current policy on rendering of Greek names, I have registered that opinion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Greek). (It may be worth pointing out that all articles on Greek topics need redirect pages anyway; that's an argument that I've seen adduced against changing the policy, but it cuts both ways.) I would add that the Aithiopis article is in an identical situation, so if this matters enough to anyone they might want to consider that too. Petrouchka 02:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support per WP:GREEK.-- Aldux 21:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
- Add any additional comments
I don't want to seem irritating, but shouldn't this have been discussed first with User:Petrouchka, the author of the article and of several other articles on the lesser works of the Trojan Cycle? It would be a pity if such a good editor took offence for such a small question.-- Aldux 23:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Feel free to do so; the move will require admin assistance, so it should go to
WP:RM even if agreed privately.
Septentrionalis 23:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Aldux alerted me. I wasn't intending to comment but I've now posted my view above.
Petrouchka 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'll just add that I voted to "support" only for consistency with current practice on Wikipedia. I strongly agree with Petrouchka on the wider issue.
Andrew Dalby 09:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Then I think you would have to establish wide enough consensus to alter WP:NAME. which holds that Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists. The general audience does not understand these hypercorrect forms; Hellenists should not need them. Septentrionalis 18:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'll just add that I voted to "support" only for consistency with current practice on Wikipedia. I strongly agree with Petrouchka on the wider issue.
Andrew Dalby 09:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Aldux alerted me. I wasn't intending to comment but I've now posted my view above.
Petrouchka 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The change in the assessment of Cypria, exhibited in Aristotle and then influenced by Aristotle's example, was a Hellenistic downgrading. I can't enter this in the article because it will be challenged as "original research" and I have no standard history of Greek literature here. Anyone interested in this point? The present passive of non-attribution makes no distinctions and contains little information. -- Wetman 19:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The newly expanded article reads very well to me. I just want to raise one minor problem: the detail in footnote 1 actually doesn't support any dating of the fixed text of Cypria as known in classical times -- because (as the article goes on to say, and as I would agree) the main stories were in all likelihood fixed (part of a Faktkanon maybe) earlier than the text. Thus the Judgement of Paris could quite well have been painted before the text as known in classical times was fixed. And rew D alby 16:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Note 1 is used to support the statement of the date the composition of Cypria is placed at. The link in this note is now broken. As it is a fairly important point, and also considering the fact that this note is repeated as a reference in the Literature section of Cyprus, could someone please update the link with a working one or replace the note with a proper literature citation? AstarothCY ( talk) 10:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I added the following caveat: "What follows embeds reports of known content of the Cypria in a retelling of the known events leading up to the anger of Achilles.".
A better approach would be to report the episodes that are actually known to have been in the Cypria. The fully-detailed lead-up to the Trojan War is reported elsewhere.-- Wetman ( talk) 17:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
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Deleted the link ** Proklos' summary of the Epic Cycle translated by Gregory Nagy
Could not retrieve it from internet archives
- Corrected and reinstated on 28 September, but I forgot to mention that here at that time. Oops. Petrouchka 02:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- Kypria → Cypria —( Discuss)— English usage is Cypria. — 16:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC) Septentrionalis
Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support as nom 22:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC) Septentrionalis
- Support The most common form in English is Cypria, as in the Oxford Classical Dictionary, s.v. "Epic Cycle". Per WP:GREEK, Cypria is also the preferred transliteration on WP. (n.b. I personally prefer Kypria, but no one has made me King of Greek Transliteration yet.) --Akhilleus ( talk) 16:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support as Akhilleus. Andrew Dalby 18:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support. Jonathunder 23:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Abstain, as the person who created the article and wrote most of what's still in it. While I strongly oppose the current policy on rendering of Greek names, I have registered that opinion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Greek). (It may be worth pointing out that all articles on Greek topics need redirect pages anyway; that's an argument that I've seen adduced against changing the policy, but it cuts both ways.) I would add that the Aithiopis article is in an identical situation, so if this matters enough to anyone they might want to consider that too. Petrouchka 02:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support per WP:GREEK.-- Aldux 21:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
- Add any additional comments
I don't want to seem irritating, but shouldn't this have been discussed first with User:Petrouchka, the author of the article and of several other articles on the lesser works of the Trojan Cycle? It would be a pity if such a good editor took offence for such a small question.-- Aldux 23:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Feel free to do so; the move will require admin assistance, so it should go to
WP:RM even if agreed privately.
Septentrionalis 23:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Aldux alerted me. I wasn't intending to comment but I've now posted my view above.
Petrouchka 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'll just add that I voted to "support" only for consistency with current practice on Wikipedia. I strongly agree with Petrouchka on the wider issue.
Andrew Dalby 09:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Then I think you would have to establish wide enough consensus to alter WP:NAME. which holds that Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists. The general audience does not understand these hypercorrect forms; Hellenists should not need them. Septentrionalis 18:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'll just add that I voted to "support" only for consistency with current practice on Wikipedia. I strongly agree with Petrouchka on the wider issue.
Andrew Dalby 09:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Aldux alerted me. I wasn't intending to comment but I've now posted my view above.
Petrouchka 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The change in the assessment of Cypria, exhibited in Aristotle and then influenced by Aristotle's example, was a Hellenistic downgrading. I can't enter this in the article because it will be challenged as "original research" and I have no standard history of Greek literature here. Anyone interested in this point? The present passive of non-attribution makes no distinctions and contains little information. -- Wetman 19:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The newly expanded article reads very well to me. I just want to raise one minor problem: the detail in footnote 1 actually doesn't support any dating of the fixed text of Cypria as known in classical times -- because (as the article goes on to say, and as I would agree) the main stories were in all likelihood fixed (part of a Faktkanon maybe) earlier than the text. Thus the Judgement of Paris could quite well have been painted before the text as known in classical times was fixed. And rew D alby 16:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Note 1 is used to support the statement of the date the composition of Cypria is placed at. The link in this note is now broken. As it is a fairly important point, and also considering the fact that this note is repeated as a reference in the Literature section of Cyprus, could someone please update the link with a working one or replace the note with a proper literature citation? AstarothCY ( talk) 10:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I added the following caveat: "What follows embeds reports of known content of the Cypria in a retelling of the known events leading up to the anger of Achilles.".
A better approach would be to report the episodes that are actually known to have been in the Cypria. The fully-detailed lead-up to the Trojan War is reported elsewhere.-- Wetman ( talk) 17:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Start-Class Greek articles
- High-importance Greek articles
- WikiProject Greece general articles
- All WikiProject Greece pages
- Start-Class Classical Greece and Rome articles
- Mid-importance Classical Greece and Rome articles
- All WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome pages
- Start-Class Mythology articles
- High-importance Mythology articles
- Start-Class Poetry articles
- High-importance Poetry articles
- WikiProject Poetry articles